BruceMuzz

Well, I still haven't seen the correct answer so far, so here it is: the determining factor is not a 24 hour break or overnighting; it is whether or not you are on the same ship when it departs the port. Period. Does not matter if the ship spends three days in port and then departs, if it is the same ship on its departure after you disembark, it is considered continuous. I know only because I called the government lawyers and spoke to one of the three who make the PVSA determination rulings a couple of years ago. In the LA-Vancouver-Seattle-Alaska (rt) scenario above, as long as you are not on the ship when it leaves the port of Vancouver there is no PVSA violation. Getting the cruise line to allow you to book that, however, is an entirely different matter unless they sell the first and last legs separately. But LA to Vancouver and Seattle to Alaska (rt) are two distinct journeys from a PVSA viewpoint.

While your comments and the information you received from the government lawyers are very sound, sensible, and logical, these factors are often missing when CBP rules on situations like this.

In over 30 years of dealing with whacky CBP decisions and rulings, it seems more likely that the direction the wind is blowing, which side of the bed the officer got out of that morning, and how many donuts he ate on his coffee break have far more impact on the final CBP ruling on just about any case.

Most cruise line employees are very well versed on PVSA rules and regulations, but we cannot trust that the CBP will follow them with any regularity or consistency. We always err on the side of caution to protect the company and our Captains.

Note that it is more often - but not always - the case that the passenger's personal itinerary (not the actual ship's itinerary) that ultimately determines a violation.

For example if a passenger boards a ship in Seattle, and sails to Alaska - but dies before the ship reaches it's foreign port stop (usually Victoria BC), and his body is offloaded in Alaska, he has violated the PVSA and his estate is subject to a fine. I have seen this fine levied a few times (the cruise line ate the fine), but more often the fine is waived. (The actual violation cannot legally be waived).

A few CBP officers have informed me that if a passenger dies before reaching the foreign port stop on a closed loop cruise from a US Port, he has still violated the PVSA as he was not alive when his body was onboard the ship in the foreign port - even though his body physically made the entire closed loop cruise itinerary and stopped at the required foreign port.

I have never known a local CBP decision or ruling - no matter how crazy or nonsensical - to be over-ruled by Washington or anyone else. But I have had many conversations with CBP Officers in one district telling me how stupid and nonsensical their counterparts in another district really are.

Your tax dollars at work......................................

For those of you commenting on the "selfish" passengers who do not admit on the form before embarkation that they are ill are not living in reality.

While I do not condone it; I certainly can see someone who is ill lying on the form so they are not denied boarding. If someone has saved for months ; spent thousands on a vacation to include airfare, cruise , hotel charges they do not want to lose it all.

 

Yes yes I understand. They should have insurance. They are selfish. They can infect others, etc. etc.. I get all that. Noro is one thing. But if you had a cold, a common cold,would you REALLY admit this on the form and risk inspection by the medical staff and even a 1%chance of denied boarding?? BE HONEST!!!!

 

If HAL really wants people to be honest, then offer a FULL REFUND if boarding is denied for medical reasons. Just another perspective.

You need to do more research.

Cruise lines do NOT deny boarding to people who admit they have Norovirus symptoms. The affected passengers are only required to self-isolate after they board the ship.

Cruise lines do not deny boarding for health reasons to anyone - except in cases where the illness is considered so serious that it could be fatal to someone.

Norovirus only reaches the fatal stage when the afflicted person has so many other serious medical problems that he/she shouldn't be there anyway.

Is anyone familiar with this area and what the weather may be? We are sailing April 5. We are used to the tropics on cruises and I have no idea what type of clothing to pack! Any advice greatly appreciated!

The weather forecast for Planet Earth on 05 April is:

Partly cloudy, chance of rain.

That's also the forecast for every other day of the year.

Wish you had told us what area you were talking about.

We dicked at an industrial pier 60 minutes ride to Da Nang. The ship offered a shuttle bus to a Beacg resort which still 50 minutes away from town and their are not many cabs. The tours are very expensive (175/395 USD) each so suggest make some private arrangements in advance.

You did what?????

Looks as if inflation has hit the world's oldest profession.

Sending out laundry for others is like the Seinfeld episode where Courtney Cox played Jerry's girlfriend but pretended to be his wife. We just made Elite. I'd hate to see an erosion of the benefit now that we've earned it. Perhaps Princess just needs to police the laundry situation better.

