OlsSalt

The tale of five Sept 2023 Alaska cruises - 1. HAL keeps winning the derby - for both fair price and itinerary. 2. Princess Itineraries are a joke with many standard repeats to make up their 14 day, even though costs less. 3. Seaborn competes for suite prices, but is very late in the season and has no toasty enclosed outdoor viewing space like the HAL Lido with the glass dome closed. HAL itinerary is more interesting to us, but this one is not bad. 14-day Sep 2 Vancouver, BC, Canada Vancouver, BC, Canada Princess / Majestic Princess $918 14-day Sep 6 Vancouver, BC, Canada Vancouver, BC, Canada Princess / Sapphire Princess $828 14-day Sep 9 Vancouver, BC, Canada Vancouver, BC, Canada Princess / Grand Princess $828 14-day Sep 17 Vancouver, BC, Canada Vancouver, BC, Canada Holland America / Noordam $1,259 14-day Sep 29 Vancouver, BC, Canada Vancouver, BC, Canada Seabourn / Seabourn Odyssey $4,661 (Suites only) (Similar price to Noordam Signature Suites)

Booked a recent Alaska cruise recently and compared taking the basic verandah with the ocean view have it all with a "free upgrade" to a verandah. It was still $300 more because the "have it all" was very pricey in its own right and certainly not "free" plus added things that did not interest us. So while it was a "special" it was still not a discount in any real terms. Unless you wanted/needed all the add ons.

Ha, ha. That reminds me of our visit to Dutch Harbor, Alaska and all we saw were tee-shirts with The Deadliest Catch logo on them. We had never watched that program, and were dismayed at the lack of choices, because those looked pretty grim and scary. After we got home we watched the old Nefllix of the early series to see what the fuss was about, and ended up getting totally hooked on the program and realized what that tee-shirt logo was all about. Then kicked ourselves we did not buy one, when we were actually there on the scene.

Isn't it strange that sea travel for the longest time did consist of several on-board classes of passengers. First class to steerage. Then it became primarily one-class travel for most cruise ships, but additional costs related to primarily to the type of cabin chosen, Now it looks like it is drifting back to multiple class travel, which is the true classic model for sea travel. The current one-class sea travel may not be viable revenue for cruising model after all. Word was more global deals were conducted in the Queen Mary First Class Lounge before dinner, than in the world's capitols. That was also the thrust of the recent HAL survey we got yesterday - listing any number of current included services and amenities, and asking if we would be willing to pay for priority access to them - from a reserved deck chair (classic sea travel amenity), etc, to priority dining times and dining room seating. And yes it truly did ask if we wanted the addition of staffers to apply sunscreen poolside.

Since they are not minor children, it is probably okay. I believe the rules limit only minors in cabins by themselves. Security I suppose would need to know who is in each cabin, in case anyone goes missing or there is an onboard emergency and people need to be accounted for.

The fate of the Zaandam.

We were on the same cruise, no problems at all for late fixed dining. So the problem is timing, since staffing levels cannot be instantly changed. Learning to be more flexible in timing choices might also now be a given to get the best situation for oneself.

Ominous.

By "material condition" you mean the decor of the ship, its systems like plumbing/HACV, or its seaworthiness? Having long sailed all the older HA ships, the only indication of age is the build up of paint layers against the relentless attacks of salt air - a constant battle with rust spots, but nothing that would affect its safety or stability. Decor seems to go through periodic refurbishments on a scheduled basis so some times it is better than others, Older plumbing-HACV systems can be more problematic on the older ships, and dependent upon where one is traveling - outside temperature the systems must contend with. And sadly with the degree of care of your fellow passengers when it come to flushing things down the toilet in disregard of posted prohibitions. The older systems do not seem to be as forgiving as the newer systems which are more responsive to human carelessness.

Never had that happen with late, fixed dining. So there is no one sweeping answer here about onboard dining experiences. Last cruise, we were easily out in under an hour. Should we complain this was "too fast"? Helps to identify more specifics about one's own dinging choices, because some choices are more heavily impacted, and those problems can be circumvented by making other choices. Worst back-ups we consistently see, and have seen, are at the lower dining room, opening time--open dining - 5:30pm or so. Plan accordingly.

