notamermaid

Not too worry, the website looks interesting and accurate I would say. Elwis has just a different and more detailed way of showing it, i.e. it shows a range and probability chart as well as the standard forecast table. Thanks for mentioning that site. notamermaid

A bit of statistics following my comment in post #369 about the long low water period at Kaub. According to contargo.net in 2016 there were 23 days with figures lower than 80cm. In 2018, I have counted the days shown in the historical files (a different website). There were 113 days with a level of 80cm or lower! In 2020, the same website shows only one day. In 2022, according to contargo.net, there were 43 days with a level of 80cm or longer. And in that year of the bad flooding, 2013? The level did not fall below 100cm for a single day. notamermaid

Not sure where you looked. From what I can see on the long range forecast on "Elwis", the probability for 80cm is there but very low, i.e. the level is most likely to stay between 88cm and 91cm on the 24th. From the 27th the situation looks to improve well. notamermaid

You are right, Kaub is not a river cruise port as such. It is a small place that does have an excursion boat landing stage that is suitable for river cruise ships I think. Kaub gauge is the marker for the shipping industry meaning it gives the river traffic the info how deep the navigation channel is in that area of the Rhine (there is a calculation that refers to another gauge but that is beside the point for our purposes here). On the "pegel online" map it looks like this: The area has the shallowest navigation channel of the Rhine. I need to clarify that the Rhine Gorge is not that shallow in its whole stretch and the shallow channel actually starts before Rüdesheim. Sorry, I was not precise enough. At Mainz it is 210cm, at Kaub it is 190cm, at Koblenz it is 210cm. That is the basis for the calculation for river traffic. notamermaid

Oh good. 🙂 I find the website relatively straight forward with all the icons making it somewhat easier when one does not speak German much. If one can bear all the adds about loosing tummy fat, etc. (not sure what you get in the US with your cookies). 😉 notamermaid

Pfelling gauge at 265cm. In other news: the Danube water has warmed up a lot. When this happens for a long period it puts a strain on fish. For now, the problem that has arisen is at the nuclear power plants in Budapest. The water is too warm for cooling the plant so electricity generation has been reduced. notamermaid

Yes, all in all this works from what we have read on CC in the past. I remember the odd case when people worried about not being able to get a notification as they would be on a week long land trip before the cruise. But that is not a typical scenario of course. I would say that in this day and age of technology it is very wise to keep an eye on what may happen at the embarkation port and have the ship's phone number ready at all times if one has not arranged a transfer to the ship with the river cruise company - or indeed the river cruise company contact number. Easy to do. Forgot to mention in the previous post that if you do the Amsterdam to Budapest itinerary you may have to go through the ship swap twice, the Danube one involves Straubing and Vilshofen, or Regensburg and Passau or a different combination of the towns on either side of the shallow stretch in which is the Pfelling gauge. Kaub gauge at 109cm. notamermaid

Found the webpage again - "squat" and all the other terms: https://www.viadonau.org/en/economy/online-services/calculation-of-the-draught-loaded/ notamermaid

Just a brief addition to the topic of ship swaps for those new to this. Standard swap is normally Rüdesheim and Koblenz, meaning the ships remain in those ports for the hours needed to complete the swap. The section of river between those two is basically the Rhine Gorge. It is considered the most scenic part of the river. This area during a ship swap you will either see from a coach or on an excursion boat hired or part-hired (then you share with other tourists) by your cruise company. notamermaid

Viva Cruises new ship named "Viva Enjoy" will come in September 2024: https://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Viva-Cruises-introduce-Enjoy-September-2024?ct=river notamermaid

Not sure that it matters to people, some will adjust faster than others, should not be a big deal. I admit it is not the best example. Ships sailing that are meant to swap if the need arises are almost identical when looking at the Viking fleet - fun quote on CC is "all that differs is the painting in the lobby" - and most likely very similar if not almost identical with other companies' fleets. You will of course deal with a different captain and his (maritime) crew but as you do not know the employees on your original ship this should not matter to you either. Unless you are unlucky or unhappy with something and start wondering what could have been... notamermaid