Some Princess Elite pax bring every piece of clothing they own with them on the cruise in order to send it out and get it all cleaned for free.

Others bring just a few pieces of clothing and a dozen non-elite relatives along, and send in all the dirty clothing from all their relatives for cleaning.

How do you propose that Princess "police the laundry situation better" ??

Truth Serum injections?

Lie Detector tests?

Check dirty undies for names written on them?

It depends on the CD but for me, although HAL announcements are less than other cruise lines, they are still unnecessary. We all get the daily news sheet so announcements should be necessary.

 

I think all we should get are important/security announcements or when things have changed from the published schedule and the daily Captain's update.

I think you wanted to say that you all get the daily news sheet, so announcements should be UNNECESSARY. In a civilized world, you would be right.

But you failed to factor in all the knuckleheads who leave their brains at home when they go on a cruise.

And the people who stand there talking while the Cruise Director makes a very loud announcement three times, who then go to the front desk to complain that nobody has told them where the gangway is located or what time the bingo starts.

Or the last three passengers who are needed to go through immigration before anyone can leave the ship. After sending them instruction letters for three days before the end of the cruise, then making 15 announcements on debark morning, they still fail to show up. We find them reading a book by the pool while everyone else is in a panic about missing their flights.

Their excuse??

"I didn't hear any announcements."

"Nobody told me."

The majority of Hotel service staff on ships do work the 13 hours per day (in split shifts), 7 days a week.

We booked a VH (solid steel balcony railing) verandah on the Oosterdam on the 28 day south pacific crossing in February for what we thought was an amazing price of $2800 each. It has since gone down to $1900 FOR 28 DAYS WITH A BALCONY AND INCLUDES $300 PER PERSON ONBOARD CREDIT!!!!!! YIKES! Our agent called and begged and managed to get us the $300 pp onboard credit, but we still paid $900 per person more than we could have! Hopefully we get an upgrade! And now, with the cruise only 3 weeks away, the cheapest balcony room jumped to $4200! This really shouldn't be this random. . .

It is not at all random.

Cruise prices are first set by the market.

Then they are driven and fluctuate minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, week to week, month to month, and year to year by supply and demand. The more fickle and unpredictable the buyer (that's you in this case), the more the prices fluctuate - but certainly not randomly.

This is one of the basic pillars of American Capitalism that everyone learns when they study Economics 101 in College.

The Stock Market, Currency Exchange, Car Rentals, Insurance Rates, Hotel prices, Airline Tickets, the price of gold, gasoline prices, pork bellies, and Superbowl Tickets all work exactly the same way.

When I started working on cruise ships many, many years ago, we charged an absolute fortune for passage.

On my first ship, a 7-day Mexican Riviera cruise in an ocean view cabin (no balconies in those days) was the same price as a new Buick automobile.

Today a 7-day Cruise in a mini suite with a balcony is less than a monthly payment on a new Buick automobile.

So we no longer make any profit selling cruises to the public. In fact, cruises are often sold at a loss.

So how do the cruise lines stay in business?

They think they need to make a profit selling as many things as they can to the people who could never even afford to cruise 30 years ago.

Making a profit - positively un-American. They ought to make it illegal.

Most cruise lines are confiscating extension cords and power strips these days.

There have been too many mal-functions / blackouts / fires caused by cheap and defective cords and strips brought onboard.

You may get lucky and get them through the x-ray inspections, but why take the chance?

Every ship I have managed had plenty proper cords and power strips for loan (at no charge) to guests.

Leave that stuff at home and use the luggage space for your formal wear.

Swimming pools on ships are usually located on the top of the ship - the best location for you and the worst location for the ship.

Even a small pool holds between 80 and 100 tons of water.

That much weight can have serious effects on the stability of a ship - especially in heavy seas.

Many ships today have several pools on the top decks - further compromising stability.

When a ship starts rolling, and several hundred tons of water start moving up top, it is very difficult to counter all that kinetic energy and keep the ship upright.

You should be happy the pools are not large enough to swim laps.

Definitely my own pen. Always carry one anyway. As to Noro.... if you know you have it, so does everyone around you. There is no controlling yourself. I had it few years ago when it swept out college campus and believe me I could not have hidden the fact I was sick. I could not even crawl out to take my dogs for walks, fortunately some neighbors helped or I would have had to have done a massive sanitation job on my hallway. Not fun, no way, no how.

