Interestedcruisefan

6 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

This is clearly not the American model, which the cruise industry is patterning itself after.  In my state, the minimum wage is just under $16.  But waiters receive $6.38 and bartenders receive $8.23.  Tips are expected to top up these numbers so that the worker receives no less than $16 per hour.  If the tips fail to do that, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.

That will be outlawed in USA soon enough like every other civilised country is doing

And in those locations the money is going to servers and kitchens staff who have earnt tips through good service

We know who we are tipping and why

On a cruise ship we are basically subsidising wages of the entire staff on board? 

That's not how tips work?

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

I'm not sure where you live, but this is definitely not the case in my state.  In my state, waiters and bartenders receive a much lower minimum wage and tips are expected to top up wages in order to bring the worker to, or above the state mandated minimum wage for non-tipped workers.  And if the tips fall short, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.  

 

The cruise industry is simply mirroring the American model of how restaurants have always paid its workers, and how tips are used to bring the wage up to the legal level.  If we think of a cruise ship as a giant restaurant, then this entire issue becomes much less concerning.  Certain restaurants, such as those in the Danny Meyer Group, have abolished tipping and they pay all workers at or above the state mandated minimum wage right out of the shoot.  Menu prices have been raised to reflect this paradigm.  A cruise line could do the same thing.  Your cruise fare could increase $17 per day ($120 for a 7 day cruise) and they could advertise "no tipping."  I am not at all sure why certain people would rejoice at this.  Money is money, and in grade school, we learned about the transitive property of addition. $1,000 fare + $120 in gratuities = $1,120 in fare with no tipping required.  But as the Chief noted in his one and only post, the current system does serve as a self-policing watchdog where each crew member is outwardly trying to do their best so that they (or their Team) get a bigger chunk of the reward. If all the money is collected up front and paid out as a flat salary to the crew members with no bonus or reward structure in place, does anyone think that the quality of service would improve?  Your cost will remain as is, but will the level of service?  

It's about transparency

And at the moment calling what they deduct from our cards on Princess "gratuities"

Is the very opposite of transparency

And I say it again it's very misleading to passengers and deceptive

It's only on places like here you get to realise the reality 

When I pay for a cruise I'm paying a lot of money for a holiday. That should cover the cost of staff that I will never even see on the cruise

If I want to tip staff who serve me well (which I do) then that money is for them serving me well

100 per cent put the cruise prices up take away the deception and let us tip staff and them receive the tip

We don't even need to discuss the ins and outs of anything like this to try and cover for what the cruise ships are doing or defend them

As it stands they are hoodwinked a larger percentage of guests

I've cruised 16 years on over 6 cruiselines now so reasonably expereinced

And it's only now I fully understand what's happening when I don't tip cabin stewards direct and trust the cruiseline to do it for me

I'm pretty angry tbh when I see it in black and white as shown in the opening post

I didn't realise it was that cynical and blatant although I did suspect

I'm just too trusting I guess

1 hour ago, coolbreeze!!!! said:

This really is no different than the restaurant industry since we do not know what our local restaurants are paying their waitstaff. I agree the feel good title "Employee Appreciation" is misleading to us but apparently well understood by the Princess employees. I treat the 18% gratuity as a cost of sailing and then provide cash tips to those going above and beyond what I expected.

My daughter is in the hospitality industry. From UK but working in Canada currently on a 3 year visa 

She's a chef her boyfriend is a server

They've worked several locations

Every location they get an hourly wage above minimum wage and then gratuities are all for the staff team on top of that

The servers get the most but then contribute a portion to the kitchen team behind them to share

But the tips are not used in any way to subsidise wages

Similar  in UK hospitality. It's illegal to do what's happening on cruises. 

Tips are shown separately on wageslips as well now. There's strict rules about this

So staff aren't exploited

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

I believe that most cruisers believe that by paying the gratuities, they are tipping those crew members on their cruise who provided good or exceptional services.  They very well may not be.  The gratuities paid, as stated in the Princess paperwork, go into a pool, controlled by Princess and distributed by Princess throughout the fleet!  Your room steward may never see a dime of the gratuities you paid and the same for those in the dining room who served you so well.  

If I go to a restaurant and the wait staff does an excellent job, I don't hand the owner extra money to be put in his or her pocket, to be distributed, throughout the year to all those who work at the restaurant.  Why should it be any different when cruising.  With the exception of our very first cruise (we are now over 50), we have always removed the gratuities, obtained small envelopes from Customer Service desk, and given tips directly to the persons who went above and beyond to see to it that we enjoyed our cruise.  

