Craps Players Step Inside!

[Casino Player]

Casino Player....you can call "off" on your odds for pass & come bets at any time....your "flat" bet (original pass/come bet) is always working. Also on don't pass/don't come bets you can call "off" for BOTH "flat" & "laying odds" at any time although the D'ont/pass/lay odds D'ont/come/lay odds are in your favor after the number(s) have been established.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You could call off your odds for Pass Line/Come bets when you want to. However why have a bet where it is working all the time? I would rather have the ability to call off a bet. If it hits I don't win, but, and more likely if the shooter sevens out then I've saved some money.

Remember, in Craps, you don't want to give the House a big Mathimatical edge. You do then the House could destry you.

[Casino Player]

Hey Casino Player...do the math...buying a $100 5 or nine gives you the TRUE odds payoff of 3:2 for the $5 vig = Payoff $150 <less> $5 vig = net profit $145 vs place 9:5 odds $140 net profit. A wise gambler considers WON money HIS money & does not change his basic betting strategy because as you put it...he's playing with the houses money.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: A wise gambler first does not give the House a big edge. Then using money won from the House allows a gambler, if he wants more action, to have more action with weaker bets. As I have stated, "don't give the House a big edge."

You must also remember, if you are "a wise gambler," then you would also know that the House makes it's true killing when you are winning. You might be making money, but, the House makes it's true killing by not giving you true odds. The object of the game is to make bets that give the House the least edge by taking some of your odds. Remember, only true odds bets, made after a Pass Line/Come bet pay off at true odds. But, only "a wise gambler," knows that.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Casino Player

[LSTEFFA]

You are correct IF and ONLY IF you have to pay the vig only when you win, that is, pay after a win, not before the bet. I believe that very few casinos (if any) do this any more; now they collect the vig win or lose.

 

If that is the case, the math goes like this -- do a $100 place bet five times. In the long run, you will win twice and lose three times. Each win is a profit, as you point out, of $140, so in the end you wind up with 2 x (140 + 100) = $480 for your $500 action. Please note that 480/500 represents a 4.00% edge, which is the figure you'll see published.

 

Now, do five buy bets. You will win $150 on each, but must pay the $5 vig on all, win or lose. You wind up with 2x(150+100) - 5X5 = $475 total for your $500 action. Note that 475/500 is a 5.00% edge, as published. If you had to pay vig only after a win, you wind up with $490, which is a 2.00% edge.

 

This is why "conventional wisdom" says to only buy 4/10 and not the others.

I play @ a casino that charges the "vig" after the hit. I play a very aggressive BUY 4&10 as follows...Buy the 4&10 for $35...after it hits...pay the $1 vig...collect $105 ($35+$70 win)...press the buy to $100....hopefully after the second hit I use the $5 for the initial hit to pay the second vig. Can be very interesting if the outside numbers are hitting. Regarding buying a 5/9, my casino offers 20X odds so I will generally "PUT" a 5 and or nine for $105..flat bet $5-odds $100 for a total payoff of $155. I know a lot of people like to establish the come bet the normal route but I find by "putting" the bets you collect true odds (on the $100 odds-3:2) on the FIRST hit rather than wait for a repeater. If the shooter "passes" on let's say a six or eight and I have a number of put/come bets up, I will bet a "hopping big red'(7) to hedge my flat bets which are of course working. If the 7 shows coming out, I'll keep my put/come bets up from the proceeds but have the dealer change my put/come bets to place bets until a point is established at which time I change the place bets back to put/come bets. Very aggressive play which makes sense only in a 20X odds game.

[LSTEFFA]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You could call off your odds for Pass Line/Come bets when you want to. However why have a bet where it is working all the time? I would rather have the ability to call off a bet. If it hits I don't win, but, and more likely if the shooter sevens out then I've saved some money.

 

Remember, in Craps, you don't want to give the House a big Mathimatical edge. You do then the House could destry you.

I thought your place bets ARE working all the time (except on the come-out) unless you call them off...must be different at your casino. Certain players that call bets "on & off" constantly on a whim slow down the rythm of the game and drive the poor dealers crazy.

[LSTEFFA]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: A wise gambler first does not give the House a big edge. Then using money won from the House allows a gambler, if he wants more action, to have more action with weaker bets. As I have stated, "don't give the House a big edge."

 

You must also remember, if you are "a wise gambler," then you would also know that the House makes it's true killing when you are winning. You might be making money, but, the House makes it's true killing by not giving you true odds. The object of the game is to make bets that give the House the least edge by taking some of your odds. Remember, only true odds bets, made after a Pass Line/Come bet pay off at true odds. But, only "a wise gambler," knows that.

"House makes it's true killing when you (the player) are winning??? Tell that to the Borgata in Atlantic City May 2009 when the lady held the for 4 hours 10 minutes...25 passes....174 numbers. I bet the house thinks it wasn't making a "true killing"...LOL

[Jeffffffs]

Tell that to the Borgata in Atlantic City May 2009 when the lady held the for 4 hours 10 minutes...25 passes....174 numbers. I bet the house thinks it wasn't making a "true killing"...LOL

 

I heard from a dealer in AC that the total win on that roll was actually fairly modest (i forget the number, but tens of thousands, not hundreds)...so Borgata actually was pretty lucky. I like to think that my personal win would have exceded that if I was there.:rolleyes:

 

Also, I think the total number of rolls (including craps, etc) was in the 150's.

