Downdie

It took CC about 2 years to provide a dedicated MSC forum after I sailed on the Opera and reviewed it in Oct 2004 ( the forum,s first) The forum appeared only after MSC sailed from a US port.

My first of 5 Pullmantur cruises was from Santo Domingo in Feb 2007 and it's taken 11 years to find a dedicated Pullmantur forum, probably because they will never sail from the US.

Still nice to finally have one.

Azamara cruise line did exactly what you said. Royal bought them from Renaissance for Celebrity who ran them a short period of time before they spun them off as their own line.

Actually that is incorrect. RCCL bought a cruiseline and travel agency and four 747's to obtain the two ships that became the Journey and the Quest for Azamara. That company was Spain's Pullmantur, which just happens to be one of the cruiselines that cruisemom42 sees as a model for those who prefer smaller ships. Having now sailed on Spanish ships for my last five cruises, I can attest to them being well above camping out standard as a larger number of English speaking passengers are finding out.

Rustbuckets they may be, but they were RCCL's choice for their only European cruiseline at the time they were sent. The Horizon,Zenith,Sovereign and Monarch are all performing well.

However, RCCL is now a minority owner of Pullmantur, so consequently there have been improvements in onboard experiences.

Cruisemom2 - I could not agree more about your favourite small ship. I sailed on her when she was the Aegean Dolphin for Dolphin Hellas in 1995, just after the Greeks had converted her to a neat little cruiser from a 1972 built ro/ro ferry.

I've found this website to be helpful.

www.pullmantur.es/en/

And if you want a list of their all-included drinks.

http://pullmantur.es/en/unlimited-drinks

Hello we sail in February on our Honeymoon, can you post any pictures you get please and dinner menus :D

Here are current dinner menues http://pullmantur.es/en/gastronomy

From a four time happy Pullmantur client.

Actually Azamara is an upscale not ultra premium cruise line IMHO. However I suppose I could see how it might be considered Ultra Premium based upon Pullmantur's pricing. Having just sailed Azamara for the first time, I found it much more enjoyable for the price for me than many of my Celebrity cruises that got me to their Elite loyalty level.

 

 

But since you've never sailed Azamara and don't like their ships, why even bother posting like you did? It serves no useful purpose. You might enjoy going over to the Celebrity board and doing the same about their Edge ship. It's really expensive compared to some other of their cruise ships. ;p

Hi Steve: At no point did I state I did not like Azamara's ships, I"ve sailed on them after all, but they are third hand ships. My whole point is that after about ten years in business they should be thinking newbuilds.

RCCL's German partner TUI started up about the same time with two second handers Galaxy and Mercury from Celebrity as Mein Schiff 1 and 2, but have since had a couple of new ships built.

I would never think of criticizing Celebrity on the CC boards for the cruise pricing on a brand new state of the art ship that the Edge is.

Have you ever actually sailed on an Azamara Club Cruises ship or are you just an armchair expert?

 

She goes into dry dock in the Bahamas for inspection and then I think across to Europe to be "reimagined". Lots to do!

 

Phil

Hi Phil: I have to admit I have never posted on the Azamara board because I haven't sailed with them, and I doubt I ever will.

I have sailed on their current two ships when they sailed in the Caribbean for Pullmantur as the Blue Dream and Blue Star before the RCCL takeover.

As well I have no problem with older ships, in fact I rather prefer them if they are proven quality vessels.

My list includes Pullmantur's Holiday Dream ( Europa and now Saga Sapphire), Oceanic, Horizon, Zenith, and Gemini ( Cunard Crown Jewel and now Celestyal Nephili), among others.

Most of these were on mainstream or budget lines at appropriate price points.

Ultra premium cruises, and their higher tariffs on older, refurbished hand me down ships is not appropriate IMHO.

What ! Another third or fourth hand ship from a budget line to impress the clients on a so called premium line. Not impressed.

Hi Barb: I happen to be one who enjoys sailing in the Med late October, early November - no crowds, no heat , good deals and you never know what excitement you'll get. For example my last two 7-night cruises as follows:

a 7 night repositioning from Ravenna , Italy to Malaga, Spain included lovely sunny low 20's weather in Venice, Split Croatia, Katakolon and Corfu Greece, as well as Messina Sicily. Cagliary Sardinia was rather different, Strong winds and torrential rain necessitated two tugs for docking our 50,000 ton ship and the water ran down the steep streets of the city in torrents. Our night and next sea day to Malaga were a real rock and roll adventure and we were five hours late into port. I thought it was wonderful, the majority on board didn't.

My next 7 nighter out of Marseilles started out again sunny low 20's, as it was in Valetta Malta, Trapani Sicily, Civitivechia and Livorno Italy, slightly damp and windy in Ajaccio Corsica, and cold 3C and rainy back in Marseilles.

So you pays your money and takes your chance.

It was just that one summer, originally they were planned to stay with Celebrity but they started Azamara pretty quickly. Prior to that summer Zenith and Horizon were both going to Bermuda in the summer, one left NYC on Saturday and the other on Sunday. We did both in different years.

 

Journey and Quest both came from Renaissance Cruises which went out of Business. Ironically, Renaissance Cruise had I think 8 fairly new ships and in the late 90s were sort of ahead of their times, no children and no smoking.

Journey and Quest were both owned by Pullmantur who had acquired them from the bankrupt Renaissance and sailed them as Blue Dream and Blue Star or vice versa.

These two ships were the reason that RCCL bought Pullmantur, cruise line, travel agency and 4 plane airline(747's) . In return Pullmantur received the bigger but much older Zenith from Celebrity, and a year or so later the ex Celebrity ship Horizon, bigger too and even older from the British line Island cruises.

I think the Spanish got screwed. In fairness they also got Sovereign of the Seas and Monarch of the Seas from RCI.

Since this entire thread is based on speculating, I can join in: Celebrity has no need to sell the M-class ships, even if they feel that 13 is an unlucky number (!). Because RCI is in the process of combining and re-vitalizing the fleets of Pullmantur and CdF -- a couple of M-ships would be a major upgrade to that fleet.

Let's get something straight here. RCCL ( the parent company) owns all the ships in it's diverse fleet, RCI, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur, Tui Germany, Tui UK (Thomsons). It provides brand new ships primarily to RCI and Celebrity and now Tui Germany, but hand me down ships to those lines where it has minority ownership, Pullmantur, Tui UK, and probably Tui Germany, mainly transferred (not sold) from RCI and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

Such ship transfers have occasionally gone the other way. The Empress was re-transferred from Pullmantur to RCI for it's Cuban venture and the Journey and Quest were transferred from Pullmantur several years ago to start up Azamara Cruises. So, not many ship sales really.

We had a Lavazza coffee machine in our suite on the " so called" budget all-inclusive Spanish/French Pullmantur/CDF ship Horizon last November. However, "steerage passengers" are also well looked after, as all Lavazza specialty coffees are free at every bar on the ship.

Thank you so much for your prompt and in depth reply that is a great help. When I booked the royal suite 1103 I wasn't given any information about perks. It has been difficult getting information. There is also some confusion with different sites...some class my cabin as a royal suite and some don't. So I'm hoping you might also clarify if indeed what type of suite it is

Thanks once again for your help

Bill.

Hi Bill: Suite 1103 on Horizon is definitely a Royal suite with balcony,one of the two best accomodations on the ship. We were in 1102 in November 2016 from Marseille under CDF, and our French dinner table mates gave us a tour of their suite 1104, lovely. Separate bedroom and lovely double bathroom with shower and bath.

Lavazza coffee and tea machine and well stocked bar fridge. Sparkling wine fruit basket in suit on embarkation with the fruit basket renewed later in the week. Appetizers or goodies delivered every afternoon.

There is no Waves Club bar on Horizon, but there are many perks for embarkation and debarkation and for dining as previously stated, priority access to the captain on Gala night, significant free internet access etc.

Hope you enjoy your week on Horizon. We did.

Viking Star and her sister ships are about the same size as the former Celebrity Zenith. A more expensive line, but actually when you factor in what's included in the fare with Viking Ocean it's closer than I thought it would be.

 

As you probably know, the Zenith is still sailing for Pullmantur Cruises (in case you want to brush up on your Spanish!)

Have sailed on both Horizon and Zenith with Pullmantur in the past few years and can assure you they still are great little ships despite their age.

Our 20,000 ton ship backed in when we docked in Havana in Nov 2010.

Any photos I've seen of ships docked at the Sierra Maestre cruise terminal were stern first.

At least once every year for the last ten years, I've posted the same post on CC.

Pullmantur the Spanish mainstream cruiseline ( certainly not a luxury line) is the one line that is all-inclusive with drinks non alcoholic and alcoholic included in the cruise fare.

It was in February 2007 when I first sailed and still was in November 2016 when I last sailed on them.

Recent reviews on CC have been good, especially food and service.

I have a theory why that is too.

All Pullmantur ships are all-inclusive with an upcharge for more premium drinks, 1.2 or 3 euros.

Just returned last week from a 7 day CDF Horizon sailing out of Marseille in a balcony suite with Luxe and Prestige service which gave us many perks that we were delighted with.

Athough the Horizon is getting to be a little tired and in need of some TLC the food ,service, entertainment, and the famed all-inclusive beverage package were all very good.

BUT now the bad news for the French is that Pullmantur/RCCL is eliminating The CDF brand at the end of this month.

The Horizon is going to drydock for refurb and will return as a Pullmantur ship sailing from Lanzarote in the Canaries over the winter. The word on the Zenith is less promising, she's apparently being sold to a Chinese outfit if the negotiations are successful.

Century was a C class ship & not stretched. While she was the first, & oldest ship in her class, I think the reason she was the last to go is that she had balconies added to deck 8 & 9 & partially to deck 10, which gave her one additional deck with balconies, as opposed to Galaxy & Mercury. She was built at the dawn of the popularity of balcony rooms. She did lack the aft pool of her sisters, but that did not produce revenue.

 

Horizon also had one balcony added as an experiment, but probably due to their size, Horizon & Zenith were not seen as worth the expense of additional balconies.

Rich: RCCL obviously changed their mind after the Horizon class ships left Celebrity. Both ships have balcony suites now, Horizon with 68 and Zenith with 57. I'll be sailing in one of the Horizon's next week from Marseille.

I'll let everyone know if there is any talk about the Summit's future on that side of the Atlantic.

Perhaps RCCL is transferring her to the Pullmantur line to recompense for the Century to China debacle of a couple of years ago, and for the recall of the Empress to RCI for their as yet delayed Cuba startup. Perhaps Pullmantur's new majority owner believes their owed some extra capacity.

It has been my understanding that companies who had their headquarters in the US could not easily do business with Cuba under the Embargo, which would explain why when Royal purchased Pullmantur in 2006 the sailings to Cuba ceased. There were specific exceptions, none of which would have applied to a cruise line, from what I read in an article from the NY Times.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/business/us-businesses-assess-cuba.html?_r=0

 

In the article I did find it interesting to read that for tourists who will want to go to Cuba and stay in a 5 star hotel that experience may be 10 years away.....but floating hotels like cruise ships could certainly fill that gap, especially if they do an overnight stay.

 

Time will tell of course.

I believe I may have sailed on one exception when sailing from Cozumel to Havana in Nov 2010 on the Spanish cruiseline Happy Cruises. They chartered the ship from ISP of Miami,who managed the ship and I believe are still trying to sell it, although it is currently leased to Celestyal Cruises of Cyprus.

As a matter of interest I've also sailed on three Pullmantur ships

Thank you for your reply Downdie. I looked through some of the hotels listed near the Stazione Principe on the Google map, and I did notice the Agnello D'Oro. I checked the reviews on Trip Adviser and they weren't too bad. The only concern I have is, when I googled the hotel address and looked at the street on Google, I can't get the frontal view of the hotel, but I saw some narrow winding streets with some old, not very attractive types of storefronts. So I wasn't sure if it's located in a decent neighborhood. Could you please tell me more about this hotel, can you walk to the cruise dock from there? We have a medium size luggage with wheels and a knapsack each. Thanks.

Without heavy luggage it's possible to walk to the Stazione Marritima in 10-15 minutes with only one main heavily travelled street to cross.

The reason you don't see the Agnello D'Oro on google is because it's an old converted convent down a pedestrian alley about 50 yards from the Via Balbi which is an OK area.

The hotel and alley is not connected to the area closer to the water which is a much seedier port area of Genoa.

Take the volabus to the bus station at the Stazione Principe, the one nearest to the cruise dock. Less than 5 minute walk down the Via Balbi on the right is the Hotel Agnello D'Oro. Have stayed there twice, pretty reasonable, and very quaint. See the tripadvisor reviews that euro cruiser provided for hotels near Principe.

Just got off of the phone with RCCL and asked if there were any options for eating that were open 24 hours. The lady on the phone told me that the Windjammer was open 24 hours. I didn't think the WJ was open 24 hours :confused: She also told me that the Starbucks was open until 11....so I guess there is going to be a Starbucks on the ship also :) Not sure if that is part of what's being added or if Starbucks was already there.

I'm certain there was no Starbucks onboard the Pullmantur Empress. All the ship's bars had premium Italian brand Lavazza coffees available complimentary as befits an all-inclusive ship. I'm a three time Pullmantur cruiser but, unfortunately, not on Empress.

Which ones do you know have sailed 'their' ship? :cool:

 

I would make a pretty sure guess Micky Arison's wife probably sailed 'her' ship. :)

 

I know that Sophia Loren has been the "godmother" of several of MSC's new ships. and has sailed them.