BarbarianPaul

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We had posted a blog on the HAL board during that cruise.  Lots of “supply chain” issues like running out of black tea, all kinds of sparkling water, etc.  on board accounting problems became quite annoying after 11 separate overcharges.  Lincoln Center Stage was discontinued after 2 weeks, no production shows, all live entertainment ceased by 10:45 or 11, etc etc.  The ship seemed under staffed and just getting a drink could take 20 min during busy times.  And then, we had a Hotel Manager who seemed to hide in her office and would not meet/talk to passengers.

 

Bottom line for us (5* Mariners) was that although we still enjoyed the cruise, we realized that other cruise lines are a

much better value with higher quality.  Am on Seabourn now where all is quite fine 😋

Thanks for the additional info. We’re four star mariners, and this is our first post pandemic cruise, on a credit we’ve had for what seems like forever. I hope HA is getting their act together.

On 8/15/2023 at 10:32 AM, Hlitner said:

At one time we would have agreed that HAL was a Premium product.  Based on our most recent 6 week cruise on the Westerdam (Mar-May) we now consider HAL among the bottom tier of mass market lines.  
 

Hank

Yes…please give more details. We’re getting on the Zuiderdam in a month for a 10 day Canada cruise, and your thoughts will be helpful. 
 

We were on the Westerdam right before the pandemic and the food was awful. I’m hoping it’s gotten better.

Hi everyone!

My wife and I decided to splurge and book a “Courtyard Penthouse With Large Balcony” in The Haven on The Norwegian Joy. I’m wondering if anyone has ever stayed in this cabin. It’s less expensive than a courtyard penthouse with balcony, and I don’t quite understand why. It is at the end of a hallway, but I’m not sure there’s access outside.

If anyone has stayed in the Haven on the Norwegian Joy, I’m hoping to get some insight on not only my cabin, but also the Haven experience. And a few other questions while I’m posting! 1) Do we need to make specialty restaurant reservations at all before booking, or can we just rely on the concierge? 2) The Haven restaurant apparently has a fixed menu. Do the lack of choices ever get boring? 

2 hours ago, Pcardad said:

Yep - sry - brain dead today working on a little project.

 

Millions of dollars is small potatoes though in the scheme of cruise profitability. My tiny group drops over a million a year on Regent alone.

 

But this is probably not based on reality - just a little fun. Although, tbh, there is absolutely no certainty (yet) that this will have a happy ending. There is no vaccine (yet) and no certainty that immunity will be permanent (yet) and no idea of long-term effects/dangers.

Even if immunity isn’t permanent, its not the end of the world if it becomes a once a year flu shot kind of thing. In terms of long term effects/dangers, I think there’s going to be at least some form of leap of faith involved, unless you want to wait years. And of course that strategy involves risk as well.

7 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

The fun part is in the thinking about it...not whether or not it actually happens.

 

If we restrict conversations to things that are actually going to happen, this is going to be a very, very quiet forum for a long time.

Good point! So, back to this Bermuda thing. If the port wasn’t big enough, but the capacity stayed reduced, they could always ferry passengers out for embarkation. Supplies as well if necessary. 

I think if the cruise lines tried any harebrained scheme to somehow bypass CDC restrictions, like trying to sail out of Bermuda (which we all know will never happen anyway), they’d find themselves in a heap o’ trouble. The CDC would just reaffirm their recommendation that cruising was unsafe, that US citizens would be putting themselves at risk by cruising. Not all of us would listen, but I would bet a good enough percentage would, enough to make the scheme unprofitable.

There was just a study released that you are twice as likely to contract what we don’t want to contract by dining indoors. So why are any of us clamoring to live in a confined space with hundreds and hundreds of people for a week or two at this particular time, no matter what the “safeguards”?

I guess you could just book some enormous apartment sized suite and sit in it for two weeks, but that doesn’t sound like too much fun. And even then, can you really trust the air circulation systems?
 

