JPH814
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Posts posted by JPH814
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14 hours ago, JodiandFrank said:
Fantastic!!!!! I can’t wait to hear if they respond!BTW - I noticed our Nov 7 Cruise was not listed.
it was cancelled on 5/6/2020. We are waiting for FCC only. Was that why it was not on the list?
Also, I’m curious. We have two flights that need to be cancelled because our November cruise was cancelled. I have yet to call the airline because if they cancel or change the flights I may be able to get my money back. If I cancel I will have a change fee at best, because they are non-refundable tickets. Did any of you have airline tickets to deal with because of a cancelled flight and will Seabourn pick up the change fees? (if I would live long enough to collect them.....)
yes - I had not intended to track FCC "refunds" , but only cash refunds. I did not want to further complicate things with what is most likely a different process.
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As of Date: 6/3/2020 Cruise Fare Cruise Date Refund Request Date Refund Received Date Days since Request Days between Request and Refund Flaminjune 3/14/2020 2/24/2020 5/13/2020 79 n Sueweldon 3/14/2020 3/15/2020 5/23/2020 69 u jkwestlake 3/21/2020 3/27/2020 68 n Zimflyer 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/10/2020 54 n Rambo Trout 3/22/2020 2/27/2020 5/12/2020 75 Happyhoppies 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/23/2020 67 n Sunburned Tongue 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 5/31/2020 83 u cruzluvers 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 86 Twinkles 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 5/18/2020 64 n rgaudet 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 80 u TV24 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 80 n Mauzac 4/5/2020 3/14/2020 81 n Scottie920 4/5/2020 3/16/2020 6/3/2020 79 n remember66 4/5/2020 3/26/2020 69 canadalin 4/8/2020 3/15/2020 80 Teamflames 4/15/2020 3/10/2020 5/25/2020 76 n Sunburned Tongue 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/23/2020 75 SF Voyage 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/24/2020 76 u Hencol 4/20/2020 3/31/2020 64 n Mauzac 4/20/2020 3/30/2020 65 u Marazul 4/22/2020 4/2/2020 62 n astride 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 65 u swaxxy 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 65 DC Traveler 5/2/2020 4/13/2020 51 n Daliowner 5/5/2020 3/11/2020 5/31/2020 81 u mhf 5/6/2020 3/26/2020 5/21/2020 56 u Bobal 5/6/2020 3/11/2020 5/24/2020 74 u Mark56 5/9/2020 3/16/2020 79 n Astride 5/16/2020 4/15/2020 49 u DFW 5/23/2020 4/16/2020 48 u jph814 5/23/2020 4/17/2020 47 u Zelker 5/23/2020 4/15/2020 49 u Jcrobinson48 5/26/2020 4/15/2020 49 DuffyMcDuffy 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 50 n ON Cruiser 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 50 u Flyfishingwidow 6/3/2020 4/15/2020 49 u Wyattsaubt 6/6/2020 4/15/2020 49 MTN1 6/23/2020 4/13/2020 51 crudoll 6/27/2020 4/15/2020 49 JRS51 6/27/2020 3/25/2020 70 Wire 6/27/2020 4/16/2020 48 Hoosier74 7/18/2020 3/18/2020 5/29/2020 72 u Jodiandfrank 7/18/2020 3/16/2020 79 u Westport 7/18/2020 4/3/2020 61 Foyt 7/25/2020 3/23/2020 72 u Whystayhome 7/31/2020 5/6/2020 28 u Jcrobinson48 8/12/2020 4/5/2020 6/1/2020 57 labate 8/14/2020 5/7/2020 27 u Clou 9/16/2020 3/27/2020 68 u TV24 10/3/2020 5/7/2020 27 u Whystayhome 10/24/2020 5/6/2020 28 u Not Jaded 12/20/2020 3/20/2020 75 Wire 12/20/2020 3/22/2020 73 u Clou 12/22/2020 4/13/2020 51 u Mmastell 1/13/2021 4/9/2020 5/25/2020 46 barcrab 10/10/2020 4/9/2020 5/30/2020 51 Average 68.6 -
OK folks. I took a shot and sent the following email to Seabourn today, with the latest table attached. I think it is self explanatory.
