Tipping is American, but ships are not American?

[bobbyleduck]

Yes, of course, when your cruise fare is highly discounted, your suggested gratuities, relative to the tips, will be higher as a percentage.

 

If you were cruising 2 years ago, then based on your level of suggested gratuities, my guess is that your cruise was 14 days (please correct me if I am wrong). If so, your cruise fare, per person, per day, was about $57.00. That is a pretty good bargain. Your suggested gratuities, as a percentage, are higher when the base is so low.

 

I mention this, because I would hate to have someone look briefly at your post and misunderstand. An 18.5% rate of suggested gratuities would be relatively unusual.

 

On our last 14 day cruise, our gratuities were the same as yours, but my base price was $1999 per person. Gratuities of $147 pp divided by $1999 yields a percentage of 7.3%.

 

All of this makes my central point. When I go to a restaurant and buy the $20 meal, my suggested tip is $3 to $4, and the person buying the $40 meal is expected to pay $6 - $8. The waiter or waitress does the same work, but gets more money from the person who buys the more expensive meal. On a cruise ship, when I book the less expensive accommodations and pay $794 for a 14 day cruise, I'm expected to pay 18.5 percent, but the person buying a more expensive cabin at $1,999 is only expected to pay a 7.3 percent tip. The cruise ship employees receive the same remuneration, no matter how much or what my accommodations.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[Denny01]

Since I just love to play with numbers (yes, I'm a sick man and that's why I go on cruises to recover), here are my averages for a TA and an E. Med.

 

I'm paying the relatively higher Concierge Gratuity rate for both, so much for the 'poor me' I have a cheap SR and have to pay the same amount as others:

E Med gratuity is 8.5%

TA gratuity is 10%

 

Pretty much what woodwine is saying.

 

As to the $20 guy paying less for the same service given the people with the $40 bill, yup, that's how it works for restaurants. My wife and I share a meal dining many times now, and since the waitstaff is serving two people but at a lower final cost, I usually up my tip beyond the set %. Since I go back to a restaurant many times, know the waitstaff and realize they are living on what they get as tips, that's how we handle it.

 

I'm sure those that begrudge tipping will continue to come up with excuses and rationale to nickel-dime the waitstaff.

 

Denny

[Karynanne]

Why is anyone here comparing land-based restaurants to cruises? It's an apples to oranges situation.

 

If you don't agree with the "tipping" policies...then don't cruise. It's not going to change, and it's really a very small, insignificant aspect of your whole travel experience.

 

I can't believe how some posters nitpick every little thing. Just go...enjoy yourself...pay your bill...and relish the memories.

[Ma Bell]

Mr Duck,

 

The waitstaff in the dining rooms are serving the same food to people whether they are in the less expensive cabins or a suite, so the food cost is the same. You're the one who's getting a bargain. The room attendants are cleaning your cabin the same way they clean all the others. The people in the suites have an extra person to tip, called the butler. If you're having a drink at the bar it's the same as anyone else regardless of your cabin status. You're tipping for service on food, beverage and housekeeping, not on the price of the real estate. I'm glad you're not my financial advisor. LOL

[Amerie]

All of this makes my central point. When I go to a restaurant and buy the $20 meal, my suggested tip is $3 to $4, and the person buying the $40 meal is expected to pay $6 - $8. The waiter or waitress does the same work, but gets more money from the person who buys the more expensive meal. On a cruise ship, when I book the less expensive accommodations and pay $794 for a 14 day cruise, I'm expected to pay 18.5 percent, but the person buying a more expensive cabin at $1,999 is only expected to pay a 7.3 percent tip. The cruise ship employees receive the same remuneration, no matter how much or what my accommodations.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

I fail to see that you have made a valid point.

 

If I sail in cabin A and pay the original asking price, my suggested tips are a fixed amount per day. In the example above, the amount was $10.50 per day. If I am lucky enough to get a price reduction, the amount that I pay for the cabin goes down, but the amount of work that is expected of the waiters and stewards remains the same, and the suggested gratuity remains the same. I would NEVER expect that I should pay less tips because I was fortunate enough to pay less for the cabin.

 

On one of my recent cruises, the final price that I paid was half of what it was when I booked the cruise. Should I have paid half the amount in tips? Of course not. My relative rate of gratuities increased from 8% to 17% as a function of the lowered base price, but that is entirely meaningless in terms of the amount of gratuity that should be paid.

 

As far as the contention that the amount of tips suggested for a person in an inside cabin should be less than the amount of tips suggested for a person in a veranda stateroom, I would argue that the amount of work required of the stateroom attendant or the dining room wait staff is the roughly the same. Room service might be different if you have a balcony and request balcony set up, but room services is tipped separately, and I would hope, according to the level of service received. If you are in Concierge Class, the suggested gratuities are slightly higher, and there are extra suggested gratuities in suites. The vastly higher prices of suites is primarily an issue of real estate. Tips are calculated on the basis of service costs. I assume that Celebrity knows what is just and fair to suggest for gratuities in the more expensive suites. After all, they need to retain the best staff they can in order to continue to sell their product, which is well known to be based on excellent service.

