If you are thinking of cruising MSC....STOP and reconsider.Better to take a drive!!

[MaryBT]

After reading all this I think I can sum it up:

 

Sometimes it's great.

Sometimes it isn't.

 

P.S. I do want pickles and cheese with my hamburger.

[czechmate]

MaryBT - if you are cruising with MSC then you WILL find pickles, cheeses and LOTS more to enjoy wih your hamburgers.

[czechmate]

MaryBT - if you are cruising with MSC then you WILL find pickles, cheeses and LOTS more to enjoy wih your hamburgers.

 

I would sum it up like this :

 

With the right attitude you are guaranteed a great experience

With the wrong attitude you can only blame yourself.

[IslandGuy627]

It was fascinating to read these exchanges, so I thought I would share our experience. We sailed last January on the Opera, and can't wait to do it again next year.

 

Many of darmanad's just didn't make sense. 4 hours in a pool chair waiting for someone to offer him water? Water was available on the pool deck, as was coffee and tea. You had to get off your duff and get it. No problem for me. Don't know about him. I don't need that level of attention, I guess. Pizza was as good as any New York pizzeria. Always fresh, and they would make it the way you wanted it if you asked. They also made calzones.

 

Of course there were pastas every night. It's an Italian cruise line. I always asked what the Maitre d' was preparing. Some were absolutely out of this world. I am sorry you couldn't get Ranch dressing over everything. Oil and vinegar was ok by me.

 

Our waiters were courteous, and prompt. We ate nightly in the dining room, as the meals were always something to look forward to. Never wanted to eat in the buffet, but we did at my wife's insistance. I am not a buffet fan, but the variety was impressive. We had room service coffee and rolls every morning. Frankly, I love the European hard rolls in the morning. Not a pancake fan.

 

What was, at times, infuriarating, was the attitude of the Americans. Very demanding. Not understanding of the staff, whose first language was not always English. We had a good time of it, often having to mime what we wanted. It gave a european flair to the cruise that we would not have had on Celebrity or Princess. I was so embarassed by my fellow Americans, that I spent 2 nights in the Casino pretending to be French.

 

Was everything perfect? No. But then again, I just spent 4 days at the Breakers in Palm Beach, and I could fill a page with what I thought was wrong. Yes, I was frustrated with my daily dance with the shower curtain. Yes, the pastries could benefit from a little more sugar or cocoa, but it is the European way. And that made it more of an adventure.

 

We have thought about Cunard for our next cruise, but after thinking about it, we enjoyed MSC so much, we find it hard to beleive anyone else could give us the same experience. We have, indeed, booked our 2006 cruise already, and are looking foward to it.

 

As for Mr. Darmanad, I am kind of glad we won't meet... and to you and other similar Americans, I say "bon soir"

[love to cruz]

IslandGuy 627: You are my hero. I too am very embarrassed to be an American. I am ashamed of the way some Americans think the world owes them. In life we get exactly what we give. Smile and the world smiles back, appear angry or insulting and the world reacts equally. We absolutely fell in love with the Opera on her transatlantic sailing and plan on going again next April.

[ozdick]

It's great to hear everyone's opinion on MSC cruises.

I'm booked on the Lirica for it's 12th Nov sailing from Genoa. The idea of heading to ports where 4 of the 7 wonders of the ancient world were sounds fascinating.

 

I'm glad to hear that the positive experiences seem to outweight the negatives.

The bad reports reminded me of my travels to the US back in 2002 (I'm an Aussie by the way).

One of the stops was at the Grand Canyon. It was a warm night at the hotel I was staying at and I don't know why, but one of the guys there had the door open to his room (perhaps the airconditioning was on the fritz).

He had his TV on, but at low levels - and we were right next door and could hardly hear it (it certainly didn't stop us from having a comfortable and relaxing night's sleep).

But the next morning at checkout, one of the other guests believed that this guy had destroyed his trip and was demanding free accommodation for the night because he had been unable to sleep.