Dear Seabourn.
I am a very loyal Seabourn customer and – like may others – were greatly disappointed when my May cruise was cancelled. I clearly understand the unprecedented nature of this situation and the difficulty it puts on Seabourn and others in the cruise industry. Clearly this was a sad development for all concerned – the passengers and all those employees of Seabourn both on land and on board.
I am also a rather active poster on the website Cruise Critic. I created a post which has received a lot of involvement from other Seabourn customers. To date there has been over 14,000 views of the thread, I asked people to report three things: The date of their cancelled cruise; the date they requested a refund and the date they received a refund. (People would return to he thread to update when they received their refund.) I then started, and continue to update, a table with the data and post the updated table periodically .
I recognized that this is anecdotal data. It is self reported and can contain errors or exaggerations. It also is a relatively small sample compared to the universe of transactions that Seabourn processes every day. I also recognize that there are a myriad of factors that can influence the timing of refunds, many more than I can possibly imagine.
As you can imagine, the comments range from support and patience to disappointment and anger. Much of the discussion is reasonable, some not so much. If there is one overwhelming question it is this: why is there such disparity in the length of time it takes to receive refunds? Perhaps you might want to respond – either through me or through a direct comment on the Cruise Critic thread:
“https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2748503-refund-roll-call/
Thank you for your consideration. Please stay well
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1 hour ago, barcrab said:
We cancelled October cruise on Ovation on April 9 and received deposit refund on May 30.
We went Amex credit card dispute route on Uniworld June trip and received all monies for that trip.
what was the date of your october cruise?
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4 hours ago, scottie920 said:
Good news guys. Refund received.
when did you see it on your credit card?
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Did your friend’s refund come from Seabourn. A credit card dispute, or TA?
I know this is not directed at me, but I find the question confusing. Don't all refund come from Seabourn? There may be a question:"did you file a dispute with the credit card company?"
As for TA - I have not heard of any of them refunding cruise fares.
What is your point?
Sent from my iPhone using Forums -
Just now, wesport said:
I am at 60 days today. I emailed my TA yesterday, and she said Seabourn said I should have it within the next two weeks. That's after I have an email from her and Seabourn that it would take up to 60 days. Now it has changed to 60 business days. Seems there is no rhyme or reason to the order.
Unless the rhyme/reason was always 60 business days, just badly/inconsistently communicated
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2 minutes ago, JodiandFrank said:
We used our Returned FCD from our 7/18/2020 cancelled cruise toward the deposit. Our TA said we have to wait for Seabourn to process the FCC plus 25% and we will most likely put it towards this new cruise. So far they have not processed it. Originally we owed $398 toward the deposit, but the cruise dropped in price and the new deposit was less, so nothing out of our pocket (which worked out well because I told my TA I was not giving Seabourn anymore more money at this point in time!)I see. And I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
So at this point, I guess you would expect a revised invoice showing the new amount due (if any) after the FCC was applied. But it seems this would not really be an issue until it is time to make the final payment (or book excursions). I guess this is a bit of "if a tree falls in the forest" kind of thing. How do you know the FCC has not been applied to your account if you have not tried to use it?
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Here is the latest update - with a few additions (including one who has been refunded.
