boatseller

2 minutes ago, mpdog42 said:

This is the attutude that has allowed the cruise lines to do cost cutting!! The "if i don't use it, then why should I pay for it"......

No one complains about money they spend on new things they don't use.

Those apps don't magically appear in the app store.

Or the expense of producing full theater productions.  Or onboad activities unimaginable even 10 years ago.

The only cost cutting I've been affected by is in the MDR on Royal Caribbean.  It's as edible as Universal Quick Servce (except in the Wizarding World).

25 minutes ago, jrapps said:

My issue with this political spin is that it seems like FL came to the mediation table prepared to accept nothing short of "We will repeal the CSO". Now that is just my opinion here as the exact details of the mediation are confidential, but this doesn't make it seem like they even tried to compromise.

When you hold all the cards, no reason to expect anything other than the opponent folding.

At this point, the CDC just being petulant.

Anything they present in trial will be tainted by the disgraced NIH.  They have no case other then 'Because I said so!'.

If anyone can play Devil's Advocate (literally in this case :) and defend the CDC, we're all eyes.

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It's hard to negotiate when you are stuck in the sand.

Yeah, it's hard to negociate with stupid people.  I mean unless having your book cancelled is a sign of super duper smarts...is it?

The CDC is going all in because they have nothing left.

And you still haven't given any reason why the CDC is even remotely right in carrying on the farce.  Legal authority is irrelevant, they can change it any time they want.

They're all different and I do prefer NCL.  The vibe I'd describe as 'sophisticated fun'.  Carnival is just fun and I think Royal relies too much on their hard product.

13 hours ago, Eddie Wilson said:

So if one supposes a family of 4 pass all protocols to embark on a 7 night cruise,  Parents are vaccinated and 2 young kids are not, but they pass the boarding test.  Further suppose one of the children appears to develop a minor cold on day 4.  

Will they Covid test that child then and there?  No.  It will be available but I doubt anyone will actually do it.

And that's where this scenario ends.

OMG!  Terrible Parents!  Calm down Karen...

Kids get the sniffles all the time.  Multiple times.  This won't be remotely unusual before, during and after covid.  Influenza carries essentially the same risk and no one freaks out over that.  I will be no more concerned about snotty kids then I am now.  

Given the entire NIH/CDC narrative is collapsing, wonder if they'll even show for the next hearing.

19 minutes ago, broberts said:

Only one problem with your "correct" solution, almost 50% of the US population would have to be isolated in a COVID free environment.

Not even remotely close.  5% at best.

It would have taken a 10 minute check up to determine someone's fitness and risk of adverse outcome.  Carnival had it right over a year ago with their proposd Fit To Sail plan.

8 minutes ago, broberts said:

The only reason CARES Act funding would enter into a medical doctors decision of what to put on a death certificate would be if money mattered more than professional ethics and legal obligations. It seems to me that to suggest such unethical behavior one must have such a motivation in life. Hence projection.

Be careful with that.  Look, I can understand if you're not so well versed on coding procedures.  Nothing unethical about it, but doctors know how minor adjustment to treatment plans can be revenue positive and possibly benefit the patient with no downside.  Think 'just in case'.

In this case, yes, there was a finaincial incentive to include a covid diagnosis even if it may not have been material to the outcome.  With no patient risk, it's both medically ethical and legal, just a dubious beneficiary.

7 minutes ago, NightOne said:

From the Fauci e-mails. Apparently at least one person communicated to Fauci about the right way to handle Covid-19:

 

 

On Mar 14, 2020 , at 12: 19 PM, Mike Bett s (b)(6)>w rote: -------

 

I wanted to convey an idea I had with regard to the coronavirus. It seems to me that trying to contain the virus as we are doing at present will be futile. Since the virus can be present for many days without a person having any symptoms, you would literally need to test everyone at the same time to determine who has it--an impossible task .

 

I have a different thought. We know that the virus is especially dangerous for the old and/or immunosuppressed. IMO we should be focusing all of our efforts on keeping that group from becoming infected. To do so that group should be encouraged to self-isolate, to limit their social interactions and other groups should be instructed to avoid them. Sort of a reverse-quarantine idea. All testing would be done within those groups and all groups would also be encouraged to continue with the hygienic suggestions they've already received .

 

The problem right now is that the media has created a panic. Last night my wife and I went to the local Whole Foods and many of the shelves were empty and healthy younger people were wearing masks .

 

The message is not getting out that the virus is almost solely dangerous to the elderly and immunosuppressed. [Why aren't the demographics being released? That in itself could calm many people.] With my suggestion, exposures to them would be diminished, significantly reducing the number of deaths, as well as NIH-000624 the potential impact on hospitals. Any person outside of that group that was severely affected could be identified and treated. Quarantining otherwise healthy people outside of those groups who finally demonstrate symptoms--like the NBA players--is ridiculous. They are likely to get the sniffles and have also already spread the virus. As long as they're not spreading it to the endangered group we should not worry about it.

