pontac

Thanks I didn't rant. I stated what happened, how it didn't match the description, that I thought it overpriced, and proposed an amount I thought it worth, and requested a refund of the difference. Viking were more generous.

This is a great question. I have been pondering it since first reading a couple of hours ago. Apologies for the rambling answer; if it’s too long or too boring just read the last paragraph. First I suppose is that I don’t know because I don’t know how I would be if I was un-knowing about wine. I started learning because I knew nothing about wine and didn’t know what to pick when presented with a wine-list when taking a girl out. There was a time that I thought I knew it all. But I didn’t and I never will because wine encompasses such a wide range of areas. But it is a hobby and an interest. It has taken me to places I wouldn’t otherwise have gone, and I’ve met people I otherwise wouldn’t have met. I drink wine with dinner and enjoy it. I don’t score, just drink and enjoy. But these are wines I have bought, so I’ve bought wines that I – and Mrs P – will enjoy. There are some varieties Mrs P will not drink so I don’t buy them; there are some that don’t give me pleasure so I don’t buy them. But we’ve learned our likes and dislikes over the years. And tastes change. The wines we drink today are not the same as when we started, or ten years ago. I have been in judging teams at wine competitions, and then you have to score wines. In those it’s not a matter of whether you personally like them but whether they are a good example of their type, fault free and have that something extra. At competitions and tastings one is having a taste of wine and spitting it out. But at home you accompany it with a meal, you see the wine develop over the time the bottle is been open. Here I – and I think everyone – makes a subconscious judgement on a three point scale 1 = don’t buy again, 2 = possible, may buy again, 3 = wow, I must get some more of this. Wine is meant to be enjoyed, most wine is meant to be enjoyed with food. I am not critiquing my dinner wine to see whether it rates 85 or 86 points, I am enjoying it. My wine knowledge means in restaurants I know what to pick that will suit the food and our palates. If a wine is faulty then I have the confidence to reject it – although this is nearly always unpleasant. (You mention that in the 1960’s many wines had flaws – so true. Wine drinkers today are so lucky that bad wines have vanished even at the cheapest prices because supermarket and other buyers will not stock them, grape growers use better methods, and winemakers are better skilled. There’s a risk with any wine with a cork closure, but cork makers have reduced the incidence of that happening from the 5-6% that it was to 1-2%. Still too high, but much better.) I am still learning about wine, and I realise I’ve forgotten a lot of what I once knew, for example one time I could list all the wine regions of Germany. I can’t now, but then I drink little German wine nowadays. My main interests now are grape varieties, labelling and wine laws. Many years ago I went to Houston, Texas on business. My host took me one evening to the Astrodome to see a baseball match. I had never seen one, I don’t know the rules, I didn’t know the teams or the players. Would I have enjoyed the match more if I knew the rules, if I knew the teams or if I knew the players various skills or would such knowledge spoil the game?

I'm not sure about avid 🙂. Viking was the first line I went on - it was chosen by the friends who cajoled us to join them - and it offered all we needed. Also when we started cruising there were few alternatives. Nowadays there are so many competitors and I'm sure they're good. However wedid take a Scenic cruise - a line many on this forum highly praise - and |we were disappointed. If writing 3 wine books, presenting tastings on three contents and having WSET certificates counts as 'a bit' then I plead guilty.

I've done that tour - but some time ago. It's a good trip, you'll see a lot and it's good to have time to get used to being looked after for two weeks Here are the wine-lists from Viking's 'Rhine & Moselle Discovery' 2023 cruise from Basel down the Rhine then up the Mosel at Koblenz to Trier which will be more like the list you'll get as this cruise is mostly in Germany. Oh, and the Champagne on that cruise was Veuve Cliquot. We had quite a lot 🙂

Here you go. This is the wine list from our cruise on the Rhone last month*. Viking have a four page wine list, two pages each for whites and red, one page for 'local' wines, one for wines from other places Viking visits. You do not say which cruise you'll be on. As 'local' wines will differ to match the country cruised through there is not one set list for every Viking cruise. In other words, I'd expect the Mississippi cruise to feature mostly US wines, and cruises in countries that are not large producers of wine - such as Netherlands - to interpret 'local' differently. Also, a great number of bottles are consumed and wines need to be large production and obtainable. Note also that Champagne, sparkling wines and Port (known as Porto in the USA) do not appear on the wine list - they are on the bar list. On this cruise the Champagne was Jacquart Champagne Brut Mosaïque. We enjoyed a glass before some meals as an aperitif, and to accompany some lunches. Please note 1) that you can bring wines on board for zero corkage and the waitrons will happily open & pour them for you at meal times 2) everyone in the cabin must pay for the Silver Spirits package, 3) that wines marked with an asterisk are not included, 4) we have never paid for the package its been a freebie for early booking, 5) you get unlimited pours of house wines at lunch and dinner and they are quite good. *See here

The situation is the other way around than stated, though the effect is the same. Companies started introducing higher prices for customers using credit cards to cover extra costs of credit card fees. The EU ruled that the price must be the same, i.e. a company can't charge more for customers paying with a card. Many companies do not now accept Amex one the ground of its higher charges.

