BillB48

Not sure if I can suggest anything, I'm not quite sure on what you mean by Gatun Lake excursion. All the Rotterdam's excursions will begin in Gatun Lake, some will actually involve the Lake as in the Monkey excursion or kayaking. However once leaving Gatun Lake, there are a number of other excursions that involve going to the locks, tours of Panama City or a trip to see the Embera Indians. Being honest, not sure how much interests these tours will be to kids with that age span, but there should be elements of any tour that would be of interest.

If you think you would want to have a little more in depth look at the original locks as you will be using the new locks for your transit, then there are 2 tours that would work. The first is a visit to Miraflores Locks along with an IMAX presentation narrated by Morgan Freeman. The other Locks excursion variant would include Miraflores and a trip across the Isthmus to see the new Locks at Agua Clara. Nice chance to see some of the countryside. The shore excursion that takes you to Panama Viejo to see the ruins of the first city which was founded in 1519, then on to Casco Antiguo where the city was located after Henry Morgan completed some urban renewal, is popular. Usually part of this tour involves a little walking in the Casco.

I don't think that any of the Rhapsody's transits that were cancelled were partials. I looked at a B2B leaving Ft. Amador sailing to two ports in Costa Rica and ending in Colon, that would be a full transit.. From Colon a few stops and then ending in Ft. Lauderdale. I really think the demand for the Canal transits were soft and so they went to the chopping block. As you can see in my previous post, just the cost of reservations is not for the feint of heart. Probably for the reason mentioned, the cost was steep and bookings low. To IndianaRN, I don't believe there is any danger your cruise on NCL is in any danger because of any issues at the Canal. Go and enjoy!

Cruise ships have a reservation for a day certain and usually a time frame (daylight transit), which they pay extra. A ship such as the Radiance would have an extra $50K added for the day certain and an Extra $30K for the daylight transit. They will not be impacted by the backlog, it is only ships that arrive without reservations that go in the queue. If you happen to be in that category you can bring extra $$$ and buy your way to the head of the line. One of the most recent figures was $2.4million for an LNG tanker and that was in addition to the regular toll.

No, it has been in place for some time. I am sure it is a real money maker now a days!

Saw this a couple of days ago and forgot about it but fits in nicely with this topic... A Norwegian shipper recently paid $2.4 million in addition to the regular tolls of approximately $400,000 to go to the head of the line and skip the wait. What the Canal does is auction one transit north and south each day to the highest bidder. So, if you have the dough... you can go! The ship was an LPG carrier, many of the petroleum carriers are big users of the bidding system. Article from GCaptain... https://gcaptain.com/panama-canal-shipper-pays-2-4-million-to-skip-the-line/

While looking for a rabbit hole to dive into, I was able to find the original post on the HAL board that gives a little detail of the Rotterdam's cancellation. The OP quoted the email they received from HAL saying the call at Gatun Lake on March 24 had been cancelled and they were refunding the cost of the shore excursion. I assume if the call to GL is cancelled the partial transit is a no go as well. Checked HAL's website and they do not have any sailing listed during that time frame in March, although I did find that sailing listed on site I don't think I am suppose to mention. I am sure HAL had reservations for their partial transit and even cancelling the reservation over 6 months out doesn't come without a little bit of pain in the checkbook. A ship the size of the Rotterdam, the reservation fee is $70,000 and cancelling between 180-365 days is $14,000! I suppose if they can't make the partial transit spending 14K is the preferable option than to loose the entire reservation fee. The transit would have cost about $500,000

Here is a screen grab of the cruise terminal from a video on FB of an approach to Gelabert Int. Airport (PAC) which is the former Albrook AFB. Looks to me while the terminal building appears complete there is no way of knowing how functional the terminal is. There doesn't appear to be any supporting infrastructure such roads, parking lots completed yet. The poster said it was taken recently.

Unfortunately it is just that, a little news. A friend of mine sent me an article in Spanish from one of the local news outlets detailing an announcement from the Panama Marine Authority (AMP). This is the government authority that oversees the ports as opposed to the agency that runs the Canal, the Panama Canal Authority (ACP). The article states that Sept. 1 marks the beginning of the third season of operation of the terminal. I think most of us Canal cruise watchers would say it is more like the third season for the pier with the terminal building opening to follow! Key takeaways from the article... Presently AMP has 49 reservations for cruise ships, serving 83,000 passengers An in transit passenger is expected to spend approximate $100. A passenger embarking or disembarking from a cruise is expected to donate about $350. Total income for the Panamanian economy $11.5 million. Accompanying the article was the following picture... Photo Credit AMP Don't have any idea of the date of the photo, however whenever it was taken there is still quite a bit of work to be completed shore side. I suspect it is an older stock photo. Maybe things are further along... hopefully anyway.