As of Date: 6/2/2020 Cruise Fare Cruise Date Refund Request Date Refund Received Date Days since Request Request to Refund n Daliowner 3/11/2020 3/12/2020 5/31/2020 80 Flaminjune 3/14/2020 2/24/2020 5/13/2020 79 n Sueweldon 3/14/2020 3/15/2020 5/23/2020 69 u jkwestlake 3/21/2020 3/27/2020 67 n Zimflyer 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/10/2020 54 n Rambo Trout 3/22/2020 2/27/2020 5/12/2020 75 Happyhoppies 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/23/2020 67 n Sunburned Tongue 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 5/31/2020 83 u cruzluvers 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 85 Twinkles 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 5/18/2020 64 n rgaudet 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 79 u TV24 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 79 n Mauzac 4/5/2020 3/14/2020 80 n Scottie920 4/5/2020 3/16/2020 78 n remember66 4/5/2020 3/26/2020 68 canadalin 4/8/2020 3/15/2020 79 Teamflames 4/15/2020 3/10/2020 5/25/2020 76 n Sunburned Tongue 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/23/2020 75 SF Voyage 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/24/2020 76 u Hencol 4/20/2020 3/31/2020 63 n Mauzac 4/20/2020 3/30/2020 64 u Marazul 4/22/2020 4/2/2020 61 n astride 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 64 u swaxxy 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 64 DC Traveler 5/2/2020 4/13/2020 50 u mhf 5/6/2020 3/26/2020 5/21/2020 56 u Bobal 5/6/2020 3/11/2020 5/24/2020 74 u Mark56 5/9/2020 3/16/2020 78 n Astride 5/16/2020 4/15/2020 48 u DFW 5/23/2020 4/16/2020 47 u jph814 5/23/2020 4/17/2020 46 u Zelker 5/23/2020 4/15/2020 48 u Jcrobinson48 5/26/2020 4/15/2020 48 DuffyMcDuffy 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 49 n ON Cruiser 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 49 u Flyfishingwidow 6/3/2020 4/15/2020 48 u Wyattsaubt 6/6/2020 4/15/2020 48 MTN1 6/23/2020 4/13/2020 50 crudoll 6/27/2020 4/15/2020 48 JRS51 6/27/2020 3/25/2020 69 Wire 6/27/2020 4/16/2020 47 Hoosier74 7/18/2020 3/18/2020 5/29/2020 72 u Jodiandfrank 7/18/2020 3/16/2020 78 u Westport 7/18/2020 4/3/2020 60 Foyt 7/25/2020 3/23/2020 71 u Whystayhome 7/31/2020 5/6/2020 27 u Jcrobinson48 8/12/2020 4/5/2020 6/1/2020 57 labate 8/14/2020 5/7/2020 26 u Clou 9/16/2020 3/27/2020 67 u TV24 10/3/2020 5/7/2020 26 u Whystayhome 10/24/2020 5/6/2020 27 u Not Jaded 12/20/2020 3/20/2020 74 Wire 12/20/2020 3/22/2020 72 u Clou 12/22/2020 4/13/2020 50 Average 70.5 -
5 minutes ago, Jcrobinson48 said:
Cruise date: 8/12
cancel booking date: 4/5
Deposits refunded: 6/1
cruise date: 5/23
seabourn cancels: 4/14
fare refund requested: 4/15
excursions refunded: 5/22
”in the queue for refund”: 6/1
booked direct with Seabourn
status: Diamond
Thank you
May I ask - are you in the US or not?
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Just now, Paulchili said:
Not for me 🙂
Cancelled 2/27 and still waiting for a tax refund.
Got an air change refund (requested also on 2/27) but in FCC instead of refund to CC which I am contesting.
I think it reasonable to believe that the process for Tax Refunds, Air Change refunds, excursion refunds are following different processes than those getting refunds for their cruise fares.
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17 hours ago, JodiandFrank said:
Cash refund for our 7/18/20 cruise which we cancelled before the penalty phase on 3/16/2020....and FCC credit (+25%) for our 11/7/20 cruise which was cancelled on 5/06/2020.
just curious - what kind of communication are you waiting for regarding the FCC credit? If you were to put a deposit on a cruise today, are you sure they would not just apply the FCC to the balance?
