Hendricks Clan

Yep. I've been twice and I wasn't impressed. And I know they have an issue with crime too. http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/03/articles/crime/another-critical-crime-warning-for-nassau-bahamas/

 

Does NCL go to Turks and Caicos? If not, that would be a nice change up from Nassau. Or Key West if they're feeling stingy about fuel.

No Carnival Corp owns the port at Grand Turk. Been there several times, and its nothing special.

Still disagree about Regent and Oceania being two money losing cruise lines. Luxury lines (such as Seabourn - owned by Carnival) run on very slim profit margins. Profits did take a hit when Oceania built two new ships and Regent began construction of the "most luxurious cruise ship in the world". One can only imagine how much money that is costing. Apollo/PCH/Regent spent mega millions of dollars to fix up the three ships after they were purchased approximately 7 years ago (when they were truly losing a lot of money and were not in good shape). Regent was finally in a good financial position when it became obvious that three ships were could not meet the volume of passengers that want to sail on Regent - thus, the 4th ship.

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So a company whose value is $850 million and had debts of over $660 million is profitable? Thats 2/3rds of it value in debt. Doesn't seem very profitable. I am intrigued by the research on Seabourn, Im going out on a trip tonight but once I get to my hotel and during my layover I'm going to see what I can find in that regards. The difference is Carnival Corp has multiple lines to help pick up the slack. NCLH does not.

Here is another scenario to consider.

 

Maybe Sheehan and some of the board members objected to Apollo's power play in which they uprooted some of the board members and engineered the transaction in which NCL "purchased" the two money losing cruise lines. This seems logical since Apollo is now in control of the NCLH board and put their boy Del Rio in charge. Genting is backing out of the scene.and in the shake up, they forfeited their positions on the NCLH board.

Very plausible as well.

Firstly, I would disagree with your basic premise that the cruise lines have the upper hand. They have a chronic oversupply problem, hence they need to discount heavily or offer this that and the other deal to fill their ships. Supply outstrips demand for many weeks of the year (My inbox is inundated with 'deals' trying to fill their ships).

 

I am no advocate of a communist system BTW - it has clearly been shown to be fundamentally flawed societal system.

 

I have already 'shopped around' (see my sig. block). Princess gave me a seriously better deal than I have ever got on NCL and they delivered exactly what they promised - no extra charges appearing with no warning etc..

 

NCL have managed to alienate a tranche of previous cruisers - the trust element has gone. I will only give a serious wedge of cash to a company that I trust to deliver what I sign up for - NCL no longer have that trust from me (or from my wife which is probably more important!:D)

Exactly, thus the reason I cancelled my Escape cruise and booked with MSC instead. I have no idea what the product is going to be, so I decided to cancel and shop elsewhere. You know, I've never stepped foot onboard an MSC ship, but they have up to this point acted like they really appreciate my business. I haven't felt that about NCL here lately, they have instead treated me like I am replaceable. I work for an airline who has come under intense pressure by Delta in our largest hub in Seattle. Instead of cowering down, we focused on the customer. That in return has led to us seeing record profits, record growth, our loyalty program ranked #1, we were recently named the best mainline carrier in North America by J.D. Power in highest quality of customer satisfaction. We did all this by not doing away with anything in fact we upgraded and expanded our entire onboard product. I know the airline and cruise industry are two different animals but lessons can be learned from each other. Maybe FDR needs to call our CEO Brad Tilden and ask, what is Alaska Airlines doing that maybe be can apply here at NCLH?

They are the only year round cruise in Hawaii, that's a heck of a selling point.

Very true and something we can finally agree on! However, it also brings with it a much higher cost to keep that ship there year round.

Yes, that makes me wonder if the board of directors showed Kevin Sheehan the door as maybe he wasn't too keen on all the cost cutting measures which included dismantling some of what he had accomplished while building the brand.