 

With respect to your example of a restaurant, the difference in the final bill is more often a function of the amount that is ordered (appetizer, entree, dessert as opposed to entree only). More food or courses require more work for the waiter. Two rounds of drinks require more service than one. One area where this does not hold as well is in the differences in the price of alcoholic beverages, which can cause a restaurant bill to skyrocket (e.g. double Lagavulin on the rocks vs. a draft beer...same relative work, bigger bill). (Edited to say, if you can afford to drink like that, you can afford to pay your tips!!)

 

This is my philosophy on the subject: Take a cruise at the level that you can afford. Pay the suggested gratuities with good grace. The staff deserve it, and the rate is NOT high. Try and bring a positive attitude to all things. Life is too short to do otherwise.

[wvufan]

Why is anyone here comparing land-based restaurants to cruises? It's an apples to oranges situation.

 

If you don't agree with the "tipping" policies...then don't cruise. It's not going to change, and it's really a very small, insignificant aspect of your whole travel experience.

 

I can't believe how some posters nitpick every little thing. Just go...enjoy yourself...pay your bill...and relish the memories.

 

AMEN!

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[Karynanne]

I fail to see that you have made a valid point.

 

If I sail in cabin A and pay the original asking price, my suggested tips are a fixed amount per day. In the example above, the amount was $10.50 per day. If I am lucky enough to get a price reduction, the amount that I pay for the cabin goes down, but the amount of work that is expected of the waiters and stewards remains the same, and the suggested gratuity remains the same. I would NEVER expect that I should pay less tips because I was fortunate enough to pay less for the cabin.

 

On one of my recent cruises, the final price that I paid was half of what it was when I booked the cruise. Should I have paid half the amount in tips? Of course not. My relative rate of gratuities increased from 8% to 17% as a function of the lowered base price, but that is entirely meaningless in terms of the amount of gratuity that should be paid.

 

As far as the contention that the amount of tips suggested for a person in an inside cabin should be less than the amount of tips suggested for a person in a veranda stateroom, I would argue that the amount of work required of the stateroom attendant or the dining room wait staff is the roughly the same. Room service might be different if you have a balcony and request balcony set up, but room services is tipped separately, and I would hope, according to the level of service received. If you are in Concierge Class, the suggested gratuities are slightly higher, and there are extra suggested gratuities in suites. The vastly higher prices of suites is primarily an issue of real estate. Tips are calculated on the basis of service costs. I assume that Celebrity knows what is just and fair to suggest for gratuities in the more expensive suites. After all, they need to retain the best staff they can in order to continue to sell their product, which is well known to be based on excellent service.

 

With respect to your example of a restaurant, the difference in the final bill is more often a function of the amount that is ordered (appetizer, entree, dessert as opposed to entree only). More food or courses require more work for the waiter. Two rounds of drinks require more service than one. One area where this does not hold as well is in the differences in the price of alcoholic beverages, which can cause a restaurant bill to skyrocket (e.g. double Lagavulin on the rocks vs. a draft beer...same relative work, bigger bill). (Edited to say, if you can afford to drink like that, you can afford to pay your tips!!)

 

This is my philosophy on the subject: Take a cruise at the level that you can afford. Pay the suggested gratuities with good grace. The staff deserve it, and the rate is NOT high. Try and bring a positive attitude to all things. Life is too short to do otherwise.

 

Very well stated!

[lauralou2]

Oh pooh!:D I'm hurt! I'll have to get over it...

 

At least there are ports all over the world where retailers, taxis, you name it accept DOLLARS... or EUROS... Just don't offer a pound 'stirling'... unless you want to be laughed at (or worse)!:eek:

 

Well that wasn't very nice we know we in trouble at the moment but aren't you in the US also suffering a little and I thought you were all such nice folks :)

[woodofpine]

Woodofpine,

Sorry but not continuing with your pointless discussion,I am quite prepared to try and understand the transatlantic point of view, but clearly you are not.

 

OK John, maybe I've been too pointed - sorry. But, with London and UK cities adding service charges and citing expectations of cash tips, your view appears limited to the dales. I don't accept your faux cosmopolitanism.

 

Sure - many cultures don't tip much. But cruising is not 'American' 'English' or the culture of any other shorebound provinciality. It is international on ITS OWN TERMS and cruisers are sophisticated enough people as a group to know 'the score' - before they book. It gets my hackles up when commentators play this provincial national culture game for a simple result - to shirk their fiscal responsibilities to the service crew. ('We're better than you so we can stiff THEM!') That's THE POINT of 'my pointless discussion'.... Arghh!!