 

Susan

You are speaking from personal experience and perhaps do not realize that a percentage of the population can have a Norovirus infection with very few symptoms.

The CDC has determined that people with certain blood types are nearly immune to Norovirus. They can still be infected, but the symptoms are very mild - and sometimes completely non-existent.

A rather large percentage of Asian people are functionally immune to virus - even though they are infected. They just unknowingly carry the virus around and give it to everyone else.

If you would like more information on this, please Google "Norovirus and blood type"

Anyone with real Noro (not just an upset stomach) will not be able to hide it' date=' no way, no how - trust me.:([/quote']

 

Passengers with "Real" Norovirus hide it all the time.

How do I know?

Because they finally admit it to us when it gets so bad they can no longer stand it - or when we have a sea day and they are no longer worrying about missing a shore tour.

 

We have a very high number of passengers who load up on anti-nausea drugs, anti-diarrhea drugs, anti-vomiting drugs, etc.

They are able to reduce and hide their symptoms for 3 or 4 days while they run around infecting everyone else.

Unfortunately these drugs keep the virus inside their bodies, prolonging the sickness and keeping them contagious for a longer period.

 

Real Norovirus rarely lasts more than 72 hours in human bodies. But when these people finally turn themselves in and we ask them when the symptoms started, they usually admit that it has been 5 or 6 days ago.

These selfish people are the primary reasons that ships cannot get control of outbreaks.

Still waiting to get back on the ship and it looks like a good hour to go as there are still passengers getting off the ship. Long Beach was a planned sstop so going through customs was also planned. We were surprised because we never had to do this before though it does make sense as it is the first port. I think princess would have sold more excursions in long beach had passengers understood all of this. The o lyrics info regarding the customs inspection was last night in our cabin mail.

 

There have been two arrests this morning! I saw the second person being escorted out in handcuffs. Then another passenger informed us that this morning authorities came on the ship searched a few cabins and arrested someone. I will try to find out more. And here lies the reason we have these inspections.

 

We might walk to the Queen Mary now. There is a Princess Diana exhibit!

In most American ports, if a ship is calling there after visiting a foreign port on a closed loop cruise - and the cruise is not yet ended - there is no Customs or Immigration inspection for the passengers.

In most American ports, if a ship is calling there after visiting a foreign port on an open jaw cruise - and the cruise is not yet ended - there is a cursory Immigration inspection, but nothing from Customs.

But Long Beach is different.

There is only one other port in the world where the officials are so nasty, inhospitable, difficult, unpredictable, and determined to convince all passengers never to go back there. That's Dalian, China.

Every time a cruise ship visits Long Beach, there is an entirely new set of rules that do not exist anywhere else in America.

And those rules change about every 10 minutes or so.

A cruise ship visiting there has no idea what to expect from the officials - except we always know that it is going to be very unpleasant for us and our passengers.

Most cruise lines have refused to return to Dalian, and many cruise lines are now doing the same with Long Beach, California.

Everyone - including the cruise lines - is confused by port charges and taxes. They are extremely complicated, differ greatly from port to port and country to country, and are constantly changing.

There are many different port taxes and fees charged to a cruise ship.

Many - but certainly not all - ports charge a fixed dollar amount for each paying passenger onboard the ship. But this number can go up or down with very little warning. Quite often, this amount as a part of the port taxes you paid several months ago when you booked the cruise has changed - up or down - by the time your ship goes to that particular port. When you board you then find a small refund - or a small additional charge - that reflects the change.

Some ports (not all) charge fixed wharfage and head taxes based on the size of the ship rather than the number of paying passengers onboard. Then the cruise line has to calculate the port taxes by dividing the overall port charges by number of paying passengers actually onboard the ship on the day of that particular port visit. If your cruise is very full you may pay lower fees and taxes than if it was not so full.

Many ports have several piers. Some piers carry higher port charges and taxes than other piers. It is often the case that a cruise ship Captain is not sure which pier he will be assigned to until just a day or even a few hours before he arrives in the port. In San Juan for example, the fees and taxes for a ship visiting for the day at the Old Town piers are far higher than the fees for a ship visiting or turning around at the Panamerican Piers across the harbor.