46 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

Exactly. It's everywhere and the spikes continue to occur all around the world as we open things up a bit. France just had their highest 1 day numbers for positive COVID cases. With schools opening up the cases are increasing. I believe we are a long ways off from the start up of cruises in a meaningful way. 

I think you’re right. The cruise lines are now practically begging the CDC to let them open up, even though the protocols are still basically untested. And I think the CDC has not forgotten how many lines continued to sail at the start of the outbreak. Granted, it’s debatable whether or not they should have stopped earlier, but there are arguments that fall both ways. And the fact that the cruise lines have been skirting US labor laws for years and years probably doesn’t help them either.

The other issue is that I fear when cruising ultimately resumes the protocols will initially be draconian enough to undermine the entire experience. Being forced to take an excursion just to get off the ship could be a deal breaker for us.

We’re all bombarded these days by various cruise lines’ typically misleading emails and offers,  that to me seem surprisingly unwilling to acknowledge that they’ll actually have to lower prices to get people back onboard. And if you’re using a future cruise credit, won’t you be paying close to full price?

On 8/3/2020 at 7:55 AM, pappy1022 said:

I absolutely believe this to be true. COVID-19 is a virus strain and thus it will mutate and change it’s composition and attack methods. We have seen this pattern all through history with viruses. This constant mutation is one reason why it is so difficult to get the right vaccine in place for flu season. At best it is 60% effective, at worst it is only 10% Effective and many people don’t even bother getting a flu shot. We are also seeing everywhere in the world that opening up places where people congregate isn’t working well. And unlike the flu, many people don’t look or feel sick but they are spreading the virus. I would expect that just like the flu shot, many folks won’t get an COVID vaccine shot. I believe we are in this modified state of normalcy for a long time.

With all due respect, you don’t appear to be a professional virologist. Of course, neither am I, but having read more than that Washington Post article I am aware of additional information regarding these matters. 1) The virus doesn’t appear to be mutating rapidly. 2) No one knows what the effectiveness percentages of the vaccines in development will be. But the general thinking is that if they surpass 50%, it could very well be enough to promote herd immunity. 3) True, a lot of folks forego the flu shot...at their own risk. Say what you will, it’s effective in controlling outbreaks.

My issue is that it’s very easy to fall into an uninformed doom and gloom mindset. It sells newspapers and boosts website views. I don’t want to be unjustifiably optimistic either, but there’s also a good deal of more positive thinking out there, from people who know more than we do.

1 hour ago, GOARMY said:

A bit of  history  as to "throw said passenger off the ship". 

 

While not an exact historical parallel (history does not repeat itself); but close enough (but, history tends to rhyme).  

 

Recall several years' back when cruise lines such as Regent and Seabourn got  serious about smoking restrictions--specifically in Staterooms.  Like--No.  Full-stop. 

 

At the beginning of one Regent cruise--entered our Suite and encountered  very strong odor de' cigarette.  Not from our Suite, but from either fore or aft of us.   Had to open the veranda sliding door; turn-up the air conditioner full-blast; and alert our Suite Attendant.   He advised taking appropriate action which would be one warning only.  Smell went away--for two days.  

 

Two days later,  same smell.  Another  report to Attendant and Hotel Manager. Result:  Passengers were removed from ship at the next Port.  I don't know if folks from other contiguous Suites complained.  Hotel Manager reported back to advise of action.  And, another bottle of champagne--and a box of chocolates to our Suite with a  nice letter thanking us for reporting.

 

Second situation:  Passenger  getting into a physical altercation with another passenger  or Crew member.   I saw the push-shove by  an obviously drunk passenger escalate into a punch.  Recall the spark  was  dispute  over a deck chair.  Crew intervened.  Reported what I witnessed,  and  there were others  who saw same.

 

Result:  Offender restricted to cabin; then removed from ship at the next Port.  This time, a letter from the Captain detailing action taken. Can't recall if another bottle of champagne accompanied the letter.  But, on Regent,  Silversea,  Seabourn, and Crystal--this has never been a problem (obtaining champagne).  That letter also included information that the offender was banned from further cruising on that Line.  Can't  recall (again) if this was Regent or Seabourn.     