Welcome to Cruisecritic. What a pity. I hope you will have a great time this autumn. The floods of 2013 were worse on the Danube and Elbe than on the Rhine. Still, it was bad enough here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_European_floods Around Maxau river traffic was halted for several days. At Kaub subsequently for a similar length of time. notamermaid

I would have a look at https://www.wetteronline.de/ Go to "Vorhersage". Or type in a major town in the search field at the top. The four day forecast is fairly reliable, eight day is also usually okay. The forecast - computer modelling - for Maxau gauge (at Karlsruhe) suggests a reaction to rain but only in so far as that the Upper Rhine valley should be able to retain the level. If no rain was predicted the level would fall. notamermaid

Riviera Travel will be offering itineraries on a new ship on the Douro next year: https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/tourism/riviera-travel-deploys-new-ship-on-douro notamermaid

I agree. It works really well, most of the time, but also seeing that in a ship swap you normally miss the scenic sailing of the Rhine Gorge, it does impact the cruise. A passenger should always be informed about that possibility in my opinion. And reimbursed for it. What I object to is making the ship swap so long that it cuts out cruising a lot, meaning ports can only be reached by coach, i.e. going to Koblenz, using a coach, getting on the other ship at Rüdesheim I find acceptable as long as the passenger knows of this potential situation before he embarks. Going from Worms to Rüdesheim, returning, going to Cologne by coach the next day to swap to the ship, is not my idea of a cruise. This is what has been done by Viking - it may have been done by others since that awful autumn in 2018 - but in that year when things came to a standstill river cruises were actually cancelled. Personally, I do not like to think back to that year. Apart from seeing "my" river decline dramatically (shocking somewhat), I answered so many question of river cruisers that felt uninformed, bewildered, often completely oblivious to such a scenario being possible and left in the dark (in their opinion) by the cruise company. Not fun. In my opinion, information policy has really improved since then. And more travel websites are mentioning the topic when it arises. People are more aware. I do not like the alarmist headlines one can read occasionally but it certainly appears that people prefer to be informed beforehand rather than meet the problem when it arises, i.e. when they get to the ship in Amsterdam and realize it is a different one as the previous passengers did a ship swap (or similar scenario). That is the impression I got in 2018 and it has remained so since. notamermaid

That is lovely to read. Sounds like there may be another river cruise for you in the future. Cruising around Deutsches Eck is great, I agree. I only know daytime, would love to see it at sunrise. notamermaid

I would not call the 90cm a crucial figure for sailing or not sailing. From what we have experienced over the last few years we can see this number as one that may see - or soon see - adjustments in docking locations, slower sailing, meaning something river cruisers "can live with" but it is a figure to watch and one may prefer to not see a further decline. All in all I would say decisions for or against sailing are made closer to the 70cm than the 90cm. Ships can sail below 70cm, other companies tend to sail with their 135m ships when the figures are just that bit lower than Viking but, again, it is the decision of each captain - or in more and more situations the choice of the captains on the corresponding ships that prepare for the swap. 70cm is not the figure at which 135m ships stop sailing automatically. The ship swap is quite honestly a great idea in my opinion and now usually works very smoothly. It may happen at 68cm, or 66cm, or 64cm... It tends to be just the Rhine Gorge that needs "bridging" but it can be more. 2018 was an abysmal year and if you want to subject yourself to that type of drama the thread for 2018 is a fascinating read. But, you have been warned... The title of the thread is the same as this one, just exchange the year. notamermaid

Okay, change in the weather pattern and substantially adjusted forecast for Kaub - including long term forecast. We see a bigger drop than was anticipated three days ago. No need to panic but I need to be honest in that the level will most likely fall below 100cm on Saturday with Sunday or Monday showing the lowest level (which may or may not be around 90cm). Tuesday may see the beginning of a rise. notamermaid

