MrMike45

2 minutes ago, vince_g said:

It must have been $30 then, because the price with gratuity was $36.

 

$36 is still high, yes.  But the OP said $46.80, which I think makes it the 2nd most expensive restaurant on NCL after Ocean Blue right? 

Edit...sorry just realized you are the OP lol.  That is a pretty big increase, nearly 25% jump 

1 hour ago, vince_g said:

David, it is true, but VERY recent.  I just saw it this morning on "my NCL".

 

Yes, they were pushing it at $29 +20%.  Lately we are sticking with our 2 platinum dinners, and that is enough for us.  We started to dislike all the reservations we needed to keep, and felt like we possibly eating more than we needed to.  

Isn't $29 + 20% = 34.80...not 46.80?  $12 difference

1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I agree with you but think that the OP will get all the perks.

 

 

I hope so.  Otherwise, I think the OP got screwed on this deal 

Maybe I am missing something...but if you get none of the perks at all of being in Yacht Club...how is going from a balcony room to an inside room (with nothing else added on) an upgrade?  Let alone paying $500 for the move?  I would think the balcony room is better if everything else remains the same no? 

Despite any minor complaints, in 17 cruises, we have never had a bad one (although we did catch noro once which kinda sucked).  It is still the best option for a vacation IMO, and an amazing time 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, so this will be the last post by me on the topic.  

First, I apologize for any part I played in the silly argument/cursing with Elmwood and hope he didn't get banned.  

As for the debate, for me at least (and i believe for others as well), it is not what the Haven is getting for their significantly more expensive suites.  The bigger issue is what is being taken away from the majority of passengers.  I have no issue with people who buy Haven cabins getting extra.  And I have no issue with the Vibe being expanded somewhat since it does always sell out.  And I have no issue with NCL installing some new activities like Go Karts or Laser Tag.  

I have an issue with it all...on the same ships...all the newest ones to be exact.  You take the entire pool deck, which previously was accessible to all 4400 passengers, and divide it into 4 sections now.  Lose H20.  Lose the pool deck area to Vibe.  Lose the front facing sight seeing to Haven.  

Adding things is fine.  Subtracting from the vast majority of people on this cruise (200 Haven Guests / 200 Vibe passes = 4000 people not in either of those) is the issue for me.  And yes, that puts things into a class like system in my estimation.  

The suggestions to go to other cruise lines is foolish.  As I have said, I have 17 cruises with NCL, I am platinum plus, and this is a public forum discussing cruising, so I (and others) are allowed to voice our displeasure and opinions.  We clearly like NCL if after the first cruise we booked 16 more, with another booked for 2020.  But we can disagree with this new model, and express so, without being essentially told "tough...leave".  

1 minute ago, elwood_98034 said:

No, I am just tired of you harassing me.

Harassing you by disagreeing with you?  Harassing you by arguing the counter to your points?  Harassing you by pointing out your inaccuracies with math and loose estimations when it comes to how much the Haven accounts for on a cruise?  All while on a public forum about cruising...while being cordial and non-insulting, and not breaking any of the forums rules for posting?

Yup, I guess I am then...and I apologize.  

44 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

I don't care how much an inside phone booth costs. I wouldn't even know how to look up the price

I think this sentence here sums up the entitlement sentiment.  Some people can only afford an "inside phone booth" as you call it.  Should those same people, who saved up to go on this cruise and that is the best they can do, have outside space by the pool taken away from them because they couldn't afford a better room?  In your estimation...yes.  They are in a phone booth, and it's below you to even to look up the price of it.  

8 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Here we go again Mike...

 

Actually...no...here we go again Elwood.  

This is direct from NCL's website for the 4/11/20-4/18/20 Escape 7 day cruise to Bermuda.  Prices pulled directly from the website.  Number of rooms pulled directly from a simple google search.  All rooms (except for the Studios) are based on double occupancy.  The same way there might be 4 people in a Haven room, there might be 5 people in a Family balcony room.  I am going based off the hard numbers of 2 to a room.  Non haven rooms equate to 6x as much as the Haven rooms.  Not even close to the Haven being equal to all other rooms combined (as you asserted).  MATH elmwood...MATH.  While you were in the Navy (and I thank you for your service, seriously), I was studying accounting and economics in College and Graduate school.  