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

Great history! A couple was thrown off our New Zealand/Australia cruise last fall for breaking quarantine when diagnosed with Norovirus, but, alas, they left behind a massive outbreak and a ship in code red for the next 12 days.

I think it will be quite a while before the CDC allows any cruising. They’d get blamed for subsequent outbreaks, which are bound to happen, there’d be another shutdown,  and the industry would be in an even worse position than it is now.

4 hours ago, Got2Cruise said:

As far as pax not wearing masks. It should be stated in the cruise contract exactly what the mandates are and the repercussions if one does not adhere. More than one US flight has been returned because a pax refused to wear a mask. 

The problem is that one repercussion would be to throw said passenger off the ship. But I doubt if any cruise line would do that after one instance. So it would probably have to be a multiple offender who has already had time to possibly spread anything he or she already has throughout all the public areas.

Totally agreed. But does anyone think that they won’t see a single person walking down a corridor not wearing a mask? That every single passenger will adhere, without fail, 100% of the time, 24 hours a day, to very strict but absolutely necessary protocols? 

On 8/4/2020 at 9:00 PM, Travelcat2 said:

Paul, my issue with your post is stating "I think that it's delusional to think any of the mitigation measures being discussed will provide a truly acceptable level of safety".  If someone were calling you delusional, you may react in the same way.  This is why I feel that those of us that are willing to sail when the CDC approves the protocols are being kinder than those that do not want to cruise.  I respect you or any other person that does not feel that cruising for you is right until there is a vaccine and feel that our decision to cruise also needs to also be respected.

 

In terms of the ships sailing now, at least a couple of them (have not checked them all) are distancing at the equivalent of 4'9".  Testing done in the U.S. have shown that the minimum distance between people should be 6'.  Many/most of us have seen how far a sneeze or cough travels with and without a mask.  Less than 6' works if you are wearing a mask but if you are not, some particles in the air went slightly over 6'.  So, if you are dining in a restaurant and have your mask off to eat, as long as the tables are far enough apart, you should be fine.

 

I'm finding that wearing a face shield is so comfortable that I would have no problem wearing it during dinner (obviously when I'm not eating).  Some restaurants are requiring masks/face shields for their patrons when they are seated but are waiting for their food.  The bottom line for the restaurants that have opened in our city is that they all remain open and no cases of the virus have been traced back to them.

 

 

It’s hard to gauge the effectiveness of these protocols when we read about them not working. That said, the German cruises to nowhere have not yet had any issues, so that’s a good sign. 
 

One other thing worries me, though. There are quite a few folks out there not willing to put on a mask, and we all know that’s a major contributor to the current resurgence. So how do we make sure the protocols, still unproven, are respected and followed? All it takes is one bad apple,  and we’ve all seen arrogant, inappropriate behavior from passengers who feel entitled. We faced a norovirus outbreak on an Australian/New Zealand cruise last for that very reason.

My phraseology aside, I don’t think it’s unkind to debate whether or not we should get onboard a ship. But one thing is certain. We don’t have enough information yet to make a truly informed decision. 

1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

Yes - the announcement may only affect U.S. sailings but it likely should include the world.  The ships that are sailing now seem to be doing quite poorly.  In today's news, Sea Dream Yacht Club had a case of Covid onboard.  The protocols that I have seen for some of the foreign ships are not to the standards that U.S. ships (using that term only to refer to ships that sail in U.S. waters) that will be sailing once the CDC gives approval.  Still, it is making cruising look bad once again.

 

Note:  Masks are not required on some current sailings and distancing is 4.9 feet rather than the suggested minimum of 6.0 feet.  The only thing that can be learned from these ships is that the protocols were either not strict enough or not enforced.

There have now been four ships with COVID cases. 

https://www.travelagewest.com/Travel/Cruise/Make-That-Four-Steps-Back-for-Cruising-Now?utm_source=eNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=eltrBreakingNews&oly_enc_id=8231D5712201H5C

Innacurate, and misguidedly dismissive, to say that the protocols were not strict enough or not enforced. Apparently on one of the ships all passengers tested negative, but upon retesting one of them did indeed test positive. That’s troublesome. Perhaps there’s another lesson here: the protocols aren’t yet ready for prime time.