I think you are absolutely right. I think Kevin, may have pushed back on the changes and that was it. I stand by what I posted earlier about Oceania/Regent not making the money necessary to keep the combined company profitable (based on numerous financial articles), thus leading to the changes at NCL to help bring in necessary revenue. NCL found itself between a rock and a hard place, they needed to grow and diversify and due to Carnival Corp and the Royal Caribbean Cruises already swallowing up the majority of the other brands, they weren't left with many options outside of starting a new line (which would have been costly).

I'm not sure how they could have done this but the best option would have been to leave Regent as the luxury line it is, but transition Oceania into a direct competitor with Celebrity, Princess, and Holland America. Lets face it, with Oceania being FDR's "baby," that would be a nonstarter. As per the various articles I've read in financial papers, Oceania has never really been that profitable. So by transiting them to that market, in my opinion would give them the best chance turn a profit, allow them to grow in fleet size, and help the overall company's bottom line. That would also leave NCL alone and not have to nickel and dime its loyal passengers so much. Also by doing that you put direct competition on Carnival and Royal. As it is now, that segment of the cruise market is left completely to those behemoths outside of the Haven experience.

Agree. N America is a mature cruise market with little room to grow and full of competitors. Asia especially China is an emerging cruise market full of potentials, new rich and 10 times the size. It is not hard to see why N American cruisers are suddenly considered disposable and demoted to substitute player status at NCL Corporate in its search for new profit.

Thats not true at all. Less than 20% of Americans have even been on a cruise. A lot of room to grow if you ask me!

http://www.statisticbrain.com/cruise-ship-industry-statistics/

We're look at MSC, I am also platinum on NCL. What hoops did you have to jump thru to do this?

I'm Platinum on Carnival, and I also took advantage of their loyalty match program. You have to send the a copy of your most recent shipboard card showing your status and they will automatically match your status. Its a great program and one of the reasons why were giving them a try this fall. You have 36 months to take a sailing with them or you loose your match and go to their most basic level.

Thank you so much! I just need to do more research now to make sure I get the best deal possible as well with a room like that. That room sounds amazing. Thanks for the help!

Another option would be to look at MSC Cruises. The have a similar experience to NCL's Haven, called the MSC Yacht Club. They are new to the American market, and I personally have not yet sailed on MSC but I am doing so this November.

I recently cancelled my Norwegian Escape cruise in November and booked the MSC Divina for the same week. My balcony on NCL was just $200 less per person than what I was able to get the Yacht Club for on MSC. Since they are new to the American market, MSC is very competitive price wise right now! They have a separate website for American customers so for you could research them at msccruisesusa.com

Yup. ;)

 

 

 

You betcha'. ;)

 

...and I totally agree with the CC'ers who have said it's not the charges, or lost time, etc...but rather the lack of (or poor) communication.

NCL could really invest in their PR team. Thats for sure!

I just don't get how some of you know all this inside info. How could you possibly know FDR is a MUSH at every company he touches.

He happens to have one hell of a resumè. And, just by reading he also is extremely respected in the industry. Please share with us where all the negative info comes from.

Google is a powerful tool. Del Rio himself takes blame for many things that happened at Renaissance Cruises and its demise. He said he learned from many of those mistakes, however it doesn't seem to be the case.

For example, Oceania cruises was valued and bought by Apollo for $850 million in exchange for taking on the $660 million debt Oceania owed to creditors. Apollo themselves said they were unable to turn PCH into profitability, thus the reason they decided to offer an IPO but instead decided to combine them with NCL which they already had a majority stake in and who already had offered an IPO.

I'll give the man credit, he seems to know exactly what upscale passengers want in a cruise...maybe thats why the passengers of those lines love him so much. However, he's yet to figure out how to make that work in a profitable manner. He also doesn't seem to understand how to run a contemporary/main stream line (NCL). I suspect that many of the measures taken by NCL is his way to offset some of the loss thats acquired by Oceania/Regent by using NCL to keep the combined company profitable.

Upon Kevin's resignation, NCLH should have reached out to Carnival Corp (not CCL), and Royal Caribbean Cruises (not RCI). They should have poached someone from one of those cruise holding companies who have experience in running multiple brands.

