ukbecky
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Posts posted by ukbecky
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2 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:
You have been SPOT ON in your analysis and presentation of facts in real-time from our Tri-State area! Some people will forever feel their cruise is more important than DOE/College/Food Chain/Safety of Healthcare Workers.
I thank you for all your knowledge and contributing real-time facts from here in a small town of NJ.
🙂
Be safe!Cruise-related chat is common on a cruise board. Best to go elsewhere if it offends.
Just sayin
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5 hours ago, steamboats said:
Seems that even Italian media is regarding this as a rumor spread by foreign media
steamboats
So glad to see this. Even if my cruise ending in Rome is a no-go in October, I'd still like to do a land vacation this fall.
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15 hours ago, ukbecky said:
The number of cases is irrelevant - it depends entirely on whether tests were done or not. This virus was around long before tests were being done.
The whole point of my post was that cruising is not "uniquely life-threatening". That people get sick, always have, for all kinds of reasons. And that the number of deaths on cruise ships is not nearly as high as some expect us to believe.
Because it bears repeating.
Most people are fixating on the number of cases. The point is the number of deaths - a known concrete number. I posted this to make people aware of the number of deaths from Covid-19 on cruises. Which is 65 total for 259 ships carrying tens of thousands of passengers and crew, over quite a few weeks. The Diamond Princess was quarantined on February 4th, so all lines were aware of the danger, and taking action, from at least that date.
Many people, on many ships, got sick - and many people got better. We will never know how many. But we DO know how many died.
No one ever said that people did not get sick, or that few people got sick. People get sick all the time on ships. Who has ever cruised with a guarantee against getting sick? It's not even rare, especially in the winter months. I got the flu on a cruise 2 years ago, despite my yearly flu shot, and it was pretty awful.
The numbers of DEATHS do not lie. So, no, I don't think I am "kidding myself", or that cruising(or any travel) is life-threatening for the average person.
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8 minutes ago, npcl said:
Again when the number of cases was relatively low compared to today.
At one time in the US around the time of the shutdown cruising related cases accounted for 17% of the US total according to a CDC report.
Yes look at the later ships coming in Coral Princess, Celebrity Eclipse, HAL Zaandam, etc. Hundreds of flu like symptoms, but not tested but with dead passengers (Coral, Zaandam) Cruise that started early in March, when cases were low, but still got on board. Had to come back to the US because noone would let them port and off load. Look at ships like the Oasis. Sitting off shore after offloading yet over a hundred cases developing among the crew.
If they had continued cruising and had not shutdown in early March, their number would be much much worse.
The number of cases is irrelevant - it depends entirely on whether tests were done or not. This virus was around long before tests were being done.
The whole point of my post was that cruising is not "uniquely life-threatening". That people get sick, always have, for all kinds of reasons. And that the number of deaths on cruise ships is not nearly as high as some expect us to believe.
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KTJj94nWd88Gml98AbTZKYZejbEJ8q4Xa7oE6g5r9ec/edit#gid=0
Here's the data, courtesy of the Miami Herald.
Confirmed cases are yes, based on testing (and I don't think it's the cruise line doing the testing and/or reporting the numbers). Number of deaths is easy to see and hard to hide.
Regardless of when cruising was 'suspended', the last ship docked last week.
The Diamond Princess outbreak started February 3rd, long before the March suspension. Tens of thousands cruised in the weeks after that, having come in from all over the world.
And yet the numbers don't lie.
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Posted on another thread from https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html
Cruising is not "uniquely life-threatening"- at least, not much more than it ever was.
It is heartbreaking to have any deaths at all, but it's important to maintain some kind of perspective. These numbers are out of tens of thousands of passengers and crew, on 259 ships(almost half owned by Carnival Corp), visiting cities all over the world.
There is no way to make travel 100% safe. We can be healthy when we board, pick up something nasty in a port and unknowingly bring it on board the ship, the airplane, the bus, the subway, the taxi, the car, the restaurant, the buffet, etc etc.
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This is only the 4th month of the year.
As each country opens up within its own borders, the virus will spread - an unfortunate fact.
But as it spreads throughout the local population, some kind of equilibrium will eventually be reached. As fast as this thing moves, it shouldn't take long for nearly all locals to have been exposed. And at that point, I see an opening for tourism. Too many businesses, and entire areas, depend on it - Seriously, what is Nassau doing? Or Santorini? Income from tourism feeds their families. The big cities can labor on, without tourism. But not everyone lives and works in Rome, Paris and Madrid.