Regardless of whether or not some of these sailings fall under CDC jurisdiction, you can bet someone over there is noticing. So the more these kind of issues pop up, the longer it will take for any of us to get back on a cruise ship. In that sense these problems affect the entire cruise industry, and appear almost self inflicted.

Perhaps CLIA should be modifying and expanding protocols, and suggesting more creative solutions beyond the “usual suspects” of reduced capacity, pre testing, and serving passengers in the buffet. Are they currently being proactive enough? Are cruise lines installing the best air filtration systems money can buy? Should passengers now be required to have two tests prior to boarding?  
 

We should be learning from these early fails, not just blaming them on incompetence.
 

Personally, I absolutely love cruising, but I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think social distancing can be an effective deterrent, even with reduced capacity, on a cruise ship. All it takes is one cough or sneeze, from one passenger, maybe in a dining room, and the entire ship is in jeopardy. At this point, why would anyone willingly head into such a confined environment?

I do believe there will be an effective vaccine, and sooner than we think. Heaven knows I’m now sitting on a fortune of FCCs, and I look forward to using them. But certainly not now, or any time soon. I think it’s delusional to think any of the mitigation measures being discussed will provide a truly acceptable level of safety.  No doubt there are a bunch of Hurtigruten passengers and crew who will agree with me. And I don’t think the CDC is anywhere close to letting any of our ships sail.

Rather than having their ships sit idle for the next year, I’m wondering if cruise lines will move their ships overseas and sail out of international ports only, away from the CDC’s supervision. That said, not sure that strategy would be beneficial in the long run if it engendered the CDC’s ire.

17 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The problem with the organ was and still continues to this day, it only plays at certain times.  Those times are not publicized to the guests.  Have no idea why.  When one is in the Atrium and the Organ starts to play:  it is neat!

My wife and I were aboard for 33 days, and never heard it once! I thought it was just a prop. And for the most part we like it better than the newer ships. But the cabins could still use a refresh, and I wonder, as many have remarked, if it’s days are numbered.

10 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

So you won't be cruising on that ship again..

I don’t like the organ either, but if they ever updated the cabins and showed the ship a little love, I’d totally cruise on it again. I love the smaller size and cozy vibe.

Re the Zandaam’s organ, I understand  those who think it’s quirky and charming in its own way. But I don’t agree.
 

I think it’s creepy and funereal, and looks like some left over prop from a roadshow of The Phantom Of The Opera. And it’s not some great example of old world craftsmanship either, since it’s made of cheap plaster!  It also communicates a message that the cruise line is old, stodgy, and completely out of step with the times. My wife and I, though, have really fond memories of the ship, and quite enjoyed our 33 days on it a few years ago, on both an Antarctic and Brazil cruise, back to back. We had an amazing time, and loved the size and intimacy of the ship.

For us, though, the decor was hopelessly dated, and it didn’t look like HA had ever spent a nickel to bring it up to date. 

What exactly does reciprocity with Celebrity mean? Can we actually use our HA L credit with them??

6 hours ago, JeriGail said:

Thanks for the recommendation.  I watched Rick's video on Lisbon and have been looking at his Lisbon book , but will wait to buy it until I know for sure that we're cruising in December.

I super fun day trip is to take the train to Sintra. It’s a beautiful small medieval town with the stunningly beautiful national palace, as well as medieval ruins on the hill over looking it. It’s an easy half hour train trip from the train station in Lisbon.

It was the highlight of our pre cruise visit a few years ago.

Our Canada/Greenland cruise on the Rotterdam next August is kaput, alas. But I think the cruise line right now has more serious issues about service, quality, and identity. Our most recent cruise pre pandemic on the Westerdam was substandard on almost all fronts...bad food, no entertainment, nothing happening onboard, rundown, outdated cabins, poor service. We sailed pretty much for the itineraries, and tolerated pretty much everything else.
So I’m not waxing nostalgic about anything HAL related. I think the line needs fresh blood and reinvention. Hoping the new guy has some vision and isn’t a corporate bean counter.

