BarbarianPaul

My heart goes out to all the passengers stuck in Cambodia, and it sounds like there’s a lot of them. What bothers me the most is that HAL is not staying in contact, and seems to have washed their hands of any further responsibility once they got folks off the ship as fast as possible. But maybe it’s not true. Does anyone know if HAL has offered to assist stranded passengers? Who’s paying for their hotels?

And why does it seem that HAL is all alone in this mess, other than, of course, the Diamond Princess? Wasn’t the Crystal Serenity facing some challenges? Not sure, but I think the Seabourn Ovation was supposed to be in Hong Kong the same day as the Westerdam on Feb. 1. How did they avoid this? Or did they bypass Hong Kong?

It seems like all the passengers should be tracked down and quarantined, and at this point I’m not sure they should be allowed on planes, considering how easily this virus is spread. I know it’s a monumental pain for everyone involved, but what else can you do?

Also, since by now everyone in the frigging world knows that folks with the virus can be asymptomatic and still quite contagious, shouldn’t there have been at least some precautions taken? Does anyone know if HAL instituted, at the very minimum, condition red, usually done for noroviruses, where guests are served and not allowed to touch anything in the Lido? Was anything done onboard while the ship cruised in circles for a week?

I also feel terrible for all the passengers hearing about this, now wondering if they’re carrying the virus, waiting for the next shoe to drop. I’m not sure if anyone should be printing up those special certificates commemorating the voyage just yet, no?

1 hour ago, Viv0828 said:

 

if that is so and it's old news, what is going to happen with the feb 29 cruise of the westerdam that was going to primarily japanese ports? if the cruise happens, where will it go?

Very hard for me to believe the Feb. 29 cruise will happen in light of this news. And if, in fact, “patient zero” did spread the virus to a number of passengers who recently disembarked, I think that brings up a number of questions.

1 hour ago, Fredric22 said:

 

There is no need for these kinds of panicked posts.   500+ people have died of the seasonal flu today alone and 30,000+ people have died so far this season.  There will always be viruses, diseases, etc. around us.  Unless we wrap ourselves up in plastic wrap and stay inside our house, there will always be a risk of catching something.  

I’m inclined to agree. But in terms of Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Thailand, etc, this news will validate their decision to turn the Westerdam away, whether or not it’s actually justified, and doesn’t bode well for any more cruising in Asia this season. And now the crew could be quarantined. Ugh.
 

56 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

You say you visited Sihanoukville several years ago.  The city has changed dramatically since then -- and not for the better.  In the not-so-distant past, i.e., before 2015, it had a reputation as a backwater port with fine beaches, backpacker hangouts, and a generally lazy approach to life.  Now it's awash with unfinished and decrepit buildings (mostly Chinese-funded hotels and casinos), mountains of trash everywhere, and torn-up roads throughout the city.  Read the recent Sihanoukville reviews on Tripadvisor and Cruise Critic to see what I mean.

 

None of this has anything to do with everyday Cambodians trying to make a better life for themselves.  It has everything to do with sweetheart and unregulated development deals that the Cambodian government cut with its very large neighbor to the north.  (China prohibits casino gambling except in Macau.)  Unfortunately, Sihanoukville is paying the price for these deals.  The anger that many residents feel toward the Chinese is palpable.

 

As I said earlier, the Cambodians we met in November were all lovely people.  I wish I could say that the city of Sihanoukville is similarly lovely -- but I can't.  It's a dump.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/asia/cambodia-chinese-investment-intl-hnk/index.html 

Dave—

Sadly, what you said is very true, and quite accurate. In an effort to get away from all the trash and construction dust last month, my wife and I took a tuktuk to local Independence Beach, which we were told was beautiful. It was! We were informed that we couldn’t swim, however, because the new hotel next door (one of the few whose construction was completed), was recently charged with dumping raw sewage into the water. 
 

All that said, this obviously is no reflection on the people.

12 minutes ago, Bostonjetset said:

Is that really necessary to say?  The people of Cambodia welcomed the Westerdam when no one else in the region would. Calling their city a dump is not a very kind way to repay them for that.  I know a lot of people here in New England that would consider many other parts of the USA as “dumps“ but to call them out on a message board would not be very kind. 

Good point, but have you been there? It’s awful. 

46 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Have you read the posts from the people who were actually on board?

They were in tears as were the crew at the farewell show.

I’ve heard nothing but accolades from those that have posted here and that I know and yes, there is definitely something to commemorate.  An experience many of us will never have (nor want to) and the fortitude of the passenger and the determination of the crew to make it as enjoyable as they could under the circumstances.

Your reference to Hong Kong consistently confuses me.  Planes were still flying to Hong Kong when the ship sailed.  Hong Kong was not under warning nor advisory.

At least everyone on the Westerdam was healthy, happy and not under quarantine like the Diamond Princess.  

