erdoran

Guys, guys, please look at the mortality tables.  This topic and the one about the European travel ban are both complaining about two measures meant to

1.  Protect older people from a known very high health risk

2.  Protect the American public from additional sources of Covid-19 (although I suspect our own community transmission is already out of control—but let’s not add fuel to the fire)

Regardless of your political opinions, please support our government in dealing with this pandemic.  Many of you seem to be disconnected from what is ahead of us.  The more people who support these control measures and cooperate, rather than try to get around the system, the faster we will get through this..  

Remember you cant have been in or transited thru any schwengen countries within the last two weeks....

and while we are at it, are we a bunch of children trying to get away with something or is there just maybe a good reason for this travel ban?  Perhaps we could all support the efforts to prevent another Italy here in the US?  There’s a REASON for the travel ban that we should all respect!

If they have been in Europe in the past 14 days then they are out, mode of transport should be irrelevant.  US permanent residents get in, but I hope they get quarantined.  

Perhaps Canada will have something to say about this.  I sure hope they do because they are putting their country at tremendous risk otherwise.

You’ll get FCC.  Just withdraw your bid now before it’s accepted.  You can always re-bid if you are 100% sure you’ll go.

WHAT THE HECK IS EVERYBODY’S PROBLEM?  Cruises will be around in the future.  This smells like a compromise between cruise lines & CDC where CDC probably wanted to shut them down because of the higher possibility of Covid-19 spread on ships, and the CLIA fought back and they eventually agreed to something to make it more difficult for the community at highest risk to cruise.

I note this doesn’t require the cruiser to be free of risk factors if they are under 70, and it also doesn’t address cardiac disease, which is top on the list of co-morbidities with poorer outcome.

IMHO it’s too watered down, it should be a bit stronger.  Not that NCL will know if you are 40 and have COPD, but I wish there was some way this would be a bit more widespread.  I know we can’t ask everyone who is sailing to get a doctor’s note, but medically I think people should really have it in their faces what the risk factors and consequences are if they choose to cruise.  No risk factors, great!  

Let the flames begin—and no, I am not a troll, I think my post count speaks for itself.

48 minutes ago, Ms BumbleBee said:

It actually could be worse than the Black Death.  Modern medicine is just better than what they had in the Middle Ages.  I think if people all just used common sense we would be better off.

 

I do feel we as people cruising also need to do our due diligence and follow recommendations of medical professionals too.  We seem to either see hysteria or stubborn disregard.  THere is a middle ground that can put safeguards in place that can minimize risk

Scientifically it is nowhere near as bad as the Black Death, which had I believe a 90% mortality rate, vs Covid-19 overall 1-4%—higher in old people, lower in young.  I understand Black Death is treatable if caught in time, and given modern sanitary conditions, the bubonic version isn’t as contagious now as it was then - no rat fleas all over.  The pneumonic version is highly contagious and lethal, but I’m pretty sure it responds to antibiotics.  So mortality-rate wise, let’s not compare.

The thing Covid-19 has is it is viral and there IS no antibiotic treatment.  Remesvidir is being used experimentally and anecdotally MAY help, but it’s not commercially available and I’ve only heard of a couple of cases where it was used.  I believe clinical trials may be beginning and Gilead is gearing up to manufacture it, so if it is helpful we have a head start-but meanwhile we need to be cautious, safe, wash our hands regularly, self-isolate if we have symptoms, listen to the CDC/WHO and be smart about our decisions. Even if we are young and think we’ll be fine, remember those around you that you could infect that are at higher risk than you.

Read the following article

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/its-just-everywhere-already-how-delays-in-testing-set-back-the-u-s-coronavirus-response/

There was a flu study going on, and the scientists IN SPITE OF the government tested numerous samples for Coronavirus and found “many” positives retrospectively—but then were shut down BY THE GOVERNMENT.  Before they were shut down they proved there were numerous cases before the second “official” case.  There’s also commentary about genetic relationships, if not in this article then in another one I read.  That supports comments that have been made since the first nursing home outbreak about how Covid-19 has been in Washington for several weeks, undetected.

It doesn’t matter how many thousand cases exist now (or don’t); they will exist in the foreseeable future.  

From my TA less than a week ago.  No lies here, but here’s the spin they put on things.  Do NOT use this as justification NOT to cancel if you are planning to cancel otherwise—if anything, to me it’s further justification, just seeing how much worse things have gotten in the last week.

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

So, if they have NCL insurance and the NCL insurance company does not accept your claim (e.g., afraid of COVID-19 or pre-existing condition) the NCL insurance will pay $0. 
 

NCL will give you a 75% FCC for the penalty.
 