[woodofpine]

Well that wasn't very nice we know we in trouble at the moment but aren't you in the US also suffering a little and I thought you were all such nice folks :)

 

That WAS a zinger, wasn't it? Sorry. Blame it on me grand dad, from Darbyshire... that stuff skips a generation.:D Won't be long before the greenback and the quid are in the same boat (ok, the quid will be at the helm...) ANYBODY GOT SOME YUAN OUT THERE!!:eek:

[lauralou2]

Im English and I don't think Im better than anyone I do not stiff the crew who do an amzing job i pay the gratuities up front because thats the way it is on a cruise please do not tar us all with the same brush ' from your Fish called Wanda quote I take it you don't like us to much ? :)

[lauralou2]

That WAS a zinger, wasn't it? Sorry. Blame it on me grand dad, from Darbyshire... that stuff skips a generation.:D Won't be long before the greenback and the quid are in the same boat (ok, the quid will be at the helm...) ANYBODY GOT SOME YUAN OUT THERE!!:eek:

 

ok I'll back off now , hopefully its just your sense of humour and maybe I was a little touchy [ perhaps the truth hurts ]:)

[Denny01]

Interesting that the OP kicked this thread off, gave a quick response and has left it adift.... kind of like the OP's earlier thread about wearing jeans in the MDR. Hmmmm, anybody catch on what this was started for?

 

But to try to digress from the 'cultural' discussions and bashings, my personal view is a few people will always look for any excuse to stiff the workers or just complain about paying anything. We have them in the States and they are everywhere. What I find interesting on this thread is how someone who has been given a very nice discount on their stateroom, probably after initial booking, then has the unbelievable gall to complain that the gratuity rate is so high for them. Huh? The problem can be solved by keeping the SR at the agreed-to level when you booked, give the good deals only to new bookings then your gratuity rate would be so much lower. Complaint fixed.

 

But of course, another angle on 'I don't want to pay my way' will be found. Tiring.

 

Denny

[woodofpine]

Interesting that the OP kicked this thread off, gave a quick response and has left it adift.... kind of like the OP's earlier thread about wearing jeans in the MDR. Hmmmm, anybody catch on what this was started for?

 

But to try to digress from the 'cultural' discussions and bashings...

 

Denny

 

Duh... You mean we been HAD by a Troll!!!

 

A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I hope we can all agree on one thing,

them Norwegians are

Sons a B*itchs!!:eek:;):eek:

[bobbyleduck]

What I find interesting on this thread is how someone who has been given a very nice discount on their stateroom, probably after initial booking, then has the unbelievable gall to complain that the gratuity rate is so high for them. Huh? The problem can be solved by keeping the SR at the agreed-to level when you booked, give the good deals only to new bookings then your gratuity rate would be so much lower. Complaint fixed.

 

Denny

 

Ouch! Or, it would be ouch if it were true. Regarding each of my five bookings, I have never, not ever, received a lower price than my initial booking price. That may be because I wait until the last possible moment to book my cruise and by then all of the discounts are in. I take into account all the cost associated with the vacation, and if that means my wonderful wife won't get as many souvenirs, or there will be one less excursion, so that the crew will get their tips, then that's as it will be. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to deliver, yet, another sermon at those of us who, by choice or circumstance, try to get the best deal we possibly can when vacationing.

 

By the way, for all of you who choose to tell us when we can and can't cruise, based upon whatever criteria you've chosen. Please! We have already made those decisions and no additional help from you is needed.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[Ma Bell]

Mr Duck,

 

The waitstaff in the dining rooms are serving the same food to people whether they are in the less expensive cabins or a suite, so the food cost is the same. You're the one who's getting a bargain. The room attendants are cleaning your cabin the same way they clean all the others. The people in the suites have an extra person to tip, called the butler. If you're having a drink at the bar it's the same as anyone else regardless of your cabin status. You're tipping for service on food, beverage and housekeeping, not on the price of the real estate. I'm glad you're not my financial advisor. LOL

 

How about addressing this. What you tip has nothing to do with the price of your cabin.

[FinelyCruising]

Ouch! Or, it would be ouch if it were true. Regarding each of my five bookings, I have never, not ever, received a lower price than my initial booking price. That may be because I wait until the last possible moment to book my cruise and by then all of the discounts are in. I take into account all the cost associated with the vacation, and if that means my wonderful wife won't get as many souvenirs, or there will be one less excursion, so that the crew will get their tips, then that's as it will be. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to deliver, yet, another sermon at those of us who, by choice or circumstance, try to get the best deal we possibly can when vacationing.

 

By the way, for all of you who choose to tell us when we can and can't cruise, based upon whatever criteria you've chosen. Please! We have already made those decisions and no additional help from you is needed.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

...every now and then there needs to be dialog just like this in order to educate and eliminate some of the heavy handed assumptions that are made without the benefit of all the facts.

