lstone19

12 hours ago, memoak said:

 The post I responded to had to do with booking this through their TA and seeing  the charge on their invoice.  It sounds like they are paying for something that may not even happen

When did Princess start a system for advance booking the Chef's Table? The last time we did it (which was in 2019), you could only request it on board.

This "[My TA] places an order for Chef's Table and it appears as a line item on my invoice" GFLeeper mentioned might be nothing more than the TA charging him or her and then using the money to buy refundable OBC that offsets the Chef's Table charge on board. As far as then being contacted on board to schedule, I suppose that might happen based on a TA request but I certainly wouldn't count on it considering how plenty of other reports indicates problems with follow-up on board.

5 hours ago, memoak said:

The number of evenings that it is offered depends on chef and how many sign up. If they cancel it do you get your money back ?  

Of course. They are not going to charge you if they don't hold it. 

For all the worrying about getting selected, sometimes, spots are going begging. The first time we went, we were at a traditional dining large table and the Maitre D' stopped by to apologize to one couple that it appeared they wouldn't have enough people for another one. We asked questions as did another couple and boom! - the table was now complete.

7 minutes ago, Host CJSKIDS said:

@Ombud Just to be on the safe side, I got rid of it.  Who knows what someone could find out with past info!  

Almost certainly, nothing. Based on my airline experience, record locators (booking or confirmation numbers) are recycled almost immediately after the travel is in the past. That's one reason why with most airlines resolving any post-travel issues requires the ticket number and not the record locator (ticket numbers do not go away for a few years). While the Princess system could be different, I doubt it as most transportation reservation systems trace back to the same initial work.

2 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

Princess will know that you will be In Transit when in Barcelona.  People do B2Bs all the time.  It doesn't phase Princess one bit.

 

One thing to be mindful of are Princess shore excursions on turnaround day in Barcelona.  You'll have to pay attention if they are for disembarking passengers, meaning the excursion will end at the airport, OR for in transit passengers, meaning that the excursion will end back the cruise terminal.  While excursions for in transit guests are offered, sometimes they are cancelled due to lack of takers, and if there are few in transits to begin with, the likelihood of it being cancelled are high.  Just have plan B, just in case.

I'm aware that people do B2Bs all the time and had all three combined into one cruise in the app and stayed that way, I would not be concerned. It's that they combined for about 36 hours and the split again that has me concerned that something somewhere doesn't have it quite right.

Regarding what you say about the shore excursions is also a concern but obviously something to deal with when and if it happens. Our first choice Barcelona excursion is booked for our second time in Barcelona 21 days later.

I've read here before (but can't find right now) that when you are booked on a B2B on separate reservations, the Princess app combines it into one cruise. Well, maybe.

We recently took a move over offer allowing a replacement up to 30 nights or two 15 night cruises. Decided to do four weeks next spring on Sun Princess - that's 1-1/3 of its 21-night rotation in the Med. Due to how it is marketed, that was done as two 14-night cruises B2B (Barcelona to Athens and then Athens to Rome). App combined them into one as expected. As this starts with its first cruise in the Med next spring, we decided to add its TA from Fort Lauderdale. But paying for this one. Initially it appeared separately in the app, then for about 1-1/2 days, they combined into one 42 night cruise, then went back to being separate. Hmmmm.

Factors that might play into this:

First, both the TA for next year and the original cruised we moved off of this year were booked as DF guarantees (choosing a cabin is not an option for the fare we are on). When the move over bookings were done, rather than still being a DF guarantee, we were given confirmed DE rooms. But different ones for the two segments due to how Princess divides up the ship for the multiple ways Med cruises can be booked, So likely two room moves - one every 14 nights (TA is supposed to be seeing if they can eliminate at least one of the moves). Second, this year's was booked with Princess Premier which carried over to the replacement cruises. The TA was booked Standard. Not sure if either of these is preventing the app from keeping them combined (particularly as I've heard of the app combining cruises on different ships).

Granted, this is 10 months away but I am wondering if when we board the TA, since the app is currently showing these as two separate cruises, will they know we stay on at Barcelona (but since the TA starts with eight sea days, plenty of time to deal with it on board).

Also wondering about medallions. Prior to booking the TA, I had already placed the medallion order for the Med part. After booking the TA, I received an email that the medallion order had been cancelled "at my request" (NOT) which is when I noticed that the TA had been combined with the other two only to be split again 1-1/2 days later. So I'm guessing I will eventually have to do two medallion orders (one for the TA and one for the rest) and do the one for the rest for port pickup since we'll be long gone by the time they would mail them.