As for another lockdown when(not if) the spread resumes and grows? Locking people in their homes keeps everyone safe, no doubt about it.
It's also unrealistic, unsustainable, expensive, highly disruptive and prolongs the inevitable.
More likely that the high-risk will be encouraged to stay safe and at home.
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37 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:
Does this mean that if you book a cruise during hurricane season, and a hurricane is hitting the port when you should be embarking, NCL can just cancel the cruise and keep your money?
Maybe. And the response on this board would be:
"You knew it was hurricane season, you took the chance. Didn't you read the contract?"
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15 hours ago, GoSeaTheWorld said:
So, don’t be surprised if you are informed by Norwegian that you were the one who cancelled, not them. I know, it is ridiculous but it is happening. Florida Attorney General Andrea Moody in Miami might like to hear from you, they are supposed to be investigating NCL sales tactics due to a whistleblower employee reporting that they were trained to mislead during coronavirus cancellations and rebookings. I am sorry to worry you but would like you to be prepared. Feel free to personal message me and I will let you know how things progress with my situation or I’d be happy to update here if anything occurs. I kept calling different Norwegian numbers and found a rep working overflow bookings out of his house that had a very good point so I informed Norwegian of it; maybe since I was booked through a Caesars Entertainment offer or their Casino at Seas program, it could be considered a third party booking and the rep at home said its possible that the third party cancelled it once they got word from Norwegian as to the fleetwide cancellations. Just some info, I did report this to Norwegian in hopes of furthering my own claim. I wish you patience and luck in your dealings with them.
Just highlighting for the TLDR crowd. I know some have been asking specifically about these kinds of bookings.
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14 minutes ago, SeaShark said:
Select "Other reason for this dispute" since "Impatience" isn't listed.
When does it stop being"Impatience"?
100 days? 200 days? 2 years?
How long is NCL allowed to keep the cash just because they can/choose to?
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My room steward never introduced himself
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38 minutes ago, njhorseman said:
The late United States Senator from New York Daniel Moynihan once said "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."
The facts as science can best determine them as of today is that the first case of Covid-19 occurred in late December, 2019 in Wuhan, China.
The type of illness you're talking about happens every year to many, many people... an unidentified mild virus that generally passes off quickly. Since there's no new disease to attribute it to almost all the time, we don't give it a second thought. This year because of Covid-19 there's something to point your finger at, but that doesn't mean your finger is pointing to the truth.
It's starting to look like it might go back to November.
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56 minutes ago, njhorseman said:
Your scientific source for the statement that 80% of the patients just go about their business because their symptoms are so mild?
While no one can say for sure what someone does when they're mildly ill, the 80% is according to the World Health Organization
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This is confusing.
Off the ship? Yes, that's a problem I know about. On to the ship? I don't know why they would care. What would/could it hurt?
I know I've brought cookies, pastries etc that we've picked up at bakeries in ports, just in a bag. Never even occurred to me that it would be a problem - and it never has been.
That said, we've never brought food on initial embarkation, if that makes a difference.
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1 hour ago, smplybcause said:
I doubt it was. They're probably basing this on Caribbean cruises which can, to a certain extent, change directions and find another port. But those Caribbean ports rely on cruises and as such build a lot of piers to handle a lot of ships. Several ports were more or less built by cruise lines.
It makes perfect sense.
When it was determined that the weather was going to make the itinerary impossible, a different itinerary could've been lined up in a safer area - just as cruises suddenly head to Canada if storms are in the Atlantic. Yes, it would be disappointing, but it would avoid this constant scrambling and changing that aggravates the situation.
Weather is understandable, confusion is not. Not when sailing is their business.
There are many huge shipping ports in the Med, and other parts of Europe, that could have been possible substitutions. Most times we have come into port and shared dock space with freighters, ferries and even military ships all over the world. Devoted cruise terminals are rare.
NCL has proven time and again that it knows how to substitute ports. Not sure why they flail about, when weather is involved.
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Add MSC to the list of lines that handled this better.
I am sitting on the Armonia, in Cozumel for the second time this week, after yesterday's return visit to Costa Maya.