 

In sum, we need to isolate the vulnerable and realize that the mortality rate for people outside of that group is likely lower than the flu. Of course, while this occurs we are working on finding treatments and vaccines. But sending home workers who have next to no likelihood of being significantly impacted by this virus is ridiculous. The virus hits hardest the old and infirm, two groups that are most likely NOT to even be in the workforce!

 

To me, this solution is a lot simpler than what is being tried right now and is much more likely of success. To everyone besides the endangered group this virus is literally less dangerous than the flu. There is no reason that anyone outside of the endangered group should have any concern at all and we need to make that clear. Please let me know what you think.

 

Sincerely ,

 

Michael Betts

 

To which Fauci replied:

 

From:

Sent: t, 14 Mar 2020 13:15:38 -0400

To: (b)(6) Sa Mike Betts Subject:

Re: Coronavirus response

 

Thank you for your note.

A.S. Fauci

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

So in mid March 2020 Fauci was given the correct way to handle Covid-19 but he chose a complete different path. 

 

and some of you keep worshipping this clown

I just want to make it clear to everyone...I am not Michael Bretts.  Sorry if there is any confusion.  :)

Though I am shipping him a pallet of Pappy Van Winkle right now.

Be aware, a lot of changes get labeled 'cost cutting' just because they're a cruiser's favorite thing.

Complimentary Room Service is something I was surprised lasted as long as it did.  It's hugely expensive to offer and benefited relatively few people.  I'm fine with the Service Fee so I'm not subsidizing something I don't use.

Of course, if they cut trivia games to reduce headcount, I'd be leading an insurrection!

I can tell you about me.  ~12 hrs difference I find easy to adjust to quickly by just not sleeping on the journey.  So when it's finally night time, preferrably on arrival, I can sleep regardless.

6 hrs eastbound is the worst.

14 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I respectfully disagree. When a cruise is advertised as 100% vaccinated crew and passengers, the cruise probably will not require the safety protocols of a cruise with un-vaccinated passengers and crew that does not meet the 95/98% requirements. 
 

Given this scenario of advertised 100% vaccinated  crew and passengers, those people who boarded the ship with fake vaccination documentation, puts everyone on board who is not vaccinated and to a much lesser degree, all the vaccinated population, at risk. 
 

Not to mention the damage that will be caused to the cruise industry as a whole if it were to be reported that un-vaccinated people boarded a ship using forged vaccination documentation and then caused a Covid outbreak on board. What a field day the media will have with that., not to mention what the CDC may have to implement. 

Interesting point.  I would expect the cruise lines to change their messaging on this for liability reasons.

I think Royal was the only one to really advertise 'Fully Vax'd Cruise' with Odyseey but now that's scrubbed.

A more deflective branding, like "CDC Approved" works for the easily fooled and is substantially meaningless.

This includes the thread topic of vax cards.  The CDC guidelines for this are...flexible shall we say.

1 minute ago, cured said:

Can't answer the question, huh? 

 

Excuse me, but you are the one who went off on a tangent that covid deaths are inflated due to the profitability of the Cares Act.

 

What does that have to do with vaccine passports?

You didn't ask a question.  Well, sure, it was a side chat about recording outcomes...side chats happen all the time...and?  As for tangents...like India or Peru?  I'm not aware of any cruise lines working to embarke passengers there.

If you ask a question, I will answer it.

5 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

I guess there is no sense looking into anything new to resolve a very important problem.

 

Maybe you or others can come up with something that would fit in and be compatible with fairly well established programs all around the world.

And there we have it, it's just not an "important problem".  Because not enough people care about the outcome.  You can fret about that all you want, but it won't change anything.

If you want to patronize exclusively Excelsior Pass establishments, that's your choice.  But I would be shocked if you actually found one, outside Brooklyn or the Upper West Side. :)

Our parks are open and mostly mask free all on the honor system and people are just fine with that.  So if Super Virtue Coffee wants to build a virtual wall you need a passport to get through (hmm....yeah, about that...) fine, but the Starbucks in Port of Entry will still server more guests in a day no mask, no proof.

And, just to keep you up on things, IATA is working on a GDS integrated verification system to support visa/entry requirements.  But realistically, this isn't much more than what's already happening through APIS and similar schemes.

4 minutes ago, cured said:

India, Brazil, and Peru get CARES Act funding? Wow, didn't realize all their excess deaths are also faked. How do you explain their way over normal deaths, so high they are resorting to mass graves and cremation.  Oh wait, they are causing excess deaths and claiming they are all covid for the CARES Act funding.

 

Nobody seems to want to explain what is happening in the rest of the world. That is conveniently ignored so the alt-right group think of bad government, this is a scam, covid is not real, it is over reaction, can perpetuate.

Would love to have you in the discussion by it seems there is a lot you have to catch up on first.

I don't recall anyone claming deaths were faked so please review the rest of the thread so we can discuss the relevant stats, dimensions and policy changes.