[LSTEFFA]

I heard from a dealer in AC that the total win on that roll was actually fairly modest (i forget the number, but tens of thousands, not hundreds)...so Borgata actually was pretty lucky. I like to think that my personal win would have exceded that if I was there.:rolleyes:

 

Also, I think the total number of rolls (including craps, etc) was in the 150's.

Jeff....Nextshooter.com details the shoot as....May 23, 2009...Borgata Casino Atlantic City......4 hour 18 minute roll.......154 rolls....25 pass line wins...estimated table win-$180,000. Wonder how many 4 or tens were rolled....?

[btyko]

Jeff....Nextshooter.com details the shoot as....May 23, 2009...Borgata Casino Atlantic City......4 hour 18 minute roll.......154 rolls....25 pass line wins...estimated table win-$180,000. Wonder how many 4 or tens were rolled....?

 

I wonder if she rolled sevens on the comeout. Since I am a come player, with odds working, that is what can kill me. Sometimes I win more money on a good roll than I win on what most consider a great roll.

[LSTEFFA]

I wonder if she rolled sevens on the comeout. Since I am a come player, with odds working, that is what can kill me. Sometimes I win more money on a good roll than I win on what most consider a great roll.

Btyko...suggestion on your come bets. After a point is made leave your odds off on the come out....bet a hopping big red (7)....if big red (7) shows up keep your come bets up (you only have to pay for the "flat" bet since the odds were off). Change your come bets to place bets on the next come out roll (seven does no damage to off-place bets). When a new point is established....change your place bets back into put/come bets and you are back in the heavy action.

[btyko]

Btyko...suggestion on your come bets. After a point is made leave your odds off on the come out....bet a hopping big red (7)....if big red (7) shows up keep your come bets up (you only have to pay for the "flat" bet since the odds were off). Change your come bets to place bets on the next come out roll (seven does no damage to off-place bets). When a new point is established....change your place bets back into put/come bets and you are back in the heavy action.

 

The comeout roll is the same as any other roll. Why should my odds be off? I don't call them off on the roll before, or the roll after.

 

A big red pays four to one, when the true odds against a seven are five to one. That is a stupid bet, on the comeout roll, or any other roll. I don't believe in backing up smart bets with stupid bets.

 

I can possibly see put bets if the casino allows 20x odds. I would have to give it some more thought, but since I've never played in a casino with more than 5x odds, I never had to deal with that.

[Yo Eleven]

The comeout roll is the same as any other roll. Why should my odds be off? I don't call them off on the roll before, or the roll after.

 

A big red pays four to one, when the true odds against a seven are five to one. That is a stupid bet, on the comeout roll, or any other roll. I don't believe in backing up smart bets with stupid bets.

 

I can possibly see put bets if the casino allows 20x odds. I would have to give it some more thought, but since I've never played in a casino with more than 5x odds, I never had to deal with that.

Any seven is indeed a stupid bet.

 

That is why I like hopping the sevens. Much better.

 

I am hoping on my cruise they allow hop bets.

[LSTEFFA]

Any seven is indeed a stupid bet.

 

That is why I like hopping the sevens. Much better.

 

I am hoping on my cruise they allow hop bets.

Yo Eleven...RCCL allows hop bets per recent Alaska cruise.

[LSTEFFA]

The comeout roll is the same as any other roll. Why should my odds be off? I don't call them off on the roll before, or the roll after.

 

A big red pays four to one, when the true odds against a seven are five to one. That is a stupid bet, on the comeout roll, or any other roll. I don't believe in backing up smart bets with stupid bets.

 

I can possibly see put bets if the casino allows 20x odds. I would have to give it some more thought, but since I've never played in a casino with more than 5x odds, I never had to deal with that.

Just seems like during a real "monster" roll sevens always show up on the come out. Agreed Big Red on a "straight" bet is lousy....I bet a three way $6 Big Red hop bet (15:1 = $30 Less $4 = $26 net profit) to hedge my come bets and leave bets up. Good luck and may the "monster" show.

Edited September 4, 2009 by LSTEFFA

[Casino Player]

Casino Player....you can call "off" on your odds for pass & come bets at any time....your "flat" bet (original pass/come bet) is always working. Also on don't pass/don't come bets you can call "off" for BOTH "flat" & "laying odds" at any time although the D'ont/pass/lay odds D'ont/come/lay odds are in your favor after the number(s) have been established.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: Tell me something I don't know. You go over things I already know.