NCL's train and close up excursion from the Ft. Amador cruise terminal is relatively new since the terminal has only recently began to receive cruise ships. Add to that, the terminal is not completely finished so ships calling there and the details of the excursions are a work in progress. With that as a disclaimer, I can give you some info on the railroad trip. The Panama Railroad has quite a history and it was the first transcontinental railroad completed in 1855. Until transcontinental RR was completed in the US in 1869, the PRR provided an alternative to the grueling wagon trip across the plains and Rockies or a long voyage around Cape Horn to reach the west coast. Of course it was key in the construction of the Panama Canal. Lots of history and nostalgia when you ride that train, probably on a train buff's bucket list. However while the train trip is scenic in some respects you only see glimpses of the Canal on the trip and that is if you are on the correct side. Much of the trip is through undeveloped areas and not many panoramic vistas are presented. I am not trying to be negative, only to convey that to many people it is just a train ride and it is the history you are experiencing. The second part of the excursion of giving you a close up view of how the locks work... there are two scenarios for that part of the tour I can think of. One is take you to the visitor's center at either the original locks at Miraflores on the Pacific side or the visitor's center at the new Agua Clara Locks on the Atlantic side. This stop could be accomplished either before or after the train portion of the excursion. Another item, the train ride could be a round trip or a combination one way train and one way bus.

While i would not have any reservations in going into town in a group, don't think I would try this alone or only with one or two other people without a guide of some sort. From the cruise terminal into the nearest part of the City would be close to 5 miles and that would not be the primo part. There are some eateries and such near the terminal that offer great views across the bay towards the City. IMO Panama and the City, unless you are with someone knowledgeable can run into some pretty sketchy areas within a block or two particularly after dark . Not a good place for DIY tourism without some sort of guide. If your with someone who knows the area, you are fine.

Up until now I have no issues booking directly, but I can see the times where a good travel agent is invaluable. Like many people on this board finding a really knowledgeable agent is not an easy task. My experience with a travel agent while wasn't catastrophic was certainly an added layer of bureaucracy that had to be navigated to get a price reduction, hence I went back to doing it myself. I guess you just don't miss the work of the pros until you really need their assistance.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I did call to see if I could re-book as a solo and the rep said that would be a forfeit of the two cruise fares minus fees and taxes. I would be ineligible for the double points since the cabin would have to have been booked as a single to begin with. I booked the cruise after final payment and my plan was she would be sailing or at least one of the other members of clan. Crystal ball is always in the shop when you need it the most.

Thanks, the double points would be at least some benefit. Guess I'll have to give them a call.

As we thought would happen, the "boss" will not be able to make the cruise because of work. Tried to shop it around to the kids... but they have jobs too! Work, the curse of the cruising class. Just wondered if it would be better (easier) to call them today and cancel or just me tell them at check in she will be a no show?? Cruise leaves Saturday, Aug 26.

True, it is an imposed limit of 965' at the original locks and ships that were in excess of that dimension have transited those locks. The bottom line is the Canal will not accept you as a regular customer if the vessel doesn't fit within the posted limits. Actually the 965' figure is only for cruise ships and container ships, all others are limited to 950'. Prior to the completion of the new locks Canal authorities were more apt to grant exceptions to the dimension limits as there was not any real alternative, however now the new locks provide that as the alternative if you can't quite squeeze in the original locks. The new locks are 1400'x180', when first opened vessel limits were 1200'x160', those limits have been increased to 1215'x167'. Don't know if any more increases are in the works. I would second Turtles' suggestion about taking the small boat excursion to the original locks on the Pacific side. Not only will this give you the experience of the original locks but you will also pass through Gaillard Cut which was where the bulk of the excavation occurred. As you are in the "Cut", just imagine what is was like for 200 trains hauling out spoils to be dumped elsewhere every day. Just imagine the computer needed for that operation😉! Since you will be transiting on the Rotterdam, the new locks really offer less visual attractions. There is only one lane so you can't watch the ship in the other lane pass through the locks, no mules to pull you along and your ship will not imposingly fill up the lock chamber as it would at the original locks. Don't get me wrong it is still an impressive operation to lift you up over 80', but there is just not as much for you to visualize. Your partial transit will only provide about 8 miles of a 50 mile Canal. I encourage you to see as much of it as you can.

Royal Caribbean cancelled Canal transits on only one of their ships, the Rhapsody IIRC. This ship had offered Canal transits on fairly short notice and I don't think the demand in bookings reached a level that Royal was confident in. There may have been some accompanying issues, but the cruise line rarely divulges the real reasons for their itinerary shakeups. All their other Canal itineraries remain intact.

And it has been moved to the Pan Canal board! Virtually all passenger ships that transit the Canal do so with reservations. These reservations provide them a transit on a given day within a certain time period. The reservations are made at at considerable expense above and beyond the tolls.

If you are wishing to experience more of the Canal other than one of the two locks on the Atlantic side, the shore excursion Turtles is referencing is an excellent choice. Going through the original locks on a smaller vessel is different than what you will experience when you lock up on your ship. Even though you will be lifted roughly 85', there is little sense of movement. It will be much more apparent on a smaller vessel. While staying on the ship for the passage back through the locks and the short sail to Colon is enjoyable, you are only seeing about 8 miles of a 50 mile Canal. Take the opportunity to see more of the Canal and a little of the country as well.