3 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Perhaps you should have read the Crystal, Seabourn and Silversea board before posting here.  If you read the threads on refunds on those boards, you might change your tune.  They most definitely did not “get the job done”.

 

As far as Celebrity (a premium cruise line - in their words - not mine), they canceled our cruise one week and sent bills for the remainder of the payment the next week and the week after that.  Fortunately they only have our deposit that I do not expect to see again.  The deposit was only $200 and we do not typically throw away money but do not want to deal with Celebrity at this point.

Well, $200 is $200, so I sincerely hope you get it back! But perhaps you should be as forgiving to the Celebrity employees, during this difficult time, as you’ve been to Regent’s, no?

In any event, glad to hear the cruise lines are getting “caught up.” 

On 7/3/2020 at 1:22 PM, Travelcat2 said:

Just read this on the Regent Facebook page.  I wasn't sure where to post it but decided on one of the "too many" refund threads would work.  

 

:posts on supplier groups and closed TA Facebook groups. The posts are painful to read, but here on this page, it pains me the most. I not only sail Regent with my family, I am also a travel agent and sell it. And, I sell a ton of it. Why, because the brand is so superior to others, those that sail Regent are some of my most liked humans and friends and the people that work behind the scenes have a love for it like no other. Let me tell you a little about the people in the corporate office. Their pay has been slashed. Their staff has been cut. The remaining folks are on four-day work weeks, yet still working six days a week FROM HOME, while taking care of their autistic and/or challenged children, sick spouse, elderly parents, kids with activities and no camps in which to send them to, etc. all while trying to keep up with the bills and the demands of their job. They still show up EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR YOU, despite the daily berating from customers and agents alike. NOBODY is singling anyone out. There is no conspiracy to not refund anyone or change a future cruise credit policy because they don’t like your last name. We are in a WORLD CRISIS and everyone is doing their best, including me as an agent, mother, friend, daughter. We need more positivity, hope, sharing of dreams, unity and understanding as we navigate these unprecedented times. I hope you’ll agree and focus on the things we all love about Regent and look forward to.

Regardless of whether virtually every Regent employee is a candidate for sainthood, I’m kind of flabbergasted that this refund discussion is still valid, that there are still folks who have not yet received their own money back.

I’d been holding off deciding whether my wife and I should go on a transatlantic Barcelona-Ft. Lauderdale cruise on Celebrity’s new ship, the Apex, in October. The uncertainty about Barcelona, our general unwelcomeness in the EU, and totally necessary but still unpleasant onboard precautions I’ve been reading about for cruises,  pretty much decided it for me, so I requested a refund a week and a half ago, since I’d paid for the whole thing last winter. 
The credit popped up a couple days ago. I forget if Celebrity is classified as either “premium” or “premium plus,” but I’ve been reminded many times on these boards that it’s not a “luxury” line. Their employees are all on furlough too, and no doubt all have their own personal issues and challenges, but it seems to me like they still got the job done.

Sorry for above blank post!

One other point of discussion. A phrase came up in another post referring to the “HAL experience.” At this point I’m not exactly sure what that even is. Nothing of interest happens on the ships. The food isn’t particularly good. The cruise directors and staff are all professional, but the CD’s in general are somewhat humorless and generic, and nowhere near as lively as their competitors.

My wife and I enjoy the low key vibe, but that’s more related to a lack of anything happening on the ships, which was really noticeable on our last cruise. The music walk is fun to walk by,  but it’s never a destination for us, and personally I don’t think it’s the anywhere near the game changer HA hoped it would be. 
 

We enjoy the four star perks, and aren’t ready to abandon the line,  but we generally have a better time on Celebrity. We have fond memories of our HA cruises, but now it seems old, stodgy, boring and retro. 

22 hours ago, iancal said: