Loreni

So the ship's doctor was on TV (on the ship, I assume) telling people he doesn't know that they may need to adjust their blood pressure medication because Princess (the company he works for) is putting too much salt in their food? That sounds bizarre to me.

Yes. What is more bizarre is that Princess would use so much salt that the doctor would feel the need to give this message. If this behavior seems at odds with his employer, perhaps he feels his first obligation is the health of those onboard, especially on a month long cruise which this was.

Again, people are getting the flu onboard and it is a significant enough issue that Princess now provides a letter warning about it. On our last cruise, Princess actually posted a large sign at the entrance of the Captain's cocktail party asking people not to shake hands.

For those who do get sick onboard, and there are many, I encourage you to consider why it is happening. And if you have a way to monitor your sleep quality, consider doing so.

Maybe it was the salt.

Well, it was not the salt on the last two cruises because we now request low sodium food.

Not every passenger gets the flu. If you do not, great for you. Sadly many people do. Princess knows this. That is why there is a letter in the room from the doctor. Only a few years ago this letter only mentioned Noro. Now it mentions both Noro and influenza. Why?

For the OP and the many other passengers who find themselves getting respiratory infections, before you blame the airlines, consider the quality of sleep you may be getting on the ship.

Okay, this I don't follow at all. Did the doctor on TV tell you you were eating too much salt and therefore waking you up? I guess I missed that on the last Princess TV I saw.

 

Also, if cruising makes you sick 7 out of 8 times, maybe you shouldn't cruise.

The doctor on TV was not talking directly to me. The doctor mentioned that people might need their blood pressure medication adjusted because of the high sodium in the food. We never salt our food at home. So it occurred to me that rather than have our medication adjusted, we should just ask for low sodium food. Easy. And frankly it taste better to me. And we no longer were getting up 3 or 4 times a night to urinate.

And yes I think we may need to stop cruising. We tried to debug the problem first. Mattress pads and low sodium food are easy fixes. Sadly, I don't see an easy fix for hot rooms. Maybe we will have to only cruise Alaska.

I don't believe air travel is the problem for us. We drive to the port about half the time. Anyway we both fly for work and for other leisure travel and rarely get sick. But we nearly always get sick cruising. We are very close to quitting. It isn't even close to worth it whe these infections last over a month.

I think we just don't sleep as well on the ship and this weakens the immune system. Sadly, Princess does not allow us to cool the room at night as much as we would like. We have never resorted to sleeping with the balcony door open. I wonder if bringing a fan is an option.

It has happened 7 out of our last 8 cruises. Once, the ship's doctor prescribed antibiotics...she thought it was bacterial. Yet the letter from the fleet doctor warns of influenza which is viral. Either way, it is nasty and lasts for over a month. DH gets it about half as often as I do.

We both travel by air for work and non-cruise leisure and very rarely get sick. So the airport or airplane is probably not the problem. What is different about cruising?

We don't sleep as well on the ship. Even one bad night compromises the immune system. We had known we were not sleeping as well on the ship as at home, or even in hotels, for some time and had tried to fix the problem.

First, we bring our own mattress topper. I have never stayed in any hotel where the mattresses were as substandard as on a Princess ship.

Second, after watching the ship's doctor on TV on embarkation day, we realized the very high level of salt in the food was causing us to awaken repeatedly to use the bathroom. Easy fix...we requested low sodium meals. But why so much salt, especially with so may older people with high blood pressure? To make us drink more?

The final thing that is wrecking our sleep is not an easy fix and we may need to give up cruising. The room is too hot. At home, we keep the room in the 60s for sleeping. This is what doctors recommend and it works for us. Same in hotels. But Princess will claim the air conditioning is working even when it is in the 70s at night. It is worse than that, we discovered that the air conditioning turns off when the lights turn off. So we tried leaving the lights on and using sleep masks. The air conditioning still turned off around 3:30 am. We know because we awakened covered in sweat. My hair was wet. DH doesn't have hair, he still woke up sweltering. Princess would not fix the air conditioning, they claim it is fine.

Finally, we can quantify the problem because we wear watches that estimate how much deep sleep we get. At home it is around 70 percent. On our last cruise, it was in the 30s, about half as much deep sleep as at home or in hotels. Deep sleep is when the immune system repairs itself.

How much money does Princess save by reducing the air conditioning? Have they no regard for the comfort or health of their passengers? If we bring a fan and extension cord will either be confiscated? Should I need to work this hard for a good night's sleep?

For those of you who are getting respiratory infections, try checking how much deep sleep you get on the ship vs home. Many people have watches that can estimate this now. The watches may not be that accurate, but they do measure something. It could be very eye opening for you...it was for us.

I'll see if this posts OK. A video I took at 10.30am on a port day on Reflection last month. The idea of a quiet time by the pool whilst the ship was relatively empty, not going to happen.

 

Thank you for this example. After hearing this, we won't be sailing Celebrity. I wouldn't be able to relax or read or think. And this is piped throughout the ship? Most people have iPods, why not let people select the music they want to hear (if any).

This music might be OK for me at a certain time or in a certain venue, but not if I can't escape it without essentially confining myself to my cabin. Celebrity probably doesn't want my business anyway being that I'm in my 50s.

I think that the real purpose of this music is to drive away older passengers, so...why go where you are not wanted? I believe Celebrity is signaling that certain people are not welcome (for whatever reason), and we all have plenty of other options. (I will never complain about Frank Sinatra on Princess again.)

And now I'm discouraged again. *sigh*

 

Carnival - Too much of a party, not enough quality service

 

NCL - Used to be our favorite line. Quality down, nickel and dime factor up. Del Rio stinks!!!!

 

RCL - Haven't tried yet, but they seem awfully expensive for the same types of cruises. I'm toying with the idea, but not really excited with the idea.

 

Princess- Loved them if it weren't so old feeling......I was hoping it was just the Panama.....

 

Holland America - I won't even consider trying, I already know that it is the really old crowd.

 

It doesn't help that we would all like a 10 day cruise either. Ds has enough vacation time now that he can do them, and he REALLY liked the longer cruise. Between decompressing from work and gearing up to go back, 7 days just doesn't quite cut it anymore.

 

I feel lost. Surely there are cruise lines that have quality and still want a younger demographic. I had hoped Princess was that line.

Long-time Celebrity cruisers have been complaining about the music on Celebrity for years. They think it's rap, but apparently it's "house music." I'm not sure that we would like too much if that either, but after so much depressing Frank Sinatra on Princess, I'm willing to give it a try. I wish a nice mix of music would be provided on both Princess and Celebrity.

I am in my 50s and DH is over 60. We find the music on Princess to be very dreary. The most current song (and uptempo) I heard on our last cruise was Billy Joel's I May Be Crazy. Most of the music was from much earlier periods. Not only that, but but the selections made from these eras are almost always slow tempo. Slow tempo is easier for the musician, but so dreary. And often the lyrics are depressing.

For example, I have never been on a Princess cruise where Frank Sinatra's My Way has not been played. On our last cruise we heard it twice on the same evening! Do older people really enjoy contemplating the final curtain?

I wonder if Princess provides the entertainers with a list of acceptable music. On a New Year's cruise they played Brown Eyed Girl just before the balloon drop. I watched a YouTube from a few years earlier and the same song was played right before ballon drop. It may be that the entertainers are not allowed to deviate from the script, regardless of the onboard demographic. But, the script should be periodically updated, I would think.

Don't get me started on the other songs we "enjoyed," such as Mr BoJangles and Mac the Knife.

We don't cruise Princess for the entertainment, that's for sure.

Yes, that is a compromise and it is a step in the right direction.

However, I have a cousin that smokes the vapor cigs and unfortunately it does leave an odor. I suppose if the cabin stewards do a good job cleaning cabins, it might not be a problem to be in a cabin occupied by a vapor smoker, but it still raises a question.

I don't know anyone who smokes or vapes, but I thought vaping just left water vapor behind. I did walk beside someone vaping once and didn't smell anything. If it leaves nicotine behind, that could be a problem. But it isn't actually burning anything. Anyway, I have little firsthand experience with this, maybe it was too good to true.

Now that HAL has banned balcony smoking, we are considering them. We have been looking at other cruise lines as well. The main reason is Princess' decision to replace the balcony furniture with uncomfortable furniture.

If we cruise Princess, we will now book OV or insides. This has been fine and a good bargain, but sometimes we do miss the balcony. HAL appears to have nice balcony furniture and we are being tempted.

Still we have just earned our black card on Princess and DH wants to sail with them at least once with this status which we will do in a few weeks. We are very familiar with the Princess product and we like it overall. We are unsure about HAL.

Some other possible benefits of HAL are the itineraries both short and long:

- Bermuda with three nights in Hamilton

- halfmoon key is said to be nicer than Princess key

- round trip CA to Tahiti with more stops than Princess similar itinerary

- round trip Ft. Lauderdale to Europe

- round trip from Miami around South America.

