USAir (3 threads combined)

[palmtre2]

Phlydude - I have tix for Southwest that I bought to backup my US AIR flight from PHL to FLL this month. Should I cancel them for a refund now??? It does look like USair will be okay or should I hold on to them and cancel, say the nite before?

[cindybeach]

Just flew USair this weekend through Phl and everything was fine and this was just after a snowstorm. We had no problems except a small delay which I am sure was weather related.

[phlydude]

Hold on to them and cancel them when you check your bags in. Provided you booked the SWA flight for the same time or after your US Air flight, of course!

 

It's always good to hold onto the extras as long as you can because although the airline is in decent shape for now, the other little items like weather in other cities and such can really screw things up for you if they aren't able to come through when you need them most!!

[Christina1003]

Alright guys, I need help. I received an e-mail from expedia that my flight itinerary was changed on me. I was catching flight number 301 departing at 9:15, now they bumped me to flight number 1471 leaving at 7:35. That leaves me hardly any time to get to the airport.

How frustrating! Do I have any recourse available to me? Do I have to accept the change? Is there any loop holes in booking that would enable me to not take this flight and get my money back? (Probably not!)

[SoCalCruiseguy]

Phlydude - I have tix for Southwest that I bought to backup my US AIR flight from PHL to FLL this month. Should I cancel them for a refund now??? It does look like USair will be okay or should I hold on to them and cancel, say the nite before?

 

Depending on the type of fare you purchased, it might be worthwhile to wait and do nothing. Any Southwest ticket no matter how restricted can have its value used towards another ticket, with no penalty or fee for up to a year. So if you bought the Southwest tix as a backup, why cancel before you begin your trip? Because when things go bad it usually is totally unexpected and at the worst possible time which for people going on a cruise, is the day you embark and you are going to miss the ship as a result. In fact, most people are at the airport before they realize that the day is not going to go as planned.

 

Buying back-up tickets is smart, using Southwest to buy the backups with the ability to buy one way and get refunds and/or credit no matter how cheap the fare is even smarter. Cashing them in before you'll truly know if you'll need them is not. Be careful about this one.

[Globaliser]

Do I have any recourse available to me? Do I have to accept the change? Is there any loop holes in booking that would enable me to not take this flight and get my money back? (Probably not!)

The first thing you should do is phone up and try to get them to change you back to your original flight. It's still operating, as far as I can see. The last flight to Orlando, at 2215, does seem to have been cancelled and they're probably just trying to shuffle everyone around between flights. See how you get on with that.

[tcocktail]

I have frequent flyer miles on Us Air. Being now that they just received half of the funds they need to stay open Are they going to survive? I was thinking of using the miles on United for Febr. 2006 but this is a tough call any thoughts?

[Globaliser]

Being now that they just received half of the funds they need to stay open Are they going to survive?

"Stay open" is a relatve concept. Next week? Yes. Next month? Very probably. Mid-June? Quite likely.

 

This time next year? Personally, with oil prices remaining high and US Airways having already ditched all its oil price hedging contracts to generate cash (IIRC), I wouldn't have thought so. But that's just my opinion.

[IrishRoamers]

We have nine free tickets booked on USAir for July 21 and 22 precruise. Should we look into backup flights? I know they should be ok through June but any thoughts on July? Even if another airline honors USAir tickets, they might not on the free ones. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks. Sue

[hdawson]

I think that's getting into a real iffy period. I think they have some pretty heafty debt payments in June.

[SoCalCruiseguy]

All things considered, I would probably use up or at least obligate as many us air miles as I could. I think the preferable route would be to book code share trips on united with us air miles for some date far out then, if you don't take the trip, rbook to different dates. It would be worth the 50-100 bucks just to keep from losing out all together. I would then use my remaining miles on some magazine subscriptions. And make no mistake, this strategy isn't full proof with united being in bankruptcy as well. But clearly us air is in far worse shape and by all accounts is teetering. Of all the defining moments for us air of late, the biggy was when southwest moved in to philadelphia and has been expanding ever since. That move broke the back of us air. Now with southwest moving into what was once one of us airs other big hub in pittsburgh in May I believe, it seems like southwest is trying to put us air away for good. So I would not wait for too long to do something. If you have reservations on us air beginning in June, I would definitely book some back ups now. Because with all of the airlines (except southwest and jet blue) cutting back their seat inventory and with already high passenger loads, if ANY airline goes belly up which is highly likely, you will pay through the nose for a seat(s) IF you can find one. Better to book a totally refundable on one of the discount airlines and not need it than do a "I wish I..." just before your cruise

[phlydude]

Southwest almost screwed us on a flight we took last weekend. Generally, they are in terminal E on PHL but recently, they took 2 US Air gates in Terminal D in PHL(D2 and D4). Going to where we would normally go we went through security and checked the monitors. D4 was the gate, not E10 like it normally is. Now, you would think if an airline is going to operate out of an airport, they would have all their flight between gates that connect without clearing security right? WRONG!! We had to leave E, hoof it over to D, wait in the LONG D security line and then run down to the gate with minutes to spare. So much for those "A" boarding tickets we waited up past mid-night to print for our 6:55 flight!!