At Sydney harbor, we like to dock at "the Rocks", just across from the Opera House. We pay much higher fees, but the location is great for our passengers. But if a large ship that cannot fit under the Sydney Harbort Bridge happens to show up, they get priority and we are shifted to the new Sydney Terminal in Darling Harbor. We pay far less in fees and taxes at the new terminal, but it is not nearly as convenient.

Many ports charge by the hour or by a segment of hours. If a ship stays longer at a pier, it is charged more money. Those charges are passed on to the passengers.

In some countries, a ship pays higher - or lower - fees and taxes depending on which country the cruise originated in.

Two or three times every month (on average) I receive an email from the Head Office explaining how much more I need to charge - or refund - every new guest because one or more ports or countries has changed the tax or fee structure at one or more ports on our itinerary.

In some ports, the cruise line has a special deal with one pier owner or another, giving them lower port charges, which are passed on to the passengers. In St Thomas, for example, HAL, Princess, and Cunard ships normally go to the the Sub Base Pier and pay substantially lower fees than the other ships that go to the Havensight pier downtown.

At Key West, the smaller ships are allowed to dock right down town - and pay much higher fees than the bigger ships that are docked at the Navy Pier.

When my ship was in Shanghai last week, we were small enough to fit under the bridge and tie up at the end of the Bund in the center of town. We paid a substantial premium for that. Our Royal Caribbean competitors could not fit their ship in the Huang Pu river and instead had to go to the Container Terminal quite a way out of town. Even though they are much bigger than us, they paid lower fees.

Are you confused yet? We usually are. And I have only scratched the surface of the myriad of factors that cause the confusion that surrounds port charges, fees, and taxes.

How is this all controlled?

Several years ago, a few cruise lines were caught inflating taxes and fees for passengers.

The State of Florida brought major lawsuits against those lines, won the lawsuits, and the lines had to pay many millions in penalties.

From that point on, several US Government Organisations monitor and audit fees and taxes charged by all the cruise lines calling at US ports, keeping everyone honest.

Hong Kong and Tokyo are worlds apart in the dining world.

Hong Kong has many international restaurants that are extremely expensive as all food items must be imported. Locally produced foods are so polluted that they are inedible.

You can do very well if you dine at Felix at the Peninsula Hotel - but it will cost you a bundle. Central on the Island has many very interesting (and relatively safe) outlets - but they are not good values.

You can eat at the local food stalls, which are very cheap and tasty. But you run the risk of Cholera or worse.

The city of Tokyo has more Michelin-Starred Restaurants than France, England, and the USA combined.

Many of the best restaurants and bakeries in France closed there and re-located to Tokyo, where the people are quite willing to pay top dollar (or Yen) for top quality.

The prices range from very affordable to ridiculous.

All of it is meticulously fresh and delicious.

All of it is very safe to eat.

Montezuma's Revenge - and all the other names it is known by - is more often than not a reaction by a sensitive stomach belonging to someone who does not travel very often or very far.

Many times when Mexicans visit the USA, they often have the same stomach problems.

There is nothing really wrong with the food and drink (in most cases), but when your gastro-intestinal system encounters different spices, liquids, foods, and bacteria than it normally has to process, the results are not very pretty.

Ice cubes and the condensed water on drink containers are often the culprits.

Poorly washed eating utensils at street vendor stalls are another cause.

Poorly stored, heated, or cooled foods in unfamiliar countries are another.

If you are prone to suffering when eating/drinking things in foreign places, you might best avoid doing it.

From a cruise ship you can take your own drinks and ice ashore in most countries.

If you are eating the 8 or more meals per day that many cruise passengers enjoy, it will probably be safe to go ashore for a few hours without eating anything at all.

The kitchen / galley tours are offered on all ships during the morning on the first sea day.

However there are no free engine room tours.

I see that you are on the Volendam. As far as I know only the Vista class and Signature class ships have a ship's tour that includes the engine room -- it is $150 per person and limited to 12 people.

NONE of the major cruise lines offer Engine Room Tours.

It is just too dangerous - and not much fun.

But some of the lines do offer Engine Control Room visits.

Many of us in the cruise industry read these boards for comedy relief.

Some of the wacky, over the top, other-worldly stuff you people come up with is just too good to be true.