We are all (I should hope) well aware of what's happening globally, but fradulent vax cards are mostly relevant to the United States and cruises originating here or near by.

2 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

DUMB and how did you make that judgement? Please inform me, and not with another's opinion.

 

ARMOK IS A VIDEO GAME OF SOME KIND, ARMONK is where in NEW YORK IBM is located.

 

I live in upstate NY and know where I.B.M. is located and I Grew UP in Brooklyn and Brooklyn Heights so don't hand me that garbage,

WHS,,,, Put some words to the letters and maybe your response would make more sense.

Oh, you make me laugh.  A typo....I must be a Russian agent....ayayay!  Sure, I can believe you grew up in BH.

I described the primary reason why it's just dumb.  No business is going to risk a revenue opportunity over this voluntary scheme.  Especially when non-residents, like people from Europe and other distant lands like NJ and CT, can't use it.

Can you explain how this is such a brilliant, groundbreaking, tip-of-the-spear system and why we should expect the entire global community to be deploying it next week?  Even California isn't trying this and you can bet Google or Facebook offered to do it for free (and totally not to benefit themselves).

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

Projection? 🙄

Of...sorry, that makes no sense.  You are aware of CARES Act funding for covid treatment?

13 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Glad you have judged it to be completely unworkable.

 

I would like to know WHY you say that and WHY THIS OR A LIKE PROGRAM couldn't include States other than New York?  

 

As far as the boys at ARMOK and virtue dens of Brooklyn Heights and the UWS??????????????

 

 I have no idea as to what you are talking about.

Yes, because looking at it critically, it's just dumb.  Seems everyone else has concluded the same thing, the UK the mose recent prominent example.

People don't care enough to make it worthwhile and the second a business realizes they're leaving revenue on the table, it's gone, over, done with.

IBM, the developers of this system, is based in Armok and no doubt well connected.  I guess you've never been to BH or the UWS.  Sorry, too much to explain.

3 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

The #1 item on a death certificate is what kills you today. If you are living with your co- morbidities, then get Covid and die, Covid is #1 

This is what many jurisdictions are changing when reporting outcome.  Hence the debate on 'from' and 'with'.

It's pretty sketchy to list covid as the primary cause when other obvious factors are present.  I won't even mention the financial inducement to list covid as primary...oh, I guess I just did.

7 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Are you familiar with the New York Excelsior Passport and how it works ?

I am now.  The boys in Armok are happy with the $$$ I'm sure.

Great for graft, but completly unworkable.  Non-residents aren't eligible?  Pointless in the city and I'll bet rural/upstate folks are laughing...if they still live there.

This scheme will be limited to the virtue dens of Brooklyn Heights and the UWS.

7 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

Please explain how there are 700,000 deaths in the last 16 moths in excess of statistically normal for that time period. 

Another scarey, but inactionable statistic.  And something I was not attempting to address.

I was demonstrating how blindly dismissing something 'because fox' perpetuates a misinfomed population.

As for 'excess deaths', yes, people died from covid and attempting to corned people as 'deniers' is silly and irrational.

Excess deaths is function of time.  It will take years to determine the actual impact.  We know that in many cases, covid merely accelerated a negative outcome due to other, very often preventable, conditions.  This is why loss due solely to covid is exeedingly rare.

American Diner is NCL's version of Johnny Rockets or maybe Red Robin.  It's a la carte though the prices aren't outrageous.

O'Sheehans/The Local are pretty much the same thing culinary wise.  Bar food and such.  The decore is what is wildly different.

Flamingo cafe on Getaway was the best.  I can go to Margaritaville anytime and there's one in practically every port now.

8 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

This sounds like something From Fox.

And that, children, is how people stay willfully misinformed.

Search 'covid death definition' and you'll find plenty of shenanigans around what constitutes a covid death.  Jurisdictions have in fact been changing their definitions of cause.  Some make sense, some...well...

The words to look for are 'with', 'from' and 'related'. 

20 hours ago, coffeebean said:

It is very easy to obtain immunization records. I'm a Florida resident and I know for sure, as of today, that Florida does have immunization records for their residents.

Sure, but....there is no way to verify in the real-time necessary to support any kind of 'passport' scenario.

Showing your vax recs is still nothing more than looking at a piece of paper.

1 hour ago, mianmike said:

 

Curious, what do you think Del Rio did so much better than the other cruise line CEOs that made a 1/3 of what Del Rio made? 

 

I find it ironic when people act as if CEOs have a duty to look lookout for shareholders interests except when it comes to diluting stock via stock options for Management.  "Stock options are different, it's free money that doesn't count."  Only salary counts.  

 I have no opinion on that and it doesn't matter.  Executive compensation isn't based on other companies relative performance performance. He just negotiated a better deal with the NCLH board than the others.

 I haven't seen any indication that new stock was issued for their compensation. Lots of companies hold positions in their own shares for just such purposes.