So, while you get small cash refund for taxes etc., you are gambling the cruise fare on whether the insurance company will accept your reason for cancelling. If successful, you get 100% cash. If not successful, you will get a 75% FCC. 

Bird, what’s this about 75% FCC, I thought it was 100%?

@kiminey65 before the doctor’s appt they should call their insurance company and ASK  about this type of scenario and under what circumstances they would be covered, and what documentation would be needed to have their claim approved.  And do they have the pre-existing waiver?  Sounds like they might.

The ship employees have zero to do with pricing; they are all about customer experience.  Let me restate - the ship employees are the reason customers come back, and certainly a consistently poor onboard experience will negatively-impact pricing.  But the prices are set in a different department, landside.  It's not their fault.  

My theory-without data, just my common sense-is perhaps for the near-term cruises, NCL doesn't know yet what they are going to do because of the various advisories, warning, port closures, and disease spread, not to mention government-level things that are still being hashed out.  If they set prices high enough to discourage booking, they will have fewer pax to deal with when they have to make changes, which they most definitely will have to do.

As far as far-out cruises, again it's a who knows? situation.  Are there going to be new regulations or recommendations about air handling system?  Various other sanitation items that are less obvious?  How long will the epidemic last?  How long are itineraries going to be uncertain, as far as needing changes because of the epidemic?  If they discourage immediate bookings, that gives them some space to sort all of this out.

It seems a bit counter-intuitive because all the cruise lines desperately need a cash infusion at the moment, but it makes sense to put things on pause for a bit, but not shut down bookings entirely, which would send a whole different message.  And hey, if someone WANTS to pay those prices, that's fine - but I suspect not really expected.

NCL didn't HAVE to give us the option to cancel if we were after final payment, they could have held us to the original T&C when we bought our cruise.  No, this isn't ideal and no, it doesn't necessarily make us 100% whole but I do appreciate that they are being flexible and doing SOMETHING for us, especially in view of the massive hit they are taking with all the cancellations.  Had they not done this probably fewer people would have cancelled and no doubt more people would have gotten sick.  For me personally, this is good enough.

8 minutes ago, brovol said:

Thinking out loud here, and this isnt even to the level of "speculation"; but could it be possible that the cruise companies are readying themselves for a potential insurance claim to cover their losses caused by the virus?  Put pricing back to pre-discounted rates, so the claim amount is more substantial?  Again, no insight here, just theorizing on strategy.

Insurance companies are no dummies.  I'm sure, given the $$ at stake, they know the industry and dynamic pricing.  Chances are the value of any claim is based on lost revenue based on average price over some specific time window, or even the value of actual lost bookings.  I doubt very, very much it's based on a single point in time, or even on pricing AFTER a "known event" just like we can't get travel insurance for coronavirus after 1/20 because it's a known event.

My understanding from reading CC is if you use "credits" to book a cruise from a previously-cancelled cruise (e.g. your cruise was cancelled because of hurricane/mechanical issues and you were given FCC) and then you cancel the newly-booked cruise for a covered reason under your new travel policy, that the value of the FCC isn't covered, only anything you've paid over & above.  Any thoughts?

And Q2 - is it one and done?  So I use FCC to book & make final payment on cruise 2, then (assuming the "peace of mind" is still in effect) decide I'd prefer cruise 3 - do you know if that's doable?  Or if I use part of FCC for a deposit on cruise 2 and then change my mind outside of final payment, have I lost the deposit FCC, even though the deposit is refundable under ordinary circumstances?

If I cancel my June cruise, I'm thinking of using my FCC for final payment on my Dec cruise, but with all the uncertainty I want to be sure I know the ins and outs so I can make an informed decision.

Anyone know?  

Yeah I see your point, Bird.  

Bird, do you disagree that some price range should be included in the FAQ, whether it is a percentage of your cruise price/day, some amount, etc, rather than this blank check?

10 minutes ago, Tom_3777 said:

I just cancelled my prepaid gratuities the lady I was talking to said why am I cancelling I was like this is the last day to get a refund via cc cause I don't want a future cruise credit. She was trying to say you can get a refund up to 48 hrs I said yea but its a future cruise credit not a cash refund. Then she tried to tell me there is a corona virus vaccine, just needs to be tested? (I was thinking what is she saying lol).

 

I should receive a cash refund to my cc in about 2 weeks or 7-10 days.

No vaccine for at least 18 months.  She needs to listen to Dr. Fauci.  yes, there is the Moderna one entering clinical trials, but Fauci says 1 yr - 18 months is optimistic and fastest in history.

They’ve probably been slammed with refund requests today and may be instructed to try to talk pax out of getting them.

1 minute ago, FredT said:

Now THAT is an interesting question.  If a customer could show to the CC company anything that "proves" that they purchased the fare under policy "A" (You can cancel for a refund until this or that date) and NCLis now saying, NO,   You probably could get your c/c reversed.......      Anyone gone down that route yet?