Thanks. That reminds me, I saw that explained in a great drawing, i.e. of a ship set in water and what the physics are, some time ago. So, all the parametres worked for the Spirit of the Danube. She successfully completed the passage from Straubing to Passau during the night! Great news, and confirmation that modern 135m river cruise ships - at least this one - can sail past Pfelling at a figure of 268cm. Again, it is an individual decision and it does not mean that a similar ship or even the Spirit of the Danube will do the upstream passage at that figure. Pfelling at 266cm. notamermaid

Right, we have established that things are looking promising for your departure date. But you asked two interesting questions. I admit they are proving a challenge for this amateur girl so I hope I can get close to answering them. A drop in a week can be huge. As I have mentioned in a previous post, the drop tends to be bigger overall when the figures are higher, i.e. the water level is high, which is roughly seasonal of course - this is a generalization, not a gospel. If I say a drop of 100cm is possible that may cause an unnecessary concern, seeing that you are wondering about a cruise in a relative low water situation. If we look at a past month when we were at this kind of level it looked like this, as an example. This is Kaub in August 2020: As regards the longest stretch of days without a rise: there is always a bit of fluctuation and a small rise can occur from day to day, but if we look at this from the perspective of river cruising and choose figures that are below 80cm at Kaub for a long time then 2018 is probably the worst year overall and there I have counted the days in the table, not all of them just the longest stretch in that year of consecutive days under 80cm. Get the brandy ready and sit down... It ran from end of September until beginning of December - 67 days. notamermaid

Thanks for bringing up the topic of dates. I think this looks right. Some can be open before 30 November but if one does not feel like researching every single port that time frame is a good one to go for. notamermaid

On the other side of the Pfelling gauge I happened to spot the "Spirit of the Danube" when preparing the screenshot above. She is at Straubing. What makes it highly interesting is the fact that she is 135m long. Will she sail through the shallow stretch past the lock at Straubing and onto Vilshofen? Again, one can track that ship to find out. Not all 135m ships are the same so it will vary in what the respective captain judges to be the safe figure for passage past Pfelling. notamermaid

Brief answer for the time being: Not the only one, but the "worst" one. Yes, some ships can manage. Barges, tankers at reduced load. Smaller river cruise ships. Try using a tracker. marinetraffic.com, via the search field find the Amadeus Princess. That is this one, info from company website: https://www.amadeus-rivercruises.com/our-amadeus-fleet/detail/amadeus-princess.html When the ship info pops up on marinetraffic, go on past track. You can always see a 24 hour track (if the signal is strong enough). She is currently in the shallow section upstream from Deggendorf, sailing towards Bogen (where the Pfelling gauge is located): When she has made it past Straubing she will have successfully completed the journey through the shallow section. notamermaid

Sorry, that should read Diemel. It is a tributary of the Weser. notamermaid

Before I get to back to historic water levels - question posted by MamaMags123 - here is the Niedrigwasserbericht of the authorities. This is an elaborate report, regularly updated every week if necessary, to describe the low water situation in Germany. Basically it says in its 2nd update that although there has been rain the rivers are too low for the season overall and the weather this week will not bring any real change to the situation. It also notes that the rivers are warmer than is normal at this time of year. Just ignore all the text if you are not familiar with German, but have a look at the photo: https://www.bafg.de/DE/07_Nachrichten/230713_nw-bericht.pdf?__blob=publicationFile This is the mouth of the Moselle at Koblenz, looking upstream at the dam and wall of the lock. The river flows freely on this short stretch towards the Rhine of course so the two rivers react here and the Moselle is low when the Rhine is very low. This can be tricky for docking at Koblenz on the Moselle side. As far as I know in the current conditions this is still fine. This Google maps section should help to illustrate: You can see the ships docked at Peter-Altmeier-Ufer. At the dam/weir is an information centre on river fauna, called Mosellum Erlebniswelt. notamermaid