 

If US Air goes away, I don't know what I'll do. While SWA is good for $39 trips to Boston, they don't always have decent flights and they don't leave the US mainland. No flights to San Juan on the cheap anymore and certainly nothing cheap to the islands...

[hdawson]

SoCal. AirTran is taking delivery of 19 new planes this year, part of a 100+ order with Boeing. Three domestic airlines are making money SW, JetBlue and AirTran. All three are expanding.

[IrishRoamers]

Looks like I can get some good refundable fares from Pittsburgh if I can be a little flexible with the days, which at this time, I can be. I'm glad I didn't use Priceline for the hotel. It's hard enough trying for airfare for all of us. Hopefully, USAirways will make it through July and I can spend that extra backup air money on something else. Thanks for the input.

[SoCalCruiseguy]

Yeah Air Tran (formerly value jet) is another low cost carrier doing ok and on the upswing, but they do have their own troubles and are nowhere the juggernaut that SW is or even Jet Blue is. Plus, taking delivery of new planes does not automatically equate to revenue or market share anyway. But its a positive sign. Regardless, no matter how U.S. Air comes out of this, IF they come out of it, the airline will be dramatically different. They have publicly stated this week that they intend to become a true low cost carrier. In plain speak that means a smaller more regional type airline. So the US Air (Allegheny) many folks from back east remember and are comfortable with I'm afraid is about gone. Many routes and gates if not the whole airline will be sold off regardless.

 

To me it makes sense if another of the bigger airlines that are in or near bankruptcy like United or Delta, snaps up US AIR. They both have their advantages. United is already codesharing with USAIR and knows the company, Delta would thrive on the eastern seaborn routes that they currently cherish and which USAIR is heavy in themselves. Delta would also love to try and spike SW and Air Tran on the east coast as well. The problem is that US AIR has so much debt, the only thing they have of value is their gates and routes and not much else. So why buy the name just to get the mountain of debt that comes with it? The smart money says that the creditors, stockholders and unfortunately, the employees will get stuck with that bag. I think this year will be a tell tale year in the airline industry in any regard. But until all of this shakes out, I think it behooves us all to ensure we leave extra, extra time to catch our ships and always have a plan "B" to go to. Given the amount of advance planning the average cruiser does anyway, this should not be much of a problem for most.

[Globaliser]

To me it makes sense if another of the bigger airlines that are in or near bankruptcy like United or Delta, snaps up US AIR. They both have their advantages. United is already codesharing with USAIR and knows the company, Delta would thrive on the eastern seaborn routes that they currently cherish and which USAIR is heavy in themselves. Delta would also love to try and spike SW and Air Tran on the east coast as well. The problem is that US AIR has so much debt, the only thing they have of value is their gates and routes and not much else. So why buy the name just to get the mountain of debt that comes with it?

It might make route-network sense in an ideal world, but the reality is that neither United nor Delta has any money with which to go buying anything. Both of them are fighting for their own survival as it is. UA's been in Chapter 11 for, what, about 2½ years now? DL may well go into Chapter 11 itself in the autumn of this year.

 

Even the stronger airlines like Continental are having problems. CO has just filed that it expects to post a significant full-year loss for 2005. When you're only 3 months into the year, and the fat months are yet to come, things have got to be really bad already.

 

The only thing that's really going to help the US airline industry is for US Airways and one other airline to go bust properly - I'd prefer UA to go bust myself. That way, either fares can then finally rise back up to economic and profitable levels, or the low fare airlines can expand to provide profitable services at the fares that the market is prepared to pay.

[bUU]

Even if Delta had the money, they wouldn't get SEC approval for an acquisition of US Airways. There is too much overlap between their service areas. United, on the other hand, has very little overlap with US Airways, but as Globalizer indicated, could in no way afford to acquire US Airways.

[phlydude]

Didn't the feds reject UA's purchase intent of UAIR about 3 or 4 years ago?

[Globaliser]

Didn't the feds reject UA's purchase intent of UAIR about 3 or 4 years ago?