We've cruised on NCL, RCI, Carnival and Princess and I can say without hesitation:

1. Every cruise line is looking to cut costs. Cheaper cuts of meat in the MDR (hello Carnival), making you pay more for a "good steak" in the upscale Chops restaurant (I'm looking at you RCI)

2. Service is being cut back to the point where its obvious

3. The number of people it takes to serve an area like the MDR is being cut back - do more with less.

4. The customer no longer is the #1 motivating factor. Set your standards low and many customers will justify it as keeping prices competitive - yep that's you guys over there on the Carnival board.

 

So its the same on every line I've cruised on. ITs a shame but I've lowered my expectations after 15 years of cruising.

True but at the same time other lines like Carnival have also added things/revamped, to help offset some of the cuts. My problem with NCL is they have yet to add anything to the customer experience to offset some of the changes.

 

Oh my gosh..you are not in the real world and have no idea what you are talking about..

Jancruz1

 

What parts? All my information came from you know actual published sources, not my own love fest for all things Del Rio and Oceania.

I'm all for NCL raising the bar, but it's going to take more than additional fees and higher prices to do so. That is all I've seen so far. Nothing in the way of enhancing the customer experience. How about better quality cuisine, a higher staff ratio, enhanced entertainment, better amenities in the cabins, more attention to detail, etc. etc. More diverse itineraries are a start, but it's going to take more than that. Princess and Royal Caribbean already have more diverse itineraries and IMO offer a better onboard product (I know that is debatable).

 

I agree that NCL will never be a luxury line. I don't think that is the intent and it's not physically possible anyway. They may strive to be a Princess or Royal Caribbean, but again it's going to take some enhancements to the product to do so.

 

I'm actually willing to pay more for an NCL cruise than I do today, but I have to see something in return. I haven't seen that so far. Everything so far doesn't really appear to benefit the customer. Only the stockholders.

Agreed! Its take, take, take and no give in return.

While I can appreciate that, I've listened to investment calls of both Carnival and Royal Caribbean. There is a difference in the way their CEO's speak about the customer. It's much more respectable like something they actually appreciate instead of something just to be manipulated to squeeze more dollars out of. The objectives may be the same but the path is a bit different.

Exactly!

I think you will love MSC. The ships are gorgeous, just beautiful.

Im looking forward to it. Ive heard their ships are second to none in terms of elegance and entrainment. I am scared a little about the dinning, as I heard thats not up to par to american standards, but I believe there working to correct that before Divina comes back.

Swedish weave: Another slight correction. Frank Del Rio did not sell Regent and Oceania ...... PCH (Prestige Cruise Holdings) did.

 

If your statement is correct, how did Apollo become the owner of the two cruise lines when they formed Prestige ??

 

You are picking at words instead of recognizing the truth about this transaction.

 

Exactly, Travelcat 2 is living in delusion that Oceania wasn't in financial trouble thus needing to be bought by Apollo and when Apollo bought Regent merged the two under PCH. Then not to mention the disaster that Renaissance was while he was part of the executive management team there.

I'm not THAT attached to any cruise line that I feel bad looking elsewhere. Typically, there is one that meets our needs and that we prefer sailing and that is usually the one we will book with. First CCL had our business...for a very long time, then they made changes (cuts I saw in entertainment) that lead us to start booking mostly with NCL

We were extremely happy with NCL until Sheehan left, then the changes started.

Personally, charging more for things does not ever lead me to leave a cruise line...it's other changes that do. Cuts in food quality or entertainment will make me leave OR in this case, my dissatisfaction with current NCL is their changing and elimination of itineraries that I love. Last year they cancelled our Pearl Southern Caribbean (it was chartered out)...gave us limited options to replace it and then totally pulled all of their 11-14 night Jan/Feb Southern Caribbean cruise out of Florida...and that was something we liked to book every year.

