MrRandal

This is from a French Travel Website, I assume it is, or was accurate French Law. If so, Ponant and Paul Gauguin seem to be in violation of French law, unless the French Government has enacted new laws that would allow them to break contracts that were already in place.

The French Tourism Code - Law

"Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees, but receiving a full refund of all monies paid, if a significant change is made to an essential component of the contract, other than price. If the professional responsible for the service cancels it before it begins, travellers are entitled to a refund and to compensation, if applicable.

Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees before the service begins and under exceptional circumstances, e.g. if there are serious safety issues at the destination which could affect the journey.

Furthermore, travelers may cancel the contract at any time prior to the start of the journey, subject to the payment of appropriate and justifiable cancellation fees."

53 minutes ago, resistk said:

I have read my Ponant contract carefully, it says I can have my refund if they cancel and French law applies.  It  quotes some French law but nothing relevant to this issue.  So while they can claim they fall under French law; they have yet to produce the text of the actual French law that allows them to unilaterally change contracts as they please.  If this law actually existed - where is it?  Does this "law" only apply to people who don't speak French?  I doubt the French tourist would put up with such a nonconsumer friendly law.  I think we are being hoaxed.  If the law exists it is in the French Tourism Code.  Based on this synopsis it is Ponant who is violating the law:

 

https://www.vacancesbleues.fr/en/french-tourism-code-law

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074073&dateTexte=&categorieLien=cid

 

 

Yes, it appears Ponant is simply making up their own laws, according to: 

"The French Tourism Code - Law"

"Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees, but receiving a full refund of all monies paid, if a significant change is made to an essential component of the contract, other than price. If the professional responsible for the service cancels it before it begins, travellers are entitled to a refund and to compensation, if applicable.

Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees before the service begins and under exceptional circumstances, e.g. if there are serious safety issues at the destination which could affect the journey.

Furthermore, travelers may cancel the contract at any time prior to the start of the journey, subject to the payment of appropriate and justifiable cancellation fees."

On 4/14/2020 at 5:35 PM, jland said:

 

ParisChris is correct, nobody should expect to be personally contact about a cruise which is months away but I think we all deserve to be treated with consideration. All Ponant have to do is update their list of cancelled cruises, this would allow people chance to  cancel air tickets, hotels, tours etc not to much to ask surely.

 

Our cruise with Cunard was cancelled March 26th took the full refund offered. Do not expect to see the money for months but we will get it eventually, that is all we ask. 

I cancelled a 13 day Viking Med cruise scheduled for Oct 2020 two weeks ago. I had 100% of the money I had paid Viking, which was 100% of the price, over $18,000 refunded to my AMEX within 48 hours. I have a $3600 deposit with Paul Gauguin/Ponant for an 11 day French Polynesia cruise in Sept 2021. I can't get my deposit back if I cancelled today, over a year before our cruise. From what I can tell, Ponant is at the back of the line when it comes to handling customers concerns, and it is inconceivable to me that they will not refund money to people when Ponant was the one who cancelled the cruise, no matter the reason. I signed a contract with Paul Gauguin before they were acquired by Ponant, they took my money, and now, under their new Ponant ownership, they have changed their policy. This is not acceptable. They have taken on an air of typical French arrogance "Let them eat cake". 

We have booked Pure Snorkel twice in the past, once while in Bora Bora on the Paul Gauguin, the other time when we were staying post cruise at the IC Thalassa. They are an exceptional outfit, great boats, great guides, great locations. They take up to 8 people on their boats, which are newer "speed boats" as opposed to larger outriggers like many other excursions that may carry 20+ people. Both times we went with them, we only had one other couple on board. I'm pretty certain if you book through the PG, you'll have a full boat of 8 pax plus guide at a higher cost. However, I would be very careful booking or more importantly paying for any private excursion at this point. Unfortunately, we have no idea what the future holds.

On 4/10/2020 at 12:44 PM, DrJJ said:

Viking cancelled my April 14 cruise on  March 11. On March 12 I notified both Viking directly and my travel agent that I wanted a refund rather than a voucher. I was told it could take up to 30 days for a refund. As of today I have not received the refund to my credit card. I am writing to ask if anyone who has requested a refund has received one?

I cancelled a paid in full October 13 day Mediterranean cruise on April 1. I had a full refund, $18,000+ on my AMEX statement within 48 hours. This is just one of the reasons I love AMEX, some banks will float a refund for 30 days. I'm guessing the problem lies with your card issuer rather than Viking.

On 4/10/2020 at 7:42 AM, Peregrina651 said:

They are saying 21 business days, which is four calendar weeks.

