North West Newbie

3 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Change of address?

 

No, I believe a second address. I have no personal experience but from what I’ve read numerous people report that it is possible with the caveat of the additional CWC number.

1 hour ago, BigMac1953 said:

Of course they dopn't want you to book in another country, but in the EU, stopping you from buying in another EU country would be illegal.

 

However, many people work and live abroad. Even if just temporarily, so how would any company know if you reside in that country or not? All you need is a valid address in the country of booking. I know that some people use the Travel Agent's address.

 

The interweb is a wonderful thing!

Indeed. I've read other UK residents on this board have done so when booking in the US. One just has to be mindful that you get a "local" CWC Number the first time which needs to be linked to any existing account otherwise the loyalty record is separated. You could inadvertently become a "redtop" when in fact you may be diamond and not receive the benefits!!

Thank you grayjay for providing an insight into the reason behind the change in Germany. It is good to see Cunard complying with the local laws.

41 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

If everyone is  happy  to work on the cruise line, why are you getting so upset when people (me) suggest we will opt out of auto gratuities 

Throughout this thread I believe I have kept a level head and I certainly have not been “upset”.

My criticism, and I make no apology if that upset you (it appears to have done), is the fallacious arguments that you have advanced including opting out and then opting back in which frankly neither stands scrutiny nor makes any logical sense.

I don’t believe anyone should be comparing anyone else. No one is forced to work or holiday on a cruise ship irrespective of origin and nationality. Crew and passengers have the option of choosing the deal on the table whether it is a contract to work or a holiday. If they don’t like what they signed up to they only have themselves to blame. If the deal doesn’t suit, don’t sign up. Simple.

9 hours ago, 57eric said:

True enough, but the poster was describing how they cleared customs at what was, for them, a stopover.

Yes but the OP, who the advice was intended, is not. I was simply adding to what ace2542 had said.

55 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

German  vs UK prices

 

It might most probably be simply competion in UK or lack of it in Germany

 

Looking at Hamburg  Germany's number one cruise port , over three quarters of the 197 cruises in 2020 out of Hamburg are Carnival.

 

Southampton more than twice (467) as many cruises and cruise lines with  just over a third of cruises  Carnival.

That proposition is illogical.

If the price differential was solely down to competition it is more likely to be competing cruise lines at the departure port that may influence prices not where the cruise is booked. Hence, V126 which is a Southampton roundtrip to the Canary Islands and Madeira would be the same price in Germany and the UK. Undoubtedly that is what you would like to see but alas it is not.

15 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Never mentioned prices as it is a completely unrelated issue to that of a uniform tipping policy. 

From Cunard’s perspective, I imagine the two are intrinsically linked. I wonder if the root cause of your dissatisfaction lies with your disagreement to gratuities and tipping. On another thread in August you stated:-

“Might as well just put up fares by requisite amount , and get rid of gratuities.”

“The sooner the hospitality industry gets rid of tips world wide the better.”

I do not seek to challenge or ridicule your view. However, please don’t spoil it for others who have a different opinion.

43 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Thanks very interesting , a lot of work.

 

UK £132

Germany €173 = £153 at 1.13

 

The gap is much bigger than the £9 auto gratuities.  Remember unless prices have jumped in the last few days  these prices were announced well before the change in tipping policy. I think the gap is just about Cunard's policy of extracting out of each market as much as they think it will bear. A quick look shows Australia is dearer than UK but with same tipping policy. USA is dearer but they have more promotions free drinks and tips. I go along with one of the earlier posts that the change in policy is driven by local pressures and norms and  mainly that Aida Germany's largest cruise line being tip free.

 

So let's not confuse three separate issues.

 

1)The recent change to Different tipping policy in Germanic countries

 

2)A long-term policy of different prices in each country 

 

3) Cunard' s long-term policy of putting up barriers to force people to book in their country of residence  (which in EU shoudn't happen)

 

None of which is anything consumer should approve of

 

Although only recently announced, Cunard’s decision to change the auto gratuity policy in Germany would not have been taken overnight, plus, Cunard use a live pricing system which sees fluctuation in any event. One way or another, prices are market driven taking numerous factors into consideration.

1 minute ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

 

I completely agree, they want to make money and this is one of the very few areas where UK is cheaper so we should be grateful.  But let's not blame gratuity policy for the difference in priced 

 

However Cunard shouldnt put up barriers to force people to book in country of residence according to the single market rules.

So why did you send a letter of complaint?

28 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

 

Here is what I've calculated as the average cost per night (per person double occupancy) on both the Cunard UK and Cunard Germany websites. Again, these are the lowest advertised rates for each voyage averaged across all voyages.

 

UK: £132.19

Germany: €173.11

24 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

Great work as ever bluemarble, thank you

And thanks from me too.

7 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I repeat, If it's that much cheaper then German customers should book via Cunard UK, which they should be perfectly entitled to do under single market rules. 

 

 

 

 

And likewise it is open to the dissenters to book via Germany with no need to opt out of the auto gratuities.

6 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

 

Here is another look at how the UK and German fares compare. I did screen grabs of all 54 pages of voyage search results on both the Cunard UK and Cunard Germany websites to capture the lowest "from" fares being advertised for each voyage. I then removed a few voyages that only showed up on one of the sites and adjusted for a few cases where the lowest priced category on one site was "Inside" while on the other the site the lowest priced category was "Outside" or "Balcony".

 

What I found, looking at all 536 voyages advertised on both sites was, on average, the lowest fares offered on the Cunard site for Germany are about 16% higher than the lowest fares offered on the Cunard site for the UK, using today's exchange rate between the pound and the euro.