Move on to the present..I had an Oct 2016 Western (10 night) booked and recently found out that too has been cancelled due to all the shuffling of ships. We were given ONE option to switch to and that option was in the next calendar year, and an eastern as opposed to the western I wanted...plus in a month (January) when we prefer to stick to Southern routes to ensure warmer temps. To make matters worse, they gave us a short letter telling us our cruise was cancelled, told us our option to keep our price locked in was that one sailing in January and then didn't even tell us what the itinerary was...only it was an eastern for 10 nights, and the itinerary isn't going to be available (according to my TA...who called NCL for me) until the 17th of this month.

?????????????

Seriously. They want me to rebook and not even know exactly where the dang ship is going.

All these changes in itineraries we enjoy are forcing us to book more with Royal Caribbean.

We still have two Cruise Rewards Deposit things that we will use and we'll see how it goes after that...but in the mean time, I do have a Royal Cruise booked for January to the Southern Caribbean because NCL doesn't offer that any longer.

Again, I didn't mind the increase in the DSC...and any other charges that people complained about didn't bother me. I understand that costs increase...but don't keep pulling my cruises out form under me and then NOT giving me better options to rebook...and don't eliminate great itineraries.

Perfect response. Im not going to fault those that enjoy the promos while paying a higher fare. I get it, honestly I do. However, for someone like me who is not a drinker, and only eats once or twice in a speciality restaurant on a cruise the promos are not worth a higher cost to me. Ive stated in other threads and not to beat a dead horse but the biggest deal breaker to me is the elimination of interline rates once Del Rio took over. I was floored when I called several months back to book the Escape, when I asked about those rates my PCC said, we no longer offer those. I was told that if I wanted to book those rates, I needed to go to my airlines HR office to get those rates or book directly with ID90 (booking tool for airline employees). Well thats all fine and dandy, but if those rates are eliminated no matter where I go to book, I won't be able to get those rates. It now makes NCL vastly higher when compared to similar cruises offered by Carnival and RCI. Now with all the other changes, I just don't know what the product is going to be for my Escape cruise so I canceled it. I decided to branch out and give MSC Divina a try this fall. I got the MSC Yacht Club for only $200 more than my Balcony on Escape plus MSC made me feel welcome by matching my loyalty status from Carnival. Makes me feel appreciated and I haven't even stepped onboard one of their vessels.

You mean affordable for you?

 

FDR has explicitly stated he wants to move away from "affordable" cruising and into higher dollar / higher value cruising.

 

I'm excited by the strategy. Am already looking at something new for late 2016 & 2 more in 2017.

 

 

Stephen

 

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These itineraries that were recently announced are going to be out of the price point for the overwhelming majority of NCL's core demographic when not factoring flight cost alone.

Really not sure why NCL customers on CC continually bash each other instead of calmly discussing points of view. In any case, I have some news from Seatrade Cruise News from today (see below), and would like to respond to a few comments:

 

eroller: You do not have to sail on a cruise line in order to understand the strategy of the management team (not claiming that I know everything but the changes that have been made so far are bringing about positive financial results.)

 

Hendricks Clan: Just a slight correction.... I did not say that passengers of Oceania and Regent affect NCL's bottom line. Since you mentioned it, the loss of customers from Oceania and Regent would affect the bottom line of NCHL.

 

Swedish weave: Another slight correction. Frank Del Rio did not sell Regent and Oceania ...... PCH (Prestige Cruise Holdings) did.

 

For some factual information, you may want to check out Seatrade Cruise News..... the title of the article is "Higher Ticket and On-board spending lift NCHL Q2". The first couple of sentences are: "Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings chalked up a second quarter profit of $171.6m, or 75 cents per share, 2 cents higher than Wall Street expectations and ahead of the 58 cents a year ago." (Note: A year ago meaning when Sheehan was still there). There is a lot more there to read - check it out.

You suggested in a previous post that Regent and Oceania passengers could affect the bottom line more so than those who are on NCL. That reality is just false. The NCL fleet is much larger, carries vastly more passengers from various price points.

Thanks for explaining this. Much appreciated. I think one-off itineraries are great and if NCL has more of them then more opportunity to cruise off the beaten path so to speak.