We cancelled our October Mediterranean Odyssey cruise last week. We had been planning this trip for almost a year, had paid in full, and the decision was difficult. However in these very uncertain times, we felt it prudent to ask for a full refund. Cancellation docs were emailed within minutes, and all of the money we paid to Viking was refunded to our AMEX within 48 hours, except for the trip insurance we purchased through Viking, for which we are supposed to receive a $1630 FCC. The process was simple and the service was exemplary. If Viking survives this scourge, we will book with them again. Just my opinion, but I simply don't see any cruise ships sailing until well into 2021. How many cruise lines will survive is anyone's guess, but the industry will certainly look dramatically different when all is said and done.

7 hours ago, clo said:

Er, no. Never been to one, never wanted to go to one.

That's a shame, because Disney will almost certainly lead the way in how the travel and hospitality business recovers from this pandemic.

15 minutes ago, clo said:

I believe they're all closed. I just read something about Disney and certain benefits for certain laid off workers.

Of course they are all closed, every theme park in the world is closed. Did you know Disney has 11 theme parks (or gates, as they call them) throughout the world? Massive losses, and like the cruise industry, no end in sight. 

17 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

Great to hear a positive experience from the refund process. I believe yours is the first I have heard at this point! Thanks for letting us know!

My Brother in Law had an Alaska Viking Cruise scheduled to leave Vancouver on July 7, which he cancelled. He paid by eCheck, and received his refund with a direct deposit to his bank within 48 hours as well. Again, Kudos to Viking for their prompt response.

On 4/3/2020 at 3:50 PM, InDaPast said:

 

I've read the overwhelming number of posts about difficulties folks have had in trying to get their money back & the roadblocks that have been put in place by the same companies noted above.

 

As an aside, is there a cruise line that has acted above board with all of their customers (not just in isolated occurrences) in promptly refunding monies paid? If there is, that company should be at the top of anyone's potential cruise list.

 

My wife and I felt it prudent to cancel our first Viking cruise, a 13 day Med cruise, Barcelona to Venice, that is scheduled in early October. I'm not comfortable that we will be comfortable either flying or cruising this fall, even if the airline was able to get us there, and the cruise was still scheduled to sail considering the cruise starts and ends in the 2 countries that have been most decimated by this scourge. As well, we're not confident in any cruise line's, not just Viking, viability considering what they will be facing to get back up and running. It's going to be a massive challenge, as many on this thread have pointed out. We felt it was in our best interest to cancel and request a refund. I called Viking this past Tuesday, was greeted within 2-3 minutes, spoke to an agent who was incredibly responsive, fully understood my reasoning for cancelling and requesting a refund instead of FCC. Within 48 hours I had every penny I had paid Viking back on my AMEX, minus $100 p/p cancellation fee, and the $1630 we paid Viking for our TripMate Insurance. Amazingly, we have received a $1630 FCC for our insurance.  AMEX wired $9999 to our checking account, and we will receive a check from them for the balance in 3-5 days, something about reporting laws for wire transfers of 10K or over. We have 24 months to rebook a cruise, not sail, but rebook, to use the FCC. If and when the industry gets back up and running, there's a vaccine and robust treatment for this virus, planes are flying, ports are open and Viking is still sailing, they will most definitely get our business. We could not have asked for a more professional response to our request to cancel. Kudos to Viking.

That policy is across the entire Ponant Line, which Paul Gauguin now belongs. There are a lot of upset people on the Ponant Board.

I removed my reference to a Giant Ponzi scheme. Bad analogy, as I'm sure what Viking has been doing is not fraudulent. You decide what to call it when they are the only Cruise Line in the industry to require full payment 12-18 months in advance. Since they decided to cancel all of their operations, they have been stellar, and my understanding is they are issuing refunds to everyone who requests them. I hope they are able to continue to do so, and I hope they survive this scourge intact. But the question, the topic of the post, is can they?

13 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

Here is an article from 2016 which summarizes the 'ownership' profile, which i wouldn't refer to as 'big backers' given they only own 17% or about $500 million, which is no drop in the bucket but when you consider the cost of one ship is reported to be approx. $400 million that still means they're having to fund the overly ambitious plans to expand the market share position.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/15798-viking-ownership-moves-provide-insight-company-targets-china.html

 

Hard as well not to notice the reference back then from Moody's which referred to their credit status as being downgraded so fast forward to the current climate and I can't imagine things are looking rosy despite the well intended short video clip being produced by Hagen and every other top banana in the industry.

There is much more current info on Tor Hagen, and Vikings present financial situation. I have no idea how much cash they have on hand, as they have been collecting full fares in advance, 12-18 months in many cases. They do have 78 boats and 10,000 employees sitting idle with probably very little income and many, many refunds being paid. For a little insight into Tor and Viking, this is a quote from an article posted in Forbes on May 15, 2019 "Hagen can hardly keep up with the demand. He is borrowing cash furiously (the company’s debt is $2.5 billion) to build more ships, and has also raised equity capital from the Canadian pension board and the U.S. private equity firm TPG."