PS this might by ugly as can be, I tried to upload an excel file, failed.  I apologize for that.  

ROOM CAT     # of ROOMS       COST PP              TOTAL COST 

HAVEN ROOMS

H2                     4                       $      8,599.00    $         68,792.00

H3                     4                       $      6,599.00    $         52,792.00

H4                    25                      $      5,599.00    $      279,950.00

H5                    22                      $      4,349.00    $      191,356.00

H6                    14                      $      4,699.00    $      131,572.00

H7                    12                      $      4,199.00    $      100,776.00

H8                    1                        $      4,499.00    $           8,998.00

H9                    13                      $      4,199.00     $      109,174.00

                                                                                 $      943,410.00

MID-SHIP BALCONY ROOMS

M1                    2                       $      2,849.00     $         11,396.00

M2                   20                      $      1,849.00     $         73,960.00

M3                   16                      $      1,829.00     $         58,528.00

M4                   4                        $      1,829.00     $         14,632.00

M6                   22                      $      2,029.00     $         89,276.00

M9                   20                      $      2,099.00     $         83,960.00

MA                  60                      $      1,829.00      $      219,480.00

MB                  80                      $      1,809.00      $      289,440.00

MC                  82                      $      1,799.00      $      295,036.00

MX                   2                       $      1,599.00      $           6,396.00

                                                                                $   1,142,104.00

BALCONY ROOMS

B1                   38                      $      1,899.00      $      144,324.00

B2                   68                      $      1,659.00      $      225,624.00

B3                   76                      $      1,649.00      $      250,648.00

B4                   28                      $      1,649.00      $         92,344.00

B6                   24                      $      1,749.00      $         83,952.00

B9                   28                      $      1,799.00      $      100,744.00

BA                 142                     $      1,649.00       $      468,316.00

BB                 168                     $      1,639.00       $      550,704.00

BC                 170                     $      1,629.00       $      553,860.00

BD                 118                      $      1,619.00      $      382,084.00

BE                 144                      $      1,609.00       $      463,392.00

BF                 160                      $      1,599.00       $      511,680.00

BX                    4                       $      1,399.00       $         11,192.00

                                                                                   $   3,838,864.00

OCEANVIEW ROOMS

O1                   38                      $      1,599.00      $      121,524.00

O2                    9                       $      1,449.00      $         26,082.00

OA                  25                      $      1,429.00       $         71,450.00

OB                  34                       $      1,399.00      $         95,132.00

OX                    2                       $      1,199.00      $           4,796.00

OK                    6                       $      1,199.00      $         14,388.00

                                                                                  $      333,372.00

INSIDE ROOMS

I1                    68                       $      1,169.00      $      158,984.00

IA                    70                       $      1,149.00      $      160,860.00

IB                    62                       $      1,139.00      $      141,236.00

IC                    30                       $      1,129.00      $         67,740.00

ID                    62                       $      1,109.00      $      137,516.00

IF                    30                        $      1,099.00     $         65,940.00

IX                     2                         $          999.00     $           3,996.00

                                                                                   $      736,272.00

STUDIO ROOMS

TI                   82                         $      1,599.00      $      131,118.00

                                                                                  $      131,118.00

HAVEN  TOTAL  = $    943,410.00

NON-HAVEN 

$ 1,142,104.00

 $ 3,838,864.00

 $    333,372.00

 $    736,272.00

 $    131,118.00

TOTAL =  $ 6,181,730.00  or 6.5x as much as Haven 

39 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Let me do some very rough maths for the ship that I am booked on.

A Haven guest is paying about $6,000 per person, and there are 300 of us. $1.8M

Just say a 'regular' cabin fare is $500 (and I know they wary wildly), $1.8M divided by $500 is the equivalent of 3,600 other cruisers.

 

Please link any NCL cruise where all the Haven rooms are $6000 and above, and the average of all the other rooms is $500.  

I would say the averages are more like $5000 and $1500.  