Let's try serene, traditional, classic for "sedate". Agree, "self-contained" is too abstract, and was offered only as a descriptor; not a marketing slogan. Irony being when you have large numbers of return passengers who liked the more "sedate and self-contained" HAL cruise experience, this package does its own marketing. For the life of me,I don't understand why Oceania keeps sending me almost weekly heavy, glossy brochures. When do they realize I am a marketing fail for them and take me off their list? Yes, having more "sedate and self-contained" afternoon activities - lectures, with post-lecture discussions,, staff interactions -like the mystery box cooking contests, craft demonstrations (not sales pitches), float-your-boat contests, etc was a fun part of prior HAL cruising. Why they ended them? I don't know. But there is a dearth of those former, more minor and low key onboard activities today.No quibble with that. Which I chalk up to still being in the "post-covid" shakedown time until the entire industry gets its sea legs again.

HAL "offloaded" aging ships well past their 20 year expected life span, when repairs became more expensive than new builds. No, I am not joking. Let's see if we can create a reasonable discussion about future directions, and not rely on facts not in evidence - unless you can point to credible resources to back up your declarations. If other CCL brand want to become dinosaurs of the seas investing in bigger and more novelty on board, let them as they also find fewer ports willing to accept them for the travel experience, while they offer simply an onboard floating resort experience. Quite frankly, I would assume those would be the ships that are harder to fill and establish many return passenger. (Opinion) Larger, more novelty on board, with fewer itinerary options is one cruise model. HAL - sedate, more dedicated to travel exploration for the more self-contained passenger is another. HAL currently is caught in the middle trying to offer both. And probably failing as a brand as a result of this departure from its former loyal and older passenger base. (Opinion)

ITA. Options are fine. As long as they are honored and enforced and not become what they have become - free for all at all venues. (Eg Konigsdam). We spent time seeking out quiet places on the ship to get away from the constant noise ,even the Crows Nest had music piped in during the day which made quiet sitting and reading distracting. We found only one side room at the rear of the Crows Nest with no piped in music or turned down to be negligible. And the Ocean Bar during the day time hours had no piped in music. But both of these locations were indoors. No quiet outdoor locations, with shade, comfortable seating or easy access to any dining amenities. Which underscores why "God's Waiting Room" HAL ships had appeal since they did attract a quieter more sedate passenger base, who collectively wanted to honor and maintain a certain quieter level of outdoor and indoor noise ....by chosen , personal preference. One will find zero to no enforcement of the current informally designated quieter zones -eg: adults only aft pool. So trying to find this balance between the two ends of the spectrum has not been successful ....to date.

HAL has long been known as having the highest repeat passengers in the industry. Other cruise lines wonder, what is HAL's secret. Post-covid and with the addition of these new, larger builds, the past may not be prologue. We are HAL fans, but I doubt if we will ever sail their Pinnacle class again. The mystery remains, does HAL carry its own weight, or does CLL need to carry HAL? Or in reverse, does CCL want HAL to subsidize some of its other brands? CCL financials never disclose this since they offer only consolidated returns for the entire CCL brand. Not sure why some speak with such certainty about specific HAL finances and occupancy rates in this very first season after dropping all the "covid" restrictions. Alaska is pretty much sold out. When HAL sticks to what they do best. How many others waited to cruise again, only after the "covid" restrictions were lifted. Might be too early to say anything definite about HAL's ability to fill (all) their ships. Or compare the occupancy rates of the larger new ships which offer more limited and routine cruise options, when compared to the older smaller, more unique offerings which typically did run full.

We did flee the main pool area on the Konigsdam due to the really obnoxious piped in music. And fled the aft pool area due to the smoke and noise from the constant bar machinery. And asked to have the piped in music turned down at the Cabana (to the cheers of other cabana guests), from which we also finally fled due to letting six kids have a free run of this "adults only quiet retreat" spot (not the poolside cabanas, but the Crows Nest level cabanas. Yes, some of us to revel in the sounds of silence, at sea. Which is also my idea of heaven, if HAL ships are "God's waiting room" - so no reason to insult us old people.