 

I wish them all safe, smooth and comfortable travels home.

I wish everyone safe travels home, as well. And of course I’ve read several posts praising the crew. I’m sure they did a great job.

In terms of Hong Kong, when the Westerdam both debarked and brought aboard new passengers on Feb. 1, the city was in an officially declared state of emergency. The government had closed down virtually every public gathering place, including museums, various street markets, Ocean Park, Hong Kong Disneyland, every public New Years Celebration, etc. There was also a massive influx of mainland Chinese, all of whom could have been exposed to the virus. All that was public knowledge. 

Considering that you can never be too cautious with passenger safety, perhaps HA should have had the foresight, and courage, to bypass Hong Kong. Perhaps that’s asking too much. It might very well be, but I’m not sure. And I actually love the cruise line. My wife and I have had wonderful cruises with them, many grand adventures, and will continue to do so!
 

And, despite the positive posts, I’m sure there were plenty of passengers who were upset and angered by losing almost every port.

5 hours ago, rafinmd said:

It's probably too late to make that happen.  What I would like to see them do in this and for many other occasions is create the certificates in an electronic (pdf) form that could be emailed to guests once they are back home.

 

Roy

Not sure exactly what HA would want to commemorate. Taking on 800 passengers in Hong Kong and increasing the risk of exposure to all the folks already onboard? Being turned away at every port? Having to disembark everyone in a dump?

Am certainly happy and relieved passengers are finally disembarking! But this situation is not going to go down as a high point in HA history.

7 hours ago, sndral said:

If HAL is arranging chartered flights it will be different from a normal booking. Presumably the whole plane will be filled with Westerdam passengers flying to an airport in their home country. So who gets off the ship first will most likely depend on the logistics of arranging the chartered airplanes. Once the passengers arrive in their own countries via the chartered planes I assume they’ll be able to continue to their home airports via normal bookings. 

Many years ago the FAA shut down the airline I was flying the day before I was leaving Maui, the company I’d purchased my flight through had a lot of stranded passengers on Hawaiian holiday packages and they chartered a plane to get us all home.  It happened to be a Delta plane they chartered - I’ve had a fondness for Delta ever since. 

They’re not going to be chartering planes to a bunch of different countries. They’ll probably be flying them all to Phnom Penh for connections.

I think Sihanoukville is probably about the worst possible place to debark, and, as we were told during the port talk prior to our visit on HA, is consistently ranked at the bottom of passenger ratings. The reviews are far from kind. 

That said, at least everyone is getting off! Interesting that it will take several days. Maybe that has something to do with the availability of charter planes. Considering that almost half the people have already been there on the previous cruise, I doubt if many folks are going to be happily exploring the place. I wonder how they’re going to prioritize who debarks first.

33 minutes ago, arabrab said:

"Increasingly dire"? 

 

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what that phrase means. These folks are onboard the Westerdam, apparently healthy, and will eventually land at a port that will accept them after enough time. The Thai government said that they would willingly help the ship refeul/re-supply if that was needed.  Not exactly dire given my understanding of the word.

 

These countries are doing their best to keep a potentially deadly infection from spreading further within their territories. The US plucked folks out of Wuhan and put them in quarantine in various military bases even if they showed no symptoms. Would you rather be in quarantine on a military base or floating around on Westerdam? 

Agreed...apparently all the passengers at least seem healthy enough, though any number of them might be incubating the virus. 
 

And, yes, I do totally understand why countries  are refusing to disembark passengers. 
 

All I’m saying is that if I were on the Westerdam, I would probably be somewhat demoralized that a) my cruise was cancelled, b)  the ship was turned away at almost every port we were supposed to visit, and c) so much uncertainty remains about where we would be debarking. I personally love sea days, but in this context I’m not sure I would enjoy them. I think I’d just want to get out of there and resume my life, and if my government wanted to help, I’d be appreciative.

58 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I hope so.  It is nice to be internally consistent. 😇

But really, the days when the US can/should be expected.to solve all the problems are over. There are plenty of Australians, Canadians and Japanese citizens on board as passengers. Why not advocacy for those countries (or the aforementioned flag or country of incorporation) to step up and deal with the issue?

Honestly, are you kidding? So if you were stuck on the Westerdam right now, you wouldn’t support your own government’s efforts to assist in this increasingly dire situation? Yes, good idea, sit back and wait for those other countries to get you off the ship. Good plan. Good luck with that.

1 hour ago, arabrab said:

I am.  The folks onboard the Westerdam are in no danger. They are seriously inconvenienced. Not every inconvenience is the US's responsibility to solve. (In contrast, the Americans who were stuck in Wuhan were in danger. It was appropriate that the US help to evacuate them.). 

 

There is nothing wrong with letting the flag country (Netherlands) or the country where Carnival chose to be incorporated work to solve this particular issue. 

Would you feel that way if you were onboard?