A concern I have with all this is shore excursions - particularly at Barcelona where we will want to do something and the last thing I want is for them to tell us due to how it's booked we need to go check-in on shore (note the TA can be booked as 14 nights to Barcelona and 21 nights to Rome so for some people on the ship, Barcelona will be a normal port day - it is not a day where they are expecting almost everyone to turn over).

Anyway, as I said, plenty of time both ahead of all this and once on the TA to make sure everything is correct. But also open to any thoughts.

30 minutes ago, Princess Chatterer said:

An easy way to see if both propellers are turning is go to the aft end of the ship and look at the ocean wake.  One wake equals one propeller.  Two wakes equals two propellers.

That's the propeller slipstream (also called prop wash). The wake is the waves pushed out to the side and behind the ship due to the water it is displacing.

6 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

I suspect that many who use the term “dry dock” don’t understand the literal implications and really just mean time at a repair facility, wet or dry. 

I agree. But we can educate since the lack of that knowledge causes speculation as above of limping the ship to Victoria (the nearest dry dock) to fix it.

2 minutes ago, EDVM96 said:

Yes, it's used by Carnival. But I can't remember seeing a Princess ship there.

There must be some place on the Atlantic or its close waters they use. I don't think Regal Princess or Sky Princess have left the Atlantic since going into service (Regal Princess was supposed to go to Australia but I do not believe that ever happened due to COVID).

34 minutes ago, EDVM96 said:

Furthermore, Princess uses the dry docks in Portland OR, Victoria BC and Singapore for maintenance. Not southern Florida.

 

I think there's also a facility in Freeport, Bahamas that is used for ships in the Atlantic.

20 minutes ago, Joe Denver said:

My concern is that a serious propulsion issue may require significant maintenance at dry dock. Nearest facility is likely Victoria. So maybe Sapphire docks in Whittier and then treks slowly down to Victoria. A week or two in dry dock for maintenance. We could be looking at four cancelled weeks. That's exactly how Carnival ended up cancelling four cruises last year to fix propulsion issues and reposition itself. I suspect they will do a more thorough investigation upon arrival in Whittier. Anyone on this weekend's cruise from Whittier hear anything?

I doubt this will require a dry dock visit. Dry dock visits are for work outside the hull below the waterline. Everything we've heard said the problem is in the electrical switchboard in the engineering spaces of the ship. I can't see needing to be in dry dock to fix or replace. Might need time alongside a suitable maintenance facility (if new equipment needs to be installed). 

If the propulsion issue was a bent shaft or damaged propeller, then yes, dry dock needed to fix. But shouldn't be needed for something inside the hull.

22 minutes ago, STLCARDS82 said:

There is a gap between coming back on November 3 from the 10 day to Martinique and the Brazilian adventure that starts on November 13 so there is a 10 day gap there

No there isn't. "10-Day Southern Caribbean with Tortola" departs Nov 3.

Marine Traffic finally has a real-time position for you after many hours of being out range of the land-based stations that are used for its free version. You're about 37 miles from Juneau so should be alongside by 1:30pm.

2 minutes ago, Sillygoosecruise said:

I'm sorry, I'm right there with you. The atmosphere on the ship is just terrible. People are angry and there vibe is just terrible. Princess really has done irreparable damage to their perception. They better make this right, I want my refund.

It's amazing how many people and companies just don't get how important communications is. From my airline days, I remember how the company pushed to pilots "Push or Talk" - at departure time, if the plane wasn't pushing back, they should be talking and letting the passengers know why we weren't.

I mentioned earlier being on a TA that had to deviate around a hurricane. Yes, that happens but as I said, the communications from the captain were abysmal. First announcement besides mentioning the hurricane said we'd miss the next two ports. No mention of where we were going instead. Several hours later, those of us looking at the map (cabin TV and some of the public displays) could see we had changed course again but not a word from the captain so it had become the magical mystery tour. Second announcement from the captain didn't come until 36 hours after the first and didn't provide much of substance. And the next announcement was another 36 hours after that where we were finally told we'd be arriving in New York a day early. 72 hours of not really knowing what we were doing and it was clearly showing with upset passengers and even ship's staff who were equally in the dark. It was actually hard to enjoy the sea days when you're wondering just what was being planned for us. Could we have done anything different? No. But knowing helps you mentally prepare for the next few days.