- round trip to Japan from CA, I believe

Yet, I assume there may be some downsides as well. What do you think, say, for a Caribbean cruise: Inside/OV on Princess or Balcony on HAL.

So if I interpret the new policy correctly - on the Vista class ships the ONLY smoking areas will now be the Seaview bar, and the Casino until the ships go through their revamps adding Billboard onboard, at which time the Casino then becomes non smoking, leaving the Seaview bar as the ONLY smoking area on the entire ship?

 

Is smoking no longer allowed on any portion of the Promenade deck or other open deck areas?

I hope it it not allowed on the promenade deck. This is a perfect place to walk laps and exercise...activities that are totally inconsistent with being exposed to secondhand smoke. Princess has a nice aft area for smoking. Unfortunately, they also allow it on half the promenad...never understood this.

There are many, many other options available. HAL has chosen to be smoker friendly. That's their choice. Seems that may not be working out so well for them if they're thinking of changing. Will take a wait and see attitude.

 

Well, some would say they are no longer smoker friendly.

I don't agree. I think they are really trying to compromise.

I don't have a problem with them allowing vaping in the cabin. It seems like a pretty good compromise from a company that is trying to inclusive rather than divisive. I don't really care that much about the casino smoke since we don't gamble...as long as it doesn't waft too far outside the casino.

One thing puzzles me about the timing. Seabourn made this change in Late July, and I really expected HAL to make their announcement by mid-August. The wheels must have been turning by then.

 

Roy

I also find the timing very interesting. It seems like they rushed the information out even before updating their website. I actually learned about in the Celebrity board.

The only Skift article I can find that mentions "distruptive" says "Giorgi said he doesn’t see any upheaval in store for the cruise industry that would be comparable to Airbnb’s effect on hotels or Uber’s impact on taxis."

 

https://skift.com/2016/04/05/celebrity-cruises-is-turning-to-airbnb-for-a-cmo/

 

Did we read the same article? It's six months old and I haven't seen any disruption.

Yes. This is the exact article. I encourage everyone to read it very carefully.

It is open to a number of interpretations, one of which is that Celebrity is not very content with their current demographic. This would be consistent with prior ad campaigns and the loud music. I also think management may be annoyed by passengers who cancel over concerns about Zika or terrorism. They would probably like to attract a more intrepid passenger. People tend to become more risk averse with age.

Nothing wrong with having a target market. I just want to feel comfortable that I am part of this target market, but I'm not so sure. If the loud music hasn't been sufficient to bring about the desired demographic shift, what's next?

HAL has the best itineraries and the promenad decks of its older ships look wonderful. Yet we had never set foot on one and never would have had this policy not changed.

We had strongly considered Celebrity because of their smoking policy, but for years we had been concerned that they were deliberately creating a hostile onboard atmosphere for older cruisers with very loud and thumping music. Reports are that bands are not allowed to play classic rock even on transatlantic cruises that have a much older demographic. Additionally, passengers were told the volume could not be lowered because Miami won't let them.

It is had to believe that Celebrity would so deliberately target a particular demographic as unwelcome. I am glad we now have another option with HAL.

I just read about the change in the smoking policy and HAL has some nice itineraries that I will now take the time to peruse more thoroughly. The balcony issue and smoking was the only reason I had not moved forward with a booking.

 

You may lose a few smokers but will now gain other new potential passengers.

 

Thank you HAL

I agree. The HAL smoking policy was an absolute deal breaker for us. Just last week DH was saying what a shame it was that HAL had such great itineraries, but we couldn' sail them. We are Princess cruisers and had considered Celebrity because of its smoking policy. Unfortunately, it appears Celebrity is trying to create a hostile atmosphere for older cruisers with their music volume (and perhaps for other types of cruisers as well).

I remember a few years back there was a failed marketing campaign, "X the Rules." I believe the intention was to be edgy and attract younger cruisers. The result was that many thought the slogan was vulgar and that "X," in this case, was intended to suggest a four letter word.

I doubt the overall goal of attracting younger cruisers has diminished. Perhaps it has actually intensified, but now different approaches will be used. I just hope the onboard atmosphere is inclusive of a diversity of passenger ages and that all would feel equally welcome.

DH and I are Princess cruisers but we are looking for alternatives so that we have more options. Until yesterday, HAL was not an option due to smoking policy. Also, we are maybe a bit young for HAL.