Unfortunately, I don't see it that way. Del Rio said himself, that they were taking the least profitable ships and redeploying them. What also happens is that it takes capacity away from other destinations, thus causing an increase in the fare...demand with less availability gives you "scarcity."

Don't think for a second, that these new Asia and Australia cruises will be affordable. Look at RCCL. They get roughly 60-75% higher cruise fares on those sailings compared to any other itinerary they offer.

Hi motleyfan: Haven't checked this board in a while and find the same people saying the same things and still agree with you! Those posters who try to suggest that FDR had anything to do with Renaissance going out of business does not have a clue what really happened (specifically the effect of "9/11") I truly wish that the naysayers would simply go to another cruise line and see if it meets their expectations instead of spending all of their time complaining!

 

FDR has been very successful with Oceania and Regent If he were no longer CEO, a lot of loyal passengers would leave (and remember ....... the fare to sail on Regent, for instance, is upwards of $1,000/day. It would take a lot of NCL passengers to leave to equal the impact that losing Regent passengers would bring.)

 

While I understand that change is difficult, it is necessary sometimes. motleyfan -- keep doing what you're doing!!!!:)

Coming from someone who has never stepped foot on an NCL vessel. So let me get this straight. As part of the senior management team, Del Rio had no part whatsoever in cutting out travel agent bookings, he had no part whatsoever in over $1 billion worth of debt that Renaissance had accumulated before 9/11, and Del Rio had nothing to do with the fact that Oceania was unprofitable and in debt and thus sold out for a much needed cash infusion by Apollo?

To suggest that if the loyal passengers of Regent/Oceania would affect the bottom line more than NCL, thats absurd. While I haven't looked into the financials to see, I'm 99.9% certain NCL is the most profitable and the bread winner for the shareholders and affects the bottom line more than Regent/Oceania.

Have you been on a Norwegian Cruise since the changes have been made? Why cancel a cruise when in reality you don't know if the changes are going to bug you as much while you're on board? I see everybody who has a beef with the new changes should try a Norwegian cruise and see how you feel? If you still don't like it then stop cruising Norwegian

Yes I have. What is your problem with people disagreeing with what NCL is doing? Every time something changes that takes something away that was previously available, you hail the move as if its the best thing since slice bread. I started looking around almost immediately once FDR came on as one of his first moves was to eliminate interline rates. When I inquired about an interline rate I was told by my PCC, that I needed to book directly with my airlines HR office or ID90. Well thats all good and well if the rate is offered. Once its eliminated no matter how many times I click on NCL on ID90 its not going to give me an interline rate. When I can sail other lines at a vastly reduced rate, NCL becomes uncompetitive for me especially when you add in all the other changes/cutbacks. I'm starting to think you work for NCL and get paid to pump the company's sunshine on every topic thats discussed here.

Found this interesting... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-nclh-earnings-conference-200040754.html

FDR: "On our last call, I discussed weaving the Oceania and Regent market strategies into the Norwegian brand, along with changing the conversation with consumers from one focused on low prices to one focused on high value. This time, I'd like to focus on another related strategy, that being creating scarcity of offerings to drive higher yields."

I really enjoyed the DIVINA. Strong points were the ship itself (gorgeous), the spacious pool decks, the gym, the entertainment, and the cabins. Food and service were spotty but I bet they will be greatly improved this season. I can't wait for the new MSC SEASIDE. Absolutely amazing looking ship. I also did the loyalty match. Sent MSC my Elite credentials with Princess and they gave me Black status, their highest level. Pretty cool program! If you search the MSC board I wrote a pretty extensive review of DIVINA with a link to tons of photos I took.

 

Anyway I think you are going to love it, especially in the Yacht Club.

Thanks for the info and I'll be sure to check out your review. For our Escape cruise we paid roughly $1,600pp so when we decided to cancel and decided on MSC we saw the Yacht Club for $1,850pp we jumped on it! The Seaside does look amazing! Due to the loyalty match program, I already fill like MSC appreciates my business so looking forward to trying it!