5000 x 300 = 1.5mm

1500 x 3600 = 5.4mm

Edit: In addition...300 Haven pax would equate to 150 Haven rooms based on double occupancy.  I think that might be an over estimate as well 

There is a "live" thread from Graphic Guy who took a behind the scenes tour.  Included with the cruise workers salary is 100% free room, board, food, health care and laundry.  Those factors and costs should be added to their annual salary, which probably make it a pretty decent living, albeit one that they are away from their families for 9 months at a time.  

That being said, we always leave in the DSC (assuming but not really caring) that this gets divided among all the workers on the ship.  And then we tip above that in cash for the people who do things for us personally (our steward, the waiters/waitresses we see regularly at the casino or bar or restaurants, room service delivery staff, etc.)  I would never think of going out to eat and not leaving a tip for the waiter, or getting a pizza delivered and not give a tip to the delivery guy.  I would/have made it less of a tip if service wasn't great and conversely tipped more for above and beyond service, but I couldn't fathom leaving $0.  

2 hours ago, Birdie And Sue said:

So there has been a LOOOOOOOONG history of people being frustrated with the Vibe selling out quickly and people getting all pissed off at how they missed out, and now when NCL extends the Vibe so more people can get passes it is 'awful'?  OK I get it. 🤔

It's relation.  No one seems to be sure how many more Vibe passes there will be.  But it's safe to assume that there will not be passes available for 1/3 of the pax on the ship...even though 1/3 of the pool deck is now devoted to Vibe.  

If they increase the number of passes to 200, but took away 1/3 of the space...yes that breed more frustration.  95% of the ship still gets shut out of Vibe...but lose alot more real estate 

3 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I don't know what to say, since we disgree and will never agree, except you might want to look at other lines.  I would suggest Celebrity or Crystal.

You are the second person to make a comment like that.  I have been on 17 NCL cruises.  I am platinum plus.  This is a forum designed for discussing cruises.  How is the solution to find a new line?  Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion, one that is clearly shared by others?  

It is crazy because that many won't fit and there will be a bigger passenger backlash if they are paying for Vibe, but can't use the facilities.  With your scenario of letting a thousand by passes, why doesn't sporting events that hold X allow X more in, because the venues can't hold that amount and not everyone would get a seat.

Not true...look at the picture I posted.  I don't know what the max. capacity on the pool deck is normally set for (unlikely that they expect every passenger be up there at once, so it's not going to be 4500) but Vibe is 1/3 of that area.  So if the total area is designed to hold 4500, then 1000 would fit in Vibe (per NCL's own blue prints).  

Borrowed from Doug in the Encore thread to help illustrate my point.  Look at how much area has been taken away from the general public for Haven and Vibe PLUS Spice H20, another free spot for the general passenger taken away and replaced with go-karts and laser tag.  So the ~3500 passengers, who aren't in Haven, or didn't get Vibe passes, are to fit in that Green area.  Insanity.

2 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I believe all the things you listed are under your control.  If you want a Vibe pass that much, get to the terminal earlier, etc.  Someone cruising in a balcony and paying more for an inside cabin, knows the price different.  There is a much bigger difference in the price of a regular cabin versus a Haven suite.

 

Sure they can sell them on line, but what about some of the cruisers who don't use a computer, it would still be unfair to them or someone who is traveling before the cruise and doesn't have access to a computer, it wouldn't be fair to them.   Upping the number of Vibe passes to 1000 is crazy, IMHO, and would destroy what Vibe is.  They should up the quanity, based on how many they think they can accommodate, giving them the special treatment they are paying for, and no more, because it sure wouldn't be fair for someone pay for the Vibe to not be able to use something they are paying for.

I'm not sure where you live or where you usually leave from on your cruises, but I live in Long Island and we always leave from Manhattan.  Getting to the terminal at a certain time is 100% NOT solely my control.  Traffic to the terminal can change in an instant in NY, and we have been stuck in 2 hours of traffic for a trip that would take 35 mins if no one else was on the road.  