2 hours ago, dwlmg said:

Curious.  The VIking updates on current sailings mentions a voucher equal to 125% of all monies paid to Viking.  I wonder if you do things like buy air through Viking and pay for it, buy excursions through Viking and pay for them, prepay gratuities, and even buy trip insurance through Viking if these are included in the 125% voucher calculation.  I could understand a position that only the cruise fare is actually paid to Viking but perhaps they are all included. The other items are collected by VIking and paid to other entities.  Does anyone have any knowledge or experience in this area?

The way I read it is all monies paid to Viking. But I imagine we need someone who has actually received a FCC to verify.

39 minutes ago, Humbb said:

Looks like US Taxpayers won't be funding those grape costs either:

Cruise lines out of bailout package

I don't believe any non U.S. based company is getting funding from this stimulus package. Not sure if Norway is offering its citizens and companies a stimulus package. We'll see, I guess.

14 hours ago, duquephart said:

 

Maybe you already have🙂.

Perhaps I have.

6 minutes ago, duquephart said:

 

So ----- when you hear Viking has gone tits up and ole Tor's been spotted on a remote Barbados beach surrounded by three nubile young blonds peeling grapes for him ----- you won't be surprised?

Not a bit, and I wouldn't blame him. I just don't want to pay for the grapes.

I didn't mean to rain on your parade, Den. My wife and I really want Viking to thrive, and we both want to take this cruise. But we are also pretty cautious by nature.

Thanks for your input and insight Den. All of us need to make our decisions dependent on our own personal circumstances. I've never cruised Viking, but I chose this line and this cruise because of Viking's sterling reputation. While I felt a little irritated having to send my entire cruise fare a year and a half in advance, I did so to book the cruise I wanted to take, in the cabin I wanted to cruise in. However, that was pre COVID-19, and I have a lot of money invested in a company that was humming right along until 3 weeks ago. Then I did a little homework and I found this in Forbes, published less than a year ago (April 15, 2019), talking about Majority stockholder/CEO Torstein Hagen "He is borrowing cash furiously (the company’s debt is $2.5 billion) to build more ships, and has also raised equity capital from the Canadian pension board and the U.S. private equity firm TPG." This from a company, that just a few weeks ago, was insisting on and receiving full payment 12-18 months in advance of sailing from their passengers. I'm not a financial expert, but it certainly seems like this company is pretty highly leveraged, and I'm just not certain how long they can withstand having 78 ships and 9000 employees sit idle with no income. 

1 hour ago, duquephart said:

 

Unfortunate. Everything we have paid in is to Viking only so we would get the whole works back per our TA.

I have talked to someone who indicated Viking may issue a voucher for the Insurance paid, which would save $1600. I have not verified that with Viking. And of course that is only a positive if Viking remains viable.

4 minutes ago, duquephart said:

 

How do you lose 5K if you get a full refund? What am I missing?

Full refund for cruise fare. Read post 74 on this thread, page 3.

I believe we have decided to wait until May 1st, and see if Viking actually restarts operations as they indicated they would. If they are able to, we will watch and see for a month. If they do, and all goes well, we'll most probably take the gamble. If things don't look good, we will most certainly request a full refund. To rebook this cruise, I'd be losing $5K plus adding another Insurance policy. If that is the case, we may just need to put it off for a couple of years. We already have a cruise booked for 2021 to French Polynesia, and neither of these are inexpensive, we can only afford to take one a year.

7 hours ago, PeterPan48 said:

  We received a credit on our visa yesterday for all except the deposit which we applied to the same cruise in June 2021.  

Was the deposit not refunded simply because you applied it to another cruise? Or did Viking refuse to refund your deposit? If they are not refunding the $1000 deposit, we need to factor that into our equation. We're already going to be out $1600 in travel insurance, $300 for depositing FF miles back into our account (assuming Delta survives all of this) $100 pp cancelation fee with Viking as well as possibly $1800 in a post cruise hotel that I foolishly booked with a non refundable fare. So I'm looking at almost $5K lost if I cancel, $20K if I gamble and hope Viking survives and lose.

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

These are difficult times and they only have limited resources, unlike some of the mega ship lines.

Yes, limited resources and leveraged to the max, that's what's so concerning. They have over $20K of my money for an Oct 2020 Med Odyssey cruise. I'm still more than 120 days out, so, according to their terms of service, I am due a full refund minus $100 pp cancellation fee. My wife and I are both really torn, $20K is an awful lot of money.

21 hours ago, ozzicruiser said:

Well I've bitten the bullet and have decided to cancel my cruises. 

A loss of 10% is better than a FCC. 

But I have to wait 3 months to get my refund. Ponant you stink. 

I don't know what type of credit card protections you have in Australia, but I would contact your CC Company right away and dispute the entire amount you paid Ponant. Explain you are cancelling according to their their terms and they are refusing to refund your money for 90 days. Unless their terms state 90 days for a refund.