Those aren’t the grounds for the CC dispute - grounds are “non-delivery of purchased goods or services”.

If the worst were to happen,  wouldn’t a credit card company give a refund?  I think I’ve read that somewhere (doggoned if I know where)

Here’s a scary thought - how long will they offer FCC?  Remember the 90 day cancellation/refund window?  That lasted 2 days I believe.  If you didn’t grab it when first offered, poof!  

1 minute ago, karinski said:

It isn’t me that wants to cancel. A friend has been getting some bad information from someone he claims has FBI credentials. They told him that if there are any issues he won’t be allowed back into the country!! Lol! I told him it was nonsense and his information is wrong! Didn’t seem to believe me. So he said he Had insurance. I explained the policy and the NCL policy and he was quite angry. I am a TA, just wanted to get some opinions.

thank you!

The best advice for your friend is to call his insurance company, explain why his doctor says he can’t go and ask what documentation is required in order to have a valid claim - or if there even is a valid claim.

13 minutes ago, jancl57 said:

We are booked on the May 28 cruise out of Rome.  I know for certain that if we cancel, which we won't just yet, we won't be able to rebook the same cruise for next year as the price has gone up exponentially .  Pricing of Caribbean cruises have almost doubled since I checked yesterday.  

I’d hang tough, with the news out of Italy that the whole country is quarantined, chances are the cruise will either be cancelled or moved; in either case, you may have a higher likelihood of getting a cash refund option or at least increased FCC over your fare, since YOU aren’t cancelling (yet).  Others can weigh in on what’s typically been offered in situations like this.

18 minutes ago, blcruising said:

That's what I would think, too, as NCL casually raises the sailaway interior rate for the TA to Rome next month from $300 pp to a whopping $1,322 pp!!! Yesterday, they give it away; today, they rip you off. Just don't see this model employed by other companies. This new pricing, coupled with current conditions in Rome, ought to fill that ship in short order.....said no one ever!!

That’s laughable, as the country of Italy is closed down and as of now, I don’t think any cruise ships are even allowed to dock—and considering the itinerary goes to countries with a large number of cases, I can’t imagine any new bookings at any price!

@JPL1966 excellent article; however the NY Post is NOT a peer-refereed scientific journal and they are predicating the dropoff on other illnesses.   

Scientists are data-driven (I know this 100%); they are NOT going to say it WILL drop off by May at the latest, or even that there will be a seasonal dropoff, there is reason to HOPE - but there is no certainty because no data.  

With regard to the decrease in cases in China, and now S. Korea dropping off, there seems to be about a 2 month window of cases increasing and then decreasing, but is it because of quarantines or other reason?  So when China no longer quarantines Wuhan area, will there be a big upsurge in cases?  That's what I wonder.

With regard to the mortality rate, you can't consider the 3.4% valid, because it's totally age-dependent.  You see the first increase at 60-70, then bigger increase 70-80, then I think 10% 80 and above.  There are also other illnesses/conditions at any age that increase one's risk of death or very serious infection.  

I think each person has to consider their own personal risk factors vs the actual mortality data, and ask their doctor if they do have "co-morbidities" about how much at risk they are above the risk for their age.

And while I'm on the subject, I want to debunk the embarkation/debarkation checks.  They'll definitely catch the easy targets - folks boarding/debarking with symptoms, sure - but what about the pax who were exposed during their trip to the cruise, and the pax who caught it during the cruise?   Or crew members who were exposed during the last cruise but are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic?  Sure, they are a great idea and absolutely worth doing, but do NOT assume you have zero risk of exposure because of them, quite the contrary.  NCL's sanitizing and your own excellent hygiene and handwashing are imperative as well.

Nothing said if you can REQUEST a cash refund; however, from NCL FAQ-so you can decide how important it is to you to ensure these are refunded as cash, vs risking them being FCC only:

The following will be applied to the FCC:

• Cruise fare
• Flight arrangements booked through Norwegian Cruise Line
• Any ancillary items sold by Norwegian Cruise Line except Onboard Credits (OBC)
  • Ancillary items such as flowers, dining or beverage packages, among others.
• Prepaid service charges

• Upon cancellation, will guests be credited for any pre-cruise purchases such as beverage packages, shore excursions, etc.?

  Yes, all pre-cruise purchases will be included in the FCC issued.

2 minutes ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

That's the part that's really appalling.  They aren't saying just how much they are going to charge people.  Could it be equal to the amount you paid to go on the cruise?  Probably not, but it's  any number they want to come up with.  

To my point about NCL should publish some guidance about $$ - cruise fare daily pro-rate based on what you paid, or some other specific amount?