It is 2019...are there really people booking cruises in 2019 who do not use a computer?  And if there are...how do they book their dining reservations, shore excursions, show reservations, etc...Vibe would be booked the same way.

And last counter point.  Upping the number of Vibe passes from 100 to 1000 is crazy.  BUT taking an area originally designed to hold 4500 people and cutting it down to 1/3, and expecting 4000 (total pax less Haven and Vibe) to fit ISN'T crazy?  Vibe is 1/3 of the top deck.  So why not allow 1/3 of the people access to it?  

49 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I guess I'm confused why this is an issue.  When you stay at a good hotel, there are suites and concierge levels and those guests get things that those not in those rooms or floors get.  When you fly, there is first class, business class and those in economy don't get anything extra, unless they pay for a few inches of extra leg room or drinks.  When you go to a sporting event, there are suites who get things that those in regular seats don't get.  And at some sporting events, some seats get beverage and meal service, while others have to walk up and get their own.  I've never heard anyone say that sporting events have a class system or hotels or airlines, so why is it that if cruise lines do the same thing, it is a class system.  I wouldn't never think of any of this, including cruise lines as a class system, I would say it is "you pay for what you get".  I've cruised in suites, balcony cabins an ocean view cabins, in my over sixty cruises and I've never felt that I didn't get what I paid for and never considered myself traveling in a class above anyone or a class below anyone else on the ship. 

The issues (at least my issues) isn't that Haven gets more...they pay more, they should get more...done in my opinion.  

The dividing of the top/pool deck into 3 segments is the problem.  Haven (which as per above, I am fine with getting more because they paid more).  Vibe & Regular.  

Vibe is NOT something anyone and everyone has access to.  Haven, yes, anyone who is willing to can spend more money when booking and be Haven guests, with all the added perks and in this case, space on the top outside deck.  Vibe however is a crap shoot.  There are not 1500 (1/3 the pax count on Escape) passes.  Only the first 100 (maybe they up that to 200?) passengers who board the ship, and race to headliners, will have access to this 1/3 of area on the pool deck.  

So using reverse logic here.  Haven you spend more, you get more.  Think most people would agree to that right?  Fine.

I book in an Aft balcony room for $1499pp = $3000 total

You book in an Inside guarantee for $499pp=$1000 total

I spent $2000 more than you.  But I hit traffic on the way to the terminal and get there 2 hours after you.  I have no shot at Vibe, while you get Vibe passes at $200 pp, or $400 total.

So the new score card is $3000 for me, $1400 for you.  I still spent significantly more than you.  But you now have access to AN EXTRA 3RD OF OUTSIDE POOL SPACE than I do.  That isn't the old Vibe with a small little area.  That is a significant amount of real estate, outside, with hot tubs.  But per the Haven analogy, I still spent more than you, yet I am punished.

So first, they take away previously allotted space for all passengers, and divide it into 3 segments.  One for the people who spend the most on the cruise.  One for the regular folks.  And One for those who are lucky enough, and have the ability to, get to the terminal super early and secure Vibe passes.  Even if other still spent more on the cruise, they are punished...because they didn't spend Haven money more, only a few hundred/thousand more.  

For this to be fair, NCL should sell Vibe passes online, and should up the number of passes to like 1000.  If the entire top deck used to be for all 4500 passengers, 1/3 of that area should be for significantly more people than the 100 they currently allow.  This way, access to this area won't be as scarce and cause segregation (and a class system) 

Wow sorry to hear this happened, but thank you for posting.  Will add a calendar reminder a few days prior to final payment being due for our cruise 

18 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Your the one crying Mikey about the changes. And it is that simple. Their are plenty of other cruise line you can do business with. 

I don't remember shedding a single tear.  I am agreeing with the OP about the class system being more and more prevalent with NCL and their changes/new ships.  And I don't know how that is even an arguable point anymore.

Escape is going into dry dock and will be under going the same changes of the Getaway.

Escape holds 4500 passengers.

The pool deck is being divided into 3 sections, Haven/Vibe/Regular folks

There are not 1500 Haven/1500 Vibe/1500 Regular folks.