And if they cruise were dispersing the gratuities as extra tips for everyone fairly across the ship then it's acceptable

But when smallprint shows our tips are actually just paying normal staff compensation and bonus that's entirely UNACCEPTABLE

Just found this which suggests it's a price drop since launch

Or would the price below be when you do a select price? Rather than saver price?

• Iona will set sail for a new 35-night holiday to the Caribbean on January 11, 2025. It will be Iona’s first time to the Caribbean and will include two full days in Tenerife and Barbados with visits to many maiden ports. Departing from and returning to Southampton, ports of call include Tenerife, Tortola, Barbados, St Lucia, Grenada, Antigua, St Kitts, St Maarten and La Coruna. Prices start from £2,579 per person (G501).

Hi guys

Anyone remember what price this cruise started at when launched?

Inside saver currently 2408 per person

Wasn't sure if that's an increase or decrease?

I've lost track and can't find the thread we first discussed it on

MB are you out there today. You are normally great at remembering stuff like this?

6 minutes ago, Bgwest said:

Nonsense.  
Let them pay THEIR employees a decent wage. Period. And consequently adjust the cruise fare to suit. 
Then if a customer CHOOSES to tip, said tip is a reward for exemplary service and is above and beyond their full base salary.
NOT a scam whereby the cruiseline shirks the responsibility to pay THEIR employees and try’s to shift THEIR responsibility to the passenger. 

Exactly

If you go in restaurants and bars on the land the gratuities do have to go to the staff and it's on top of their wages

It's not used to top up wages

The law makes sure of that

Same law should apply to cruise holidays

It's giving cruise ships an unfair advantage over land holiday suppliers come to think of it with this deception they are using

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'll make my typical "one and done" post to a tipping thread.  DSC (I refuse to call them "gratuities", regardless of what the cruise line calls them), is, and always has been the majority of the crew's "compensation package".  In the past, the DSC made up more of the total compensation, and today, there is a minimum wage requirement (more on this later), but even today, the DSC makes up more than half of the crew's compensation.  This is clearly spelled out in their employment contract, that "x" amount is monthly wage, and "y" amount is DSC, which is spelled out as variable depending on passenger participation.

 

As for the minimum wage I mentioned above, the typical cabin steward pay is around $1200-1400/month, but the minimum wage is only $666/month this year.  Until the removal of DSC reaches the point where the crew are receiving less than the minimum $666/month, the cruise line does not have to make up the difference.

 

Whether or not a cruise line uses DSC to pay the crew or not, if they didn't, they would just raise the cruise fare to cover what the labor market would require as total compensation for the crew.  There are two reasons the cruise lines use DSC:

1.  It allows them to post the lowest possible cruise fare

2.  It provides them with a "carrot and stick" management of the crew's service by making it dependent on every crew member to self-police their colleagues in order to get the maximum compensation, and allows the cruise line to shift the "blame" for reducing the compensation to the passenger.

 

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

I get all that

But the passenger isn't at fault here. It's the cruise line. We aren't the guilty ones. 

It's the cruise lines problem to sort. And yes if that means increasing the up front cruise fare so be it. 

Transparency over deception

As it is there's an awful lot of cruisers being deceived into thinking money they are paying is actually gratuities 

When clearly it's not

Governments or authorities  should step in and sort it out if the cruise lines won't do it themselves

41 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I think you'll find that, for every organisation in the world that has customers and staff, it is the customers who are paying the staff.  Where other than from its customers do you think a cruise line should obtain the funds by which it compensates its crew?

But they are calling it gratuities and playing on the goodwill of passengers ?

It's blatant false marketing/advertising?

It's blatantly trying to deceive people IMO

They should have to call it what it is when they take money from your card ie "staff compensation" rather than decisive passengers In thinking this is an extra "gratuity" for staff

100 per cent Princess deceived me with it last month

Won't happen again to me. But shouldn't be happening to anyone

In this day and age when businesses are suppose to be ethical and show transparency in how they operate

1 hour ago, ecs66 said:

That stood out to me, as well!!  Those people work their a$$es off, and it seems the cruise line is making their lives even worse.  Is that what this means?

 

We'll probably sneak/slip cash to the good ones, if that's the case.  I have been blasted on other threads for saying/doing this, but I think that's only fair.

Don't apologise 

This is blatantly not what you consider would be happening with tips!

And you know what the staff themselves would never be  able to tell you this themselves

You have to find it in the smallprint

Basically staff tips on Princess is being used to pay staff wages 

Simple as that

And it's out in the open now

5 hours ago, arizonaperson said:

@Kineticoh20

I don’t think we as passengers will ever know the formula & how the crew actually gets their tips and how much, etc. I think we just need to pay them and move on ,but of course that’s my opinion. It’s honestly such a small amount that is “mandatory gratuities”. The crew gets paid a wage ,whatever their contract says and then gratuities if their job is part of that “ program”.