Yet, I wonder if we are too old for Celebrity, based on their new marketing direction. I have read that on transatlantic sailings, where most passengers are retirement age or older, the bands are not allowed to play classic rock. Also, there is loud thumping music and they say Miami will not allow them to lower the volume.

Now, I have found a Skift article about how Celebrity marketing seeks to be disruptive to the cruise industry (although not as disruptive as Airbnb has been to hotels). Also, they want more friction or at least tension in how they attract consumers. Will this spill into the onboard atmosphere?

We don't vacation for friction, tension, or disruption. I know being blasted with loud music would provide all those things for me. I wonder if more changes are in store to make Celebrity less attractive to older cruisers.

P.S. We like the idea of Evening Chic.

The PDF file lists two ships where smoking is not allowed in casinos, ms Oosterdam and ms Eurodam that have smoke-free casinos.

This is excellent news. DH and I have been considering Celebrity for a long time, but we're concerned about the thumping music. Celebrity has clearly been trying to shed older cruisers for years. I'm not sure that we are the age demographic Celebrity wants and I'd hate to feel unwelcome.

Meanwhile HAL offers some really nice itineraries, but the smoking policy was always a deal breaker. Now, it appears HAL is trying to be more inclusive and reach out to a broad diverse demographic at the same time Celebrity appears to be targeting a younger more narrow demographic.

We are Princess cruisers, but want to add another line so we have more options.

It's back now.

I had been following the comments about the new ad campaign, but I can't find it anymore.

Absolutely not but to make other people wait 10 or 15 minutes until your enjoy a sunset seems over the top whether it's TD or AT.

Who would be waiting for them? I assume they will have a table for two.

I have noticed that on longer cruises, longer than 10 days, that a very high percentage of the passengers come down with upper respiratory illness by the time the cruises end.

 

Does not matter which cruise line, or even where the cruise is. The combination of a large number of passengers (from different parts of the world), in the closed environment of a cruise ship means rapid spread of cold like illness. Starting to look like if one wants to do long cruise they need to plan on catching something a good percentage of the time.

 

Over the past two years I have been on for 17 days, 20 days, 31 days, 14 days, 17 days and 12 days on three different cruise lines. On all of them I have noticed that early in the cruise only a small percentage are coughing, but as the cruise goes on the numbers increase, and by the end a pretty high percentage seem affected. I have caught something about 2/3's on the cruises. I have taken similar length lands tours and river cruises and have never come home ill. I hardly ever catch anything at home, only on longer cruises.

 

What are your experiences?

I usually get influenza on longer cruises. I noticed when we began sailing Princess, the welcome letter from the ship's Doctor only mentioned Noro...now it mentions both Noro and influenza. Additionally, I sought medical treatment onboard the last time it happened and the ship's Doctor told me it tends to happen on longer cruises. So yes, I think it is a real issue. I have a one week cruise coming up and we'll see what happens. Of course on such a short cruise it is easy to blame the plane.

It is getting to the point that we are considering other forms of travel. In the meantime I intend to skip the main theater (no loss, I usually skip it anyway), try to avoid elevators, and, as others have suggested, wear a mask.

DH needs a special diet and we always have anytime dining on the Princess ships that offer it (not on Pacific). Sometimes we have the same table and waiters at a set time; however, this was not allowed on our last cruise. Either way, we had no problem with his diet being accommodated.

We always go to dinner after watching the sunset. However, in Alaska that could be a bit late. Since we usually get a table for two, dinner doesn't usually take longer than we want it to, say 90 mins.

I was researching both Azamara and Oceania for cruises with unique itineraries.

 

What I didn't like was the small size of the cabins on the R ships.

On Oceania it seems like it's difficult to get a table for two, especially in the specialty restaurants.

You have to get the beverage package, otherwise drinks are very expensive, very small (there was a post last week mentioning a one ounce pour for wine.

 

The ships look nice and updated, but there's not much you can do with those low ceilings.

 

While we don't need to be constantly entertained, for the price you pay on O, I think they can do better. The common comment from their board is "Oceania guests are capable of entertaining themselves."

Getting a table for two is important to us, if we can't get this, we won't sail Oceania.

We don't really drink alcohol...maybe once or twice a year. So this is a not an issue. Anyway, we skip most of the entertainment on Princess...actually, I would pay NOT to have to watch much of it, so quiet nights are OK. I thought the cabins on Pacific Princess were a good size.