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18 minutes ago, Remember66 said:
Hi can you add me to your list.
booked Seabourn Quest sailing 5 April Manaus to Miami
Emailed TA - SixStar - on 26 March opting for 100% cash refund
excursions refunded within days
emailed TA for update a week ago and was informed I would not hear anything before 26 June
Welcome and thanks for the information. It will be interesting to see if your TA is correct. 90 days seems like an outlier to me.
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23 hours ago, JodiandFrank said:
Dear JPH814 -
Also, let me add another cruise of mine that was cancelled. Nov 7, 2020. Cancelled on May 6, 2020. We are waiting for our refund in FCC plus 25%.
let me understand....are you waiting for a cash refund or for notification that a FCC equal to 125% is in your account?
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22 hours ago, JodiandFrank said:
Dear JPH814 -
I also love data and am fascinated by what you have created with this spread sheet. I have twice suggested to people on Facebook on the various Seabourn pages that they should add their information to this “work of art”.
What are your thoughts to the possibility that Seabourn is also looking into the level of loyalty and prioritizing those with the highest level of loyalty above those with lesser levels? The airline certainly uses this system when issuing upgrades. Just a thought. I’m sure others will weigh in as I’ve learned this is not a shy crowd.Also, let me add another cruise of mine that was cancelled. Nov 7, 2020. Cancelled on May 6, 2020. We are waiting for our refund in FCC plus 25%.
Today is Day 75 that we are waiting for our first cruise cancellation refund.....
I have thought about the possibility of loyalty status level playing some roll in the issuing of refunds. It is possible. Frankly, if I were in charge, I might take that quietly into consideration. At least, I am sure that there is some subjectivity in some cases. It could be the "squeakiest wheel" or someone who has had a lawyer correspond. Or it could be a customer who books directly with Seabourn vs through a travel agent. I could see a customer who has been on many, many cruises who knows, and is known by, some corporate staff at Seabourn. It would not surprise me that they might get some preferential treatment
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11 hours ago, MMastell said:
I received the refund for my Antarctic cruise on 5/28. It was three weeks to the day I cancelled my cruise.
Can you please share the date of the cruise embarkation
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36 minutes ago, rallydave said:
And, now with nobody on the top effective tomorrow and without any press release not sure Seabounr will be around much longer.
Ceo's come and go all the time. This guy was with Seabourn for 35 years - 9 as CEO. I doubt they were caught without a succession plan in place.
7 minutes ago, notjaded said:Which is exactly why a credit card chargeback is the best course of action.
Smart move....without a CEO in place I am sure Seabourn will stop processing the refunds come monday morning.
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Beware- this is an example of someone with too much time on their hands and no sports to watch on TV
I admit, I am a data geek (as you might have noticed.) I like looking at data and trying to see trends or patterns. Here is a pattern in our data that I find interesting: (again, beware of small sample size)
Of the 14 people who have gotten cruise refunds, these 14 are distributed among 8 departure dates. I may be wrong, but I assume this also means that they all come from 8 specific sailings. Five of these dates represent 8 bookings - and all 8 bookings on our list of these dates have been refunded. One had 5 bookings and 4 of the 5 were refunded. The other 2 were one refund out of 3 bookings. So for these 8 sailing dates, 14 out of 18 people were refunded. (And this assumes that the 4 who I do not have as receiving refunds truly have not received refunds - they might not have reported back. )
When you look at the 8 dates involved, they include 4 dates in march ( 8 refunds), 2 in april (3 refunds), 1 in may (2 refunds) and 1 in July (1 refund) . Between the earliest refunded cruise (march 11 ) and the latest (July 18). There were 22 dates with 39 bookings - none have been returned.
My observation /hypothesis/question: Is Seabourn working cruise by cruise - completely finishing the refunds for one cruise - before moving on to the next one? And is the order of which cruise they are working on not necessarily chronological?
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52 minutes ago, rallydave said:
Would agree with you except all three large companies in the US have stated they have enough money for a year or more without any new money coming in so the money is there and the same money for refunds will be there in 60 or 90 or how long it takes to pay.
and don’t forget they are not sending out FCCs either and sending those out will allow people to book and send more money as well so IMHO not a good way to stay in business not to mention those of us who would book and help keep the lights on but won’t snd May never again because of the precedence being set.