Thank you for keeping us entertained.

Lee Kuan Yew also ruled that you cannot walk on the grass, feed the birds, pick flowers, smoke cigarettes in a private automobile, or vote against him in an election.

All Singaporeans are required to vote in national elections.

But just before the election, they received a message from their bank (which happened to be controlled by Mr. Lee), informing them that if they voted for the "wrong" candidate, the mortgage on their house would be revoked.

Hitler would have been proud.

And that's why people like me who have lived there previously refer to Singapore as "Disneyland with the Death Penalty".

All the posters here neglected to mention a very important aspect of any tour - liability.

All the major cruise lines charge a premium for tours in order to pay for the massive liability insurance they carry for every passenger who takes a ship-sponsored tour. This insurance ranges from US$1 million to US$5 million per passenger per tour.

If something happens to go very wrong on a ship sponsored tour, everyone is covered.

Your local third world tour operator offers a very inexpensive tour, partly because he has no liability insurance at all. If you take his tour and have some major problems - good luck to you.

Having said that, I must admit that I would normally choose to take the local independent tour. I am not worried about saving a buck, but I find that the local tours are usually far more interesting to me. Luckily I am well enough off to afford any unforeseen disasters.

A few months ago on my ship, a Cruisecritic group booked a very inexpensive independent tour on a remote Indonesian Island.

The tour operator dropped them off, promising to return several hours later to pick them up.

One of the American passengers promptly had a heart attack, and later died on the beach.

There was no way to contact the tour operator - who never returned.

After several hours, the group was able to flag down a passing fisherman, who transported them and the deceased back to the ship. The widow spent over $75,000 and over 2 weeks getting herself and her dead husband back to America.

If they had been on a ship-sponsored tour, the fellow still might have died, but the cruise line would have taken care of everything.

The real questions are:

1. Do you (like me) feel lucky?

2. Can you (like me) afford to cover the worst possible scenario if you are not lucky?

Interesting stuff' date=' but even this can be speculation, unless everyone who has had Noro also had bloodwork done, which certainly is not done in outbreaks in care homes or other facilities, and surely not on ships.[/quote']

 

Correct. It , in the end, speculation.

But this comment also applies to every disease on planet earth.

 

No disease or illness in existence has had complete investigation of every (or even most) people who have been afflicted.

Yes, we were just there and I had never thought of it but when told they (carnival) has to pay for every person getting off the ship to the country/port.

This is nonsense.

It appears that the crew was having a bit of fun at your expense.

ALL cruise lines pay port charges for all PAYING passengers onboard - regardless of them going ashore or not.

Cruise lines DO NOT pay port charges for crewmembers.

Neither do the crew.

When we have family members sailing with the ship, those family are placed on the crew list and given crew ID cards specifically so they and the cruise line do not have to pay port charges for them.

One of the most perplexing facts about Norovirus is the unpredictable nature of the infection.

All the CDC experts agree that there is no complete immunity - except to the specific strain of Norovirus that you have just recovered from. But nobody can determine how long that immunity lasts. It seems to vary by individual and by strain of virus. There are currently thousands of strains of Norovirus out there. It is not unusual for a "sick ship" to have more than one strain of the virus onboard.

Many Asians seem to be nearly (but not completely) immune to it, but nobody knows exactly why.

Extensive research and testing has determined that most people with type O blood are most easily infected; most people with types A, B, and AB blood are least easily infected.

Even the top experts cannot agree on how long someone remains contagious after suffering from the illness. The generally accepted story from CDC is that 24 hours after the last symptoms are gone, the level of contagiousness drops significantly for most people.

Luckily we do know exactly how the virus can and cannot enter your body.

If you are careful enough (and sometimes lucky enough) to prevent the spores from entering your mouth, nose, eyes, ears, and lungs, you cannot be infected.

Post deleted. There is no point in arguing with BruceMuzz. He knows for a fact that my stuff wasn't sent out for dry cleaning and that the cruise line warned me to never bring anything of value - especially clothing - onto a ship.

No need to argue the point.

I only know that no cruise ships - including HAL - offer real dry cleaning onboard.

Did HAL warn you about this?

I don't know.

Should they have warned you about this?

Yes.

Should you have known about this already?

Probably. It has been this way for many years now.

You might think of your ruined clothing as a "Not Paying Attention Tax".