jtwind

Interesting that they could fly back to the US after testing positive.  Is it a MedJet kind of situation?

From Harvard Medical site (read last paragraph):

Antigen tests

How is it done? A nasal or throat swab.

Where can you get these tests? At a hospital, a doctor’s office or at home (the FDA has authorized a home antigen test that requires no prescription).

What does the test look for? This test identifies protein fragments (antigens) from the virus.

How long does it take to get results? The technology involved is similar to a pregnancy test or a rapid strep test, with results available in minutes.

What about accuracy? False negative results tend to occur more often with antigen tests than with molecular tests. This is why antigen tests are not favored by the FDA as a single test for active infection. Because antigen testing is quicker, less expensive, and requires less complex technology to perform than molecular testing, some experts recommend repeated antigen testing as a reasonable strategy. As with the molecular test, the false positive rate of antigen testing should be close to zero.

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, that would be a very bad scenario, since that would show that there is no reliable verification of vaccination.  What the incident has shown is the process works.  The CDC and the cruise lines always knew there would be cases onboard, whether 100% vaccinated or not.  What is important to the CDC is that the process (the procedures and protocols) to prevent these cases from spreading to others, worked.  Quarantine of the positive cases, contact tracing using CCTV and facial recognition, testing of those identified as close contacts, and negative results on all of these, and finally negative testing of all passengers upon disembarking.  Further, isolation of the positive cases ashore as per the local government and quarantine before travel home.  That is the process, and it worked.  No spread was found.  That is the goal.

I disagree.  If it was found that these two lied about vaccination, the news would be all over it.  Just release a statement, true or not, saying something like 'they could face up to 10 years in prison', and watch what happens.

Is the contact tracing criteria used for this cruise published anywhere?

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

Can anyone confirm what kind of testing is being done?  As a passenger I would be far more comfortable with the PCR than Antigen aka Rapid Test which tends to have more false positives.

Could you post a source for this please?

12 hours ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

Cruise Habit on twitter just reported that all but 70 guests have had their tests done and there have been no additional covid cases. In my view, this is a big win for vaccinated cruises. 

Wait for it.  I think the normal incubation time is 3-6 days.  So, negative today doesn't mean negative tomorrow in this case.

10 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I wish people would stop accusing these two passengers of lying about their vaccinations/falsifying their cards.  Is it possible that happened?  Yes it is not without a possibility.  But there is no evidence (at least so far) to suggest that this is the case.  I don't know about where everyone on these boards is coming from but here in the US a person is innocent until proven guilty.  If it turns out to be the case, fine, criticize then.  But for now let's wait until the facts are in.  We all remember what facts are, right?

I haven't noticed anybody accusing the 2 people.  But as folks who want to see the cruise industry come back successfully, faked vaccinations would probably be the best case scenario.

9 hours ago, Roz said:

I hope they re-tested the passengers, because false positives are possible.  Maybe they got vaccinated recently and that's what triggered the positive result?

The reliable sources that I've read say that there is no way that the vaccine will make one test positive.

Unless something has changed, false negatives are way, way, way more common than false positives.  So, why cruise lines are accepting a single negative test after one has tested positive is beyond me.

Best case scenario would be to find out these 2 weren't really vaccinated.

6 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

If you are identified as being a close contact to someone who tested positive, Celebrity will pay for flights only if you booked them through Celebrity Air. If you booked on your own, they will cover costs up until the point you needed to fly, which you would have to pay. 

Is Celebrity's definition of close contact in print anywhere?

2 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

 It takes 10/14 days to develop.  It was a 7 day cruise.

I think you meant to say CAN take up to 10/14 days to develop.  Last I checked, the normal is 3 to 5 days.

On 6/7/2021 at 12:43 PM, memoak said:

I was afraid you were talking about capital punishment 

I thought it was going to be a thread about people caught boarding with a fake vaccination card.

Wow!  I never new the CDC had any control in Scotland.

57 minutes ago, Dukefan said:

Jtwind - I am still trying to understand what you are doing at home that is above and beyond what Viking is doing on it’s cruises, You so negative on Vikings process, please let us know so we can all learn from your expertise.

I'm not negative on the entire Viking process.  Just the part about clearing positive test with a single negative tests.  