I am not sure what "sending out future cruise credits" means. Are you saying that people who have the promise of a FCC are not able to book a cruise until they are sent some kind of a communication? So let's say I had a $3000 FCC coming and I called seabourn to book a cruise using the FCC, they would not accept the booking?
As for never booking again, you will either want to cruise again or not. And from the sounds of things, all of the other cruise lines have had similar complaints. So pick your poison, or give up cruising.
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46 minutes ago, Paulchili said:
In other words, we the customers, stand at the end of the line because other creditors would not put up with the cr**p we have to. Not a good place to be.
If that is where SB believes the customer belongs then it's time for me to patronize someone else (see my 3 other lines' responses above).
Not what I said at all. Nor what I believe is happening. I said balance. You will be seeing a lot of businesses balancing the same issues over the next year in every industry.
I think we will just agree to disagree on this.
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So a lot of chatter and at least some good news.
I decided to start tracking whether people are from the US (u) or from outside the US (n) . It will be interesting to see if any patterns are evident there.
As of Date: 5/31/2020 Cruise Fare Cruise Date Refund Request Date Refund Received Date Days since Request Request to Refund n Daliowner 3/11/2020 3/12/2020 5/31/2020 80 80 Flaminjune 3/14/2020 2/24/2020 5/13/2020 79 n Sueweldon 3/14/2020 3/15/2020 5/23/2020 69 u jkwestlake 3/21/2020 3/27/2020 65 u cruzluvers 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 83 Happyhoppies 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/23/2020 67 n Rambo Trout 3/22/2020 2/27/2020 5/12/2020 75 n Sunburned Tongue 3/22/2020 3/9/2020 5/31/2020 83 n Zimflyer 3/22/2020 3/17/2020 5/10/2020 54 n rgaudet 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 77 u TV24 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 77 Twinkles 3/28/2020 3/15/2020 5/18/2020 64 n Mauzac 4/5/2020 3/14/2020 78 n Scottie920 4/5/2020 3/16/2020 76 canadalin 4/8/2020 3/15/2020 77 Teamflames 4/15/2020 3/10/2020 5/25/2020 76 SF Voyage 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/24/2020 76 n Sunburned Tongue 4/17/2020 3/9/2020 5/23/2020 75 u Hencol 4/20/2020 3/31/2020 n Mauzac 4/20/2020 3/30/2020 62 u Marazul 4/22/2020 4/2/2020 59 n astride 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 62 u swaxxy 4/29/2020 3/30/2020 62 DC Traveler 5/2/2020 4/13/2020 48 u Bobal 5/6/2020 3/11/2020 5/24/2020 74 u mhf 5/6/2020 3/26/2020 5/21/2020 56 u Mark56 5/9/2020 3/16/2020 76 n Astride 5/16/2020 4/15/2020 46 u DFW 5/23/2020 4/16/2020 45 u jph814 (US) 5/23/2020 4/17/2020 44 u Zelker 5/23/2020 4/15/2020 46 DuffyMcDuffy 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 47 n ON Cruiser 5/31/2020 4/14/2020 47 u Flyfishingwidow 6/3/2020 4/15/2020 46 u Wyattsaubt 6/6/2020 4/15/2020 46 MTN1 6/23/2020 4/13/2020 48 crudoll 6/27/2020 4/15/2020 46 JRS51 6/27/2020 3/25/2020 67 Wire 6/27/2020 4/16/2020 45 Hoosier74 7/18/2020 3/18/2020 5/29/2020 72 u Jodiandfrank 7/18/2020 3/16/2020 76 u Westport 7/18/2020 4/3/2020 58 Foyt 7/25/2020 3/23/2020 69 u Whystayhome 7/31/2020 5/6/2020 25 labate 8/14/2020 5/7/2020 24 u Clou 9/16/2020 3/27/2020 65 u TV24 10/3/2020 5/7/2020 24 u Whystayhome 10/24/2020 5/6/2020 25 u Not Jaded 12/20/2020 3/20/2020 72 Wire 12/20/2020 3/22/2020 70 u Clou 12/22/2020 4/13/2020 48 Average 71.429 -
6 minutes ago, rallydave said:
Yes there is a reason and that is cash flow so they are more important than theri customer. Let's see how they do with cash and fewer customers.