The Haven you have to spend more granted.  Vibe, you have to spend more AND get to the pier extra early AND win a rat race to secure tickets.  So now, not only segregating based on how much you spend on the cruise, doing so based on how early you board and how fast you can run.  It's stupid, sorry.  

20 minutes ago, Quencups said:

Just curious.....and we sail all types of cabins.....when did it become a crime to work hard all year and splurge to be pampered on your vacation in the Haven?....The idea that everyone in the Haven is a pompous snob is just unfair....I have seen a lot of pompous snobs on cruises and they were not in the Haven.....LOL....some were tho…. 😉

I think there is a strict distinction between splurging and being rewarded vs. having stuff taken away from you.

We choose to cruise 2 times a year vs 1 cruise in Haven.  I do not begrudge the people who do cruise in Haven.  And for the prices they are paying, they do deserve more, I get it.  My problem is why does giving the Haven more mean taking away more from the non-Haven people?  They are not connected.

You want to give the Haven more open space, do it.

You want to increase the Vibe area so you can sell more tickets and make more money, do it.

But why do those have to come at the cost of taking from the people who don't fall into either of those categories?  Why do you take the open pool deck and divide it by 3 when there are way more people who are Not Haven or Not Vibe?  Why do all 3 classes get equal real estate?  

11 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

If you book the DOS you will be paying 40x what a couple will pay for their $299pp cabin. The people in the DOS aren't eating or drinking 40 times the value of other people. The cabin isn't 40 times bigger. They don't have 40 times the deck space. What they are really doing is subsidising everyone else. It is the same situation with First Class/Business on airlines. First Class/Business is where the airlines make the majority of their profits, and they can afford to have cheaper Economy seats because of it.

I find it hard to believe that the $299 cabins only cost that much, so the ship has to extract additional money out of people somehow just to break even. People often use the term 'nickel and dime'. NCL is monetizing everything on the ship, otherwise those $299 fares would probably need to be replaced with $499 fares.

Imagine they have $199 fares, but you get charged $50 per bag, and breakfast in the Cafe is $8. The airlines do the same thing.

Now it's 40X...went from 10x to 20x....man Haven is getting expensive 

39 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Once again, it's pretty simple. If you don't like how NCL runs their business take your business to another company

Hey thanks for the sage, insightful, and utterly stupid response.  We have 17 NCL cruises under our belt.  We are platinum plus.  This is a forum to discuss cruises.  

Once again, it's pretty simple, if you have nothing useful to say...STFU  

Not to add fuel to the fire here...but I am slowly starting to agree with the OP.  But more so based on what NCL did with the Getaway, and what they are doing on the Encore.  

Taking the open pool deck, which while always crowded/was still always free, and now dividing it into 3 sections:

Haven gets 1/3 of the area

Vibe (i.e. pay more on top of your cruise fare) gets 1/3

General public gets 1/3 

Except, on a cruise with 4500 passengers, 1500 of them are not Haven, and they aren't selling 1500 Vibe passes.  

I wouldn't go to the extreme of the OP, and call any person steerage.  But clearly this is some sort of segregation on the part of NCL based on how much money you spend.  

14 minutes ago, Steff79 said:

at the first cruise there was no passes sold, not sure how they do it at the 9 days baltics cruises? But the baltics cruises are port intensive, i´m not sure if they will sell them. at my baltic cruise last year i never saw someone there. it is a death deck space.

 

how do handle ncl the vibe in alaska? when encore is going there with the big vibe? do they sell passes in Alaska? do they sell them at bliss and joy in Alaska?

Didn't realize that was where it was now...thought it was down in Miami.  Would be curious if they lower the price and how many more passes they sell.  If they up from say 100 to 300, and keep it at $200 a pop...$60k a cruise.  That's a lot of extra income...

3 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

Actually have a legit question, if someone knows the answer to it:

 

On the Breakaway and Escape (only 2 other ships with Vibe I have been on), the Vibe passes are now $200+ and I want to say are limited to ~100 passes per cruise.

 

On the Getaway, with the expanded Vibe...how much are they going for, and how many passes are there?  Does anyone know? 

Anyone?  Someone has to have been on the Getaway since the expansion right?