Does "the industry" call them longships, as a river cruiser I've never heard that as a general term? I've heard them called hotel-boats. Longships is what Viking call a class of their river boats, but that is surely based on that cruise lines Scandinavian ownership. The historical Vikings travelled in longships, though their wooden boats were powered by sail and oar. (I can testify that today's Longships do not require their passengers to row 🙂) Scenic call their river boats 'space-ships' but as their dimensions are the same, it's no more spacious than a longship and a longship is not longer than a space-ship.

We've had both. There isn't much spare room in the cabin. You can get in and out of the bed/beds whichever way you have them. You can access power outlets whichever way you have them. Choose what you think best then, when you get to the cabin if you'd prefer the bed the other way ask them to arrange it.

Thanks for making that clear. If the OP wants to visit Paris then a Rhone trip isn't a prerequisite. Paris is also offered as an extension to the Bordeaux trip on Viking and no doubt many more, and if one wants to do it on one's own then Bordeaux is a short flight from Paris CDG or a two hour train journey

I welcome questions about the cruise

Reflections on the cruise I like the heat and we ate out on the prow almost every lunch and dinner, and most of the others in the open were Brits and Australians. The majority of Americans preferred being inside with air-conditioning. It was also the first time I could spend any length of time on the veranda, and some evenings after dinner I sit there with a glass of white wine from our fridge while reading my Kindle. Cooking seemed to have less flair on this cruise. As a non-cheese eater I was most aware of just how many dishes had cheese; there didn’t use to be as many. This cruise the bottle of wine chosen from the wine list was left on the table for us to pour subsequent glasses. We preferred this, rather than the waiter taking the bottle away then coming back to top up glasses. Since we were cruising through the famous Rhone wine region I found it disappointing there were only two red Rhone wines on the list included in the drinks package. The one Chateauneuf du Pape, at €120, was not included in the package. There were about ten people in their twenties or thirties, the majority in the 40-50 range and a sprinkling of 60-70 year olds. It shouldn’t be assumed that the leisurely walking groups were only for the elderly, one of the youngest women on the cruise was so large she had difficulty walking and chose the easy group. Anyone considering a trip to France in August ought to be aware that French people take their holidays in August and many places are closed.

Day 8 - Tuesday 22 August – Lyon > London The latest time to depart the cabin is 08:00, which means we have only really had the suite for six full days since we arrived so late on Day1. We are not due to depart until 14:45 so have a leisurely breakfast and later the buffet embarkation/disembarkation lunch. When not eating we sit, after a short spell on the sun deck, in the lounge. The earliest departure was 03:30 and the latest is twelve hours later at 15:30. Two other couples are on the same flight as us and Viking have booked a people-mover taxi for us. There is no delay getting to the airport where we have to wait 20 minutes for check-in to open. Then we’re homeward bound. Both cases arrive with us.

Day 7 - Monday 21 August – Lyon This is the last full day of the cruise. Mount Brouilly At 08:45 we join an included excursion to Beaujolais Wine Country. We travel north as the guide tells about Beaujolais. The appellation Beaujolais, which includes the once famous young wine Beaujolais Nouveau, but the best wines come from the ten ‘crus’ which use their name instead of Beaujolais – although all the red wines of the region are made from the same black grape variety Gamay. About 5% of production, rarely seen outside the area, is white wine made from Chardonnay. We go to Chateau des Ravatys in the hills about Mount Brouilly which gave its name to two of the ‘crus’, Brouilly and Cote de Brouilly. First we go to a vineyard to see vines with plump bunches of black grapes, then we get a tour of the underground cellars before being seated in a barrel aging cellar for a tasting. We are poured four wines, a white, a red Brouilly and two Cote de Brouilly and nibbles are passed around. The excellence of the Beaujolais excursion emphasises just how overpriced was the optional Chateauneuf du Pape visit. And while we can buy the wines if we want, there isn't the hard sell we got in Chateauneuf du Pape We are moored on the Rhone at Lyon and some people wander off into the city in the afternoon. At 17:00 we attend a demonstration in the lounge given by two people from a silk factory. They explain how complicated pictures are imprinted on silk by multiple additions of dye through a screen. After 25 minutes the talk turns to various ways women can wear silk squares and I lose interest and return to the cabin.