8 hours ago, FoggyEthan said:

There is reason for it. The tests can detect even truly minute amounts of RNA from the virus. But the tests don't distinguish live virus from some tiny amounts of residue from an exposure you had two weeks ago. The RNA can last a long time after you were exposed to the virus, and (if you're vaccinated) you were probably never contagious at any point. If your body is primed to fight the virus, then you can "have Covid" but so limited as to not be contagious.

 

And yet the test may detect it. I believe the idea is this: if you are really contagious, the test will come up positive EVERY time. So if it is positive once and then negative, there could be lots of reasons, but you are almost certainly not contagious.

 

I hope this helps.

Hey Ethan, do you have a source for this?  I'm not saying your post is not true, but the sources I've read say that the vaccinations CAN NOT cause a false positive.  I'm curios about this, as we all should be.

The problem cruise lines face is that, if folks test positive during or at the end of a cruise, it will be obvious that they got the virus while on the cruise.  I'm not saying that these Viking cruises aren't relatively safe, I'm saying that, in order to avoid undue bad press, they should have taken more steps to be sure that the positive was indeed false.  If it wasn't, things could get bad.

1 hour ago, FoggyEthan said:

When I said "help" I didn't mean that I was hoping it would change your mind. Only that it would add more facts to the discussion.

 

We're in an uncertain moment, and everyone has to decide for themselves what is "safe enough". The science guides, but does not provide a single conclusion.

 

Personally I'd rather that no one be allowed on a plane or even in an airport unless they are vaccinated (or previously had it or are ineligible for vaccine). But, oh well.

I hear ya.  And like I said earlier, I'm hoping for a successful return of the cruise industry as much as anyone else.  But quarantine them for at least a day, and do a third test for the tiebreaker.

I worked at a place that had an inaccurate test for one of their products.  I saw these clowns test over and over again until they got the answer they wanted, then stopped testing.

Sorry.  Doesn't really help, because it could also be the case I outlined.  You won't know.

Be careful Iceland and, Viking, in general.  Trying to avoid unnecessarily quarantining a few folks at the risk doing more harm wouldn't be good for the rest of us.

All of these tests are notoriously bad at detecting a true case of covid within a few days of exposure.  The virus count has to be above some lower detectable limit before showing positive.  As a result, false negatives are way more likely than false positives.

I want to see cruising get back to normal as much as the next guy.  To be on the safe side, I would quarantine that person, and the people in their party, in the designated area for a few days, and test them a few more times to make sure that they don't develop the virus.

2 hours ago, Dukefan said:

Jtwind - has everyone you have contact with today been vacinnated and tested?   Ease up man, what is happening in the Viking bubble is significantly safer than the life everyone except hermits are experiencing outside the Viking bubble.   Is it foolproof - no.   I can't think of any environment we have as foolproof against the virus.  But I believe your odds are significantly better of not getting the virus in the Viking bubble than it is as I go about my life at home especially non where I can go into stores and not really know whether the people I'm passing that are not wearing a mask are vacinated or not.

How are you living your life today where you feel Viking plan is more danagerous to you than you are at home?  Just wondering?

Why test at all if they're not going to do it right?

18 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

I heard during a cruise Club House that they delayed departure because of a positive initial test but a second test was negative so they left port.  Not sure if that is related to your positive test or not. 

Kinda reckless that the positive results are questioned, but not the negative tests.

There seems to be a general theme that those who want to quote numbers about how safe one will be once vaccinated are the same ones who refuse to believe the numbers about how minimal the vaccine side affects are.

Here in the US ,we shouldn't even be having this discussion.  Get vaccinated folks.

On 6/5/2021 at 11:07 AM, alandkate said:

Has anyone been told that if they book a tour they can only book the tour through the cruise line because of COVID restrictions?

 

Yes.  It's just really hard to find out if this rule is being pushed by the cruise line to protect its passengers or by the local governments to protect their citizens.

23 hours ago, travelingman said:

The requirement to only take the cruise excursions is to keep everyone in the "bubble".

That's what Viking is saying.  Their way of forming a bubble is flawed, though, as it relies on pre-boarding tests that won't show positives if the exposure occurs within 48 of the test.  So, everyone will have been on an unsupervised excursion before they get on the ship.