Well fair enough - that's his right to complain. But the point I'm trying to make here, is that this guy's complaining was so loud and so beligirent that it was incomprehsibly worse (more irritating, more noisy, etc etc) than the guy who had the door to his room open.

I just hope that when I take the cruise that those who do wish to complain, do so in a more private matter - rather than believing that all those around them should be forced (or even want to) share in their misfortunes

[darmanad]

Gee whiz guys, chill out. Have I been uncivil? Am I not entitled to write about my experience? That is what I thought this site was all about.

Even though I think self hate both pathological and pathetic I confess I find it kind of amusing to read the vitriol leveled at both "Americans" and me that the damning review of my Armonia cruise has generated. At the risk of being accused of "ranting", I´d like to share two final thoughts with those of you who apparently have enough spare time on your hands to actually read this thread. The first concerns the MSC Armonia. The second, and more important, concerns the idiotic put down of Americans and "American cruising" .

 

1. As far as I can tell none of the writers who attack me for spreading a negative word about MSC were on the Armonia cruise that I reviewed. You would expect that those coming to the defense of MSC would at least address the specific shortcomings I detailed instead of belittling me and/or glorifying their own , but different MSC cruise experiences. To her credit Magwa reported the Armonia experience is vastly different outside of Brasil where I sailed her, at least impliedly conceding that my specific criticisms were valid. I won´t here reiterate the multitudinous Armonia shortcomings, but it is my opinion that no one in their right mind, American or European, could seriously dispute the validity of most of my negative observations - you could only argue that they were not the MSC norm. For example, I thought it wrong to have to wait in line 1 hour to first obtain a dining room table assignment. Likewise, having to "get off my duff" to fetch a pool waiter to get me a drink during the course of an entire afternoon poolside doesn´t meet my expectations re service. If you think otherwise, in my opinion you lack credibility. I don´t expect to be cottled on a mass market product, but I do expect a modicum of decent service. ( I, too, like pasta, but not with the same sauce every single time. Ditto for no choice of salad dressing).

Other writers have lauded other MSC ships. Fine. Other MSC ships may offer a great product. I will only say that while it is possible that the bad cruise I experienced was an abberation and that the usual Armonia/MSC cruise is really great, it is hard for me to imagine that a company that could offer up such bad food, service, and management as I experienced could ever get it right. But, hey, maybe it was just an anomaly. What confounds me, however, is the assumption of those that attack me personally that I must be a difficult person ( read typical American) just because I wrote what I experienced and now refuse to let them put me down or write me off as a crank ( read typical American). Contrary to the vacuous platitudes I read here like "a good attitude will always ensure a good time" ( maybe ignorance is bliss), a laughably bad product is only laughable after the fact.

 

2. Anti-americanism dovetails with the red herring of "Italian cruising". I take issue with the attack on Americans found scattered through this board by europeans and Americans. I disagree that Americans think they own the world, are ruder than europeans, complain too much, too loudly or are more difficult to please; or that there is a significant difference between American cruising and Italian cruising. It is cliche to say that Germans rudely hog poolside chairs, that Israelis are too outspoken, that Italian or South American men are chauvinistic, Parisians too egotistical, Polish are dumb, Irish are drunkards, etc. People are people. There are friendly, generous, polite persons of every ethnicity and nationality and the converse is also true.Bores abound. If anything, social class and education determine good manners more than nationality. I think it is a sad ( and telling) statement for an American to pretend to be French out of embarassment for his nationality. Americans have a lot to be proud of even as the Bush administration wastes the country´s good will and cultural capital. One can love his country and culture without having to like his government.

My own speculation about how Americans got a bad rap for being narrow minded/bad tourists dates back to the years right after WWII when a broader spectrum of American social classes had the means to visit foreign counties whereas only the better educated and wealthier ( e.g. "sophisticated") europeans could so. Be that as it may, all this hype about Italian cruising as being more sophisticated strikes me as sheer jingoist nonsense and/or psuedo sophistication. From what I can tell, the only defining factor of what is touted as Italian cruising is slightly more erratic service. And no art auctions. Big deal.