Definitely,no worries ,cruise on.

 

 

No disagree entirely

Any cruise I cruise on from now on I'm removing any tips and paying cash to those who serve me well

I've been hoodwinked into thinking I'm helping my cabin steward for example when in fact I am much better helping him direct

It's all a big con trick being honest to just charge you more to pay staff costs in an underhand way

Leave tips to customer choice and take away the sham

Like some other cruise lines do

Zero tips added on P and O and if you choose to tip then that's fine but not needed

They just pay everyone a salary and you cover that cost with your upfront payment

12 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We are going to Haven in July, just before the kids break up. 2 weeks later and a week is £2,000. They don't have any inside caravans.😂

Even shepherds huts are expensive now

80 to 130 pounds per night for two!

Come to think of it just putting a tent up in a campsite has become expensive

My son and daughter are on a months road trip in Canada and having to sleep in their car (it's a kind of camper car they fitted a mattress in) because the campsites in the nice location charge too much to put tents up

Cheapest most basic caravans on Haven now in school holidays for family of 4 for a week would be 800 plus per week with no meals etc

Upto about 1,700 per week for the nicest caravans

It's more than we would pay for nice villas abroad in the past

1 hour ago, Cathygh said:

I was looking at land based holidays recently and was shocked at the prices. A couple I was tracking went up quite a lot, both in the 8 weeks before departure. Hence we have booked a last minute river cruise, It's still very expensive but still much cheaper than the standard price. I want to see if they are worth it. Lead in prices seem to be £200+ per night. 

 

A young family we know go on a haven holiday every year

They can't afford to do it this year as its become so expensive now

Can't answer re later in the evenings as we go to bed quite early

But each day on the Caribbean cruises they  would have a DJ start next to one of the pools in the afternoons (the time would depend on whether a sea day or not)

It was always pre-advertised where and when so you could either avoid or head there depending on your preference!!

Lol

But would always be some people dancing on the decks when they happened 

And we enjoyed being there when it happened. Great atmosphere. Nice to sit in the hot tubs with a cocktail whilst it was on

They play dance anthems music. Proper djs playing dance music

Wouldn't appeal to all of course but it's just one area and always advertised

Whenever it happened everybody seemed to enjoy the vibe and atmosphere it created as well (young and old)

Think it happened pretty much every day but not always same pool area 

Good to see plenty of positive reports coming back from Arvia now. From very experienced cruisers as well which is a good sign. Seems a long time since we heard of any horror stories with them

I do believe they have become a well oiled machine. Providing guests know how to get the most out of the ships. Which is obviously a learning curve for guests just like we all went through at some stage with all cruises

I can add to the above that we also had another great 2 week cruise with them In February. 

710 club remains by far my favourite entertainment venue on ANY holiday anywhere. It's just spot on what they deliver in there night after night.

Mizhuana and Green and Co were great meals. It's great to eat meals and actually feel healthier at the end of the meal than when you started! The experience in those restaurants has actually changed the way I eat at home a bit as well 

Epicurean as good as ever. Also lots of great meals in MDR. 

Zero issues with queues anywhere. The app worked perfectly all cruise. (Must be a long time now since we heard any issues about the app going down as well)

Even Wi-Fi there were no outages anywhere that I saw to allow me to try and claim any of my Wi-Fi spend back like the year before

We might not do Arvia or Iona Caribbean next year purely because we fancy going further afield for a cruise. (weve recently done South Africa on Azamara and Alaska with Princess so we are getting around)

Azamara from Cape Town really gave us the small ship experience many rave about. The ship could hold 900 passengers approx but we had only 450 on board!

And we totally get why people would love the small ship experience. We loved it as well. But then again we always enjoy every cruise regardless. 

Princess we were expecting much higher levels and can honestly say we weren't impressed. The fact they charge more than P and O led me to expect a better experience that we just didn't get. We still had a great cruise holiday regardless. If anyone ever cruise from Vancouver please let me warn you that embarkation from there is horrible. Queue after queue after queue. Over 2.5 hrs of queues for us to endure before we got on the ship. You have been warned. (Southampton does it so much better!!)

But whatever we do next winter we know we won't get the same value for money as P and O offer on their Caribbean cruises on the big ships thats for sure 

The Caribbean cruises on P and O big ships in the winter months IMO remain  the best value Caribbean holiday you could ever do in terms of what you get for your spend.