 

Please note this analysis made no attempt to take into account that some of the fares offered in the UK are Saver fares, that some of the voyages in the UK have flights included, or that there may be differences in other perks such as OBC amounts. I just thought it might be of some interest to calculate the average difference between the lowest fares currently advertised in the two countries over all voyages.

Thank you for your efforts bluemarble.

Do you have readily available from your data for Germany what the average cost per night is?

7 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

No I do not I said I would get a definitive answer but through past experiences of other issues guessing at what the outcome will be and that nothing will change but you never know I might get a surprise.

“......I am not naive to think anything will change and all I will get, that is if I do get a response, is corporate statement about different markets have different offers and T&Cs......”

I think that sums up your expectation.

17 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I will not because I am not naive to think anything will change and all I will get, that is if I do get a response, is corporate statement about different markets have different offers and T&Cs but at of the day I will have the ultimate power of what I do with gratuities from my account.

2 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Not at all I will have a definitive answer from Cunard and feel at ease of the decision I make on my next cruise with Cunard and whether I book any more in the future.

Your two statements are at odds with each other and at best, by your own expectation, you already know what you will be told.

11 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I will not because I am not naive to think anything will change and all I will get, that is if I do get a response, is corporate statement about different markets have different offers and T&Cs but at of the day I will have the ultimate power of what I do with gratuities from my account.

So you have wasted your time.

3 minutes ago, Fairgarth said:

Well.....don't know if this is relevant but anyway.  We came off a cruise in Bayonne last week.  Line ups?  Pah!!  There were no officers around, we walked up to a screen which looked like a mirror by reflecting our face image.  It took a photo and we walked out.  10 seconds maybe?  We're not American but there was no need for passports for anybody that we could see.

Maybe the local authorities cleared the ship using the manifest?

I openly acknowledge that every guest can choose for themselves how they wish to deal with rewarding the crew, if at all.

If anyone objects to paying the auto gratuities then they are at liberty to remove them. All I respectfully suggest one takes that decision for a valid reason.

If one belongs to the camp in favour of the auto gratuity system that rewards crew behind the scenes then I believe it is manifestly wrong to opt out only to protest at Cunard. You will end up hurting the very people you had previously intended to reward.

If on the other hand you prefer to remove the auto gratuity and believe in rewarding crew personally at the end of the cruise then that is your choice and it is not for others to judge.

8 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

 

Perhaps it want immediately impact cunards  bottom  line,  but if as you say Cunard may have only changed it's policies where the opt out rate is excessive then if enough people increase the opt out rate they may change their policies

6 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Typo,  should be    "won't immediately impact Cunard bottom line "

And, like in Germany, we see a disproportionate increase in fares. No thank you!

26 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

In earlier threads a number of people have argued that Cunard are contractually obliged to make up tips when people opt out.  I for one was and still are a bit sceptical of this. But If anyone can provide evidence then opting out becomes a very valid way of protesting.

 

 

So, on the basis of your present scepticism, removing the auto gratuity is not a very valid way of protesting. 

21 minutes ago, North West Newbie said:

 

I am sure that you are not on your own in your preference that the gratuities should be rolled into the fare. I am equally sure that there are many people who feel that the auto gratuity should not be removable. Although this recent change in some markets highlights the issue, I strongly suspect what actually peeves people is the fact that in those markets where it is discretionary, some pay and others don’t. I believe that is the source of the irritation where many feel miffed. The comparisons with other markets and the arguments put forward simply do not stand scrutiny.

 

 

Has it not occurred to anyone that Cunard may have changed their policy only in the markets where the opt-out rate was excessive? From the example that has been presented, it would appear that this has resulted in much higher fares.

11 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Northwest newbie,  says that auto gratuities should not be removable.  If they weren't removable then certainly under UK consumer law and I think European law they would have to be included up front in the fare. The Marketing trick of lower headline fares wouldn't work.

If you are going to quote me please ensure that you are accurate.

I did not express a personal opinion.

What I said was that there are many people who feel that the auto gratuity should not be removable.

18 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

See above wording extract from the German tipping policy (post 18) a German tipping form certainly exists it is not my imagination or preposterous. 

 

By the way given the prices quoted above the Germans should book via Cunard UK, which they are perfectly entitled to do under single market rules.

 

We should have one global website with common prices and common T&Cs.

 

I think you will find that the form in the cabin will be the same form that is available and used at the Purser's desk. It is most unlikely to be one especially for guests who booked under the German T&C’s.

As for the Germans booking via the UK, of course they can, they will benefit from a cheaper fare but be subjected to the auto gratuity.

I don’t think your desires of utopia are realistic.

44 minutes ago, Aspidestra99 said:

Perhaps my reply to northwest newbie posted prior to your response answers your question. I would much rather have gratuities included in the fare, failing that I have always paid the autogratuity and would opt in, to ensure the charge is distributed fairly. So, to answer your post and to make it perfectly clear - yes it is purely a matter of principle.

I am sure that you are not on your own in your preference that the gratuities should be rolled into the fare. I am equally sure that there are many people who feel that the auto gratuity should not be removable. Although this recent change in some markets highlights the issue, I strongly suspect what actually peeves people is the fact that in those markets where it is discretionary, some pay and others don’t. I believe that is the source of the irritation where many feel miffed. The comparisons with other markets and the arguments put forward simply do not stand scrutiny.

Has it not occurred to anyone that Cunard may have changed their policy only in the markets where the opt-out rate was excessive? From the example that has been presented, it would appear that this has resulted in much higher fares.

2 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

To get an answer of why they are treating countries differently so I have an answer before my next cruise.

Well, as Windsurfboy said at #64, don't hold your breath.

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

Sorry but it is the only way because any other way Cunard will just turn a deaf ear and let you carry on paying autogratuities.

So why have you wasted your time writing to them?