[Al_Frescoe]

Quite an interseting thread, but frankly I don't know how I managed to get through the whole thing.

 

MSC sounds to me very much like the now defunct Festival line, and I am wondering if maybe some of the new MSC ships might not be some of the repossessed Festival ships. I know Festival had a couple of fairly new ships before they went under.

 

Anyone know what happened to the newer Festival ships? Sorry if I am way off topic.

 

Skål

[henri]

Al_frescoe,

 

the 5 ships of Festival (in U.S. known as First European), and new names were:

 

European Vision (2001) := MSC Armonia

European Stars (2002) := MSC Sinfonia

Azur := The Azur

Flamenco := New Flamenco

Mistral := Iberostar Mistral

 

B.t.w., you live in a beautifull city, I was there in May 2003 on Grandeur o/t Seas.

 

Henri.

[Al_Frescoe]

Al_frescoe,

 

the 5 ships of Festival (in U.S. known as First European), and new names were:

 

European Vision (2001) := MSC Armonia

European Stars (2002) := MSC Sinfonia

Azur := The Azur

Flamenco := New Flamenco

Mistral := Iberostar Mistral

 

B.t.w., you live in a beautifull city, I was there in May 2003 on Grandeur o/t Seas.

 

Henri.

 

Henri,

 

Thanks for the update. Are the Azur and the Flamenco also part of MSC's fleet?

[henri]

Aye, Al_Frescoe,

 

New Flamenco is owned by Cruises Elysia and chartered to Travelplan.es

 

Azur is allready no more The Azur, but now called Royal Iris, owned by Golden Cruises and in charter by Mano Cruises (Israel).

 

Henri.

[alicia68]

I am very sorry that you did not enjoy your MSC cruise. At my office we have a rule and that is NEVER put an experienced cruiser on this line. We don't care if they are adamant about wanting this line or not, we know they usually come back feeling this same way. If a person has never cruised before we explain things inside and out. This cruiseline has more of a european flavour and is generally not for the North American pallette. This doesn't mean that it is a bad cruising experience, just different and not for everyone. I am wondering though why did your TA not explain in detail to you about MSC and give you some past client feedback on this cruiseline?

[Emdee]

Alicia, I dont understand your rule in your office. Instead tell your experienced cruisers exactly what they are in for and let them decide. I am an experienced cruiser but that doesnt mean that I dont enjoy RCCL even while I enjoy Radisson. I even enjoyed the cruise on Olympic Voyager a couple of years ago. What the ship lacked in entertainment it made up with a wonderful itinerary and an extremely cheap price on an Air Transat package.Now did I enjoy Air Transat even though we went Club class ... that is another matter altogether.

[nitnyleo]

I'm also booked on the 12Nov Lirica sailing.

 

Thanks for your post that linked to the shore excursions...while I usually try to do things on my own, I think I shall rely on MSC for our stops in Egypt and Turkey.

 

Thom

[goeurope]

Alicia, I dont understand your rule in your office. Instead tell your experienced cruisers exactly what they are in for and let them decide.

 

I agree. It's like telling someone who's always visited American tourist destinations not to visit a European city because it might seem foreign--or like telling regular Ritz-Carlton or Hilton guests not to stay at the Savoy, the Plaza-Athenee, or the Gritti Palace because the experience might be new to them. Granted, some cruise guests might be like the retired exec from Michigan who, on a European luxury cruise, asked: "Why can't they serve *real* Italian food like spaghetti and meatballs?" But just because some "experienced cruisers"are rubes doesn't mean all of them are.

[bigmike7]

I am very sorry that you did not enjoy your MSC cruise. At my office we have a rule and that is NEVER put an experienced cruiser on this line. We don't care if they are adamant about wanting this line or not, we know they usually come back feeling this same way. If a person has never cruised before we explain things inside and out. This cruiseline has more of a european flavour and is generally not for the North American pallette. This doesn't mean that it is a bad cruising experience, just different and not for everyone. I am wondering though why did your TA not explain in detail to you about MSC and give you some past client feedback on this cruiseline?