While Royal Carib wound up cancelling Canal cruises for one of their ships and substituting alternate itineraries sailing from Panama, I don't believe it was drought related. Of course RCI like most businesses don't generally give you the real reason in their decision making, they will provide some spin that gives them all the wiggle room in the world. My opinion the Canal cruises were cancelled were the continued uncertainty of the Ft. Amador cruise port facility to be up and running for their planned cruises and more importantly, I think bookings were soft. RCI had not proposed this itinerary with a huge lead time and I don't think there was enough interest for them to commit to the high cost of transiting the Canal. As far as ships having priority, ships having reservations have priority, other wise the ship shows up and waits its turn. Passenger vessels almost universally transit the Canal with reservations. The Canal is very happy to accommodate a passenger ship as it will provide much more revenue than a cargo ship of similar size. The revenue generated from the reservation fee and the additional daylight transit guarantee can generate almost another $100,000 above the base rate for tolls. Believe me, the Canal loves to see all those smiling faces standing at the rails of the ship! Concerning the drought, yes it is a concern and the Canal is taking measures to mitigate the effects. The rains have returned sufficiently to postpone further planned draft limitations. The last draft reduction was supposed to take place in mid June for ships using the new locks, but that draft reduction was never implemented as there was enough rain and the draft at the new locks is 44'. In fact no draft reduction whatsoever has been imposed on ships using the original locks, that draft limit remains at 39.5'.

As Bruce indicated, cruise ships pay extra, a lot extra for reservations for a day certain and a particular time frame on that day. If you are booked on a cruise ship the last thing you will not need to worry about is getting through the Canal as planned. This backlog is for the ships that show up without the reservation which is common for many cargo vessels, under normal circumstances ships might expect a 48 hour or so delay before transit. Because the Canal has temporarily reduced the number of transits per day the and the arrivals have well exceeded that number, hence the backlog. Cruise ships just don't show up and take their chances, they come with reservations in hand.

Your sailing will go just as planned, if there is any issue it won't be because of the Canal. While there is concern for the lack of a real rainy season, rains have returned sufficiently for the Canal to not implement any further draft restrictions. Draft limits were to be reduced for ships using the new locks to 43.5' in mid June. Rains returned to a level where that limit was not imposed, draft limits are currently 44' for the new locks and 39.5' for the original locks. Also the Radiance has a reservation for Oct. 17 (if I counted correctly), as long as she is there, she will go. The Radiance's draft is no where near 39.5' and if the ship isn't in Tampa for the winter that would create a ton more problems.

You are correct, I think the change went into effect in January 2023. Previously tolls were based on total passenger berths, occupied or not. The way the tolls are calculated now is basically how tolls are calculated for all other ships which is based on the volume of the ship. It is called the Panama Canal Universal Measurement System (PCUMS) which is similar to Gross Tonnage. Gross Tonnage is the volume of the enclosed spaces, with PCUMS certain enclosed spaces are not counted such as areas necessary for the operation of the ship... engine room, navigation bridge etc. You can still get a guesstimate by multiplying $150 by the passenger capacity. There is a laundry list of fees that are not actually the tolls, but you won't transit without paying them.

Cruise lines in most cases don't compete with cargo ships in joining the queue. The Canal has a reservation system all ships are entitled to use and the Canal is strongly encouraging ships to use the system to avoid delays. The problem is the system doesn't work like Holiday Inn with the reservation being free and no charge if you call by 6PM. The reservation is pricey and as you might expect it gets even more $$$ the larger the ship. The Canal also permits cruise lines to make reservations with a much longer lead time than is permitted for cargo ships. Once a cruise ship has made their reservation they can transit the Canal on a given day within a particular time frame. Since Royal will never disclose why they changed the itinerary so drastically, there are some things that may have entered their thought process. One of them may have been the terminal at Ft. Amador has turned into a real albatross. While the pier and breakwater for the facility went in without huge delays the terminal is way overdue. The pier has been used for visiting cruise ships, but getting passengers checked in for a cruise has been taking place at another offsite facility. Perhaps NCL's experience with fueling there is an issue, then there was a gangway collapse with passengers boarding a ship. Short answer I guess is something changed and the stated reason is to enhance our experience!! Not very creative or believable.

In one sense they already have! Three or four years ago during one of the sub par rainy seasons the Canal instituted what they term a "Freshwater Surcharge". What that shakes out to be is any vessel over 125' pays an additional $10,000 and depending how high Gatun Lake is and up to another 10% which is added to the toll calculated for the transit. When the Lake is high the percentage is low and when the Lake is as it is now (fairly low) the percentage is around 8%. While the $200M shortfall sounds serious, I don't think it is a huge blow when you consider that is out of almost $5 billion in income. The Freshwater Surcharge should have been making up the difference during the wetter periods. So much for the rainy day fund😉.