Yes, but I think that was before both of them went into Chapter 11. Much of the landscape has changed since then; indeed, the shape of both companies is now rather different from how it was then.

[phlydude]

In any regard, the only airlines that are being profitable are the ones that pay lower wages, have new more efficient aircraft and have managed to hedge the gas prices with purchasing futures at rediculously low rates when gas went down to $.77/gal after 9/11

[hdawson]

Dude, in other words, those that have an effective and workable business plan.

If and when oil prices moderate, of course the legacy airlines will get some relief, however it only means more profits and power for the three profitable airlines making them an even more diffiult competitor.

[phlydude]

Effective and workable yes.

Not to say that some of the struggling airlines don't or didn't have an effective plan, the plan was just a little antiquated and couldn't take into account a major downturn in the travel industry that 9/11 provided.

 

The JetBlu's, AirTrans and SWAs of the world just had a plan that wasn't as antiquated and had a little more stretch like a new rubberband. Whereas the Delta's, USAirs and Uniteds of the world were that old crusty rubber band that falls apart when a variable changes it.

 

Anyway you look at it, the travel industry right now is at or above the levels prior to 9/11. The major problem is that it took 3 years to get there again while the price of oil increased substantially, the airlines hemoraged money as if their jugular was cut and they had to cut fares despite business plans telling them not to to try to lure the traveling public back.

 

In the past 3 years, I have travelled more by aircraft than the entire rest of my short life but was only able to do so because air travel over the past three years has been cheaper than it was prior to 9/11 and the value airlines have moved more operations into my gateway city.

 

While I have loyalty to US Air and have accumulated many miles with them in the past, if they can't match the fare of SWA or AirTran for $39 or $49 one-way along the east coast, I have no choice but not to fly them. I would never find a fare of $115 r/t to MCO from PHL with US Air but AirTran offers it from time to time.

[Globaliser]

Not to say that some of the struggling airlines don't or didn't have an effective plan, the plan was just a little antiquated and couldn't take into account a major downturn in the travel industry that 9/11 provided.

 

The JetBlu's, AirTrans and SWAs of the world just had a plan that wasn't as antiquated and had a little more stretch like a new rubberband. Whereas the Delta's, USAirs and Uniteds of the world were that old crusty rubber band that falls apart when a variable changes it.

I'm not sure that it's quite as simple as that, or that the plan was just "a little antiquated". Even without the 11.09.01 attacks, the legacy carriers would have been facing a bit of bloodbath. US domestic premium travel had already fallen off a cliff in the first half of 2001. The attacks have actually allowed those airlines to hide behind them when many of their problems are systemically very deep.

 

The advent of low-fare airlines had already meant that the legacy carriers should have been looking at what they offer, and why, and why their market should continue to pay the fares that they wanted to charge. Arguably, they had got fat and complacent from years of anti-competitive or stupidly competitive behaviour. For example, locking in passengers with the false "loyalty" engendered by over-generous frequent flyer schemes, or by giving away their premium product to low-yield customers (instead of trying to protect the premium cabin and selling the premium seats at premium fares that customers would actually pay). Once the market got tight, the reaction was then to cut costs. But all that happened was that they ended up offering a low-fare airline product at legacy airline prices.

 

The 2001 attacks were a big blow, but they needn't have brought the entire industry to its knees in the way that it has if the business plans were just a bit out. For a comparison, look at the airlines that operate in the regional Far East markets. When SARS struck, these airlines took a hit which was much bigger and deeper than that caused by the 2001 attacks in the US. Traffic was reduced to small fractions of what it used to be - 30% or less of normal in some cases. But the main airlines in the region remained profitable, because the business model was much more sound - for the reasons that have earned these airlines service reputations which are envied the world over.

[parody]

I'm not sure that it's quite as simple as that

 

I agree, but I would suggest that the anti-competitive nature of the legacy carriers had more to do with "slot controls" and "perimeter rules". Four of the USA's largest and busiest airports -- O'Hare in Chicago, La Guardia and John F. Kennedy in New York City, and Reagan National in Washington, D.C. had operated under both and could effectively keep at bay the new ("low fare") start-ups. According to http://www4.nationalacademies.org/news.nsf/isbn/0309070694?OpenDocument, Many new or low-fare carriers have [also] complained that major airlines undermine competition through "predatory" practices when a rival enters a market

[hdawson]

Parody. AirTran already serves Laguardia, Newark, two Washington airports (Reagan and BWI) and of course the busiest airport in the US, Atlanta where they are the second largest carrier.