We were told Saturday about these changes, and that we would"hopefully return to Miami Wednesday", rather than Monday as originally scheduled. Our Sunday stop in Key West was cancelled because that port was also closing.
Now we just wait and see. It's all been handled very calmly and professionally, almost as if this kind of thing has happened before.
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I have never understood NCL's reluctance/refusal to give reasons.
It's usually: Here's your new vacation! Enjoy! Why? Just because!
Imagine ordering steak and being served a hotdog. Would that be okay? What if it's in the fine print on the menu?
Substituting any port they want, for any reason (or no reason), is their right.
Just don't ever believe that all cruise lines are like this. They're not.
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11 minutes ago, Wyoming2010 said:
$400 USD per stateroom as onboard credit. If this credit is not fully used during the cruise, MSC Cruises will refund the difference upon check-out from the ship. Any shore excursions in Havana that were pre-purchased before the cruise, or which are included in the ticket, will be automatically refunded to the Guest’s onboard account.
- The possibility to change ship and itinerary. MSC Cruises will waive cancellation fees and transfer already paid funds to the new booking.
I'll take it - seems fair for something that I acknowledge is not their fault.
I just made final payment a week ago so this news was disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. It was first mentioned in April, I think.
The reopening of Cuba was always on shaky ground anyway - we were making claims about education/support, on excursions we all knew were just tourism.
What one President gives, another can take away, and I doubt that the lines will take this kind of costly risk again.
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1 hour ago, JF - retired RRT said:
Just had a thought...
As noted by Scarlett39, it's apparently a US regulation that you aren't supposed to take food that isn't packaged by the manufacturer onto a ship. So why is it OK to do the same thing on an airplane?
Princess isn't the only one that's consistent in its inconsistency.
This
There is no reason for it to be a problem, to bring it ONTO a cruise ship.
It seems that the problem lies with US/Canadian ports/personnel, not the cruise lines(except NCL), and even that is inconsistent - I have done cruises to Alaska, Hawaii, Canada and the Caribbean, without a problem.
Eating local fruits, cheeses, breads, various pickles etc. has become a part of our seaday 'happy hours' on every cruise, all over the world.
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NCL has always had more than its fair share of our-ship-is-broken-so-now-your-vacation-is-x
Not everyone enjoys or accepts that, regardless of the fine print. I wish them luck with the lawsuit.
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Thank you!
We were on board after an absolutely gorgeous day in Athens.
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Sitting in a hot tub with a drink is perfectly normal. Mine has cup holders.
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Gee, you either believe this or you don’t.
If you believe this happened the way the OP says, why would you make excuses for NCL? They should have spent those hours apologizing for their mistake and offering assistance, not telling her to book a flight home.
Princess overbooks all the time - check out the move-over offers people get before the cruise. Offers that are made when the line realizes the sailing is oversold.
Dwelling on the use of the word boat?
Turned off by the use of CAPS lock?
Dismissing the report because she mentions food?
Last minute? Who cares? NCL sold a cabin they didn’t have.Apparently they have redefined the word “guarantee” i.e. probably, whenever, wait and see, maybe.
Put the blame where it belongs.
Inexcusable and appalling the way it was handled. Stop making excuses for NCL.
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4 minutes ago, FLAHAM said:
Only 15 per day?? What am I supposed to do the rest of the day??
Limit of 15 alcoholic drinks with the package. No limit on non-alcoholic(and the drink package on Carnival is much more inclusive).
Just wanted to note that you don't have to do assigned seating. Anytime Dining works very well also.
You are not sailing this year at all. Lets stop the illusion
in Norwegian Cruise Line
Posted
Not everyone is high risk.
I am 55 years old and willing to take the risk(or not- up till now, it's been my choice).
I won't drag my high-risk parents along with me, or anyone else who doesn't want to take the risk.
I am not "clueless".
I'm an adult and I want to make my own choices. Nothing in life is 100% safe, and this year's Covid-19 vaccine won't necessarily protect from Covid-21 or -33 or Ebola-22 or Mers-24, or anything else that comes along. Viruses are always dangerous for high-risk people. Always have been. New viruses even more so.
Stay home if you wish, and I promise to stay away from you for a couple weeks when I return.
That said, when cruising starts, I will be there with bells on. This is a cruise board and I want to cruise.
I won't make you join me.