 

Yo-

 

I think that we qualify as Experienced Cruisers - and our 3/31/2005 "Lirica" cruise was the best that we have taken since our last Sitmar cruise in 1986 - bar none - (see my review elsewhere in here)-

 

I would really appreciate getting the name of your firm so that I may steer very clear of it - and warn others to do likewise-

 

Mike

[fin]

On the Lirica, I could not get simple questions answered, such as when will we get our passports returned? On the last day when it was time to tip (they are not included as they are on the other lines I use) nobody would change large US bills to smaller ones. When I called the info desk to ask a question, Mario answered with 'did you not get the material which was sent to your room?'. As I was dealing with jetlag from an all night flight, I had not gotten out of bed yet, and I found his answer rude. The front desk routinely gave incorrect answers to routine questions. I had incorrect charges on my bill, stood on line, they crossed out the charges and yet they reappeared on the final bill. There were many times of the day and night when NO food was available except for room service, which was very limited and which cost extra.

 

It is tiresome and irritating to hear people try to blame these events on the fact that I am an American or have a bad attitude. Both may in fact be true, but are irrelevant to this situation. The front desk crew did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to try to make the cruise any less stressful than it turned out to be.

I repeat, I will not use them again, nor would I encourage other Americans to do so...not because our expectations are unrealistically high, but because, whether it is true or not, they act like they do not like Americans. As I said elsewhere, I got the impression that the passengers were an inconvenience, to be suffered with massive sighs and shrugs, and that the entire ship was being run for the comfort and convenience of the crew. These are opinions, not facts, and are therefore not subject to rebuttal.

[alicia68]

Yo-

 

I think that we qualify as Experienced Cruisers - and our 3/31/2005 "Lirica" cruise was the best that we have taken since our last Sitmar cruise in 1986 - bar none - (see my review elsewhere in here)-

 

I would really appreciate getting the name of your firm so that I may steer very clear of it - and warn others to do likewise-

 

Mike

I'm sorry about that. I did not make myself clear. What I meant to say was we NEVER put experienced or other wise cruisers on this line without letting them know that there are differences between this cruiseline and the other more popular lines. Everyone has a different idea on what they want their vacation to be, we just like to let them know upfront that they may see differences between MSC and say RCCL. Although I very much enjoyed my Lirica cruise as well it is not the same experience as the other cruises I have taken. Just a different atmosphere. Sorry about the misunderstanding I should have reread what I wrote before hitting the submit button

[darmanad]

Alicia, just how would you characterize the differences between MSC and other mass market lines? What constitutes "european flavor"?

[caviargal]

Alicia, there are a few lines I do not care for personally but if I have a client that seems suited to them, I recommend that line.

 

I think cruising is a matter of personal taste. I myself would never take a personal cruise on Carnival, but I will make that recommendation to the client that wants what they have to offer. If is is an experienced cruiser who has, for example, enjoyed Celebrity in the past, I will contrast the experience for them. I hope this is what you mean but it did not sound that way.

 

Sounds like you scare off some folks that might indeed enjoy MSC. I am a TA on and off for 32 years now) and an experienced cruiser and I think it is the DIFFERENCES that make a ship special, not the same old, same old.

 

I really look forward to experiencing MSC for myself.

 

CG

[alicia68]

Alicia, there are a few lines I do not care for personally but if I have a client that seems suited to them, I recommend that line.

 

I think cruising is a matter of personal taste. I myself would never take a personal cruise on Carnival, but I will make that recommendation to the client that wants what they have to offer. If is is an experienced cruiser who has, for example, enjoyed Celebrity in the past, I will contrast the experience for them. I hope this is what you mean but it did not sound that way.

 

Sounds like you scare off some folks that might indeed enjoy MSC. I am a TA on and off for 32 years now) and an experienced cruiser and I think it is the DIFFERENCES that make a ship special, not the same old, same old.

 

I really look forward to experiencing MSC for myself.

