Whipsnade

Not surprised. Explora now picking the bottom of bund barrel with TAs so far down many have never sold a cruise. They are cannibalising the few paying guests. And now second ship “delayed”. No info about 3,4,5 and 6. When is Aponte going to pull the plug?

With no statistical knowledge I do believe the market today has grown substantially since that time. Baby boomers are retiring in droves with fat 401s. Many of them are aspirational as we all pretty much are. Crystal is the only game at the top of the pyramid. However most cruise lines are missing the mark and think they should be chasing 50 year olds in mid career. This is a losing game. Let’s hope Crystal does not fall into this trap. Room for three Crystal ships? Scary. Probably. But would I risk a billion on it? Probably not.

ER!!! Yikes. That’s why Genting went bust! If that happens we will all be looking for a new home.

I will be riding with Ryndam.

Word I get is there are plenty of TAs and “influencers” on Explora. Only TAs I saw on Symphony this winter were paying Family and Friends rate. Nary an “influencer” in sight. Sure hope Symphony will be around in 29. My favorite ship. If not, that would leave Crystal with one ship as there will not be a new Crystal ocean ship by then unless they buy one of the Explora hulls MSC will not be needing. How’s that Stick? Enough to get you riled?

Ms C hits it on the head. Because of low pax counts on both ships they may be having difficulty getting financial commitments for new builds. When we were in Symphony this winter they only had 300 pax on one cruise. All the rest were 200 or less. An all new luxury ship likely is close to a billion bucks. d’Ovidio has deep pockets but not that deep. The Apontes own MSC and they have so much cash from their freight business they don’t need $$ from outside to build six Explora ships. Best idea was for Crystal to buy a couple of the Explora ships already contracted for at a good price. Apontes must realize by now their huge error in deciding to build six ships for a non existent market.

Family 1 are Italian owners of MSC and subsidiary Explora. Family 2, also Italian are half owners of Crystal and former owner of Silversea. Both families have deep pockets although family 1 has a pocket so derp there is no bottom. Hulls are what we call ships as they are being built before they are far enough along to be called ships.

From your lips to God’s ear. I agree wholeheartedly. Wouldn’t if could be wonderful if AK/Crystal could pick up the four hulls the other family has on order at a good price?

A Nile boat and an Amazon boat are not even ships. I stand by my prediction there will not be a new Crystal ship, ocean or expedition before 2030.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/With-expansion-Crystal-has-plan-to-fill-new-ships

Travel Weekly and other pubs. July 23.

Before we all get too excited about new ships let’s look back to last July when Levis announced plans to “begin construction on one new ocean ship and one expedition ship by the second quarter of 2024”. Oh wait, the second quarter is almost over and not even an announcement of a contract let alone begin construction. And we all know every major yard is chock a block with new builds for other lines for the next couple of years. So we shouldn’t start saving our pennies for an Inaugural Cruise anytime soon. I know this will get some of you in a snit but it is reality. I doubt we will see a new Crystal ship until 2030. At the earliest.

Well put and well reasoned. Also good recollection of luxury cruise history. Many RVL pax migrated to Crystal when Crystal became “the best” and RVL went kaput. The one dynamic you left out is longevity. Back then you were pretty much dead by late 70s and certainly by 80. Now many pax (including us) are in our mid 80s and still quite active. We are booked into 26 and hope to still be cruising into early 90s. We can do most things the 50 year olds can do but it just takes us a little longer. This age group didn’t really exist back then and there were no windfalls from 401s back then. So we have the health and the money and we love the service we get in ships. We should be a major target market for the next cohort of luxury ships that I hope are now being planned.

I agree with Berlin and disagree somewhat with Noggins. Deck Seven is perfect for many, especially for singles and others for whom a veranda is not a must. Certainly I agree no matter how good the restaurants on board are land based restaurants can be (not always) better. We always seek them out and compare to Waterside. Not infrequently Waterside wins out over Michelin caliber shoreside venues. A good game for us. But the ship restaurants on all the other “luxury” ships are repetitive and boring after ten days. Crystal is the exception not the rule. As far as Explora is concerned they do have the most beautiful well designed ship currently at sea. But with the product they have they are seeking a much younger crowd and I contend this does not exist in sufficient numbers to fill two ships let alone six. Someone did not do their homework. Those 45 to 60 year olds simply do not have the time and money to make the brand profitable. Think TAs, “influencers” and discount prices. While Crystal is seeking 60 to 90 year olds with tons of money in their 401s and no more kids to educate or mtges to pay. And they are in good health! The latter market is where the real coin exists. Enter Crystal.

Explora is a flash in the pan. They can’t fill one ship with even discounted paying passengers. How are they going to fill six? Not that many TAs and influencers in the world. Now that baby boomers with fat 401s are retiring there is plenty of money be spent by new seniors. The only real luxury ships are A&K Crystal. If they stuck to that they will have this end if the market all to themselves.

I really doubt new Crystal will abandon Deck 7 and some smaller cabins in new ships. There are quite a lot of folks, especially singles who lust after these accommodations. If I became single in my dotage I might try one myself. Why in the world would I need a Sapphire if I were ninety and alone? Certainly I would want all the things Crystal offers (and am happy to pay for) forever. Methinks D’vidio and Kent are quite savvy enough to know this. I sure hope they don’t go the Explora route and try to build ships that they think appeals to 40 and 50 somethings. Those folks are not the market Explora thinks. Their model is doomed to failure for a variety of reasons. There is still a HUGE market (and growing) in 6o, 70,80 and 90 year olds who have the money and time for a Crystal product.

Better move fast on Symphony 24. Many Sept Oct cruises are booked solid already. We will have to change cabins twice on 45 day cruise Sept/Oct cruise that I booked three months ago.

I suspect the 26 itinerary for Symphony will be pretty much similar to 25. As they are finishing up the year in the Gulf they will probably head east to Mumbai and then a couple months in Asia before heading back to the Med in mid April. If that is the case we will be on board for the whole ride as it incorporates all of the great stops in Asia and then comes back to Saudi fir the first time and Petra before Med in late April. Of course that assumes the Houthis have gone back to tending their goats by then. We are hopeful that because if their ownership by A&K there will be some excellent overland excursions as well. Hard to give an estimate for Serenity post WC. I cannot imagine what is taking so long. I am not booking anything else in 26 until they release as Crystal is my first choice.

The pool water on both ships is, indeed, sea water. However both ships have heaters and claim that they heat the pool water to 82 degrees. As I swim almost every day wherever I am I know this to be false. Was on Symphony two months this winter and complained to Staff Captain several times who did turn the heater on which brought it up to 79 although he claimed it was 82. Next cruise I will be bringing my own pool thermometer. Jacuzzis have virtually no power. Staff claim they will fix it in “next port”. Waiting for parts. Never happens. Heat is right about 104 and quite comfortable.

I have been told before end of June.

We have used emailed Luggage Forward tags but strongly advise they be put in secured plastic envelopes.

Still waiting for mine. Supposed to come by wire.

Same experience for us. We will not be back.

So many good reasons to never sail Explora again!!

Speaking as an older (mid 80s) mobility challenged cruiser I feel the frustration of younger pax when slowed down on gangway. I used to feel that way until we got this way. We can still go and do most of the stuff we used to do but it just takes us longer. I do agree we feel more comfortable with pax in similar straits. And I think younger pax are perfectly justified in wanting to be around their similar cohort. That’s life. So we feel more comfortable on Crystal than Explora.