[FinelyCruising]

How about addressing this. What you tip has nothing to do with the price of your cabin.

 

It does a little bit....The CC/Aqua Class cabins have a larger rate of suggested as do the suites. There are also additonal services that are being provided.

 

But maybe for the sake of argument we can just stick to Inside and Oceanview and Basic Verandas and I'll shut up now. :o

[Ma Bell]

I think I said that. The equation of the total cost of the cruise as a percentage tip has nothing to do with service issues. The more service you have the more tipping there is. It has nothing to do with the price of the real estate.

[Denny01]

Here I am, posting (again!) on a thread started by a Troll so they can enjoy exactly what we've turned this into, a group of us making comments about 'cultures' we know little about, others (me at least) making incorrect assumptions, and still others complaining because they are paying a 'higher percentage', although we are all paying a fixed amount for the same service. The Port Fee is also a fixed amount, so are the drinks, specialty restaurants, excursions and so on. I know, some are optional. But I guess I'm just missing the point. Please don't 'explain' it to me, I think I'd rather gargle with Drano then read another post on this thread.

 

Enjoy.

 

Denny

[FinelyCruising]

I think I said that. The equation of the total cost of the cruise as a percentage tip has nothing to do with service issues. The more service you have the more tipping there is. It has nothing to do with the price of the real estate.

 

I think that brings it right back to where it belongs, that Basic Service includes the same things for everyone, and that the structure of the ships is such that it doesn't matter where they come from, or what country the guests come from, there is an add on for Basic Services.

[nomo4iz]

My facetious observation was taken rather seriously I see :) I for one do not subscribe to the "take it or leave it" attitudes of many. Markets are consumer-driven, and if you are not providing a service or product that your customers want, then your business suffers. Celebrity will apparently soon discontinue midnight buffets. Why? Because the majority of their passengers don't want to stay up that late and eat. Celebrity's smoking policies are also consumer-driven, as most of their customers do not smoke. Mandatory gratuities are obviously something that their customers dislike as well, if comments on this forum are any indication. I have a feeling that it is only a brief matter of time before their passengers make their feelings known about this and their policy changes.

 

BTW, if I did not respond quickly enough for some of you, it's simply because I do not check this with the frequency that some others seem to, nor do I enjoy arguing. Some of you apparently do, to each his own.

[Giorgi-one]

All I can really get out of these discussions is that some people are just looking for an excuse to stiff the crew. It makes no difference whether gratuities are included or not included in the cruise fare - the cost will be the same. There is no cruise line that could afford to pay gratuities without charging the passengers. Their profit would not come close to covering this cost. If you like to cruise, it is definitely to your advantage to see that the cruise lines stay in business. Their profit margins are not that high and they need to make enough money to pay for all the new ships that everyone seems to like.

 

Someone mentioned that they do this to be competitive with other forms of vacation. That is correct. Almost all people in the service industy depend on tips for most of their compensation. This includes people in restaurants, hotels, cabs, etc. Would everyone be happy if hotels included a charge for tips to bellboys and cleaning staff. I would guess that most people never think to leave a tip for the maid in a hotel.

 

I have been on 25 cruises on all the mass market lines and the crew has always done a great job. We always tip more than the minimum and prefer to have suggested gratuities charged to our shipboard account.

 

If someone really cannot afford the measly suggested gratuities for a cruise, then they really cannot afford the cruise. Not a criticism - just being realistic.

[Ma Bell]

My facetious observation was taken rather seriously I see :) I for one do not subscribe to the "take it or leave it" attitudes of many. Markets are consumer-driven, and if you are not providing a service or product that your customers want, then your business suffers. Celebrity will apparently soon discontinue midnight buffets. Why? Because the majority of their passengers don't want to stay up that late and eat. Celebrity's smoking policies are also consumer-driven, as most of their customers do not smoke. Mandatory gratuities are obviously something that their customers dislike as well, if comments on this forum are any indication. I have a feeling that it is only a brief matter of time before their passengers make their feelings known about this and their policy changes.

 

BTW, if I did not respond quickly enough for some of you, it's simply because I do not check this with the frequency that some others seem to, nor do I enjoy arguing. Some of you apparently do, to each his own.

 

Weren't you the originator of this thread? If so and you don't like to argue, why would you make a facetious observation?

[jackdiamond]

Giorgi-One-I totally agree with your observations. We have also cruised about 25 times in the last 11 years; and, we have always tipped properly. Furthermore, we support the auto tipping system , both on cruise ships ,and in restaurants. It is simply a necessary fact of life, because there are some who who will deny a meager existence to those who serve them. Contrary to what one person opined, I believe that mandatory tipping, without any possibility of evasion, will soon become the norm for the entire cruise industry.