Gosh, a cruise line that is sedate and only offers great itineraries. What a marketing fail. Who knew there was no niche for that particular combination. Interesting new HAL survey came yesterday, mainly about amping up pool side activities and upselling just about everything that was part of the smaller older ship experience, but now become more prized on the larger, more impersonal ships. Priority this and that. My own personal favorites among an almost horrifying list of new add-ons: Do we want attendants poolside to apply our sunscreen? Do we want a sunscreen boutique pool side? Do we want butlers to unpack our suitcases? Do we want live music poolside? HAL will lose as many as they gain when they tamper with their old and highly winning formula. Yet, they are an anonymous part of consolidated CCL financial reports, so none of us have the freedom to decide what works and what does not.

How would we ever know whether HAL's lower cruise costs are a result of having fewer frenetic onboard distractions; or as you conclude desperate need to fill their ships? Always associated "sedate" as being attractive to the more self-contained passenger; not being floating hospice operation. In fact, seeing passengers in various stages of mobility limitations on our very fist HAL first cruise was a plus, because it showed us cruising was going to be a travel option long after our own more active travel years started closing down.

Why should Hal try to escape its "sedate rut"? This remains a marketing plus, in the sea of livelier options. In fact, HAL should celebrate this endearing feature.

Paying off the billions of dollars CCL had to borrow during the 2 year long shut down, and then several seasons diminished occupancy sailings does have a ripple effect. Wonder how long it will take for CCL to move back into positive revenue range. "Covid" was hard on everyone, including those of those of us coming back to cruising again- re-setting expectations is part of the show-term fall out. I have a lot of sympathy for what they had to do to shut down, keep expensive inventory afloat and then get it all back in shape to accept passengers again. If we want to cruise again, these costs obviously have to be shifted to someone. Pretty basic economics at play, in this highly unfortunate global response to "covid". Environmental demands are having a huge impact on cruising. Many ports have very active forces shoreside who want at total shut down of the entire industry and that does impact port choices and availability. All part of the ESG corporate responsibility doctrine that is currently trending in every corner of corporate life. Fair or not, based on anything other than unfounded emotions and misdirected radicalism, it is real and cruise lines are vulnerable to these forces. Again, this has nothing to do with making excuses or "gouging" passengers. Just facts of life. Time to stop looking for issue to nitpick and just enjoy or pick another cruise line or activity that is better suited, than an industry that has more than a few more years to get back on their feet.

No, but you may turn into the Maytag Repairman. (Old TV ad joke reference)

Libraries in the past utilized wall space in the public areas. Agree, now many do bring their own electronic readers but that does not take away from the value of an onboard library allowing more serendipitous discovery, particularly for the longer cruises. Never found lectures not well attended, until they started the canned lectures after the Oprah franchising experiment, and now the generic, canned repeats they have CDs offer. I would assume a "free or discounted cabin", like for casino offerings, is the compensation for the lecturers. Typically they would offer three different lecturers on transatlantic or other more themed cruises.

A cruise in the equatorial zone (Singapore SEA in Feb) on the Westerdam is a good example of how some of the older ship's A/C do get stressed. Particularly if some other cabins leave their verandah doors open, hoping to beat the heat. Indeed, that does make other cabins ventilation system's appear to "not work". Hal does need to take this into consideration when planning routes on some of their older ships in the equatorial zones.

Turnaround day is very hard on the staff - they are deployed to so many other activities and do need to shut down venues for housekeeping and inventory duties as well. All those prior crew who staffed the serving venues are now getting luggage loaded and off loaded, getting cabins ready by onboard time, and any other of the double duties that take place on turn around day. Yes, it does feel empty when one first arrives, expecting a full serve operation. But delving deeper in to the daily demands of cruise ship operations, which run on a 24/7 basis with a fixed number crew, changes one's expectations. If you get the chance, take a "behind the scenes" tour of all levels of ships operations. It is eye-opening that they pull things off as well as they do in this closed system environment..

Those who want drinks after midnight should investigate other cruise lines ....to find the right match for their cruise preferences, when there is a wide variety of activities and service levels across the industry.

Food included on B2B Konigsdam Christmas-New Years was good to very good. It was the upcharge specialty restaurants that were disappointing, except for Canaletto which was excellent. We canceled our existing specialty restaurant reservations on our second segment, and stayed with the Lido and main dining room only.