Was there any validity to those posts claiming that Thailand would not accept the Westerdam? They didn’t seem phony, but who knows....

19 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

HAL is being more than fair for those on the Westerdam currently,  for some a 100% refund plus huge FCC will not make up for a spoiled vacation, but for something that is not under HAL's control this is very fair.

“Not under Hal’s control” is debatable. Hong Kong was under an official state of emergency, the people not allowed to go to work, every New Year’s celebration cancelled, every tourist attraction closed, all citizens told not to congregate in large groups, but they still made the decision to embark 800 passengers. The action wasn’t against any guidelines, or illegal, but they knew it wasn’t perfectly safe...if it was, they wouldn’t have cancelled the overnight. But they decided to stop in Hong Kong anyway.
 

Couldn’t one argue that as experienced travel professionals they could have been proactive, shown more foresight, and bypassed the port altogether? Yes, the embarking passengers would have been upset (cruise cancelled), as well as the disembarking passengers forced to get off instead in Manila, but this option was no doubt discussed and discarded, probably because they would have lost money. 
 

I know, I could very well be wrong, and there are those who say hindsight is 20/20 etc. etc,  but since the cruise line has been in operation for over 100 years, and you can never be too cautious or too safe when it comes to your paying passengers,  one could argue that they might have been better than others at making tough decisions and anticipating problems. Maybe this is asking too much. Maybe not.

10 hours ago, plettza said:

 

You're right, I don't have those kinds of health problems (except a heart condition) but enlighten me...  If Westerdam was set to arrive in Japan and now it's going to dock in Vietnam or Singapore, travel times via airplane would more or less be the same.  It's not like Westerdam will suddenly pop-up in Dunedin, New Zealand and now passengers are faced with an extra 21-hour flight to wherever.  If Westerdam were still at sea in a 2-weeks' time, then yeah, the narrative would change.

I think a future cruise credit and refund is more than generous. But how’d you like to save up for an exotic cruise, look forward to it for months, than have almost every port cancelled while you cruise around aimlessly in circles, day after day, the trip cancelled, just waiting to hear who will let the ship actually dock? Does that sound like fun?

One other thing. It’s hardly inconceivable that at least one person of the 800 who embarked in Honk Kong had visited China.

6 hours ago, Level six said:

 

1 hour ago, Viv0828 said:

 

we don't buy cruise insurance. we self insure as do many others. even if we did not get a refund for our cancelled feb 15 cruise, we would have been ahead rather than buying insurance on all our previous cruises.

everyone needs to cost it out and see what works best for them.

we always have a medical policy. we can afford to lose a few thousand dollars if we miss a cruise but we cannot afford hundreds of thousands of dollars for a medical emergency.

My apologies! I didn’t realize you said you always have a medical policy. 

1 hour ago, Viv0828 said:

 

we don't buy cruise insurance. we self insure as do many others. even if we did not get a refund for our cancelled feb 15 cruise, we would have been ahead rather than buying insurance on all our previous cruises.

everyone needs to cost it out and see what works best for them.

we always have a medical policy. we can afford to lose a few thousand dollars if we miss a cruise but we cannot afford hundreds of thousands of dollars for a medical emergency.

If you cannot afford hundreds of thousands of dollars for a medical emergency, that’s why you buy insurance! All it takes is one of those and you’re faced with a huge financial hit. Hard to justify not paying for travel insurance. You’re playing Russian Roulette.

3 hours ago, Level six said:

 

You must have misread.  I purchase insurance every time, very expensive insurance and even upgrade it.  

And it didn’t cover cancel for any reason like HA’s??

1 hour ago, Level six said:

Yes, very expensive trip insurance.  Does not cover epidemics.   Also, I have been on over 30 cruises and never used it except for once when we were stuck in Buenos Aires due to Airline cancellation and once when my hubby got sick on board with the flu.  Otherwise, never had a bad experience with trip insurance.  

Ok, but just to play devil’s advocate,  insurance is one of those things you hopefully never need. Until you do. 
I personally think a cruise vacation is an investment you want to protect.

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

okay that must be expensive insurance ..someone just decides not to go because something else came up..no show...full refund? Extraordinary.

Well, only a 90% refund, but cash not FCC. It’s their platinum plan, and it’s surprisingly reasonable.

13 minutes ago, bennybear said:

 

I don’t understand why you think  HAL should refund the prior uneventful cruise? 

Good question. Having taken “collectors voyage” cruises through HA in the past, they are booked as one fare and sold as one cruise, you don’t book two separately. Hence the argument for a full refund.

4 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

most standard insurance is not covering a quarantine...

Level Six, justifiably, did not show up for the Feb. 1 cruise. With HA insurance, the reason why this person was a no show wouldn’t matter, she’d be refunded 90%. HA is the only cruise line that offers this. I do think they should refund the purchase price, just not sure if they will.