1 minute ago, Cruise Raider said:

By having no control over the situation, I was referring to the passengers. 
 

Ah. But that the passengers have no control is one of the problems. One of the things that my airline employer emphasized that when it comes to service recovery, passengers want choices. When a flight is delayed, is there another flight they can be rebooked on? Change of connecting city or an alternate destination airport (example: someone who lives halfway between San Francisco and San Jose may be perfectly fine with going to the other)? Or maybe the delay is such that they'd rather cancel and get a refund since there's no longer a reason to go.

Princess, as near as we can tell, offered no alternatives (but they did last year with Ruby Princess after it hit the pier in San Francisco). They knew they had a broken ship and they could have told people they had a problem and might need to cancel some ports. Sure some people were already committed but I'm sure there were some local passengers who might have preferred to go home and try another day. 

20 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

My point was simply that continuing to get oneself all riled up over something they have no control over, isn’t going to help the situation.

And this is where we fundamentally disagree. While it may have been a random failure, it absolutely was under Princess's control (Princess responsibility - in this context, they're the same thing). To go back to my earlier post about my airline career and that all irregularities (delays, cancellations, and diversions) were either carrier controllable or non-controllable, this is clearly carrier (Princess) controllable. And yes, I have expert knowledge on the subject since one of my job duties was to assist Customer Relations by making deep dives into data (since many times there were cascading delays) and make the call as to whether it was carrier controllable or not (example: late Flight 1 in turn delayed Flight 2 so another aircraft was subbed but still with a delay (just not as much as waiting for the original plane) for Flight 3; dig into the data and find the original delay to Flight 1 was due to a pilot that overslept so the delays to all three were carrier controllable).

11 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

The open ocean is absolutely stunning!  It’s probably the reason why those that cruise frequently book cruises.  Perhaps cruising isn’t the best vacation for those that don’t appreciate the open ocean.  

I don't disagree and when it's what I expect (doing a TA next March), I love it. But I don't consider an added sea day far from land to be directly substitutable for planned scenic cruising and/or a scheduled port call.

2 minutes ago, mtnesterz said:

The Sapphire has 5 engines, not two. Four diesels and one gas turbine.

All that available power must connect to some sort of transmission, which is what I suspect is the problem. But if you say you know they've been told to run on one, then I have no information to the contrary. There is a lot unexplained here.

On modern ships, the engines do not directly drive the propellers. The engines are nothing more than electrical generators. The propellers are turned by electric motors that use that generated electricity. From what's been posted, it appears that the problem is in the switching gear that routes the generated electricity to where it's needed.

The same is true of diesel railroad locomotives and has been true since day 1 (a few experiments in direct-drive locomotives have been failures). 

1 minute ago, Cruise Raider said:

While I can appreciate your disappointment, I still suggest making the best of every day.  There are still incredible views, maybe not the ones you’ve planned for but nevertheless, incredible ones.  I oftentimes find the best sites and sights when I’ve happened upon the unexpected.  
 

Really? Have you looked at where the ship is right now? It's about 25 miles from the southern tip of Haida Gwaii. There is nothing to see there except open ocean. They won't be close to land until well after dark tonight.

6 minutes ago, Sillygoosecruise said:

Okay I get the sens this person isn't working arguing with, but I'll point this the Superbowl isn't responsible for maintaining my TV, but princess IS responsible for keeping their ship in working order. And weather it's due to poor maintenance or not, it's their responsibility. I can't believe this needs to be spelled out like this. 

 

Completely agree. But it seems a lot of people believe that if it wasn't a deliberate act, then Princess is not responsible. 

I'm not in "THAT" category either. Weather happens and that truly meets the "act of God" category. A 2017 TA we were on had to deviate well around a hurricane and we missed two ports (and added one if you consider a port day in New York before disembarking there the next day to be an added port - and we did cruise from Manhattan to Brooklyn before disembarking). I don't hold Princess responsible for that change but I do hold Princess responsible for the abysmal communications from the captain who was apparently keeping no one informed about what was happening - even Guest Services had no idea what the plan was).

OTOH, last year (and as I mentioned earlier) we missed Juneau after two medical evacuations as we made our way north from San Francisco. And as I mentioned in that earlier post, the airline I retired from would have considered this to be carrier responsibility yet Princess did nothing for us other than the minimal refund of port charges. I don't want to minimize what those two passengers were dealing with but Princess failed to deliver what we paid for for a reason under their control (the decision to evacuate those passengers was made by Princess and/or their contractor (the ship's doctor)).