Day 6 - Sunday 20 August – Lyon Viking Delling departed Vienne at 05:00 and three hours later moored in Lyon, our final stop. At 09:00 is an included excursion. A coach tours us through the city and up to a high promontory with a cathedral and fine view over Lyon and its two rivers, Saone and Rhone. Close by is the Eiffel look alike tower now used as a TV and radio transmitter. Saone is the foreground river, Rhone is shown by he horizontal line of trees in the middle of the picture. Viking Delling is moored to the right of the four white light towers When the coach takes us down to the Saone and the guide prepares for a walking tour we bale out and make our own way back to the boat. It is stifling hot in the city and the prospect of a coffee on board is more attractive than looking at buildings followed by ‘free-time’. We miss the afternoon Enrichment Lecture on WWII Lyon and the Resistance in the lounge and also the Programme Director’s disembarkation briefing at which 'at least one person per cabin' is supposed to attend. But we need only to know three things: when to put cases outside our cabin, when to vacate our cabin and when we’ll be taken to the airport. As we have an afternoon flight and we know from experience that the answer to the first two questions is 08:00 and that everything we need to know about disembarkation will be placed in our room.

Day 5 - Saturday 19 August – Tournon 09:00 was the included excursion for a ride on the Tournon Steam Train. This is a heritage railway with a one metre gauge. I’d been tempted by the optional Vineyard Hike, but decided it was too strenuous for my current health after viewing Viking’s “Beyond the Brochure,” video featuring Jean Newman Glock. It’s a short coach ride to the railway station and we are there with ample time to spare before the train is due to depart. There is a gift ship and a separate (free) museum and the steam engine itself attracts attention as the crew get the steam up. Train carriages are open, more like goods wagons with roofs and have wooden benches. There are many groups on the trip. Some have their name on chalkboards, but the carriages that Viking uses have a metal holster that takes Viking’s paddle. Each of the four groups from our boat has their own carriage. Guests from Viking Heimdal that departed Lyon to go to Avignon on the same day we departed Avignon to cruise to Lyon are on the train. Capacity of the train is 500 passengers. We are given a map of the route and can see where the track crosses the gorge. The best views are from the right side, but our guide asks us to swap sides coming down, so everyone gets view from both sides. It’s been a dry summer and when the train sets off it is closely followed by a diesel locomotive pulling a water bowser to extinguish any trackside fires that sparks from the steam engine might cause. We are told that in flood the River Doux sometime reaches the height of the track, but on our August trip the river consists of pools separated by dry stony river bed a long way below. After 35 minutes the train stopped and we can get out. Many rushed to the turntable where the de-coupled engine reverses onto and is turned so it is ready to pull the train back down. We swapped sides in the carriage as the train headed back down reaching the terminus in 26 minutes. Delling departed Tournon shortly after we left so the coaches took us up-river to Andance where Delling is waiting for us to embark for lunch before setting off again. During the afternoon the wheelhouse is open for visits and there are French pastries available in the lounge and a demonstration of how to make Chocolate Fondant. We enjoy a relaxing afternoon cruising and pass vineyards of Cote Rotie. The boat is scheduled to moor at Vienne 16:45 for an included walking tour of this historic town, but it is delayed and arrived after dinner so the Vienne excursion is cancelled.