[Casino Player]

"House makes it's true killing when you (the player) are winning??? Tell that to the Borgata in Atlantic City May 2009 when the lady held the for 4 hours 10 minutes...25 passes....174 numbers. I bet the house thinks it wasn't making a "true killing"...LOL

 

HHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: Of course the House makes it's true killing when you are winning. Any player with experience knows that. Don't you know that the Pass Line and Come bets only pay even money not true odds. The Odds bet on those bets are the only time the House pays true odds. However, most players make bets that aren't real smart. For example, take the Hard Ways. There is one way to make a hard way. If you roll a seven of course you lose, but, if the shooter makes the four, six, eight, or ten the easy way, any other way to get to the number you bet the hard way, you lose your bet. So for a four or ten there is one way to win and two ways to lose. Also on the six or eight there is only one way to win and and four ways to lose without rolling seven. Advantage House. Also, the House does not pay true odds on any Prop Bet. This gives the House a big advantage. The big odds that someone like you would look at are not true odds. The House keeps some of that.

At the Borgota when that lady had that super roll the House knew they would make a killing.

[Casino Player]

Just seems like during a real "monster" roll sevens always show up on the come out. Agreed Big Red on a "straight" bet is lousy....I bet a three way $6 Big Red hop bet (15:1 = $30 Less $4 = $26 net profit) to hedge my come bets and leave bets up. Good luck and may the "monster" show.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You make a hop bet. Ha, ha, ha. Don't you know LSTEFFA that the House pays 29 to 1 on a hop bet, but, the real odds are 35 to 1. Yes, the House makes their true killing when you win. And might I add you are a real intelligent bettor making a bet like that so if it hits you don't get the true payout. If he doesn't hit then you lose your entire bet. That is a really smart bet. lol

[Lisa&Neb]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You make a hop bet. Ha, ha, ha. Don't you know LSTEFFA that the House pays 29 to 1 on a hop bet, but, the real odds are 35 to 1. Yes, the House makes their true killing when you win. And might I add you are a real intelligent bettor making a bet like that so if it hits you don't get the true payout. If he doesn't hit then you lose your entire bet. That is a really smart bet. lol

 

I agree hop bets have a high house edge, but they have a lower house edge then the normal big red. the hop is in units of 3 to the math is...

 

Big red - $3 bet to pay 12 ($15 off the table)

Hop - $3 bet pays 15 ($16 off the table)

[LSTEFFA]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You make a hop bet. Ha, ha, ha. Don't you know LSTEFFA that the House pays 29 to 1 on a hop bet, but, the real odds are 35 to 1. Yes, the House makes their true killing when you win. And might I add you are a real intelligent bettor making a bet like that so if it hits you don't get the true payout. If he doesn't hit then you lose your entire bet. That is a really smart bet. lol

Casino Player...I suggest you take your shoes & socks off & re-do your math.I will bet a three way hopping Big Red (seven) which pays 15 FOR 1 not 29 TO 1 as you state. This is my only proposition (BAD) bet that I will make and I use it to hedge my come (Flat) bets which are always working on the come-out roll. Regarding your quote "the house makes their true killing when you win" ...???...your logic continues to baffle me.

[LSTEFFA]

I agree hop bets have a high house edge, but they have a lower house edge then the normal big red. the hop is in units of 3 to the math is...

 

Big red - $3 bet to pay 12 ($15 off the table)

Hop - $3 bet pays 15 ($16 off the table)

Lisa & Bob... The $3 hop bet would pay 15 FOR ONE-$15...you would be paid $13 ($15 - $2) and still have the HOP bet working on the next roll. If you take your bet down after one hit "its $16 and DOWN". Lousy odds but used as a hedge against come "flat" bets. Good luck...

[Yo Eleven]

Well guys and dolls, I am hitting the Carribbean for some rest and relaxation and excitement at the craps table. Wish me luck! :D

[AndyTheK]

B'hatzlaha - that's how we say in Hebrew. Have a great time, and see you when you get back!

[hcappa]

I'll be cruising tomorrow and I've always wanted to try Craps but I have no idea how to play. It looks like people have a lot fun playing and I'd like to get in on that kind of fun. Can someone please direct me to short website turtorial. Or better yet, does anyone have a "Craps 101" manual for me?...lol....Help!

 

Thank you

Harry

[cruzincurt]

Go to the teaching session that usually happens before the casino opens that first night. They will show you the basics. Put $5 on the PASS LINE and you're playing.

 

One observation is that we are having "fun" when we are winning; remember is still gambling with the house having the edge on almost all bets.

 

Try wizardofodds dot com

Edited September 12, 2009 by cruzincurt

[jester121]

I'll be cruising tomorrow and I've always wanted to try Craps but I have no idea how to play. It looks like people have a lot fun playing and I'd like to get in on that kind of fun. Can someone please direct me to short website turtorial. Or better yet, does anyone have a "Craps 101" manual for me?...lol....Help!

 

Harry, I recommend this Youtube video, actually this is the first in a series of 8 free vids. Go through them in sequence and you'll know as much as about 85% of the people around the table.

 

 

Also I suggest playing with "free" practice money at an online casino website like bodog.com (there are others but some require you to create an account or download software, that one doesn't). You get $1000 "play" money and can try what you learned in the video!

Edited September 12, 2009 by jester121

[hcappa]

Thanks for the info. I'll check out the website and the video.

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Harry

 

p.s. I'll let you know how I made out...after I get back!