And it's good that the positive reports about Arvia far outweigh the bad on here right now

Iona never got the same bad press and I think is now accepted as being a great ship already

And arvia offers more choices than iona

I would say the more people use apps the more they get out of these ships

And many Iona and Arvia guests will be repeat customers now knowing how everything works on board these types of ship

Which certainly helps as well

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

Currently sat on Arvia and agree with most points, but not all. 
 

MDR evening meals are as usual not as good as the MDR lunchtime meals, both a poorer selection and a more rushed delivery - I guess they are just under more pressure in the evenings. 
 

Disappointing that the version of the Olive Grove is not the same as Iona, so the same menu as the MDR at lunchtimes which reduces choice. And then the evening menu is a ‘dumbed down’ version of that on Iona, presumably because the food is prepared in the MDR kitchen and not a dedicated kitchen. 

Interesting 

That's the first time I've heard someone say MDR lunch was better than MDR evening

Never done MDR lunch on arvia but always thought lunch was a really limited menu and we would be better in buffet or Quays or the burger bar next to the pool?

Or come to think of it US  diner is decent for lunch on arvia?

So MDR lunch is good?

If it's a fly cruise you risk flights from suitable airports not being available even iF the cruise is available

40 minutes ago, Sussexboy said:

I think that Captain Camby is a connoisseur of vintage joke books!

 

Having just returned from Arvia myself, I agree with much of the original post. One thing I would add, and it has been said before, is that the ship is understaffed. Having recently been on NCL Prima, the staff there were more numerous, and smiled a lot more. That said I cannot fault the team in the Crows Nest and the Epicurean. They were magnificent, and treated my wife and I like a King and Queen for the fortnight.

 

After reading many comments we were unsure about the dining arrangements. We found the virtual queueing to work very well, and the food was a very acceptable standard. In some cases it was very good, and not a green bean in sight.

 

Right, I am off to look for Captain Cambys grandmother who has been walking 5 miles a day for the past few years. He apparently has no idea where she is…….

Sounds like he repeats the same jokes each cruise!

Lol

Yes he's good at putting smiles on faces!

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I've fully embraced Warners as my main holiday choice, and I'm not a crusty old cruiser, wedded to how 'it was done' 25 years ago.

 

Warner's have sucessfully managed to appeal to a wide range of adults aged approx 45 and above. The mid week breaks tend to be a bit quieter as its mainly the retired crowd, but the weekends, especially the festivals are far from the 80+ elderly crowd that you seem to be imagining.  Even the mid-week breaks can be lively - last Tuesday I was in a conga line with a Boy George tribute act, singing 'Church of the Poison Mind'. Something I've never done on a cruise ship!   

I did Warner Hayling Island aged 26 (29 years ago) with my wife (then girlfriend) and enjoyed it

I much prefer cruising though

1 minute ago, Windsurfboy said:

Sorry  to be clear only before  6.30  and after  8pm available 

But isn't that fine?

It's still availability and it's still a choice

Early or late?

Like MDR

So if needed they can re-use a table (not sure if they do)

But like I say use my insider tip.

Book early ones and then on first night ask if they can be pushed back

And I'm sure they will try to help 

They want to help you

4 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I’d expect free slots to be available across all channels, whether it was online  or in person 

If they were they wouldn't remain free slots and the degree of flexibility would be lost?

Similarly they keep 6 slots back for every session of 710 club for walk ups and that's not counting no shows who free up more slots

Friends we made on arvia in Feb joined us every night without bookings in 710 club thanks to that policy

2 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I don’t understand why they seem to restrict what times are available on the app. If you can eat at 6pm surely you should be able to book it on the app, rather than spending time seeing if you can be fitted in on the off chance 

Because they have a degree of flexibility to help people who ask to be helped 

Meanwhile the software spreads bookings more evenly in the restaurants throughout the night and week and throughout the dining areas on the ship

When we do sold out hospitality events they also have tables for 10 deliberately set up in the venue for problems or issues 

That 99 times out of 100 remain empty

2 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Wouldn’t it be easier if more slots for all times were available on the app, rather than having to go to the maitre d and spending time telling him what you want ? 

It's literally a one minute chat I have with him after my first meal in his restaurant providing I want to book more with him and/ or swap anything

It's not a special journey. It's not a difficult or long chat. 

3 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Do you know why they don’t make all the slots available on the app? 
 

I’m happy to use technology to make bookings both before and during the cruise - but if they are restricting what’s available, it adds to my perception that the booking system is ‘problematic’. I don’t particularly want to have to go to each venue to see if they can fit me in. 

Restaurants everywhere do this?

On land as well

It's not problematic it's how to spread bookings?

The software is designed to do that