Day 4 - Friday 18 August – Viviers We arrived at Viviers at 01:30, and after breakfast we took the included excursion ‘Viviers Walk’ starting at the civilised time of 09:45. As we waited by our guide I heard laughing from one of the other groups. Their guide seemed to have them in stitches. Viviers is small sleepy riverside town of fewer than 4,000 inhabitants and in August there were few people about and fewer moving cars. It had once been important and there was a cathedral on a high rocky crag that overlooks the town. Untouched since 1546 is the ornately carved façade of the ‘Knight’s House’, all the more strange as it is in a long terrace of houses with plain frontages. The house was owned by a salt merchant who wanted to flaunt his riches. He was given the job of tax collector by the Bishop, got even richer and ended as ruler of the town. Our guide took the group up a steep, cobbled street to the cathedral. I stayed behind looking at the façade and heard laughing people coming towards me. It was the leisurely group. Their guide was a short wiry Frenchman, in his late 60s or early 70s, and I listened as he told the history of the Knight’s house. But, unlike the guide with our group, he peppered his explanation with jokes and shrewd comments. While the earlier guide had pointed out the carving of knights with lances as a joust, he said that as some of the knights were using the lances on fallen men it was surely a battle scene as jousts were a contest between mounted knights. He moved the group on to the nearby small square to get everyone seated, before telling a tragic story about his mother’s family who were living in Viviers in the 1940’s under German occupation and of an American commando raid through the town that fought German troops as they headed to destroy anti-aircraft guns sited on the rocky crag. If you go on this excursion I recommend leaving whatever group you’re in and joining his laughing one. If it’s the leisurely group you won’t get to the cathedral but you’ll have a great time and learn a lot. We cast off at 13:00 and we lunched as the boat cruised, Most preferred to eat inside where it was air-conditioned, but we revelled in the heat and took every opportunity to eat outside. We started with Champagne, and got refills during lunch. During this cruise we went through several locks. Some had pairs of doors that swung open (like this one) some had gates that sank below the water and some had gates that lifted high out of the water and dripped on the boat. At 18:15 was the Viking Explorer Society Party for passengers who’d travelled before with Viking. I remember when this was a minority of people, but now it is the vast majority and there was no move to exclude anyone. Trays of cocktails were there for the taking. The Programme Director was absent dealing with an emergency so it was an unstructured gathering, during which the Captain explained about Aquavit having to twice cross the equator and anyone who wanted shots got them. Dinner today had my highlight starter of the cruise - Red Pepper Tartlet. Although it looked nothing special such was the intensity of flavour that the first mouthful made me stop and go 'wow'. From the regional specialities menu I had an excellent coq au vin as the main course and a delicious decadent walnut tart as dessert. The wine was a local Cozes-Hermitage by Maison des Alexandrins. After dinner we found two shot glasses in our cabin. We moored at Tournon at 22:00 at the end of a most enjoyable. day

Day 3 - Thursday 17 August - Avignon When we woke we were moored again at Avignon. The city is surrounded by a serious wall, with battlements and regular forts along it. The included excursion ‘Avignon Walk and Pope’s Palace’ set off at 09:00 but we didn’t join it. We’d done it in 2015 and Joan didn’t want to trudge again through the crowds packed in the palace which would be very stuffy in the current temperature. Instead we had a lazy breakfast during which Joan got a text that her bag had arrived, but reception said it hadn’t arrived. We decided to explore Avignon ourselves, but tried, without success, the two cruise boats moored next to ours in case Joan’s bag had gone to the wrong ship. The marble pavements in Avignon, polished by generations of feet, were very slippery. After viewing the outside of the Pope’s palace, glad we were not in the crowds queuing for entry, we returned to the boat. At 14:00 we joined the coach going on the optional excursion ‘Chateauneuf du Pape Wine Tasting’. For 70 years in the 14thC Avignon had been the home of the papacy and seven Popes had ruled there. They built a chateau (now a ruin, above) among vineyards on a hill to escape the summer heat of Avignon. That new chateau now gives its name to the wine of the surrounding area, which is made of a blend of Grenache, Syrah and Mourvèdre but 18 or 13 (sources differ) are be allowed. Millennia ago the region used to be the Rhone river bed and the soil comprises large smooth river-bed stones. These take in the day’s heat and release warmth during the night, adding to the richness of the wine. Chateauneuf du Pape wines, in bottles embossed with Papal keys, are expensive which explained to us the high cost of the optional tour. We were taken to the ruins on the new Chateau, surrounded by vineyards and had a short time to take photos, before being bussed down to the village below. We were led from the coach to Chateauneuf du Pape village centre and given just over 20 minutes ‘free time’. The blurb for this says this is where we’d ‘meet the vintners whose families have lovingly cultivated these vineyards for generations. They invite you to browse their winery cellars and learn the delicate blending process behind their extraordinary wine. Toast your experience by sampling the distinctive bouquet and finish of these very special wines in the place of their birth'. There was not enough time to ‘meet vintners’, ‘browse winery cellars’ ‘learn the delicate blending process’ and sample their wines. I didn’t see any vintners, let alone receive any invitations. The description was highly misleading. Then we were bussed to Alain Jaume & Fils winery where we were shown their cellars before going for a tasting. Only three wines were presented, one not exported white and one red Chateauneuf du Pape wine. The third wine was a €10.20 rosé from Tavel. The hostess seemed keener to encourage wine shipments to the USA than to tell us about the wines. Then back to the boat. I felt we were overcharged at £154 for a couple and that while two Chateauneuf du Pape wines might technically be a Chateauneuf du Pape Wine Tasting, it wasn’t in the spirit. Alain Jaume makes four different red Chateauneuf du Pape wines. Not recommended.* When we got back Joan’s bag was in our room. The boat left at 18:30 heading up-river to Viviers. *On my return I wrote to Viking about my concerns with this tour – as detailed in the post. They offered generous On Board Credit for our next cruise, and said that the excursion and my comments would be discussed by the board. I am satisfied with their response