Plus I understad with the Part 75 rules in the UK they only have 14 days to refund which from reading other boards, people who send a letter notifying the cruise line that they will file suit because of the 75 day limit have gotten their money immediately.
silly company...trying to stay in business.
Let's see, do we repay customers their deposits or pay our employees? Or do we pay the debt on the ships that we have built. Or the fuel bill or food bill (all that stuff that we ordered and had delivered and now we don't know what to do with ?
I know, let's balance things...delay a bit what we can, cut costs where we can. But let's keep the lights on so we can still be in business a year from now when things are (close to ) normal.
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7 hours ago, Mauzac said:
Whilst I am very pleased that people on this list are getting refunds because we're all in it together.. it is a tad irritating when there are funds credited on either cruise dates after ours, or refund request date after us. It means there is no pattern to this and I wonder if I should be shouting louder?!
I agree that it is unusual - or at least counter intuitive. But I can see a number of valid reasons.
- Was the credit due to a challenge through the credit card company or the normal flow of business?
- Was the customer in the US or another country, subject to different laws or regulations?
- Are all refunds the same? Are some more difficult to process than others? I know my reservation was on one ship, it was transferred to a different ship with a price adjustment, then the price went down so I got a further reduction. I can show credit card statements that I paid $10,000. But then there were two refunds of $1000 and $500 months later. I am due $8500. But it would be wrong to simple process the refund of $10,000 without looking to see what other refunds may have been already paid.
- Is there one flow of work - one "assembly line"? Or does different Seabourn employee or group of employees handle a certain ship or a certain cruise or a certain batch of requests? Are they all in the same city, subject to the same lockdown procedures? Are they able to work from home? Remember, there are people processing these refunds.
I could argue that there is a reason for Seabourn to delay all requests (for example, to manage its cash flow ). But I do not think there is someone picking and choosing which ones to delay just for the sake of delaying.
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1 hour ago, wesport said:
You are correct. I was a manager in retail for 36 years, and when we got a dispute, we dropped everything to respond to the dispute. With that being said, I understand the reasoning behind why people did this. I sent an email to the owner of the TA I use, and his generic response was that Seabourn is not acting like a luxury cruise line and asked for my patience.
13 hours ago, Paulchili said:I strongly disagree with your argument.
People didn't start disputing the charges with their credit cards until the waiting time was passed the promised delivery date and became unreasonable. If SB had acted in better faith there would have been no need or reason to file disputes.
From my personal experience I can tell you that Viking River refunded 2 of my deposits in THREE days; Oceania refunded 2 of my deposits in 42 days; American cruise line in about 1 month. I have read of some refunds on Celebrity in similar timeline.
I am over 90 days waiting for my SB tax refund.
All these lines (except American) are part of at least as large a group as SB is - they have as many if not more passengers to deal with and are doing a better job. If they could do it, why couldn't SB who labels itself luxury and charges luxury prices - one would expect luxury service as well (on and off the ship).
Yes and no.
If you read through the posts, some waited 60 days and then filed with their credit card companies and some did not.
I also agree that companies faced with these kinds of appeals through the credit card company have to prioritize them over regular business. Why? Because some of those challenges are not correct and, if they do not meet the credit card company's timeline, they must pay the claim by default. There is no question that resources dedicated to credit card disputes take away from resources available for normal flow processing.
Refund Roll Call
in Seabourn Cruise Line
Posted
I will forward the email to him. I sent it to two generic mailboxes: guest relations and PR.