People love to fall back on the contract and all the rights it has for Princess to make changes. Basically that contract promises the passenger nothing and a basic legal point (although IANAL) is that a contract that promises one party nothing is not a valid contract. Or, as I saw recently, that the contract only promises ocean transportation. But what value does ocean transportation have on a round-trip cruise (not true of this Sapphire Princess cruise)? Our cruise last year was San Francisco to San Francisco. Why would I need ten days of ocean transportation to get me back to where I started? So I think that we can conclude that the value of ocean transportation on a round-trip cruise is zero.

Throw in laws about advertising and marketing and Princess has an obligation, despite what the cruise contract says, to deliver something substantially similar to what they promised in their marketing. You can argue about where the line is for "substantially similar" but this Sapphire Princess cruise is, IMHO, getting close to that line if it hasn't already crossed it.

4 minutes ago, JJ_Outdoors said:

Researched and paid for inside passage route to maximize coastal scenery of Alaska.  Not crawling along at a snails pace in the North Pacific missing what is looking to be possibly 3 destinations and associated excursions.  Can’t perfume the pig on the go/no go decision and resultant impact to clientele.

Not to minimize what JJ is saying, today's Inside Passage cruises are nowhere close to what they were years ago. Our first Alaska cruise was in 1993 on the first Sky Princess (originally Sitmar's Fairsky) and after exiting Seymour Narrows (which would have been in the middle of the night northbound most cruises as transit time is tide dependent) stayed inside past Bella Bella and Klemtu east of Princess Royal Island and then through the Grenville Channel which ends near Port Rupert (that first sea day was absolutely fascinating). Today's Inside Passage route has the ships in the Hecate Strait between the mainland and Haida Gwaii when heading to Ketchikan first and completely outside when Juneau is the first port. The main thing of today's normal cruise route the current cruise is losing is the Inside Passage between Ketchikan and Juneau (which is well worth seeing).

1 hour ago, Princessscrewedme said:

They didn't do it on purpose, but they failed to maintain their ship, so they're completely … responsible for this failure. 

I completely agree with this. Regardless of the why, a mechanical failure of the ship is 100% their responsibility. I am retired from the travel industry (airline) and was in the group that managed the reason categories we had for delays, cancellations, and diversions. There were many reasons but they grouped into two broad categories: company controllable and company non-controllable. Weather and Air Traffic Control were non-controllable; everything else was controllable (and therefore things like hotels for overnight delays and meal vouchers). Even things you might think were random acts completely beyond their control such as a medical diversion were company controllable (which I know from experience Princess disagrees). Everything maintenance related was controllable. Even though they can’t anticipate a random failure, the failure is still their responsibility.

46 minutes ago, JJ_Outdoors said:

14:15 is scheduled arrival.  Estimated arrival is a bit later than 14:15 UTC on the line below.

Missed that the next line said estimated arrival. Ouch, nine hours late (3:17pm local). While they can stay late since the ship only goes to Skagway the next day, that pretty much blows the Juneau port call as well.

19 minutes ago, JJ_Outdoors said:

Not sure what you’re trying to say with this but 14:15 UTC (aka GMT) is the 06:15 local I mentioned above.

1 minute ago, Princessscrewedme said:

The ship is constantly lurching forward, then seemingly losing momentum. I'm no cruise expert, but this doesn't seem normal. Especially for how flat the water is. It's just concerning that so much has been cancelled within the first 24 hours, so I just wonder how long it'll be until they cancel something else. I have a speedometer app that I check periodically and we're only moving 16-18 mph most of the time. I just feel like more cancelations are coming.

Cruise ships have a top speed of a little over 20 knots (23 mph). But they normally set a planned speed based on the distance to travel so they arrive at the next port at the desired time. Unfortunately, per your current position and the expected track marinetraffic.com is showing, you're about 625 nautical miles from Juneau so need to make about 18 knots (21 mph) to get there on-time. So it would appear there's still problems and you won't make Juneau on-time (marinetraffic.com is showing that the ship is reporting an ETA for Juneau of 6:15am local Tuesday but that you're only doing 15.3 knots - 35 hours at 15.3 knots will put you 100 nm (six hours) from Juneau at 6:15am Tuesday).