 

CG

Yes contrasting the experience would be a better way to phrase it. I have some clients, very few I might add that I know would not like the MSC line at all. These are the ones that I hesitate to put on this particular line. There has been some that have been adamant due to the very attractive pricing that MSC offers and after explaining differences to them still want this cruise. Some clients have come back very disappointed in their cruise while others have not. It all depends on the individual client. You don't put clients on cruises that don't fit. This is why they use a travel agent in the first place. I have clients that are very laid back and really enjoy the european flare and don't really want the crew to be falling over them all the time. They like the differences in food, entertainment activities and such this line provides. But I also have clients that get upset when they can't get their favourite whatever type of tea/coffee/food etc that they can get at home or on other cruiselines. They also don't like when there are language barriers with staff. These type of customers are the ones I know would not be able to appreciate this cruiseline. If you call this scaring off customers then yes I am guilty of it but I will still do it this way.

[LuvBNatC]

I've read most of this thread, and I must agree with the original review. I was on Lirica in April in the Western Caribbean (I've also done NCL, RCCL, HAL, and Carnival) and I would sum it up as "service with an attitude." Although the ship was beautiful and I was fully aware of the differences, I would be reluctant to sail MSC again.

 

There were many service issues, large and small, in 11 days. Just to give a few examples, I was a dismayed by all the muttering and slamming coming from behind the bar after I sent back a vodka martini the color of ginger ale. I quickly learned that as long as I kept smiling and took whatever they dished out, the crew was fine. But object to a yellow martini--and watch out!

 

The friendliest crew member I met was a Romanian waitress named Aida who spoke excellent English. She even told me how she handles different nationalities. She knew that Americans expect to be asked if they want another drink as their empty glasses are cleared (something Italian waitresses didn't do. I'm sorry, but poor English is no excuse).

 

Bottom line on the service on that ship, you had to be very proactive to get any, and then be prepared for the attitude.

 

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how pasta is served. They don't consider it an entree. At the first dinner, I ordered a salad and pasta as my meal. I got my pasta while the rest of the table had their salad, and my salad when their entrees were served. I asked the waiter why my meal wasn't in sync and he said, "That's the Italian way." I happen to be half Italian, spent a lot of time growing up with my 100% Italian grandparents, and that was news to me.

 

However, other waiters served the salad first and the pasta as the entree. Obviously, some waiters knew--and cared--how Americans expect to be served and responded accordingly--and appropriately.

 

I accept mistakes and a certain level of sloppiness as aimiably as the next girl, but I don't subscribe to this "When in Rome. . ." attitude that Americans should assume downright bad service is great when another culture is delivering it.

 

In fact, after seeing on Lirica what passes for "European flair" and is acceptable by European standards, I realized that American expectations must have set the gold standard. I now give a LOT more credit to the so-called "mass market" cruise lines that cater to the American market with international crews and provide the service that experienced cruisers have come to expect.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that MSC crews consciously behave in a disrespectful and inconsistent manner toward Americans (with the tacit blessing of Italian management) just to see how far they can push us, and as a general slap in the face for all the havoc our government has wreaked on the world lately. I can picture them laughing about it among themselves later and swapping, "Can you top what I did to that stupid American?" stories.

 

I know I'm sounding like an ugly American, but I think some of the apologists for MSC have swung the pendulum too far the other way.

[scamper]

Well, I've read this thread fairly thoroughly and I can tell you that if I had had the kind of cruise that Darmanad had had on ANY line, I would have certainly posted my dissatisfaction on these boards and not cared one whit what anyone said. I have read responses to his, and other's, posts that border or, or perhaps are, downright rude. Perhaps that is the all-heralded "European style" when responding to people's opinions that they have every right to share. But if that attitude is the "European style" of cruising as one might expect on MSC then those members here who think MSC is the last word in travel can certainly have it all to themselves.

 

Yesterday, I picked up the latest copy of Cruise Digest magazine. Their article had glowing comments about MSC and its product. It did not, however, state or imply that MSC provided a "budget" product, nor much in the way of "European style." (As a sidebar, now that I think of it, one cruiseline that boasts of its exemplary service proudly states that its service staff is European trained. I can't imagine anyone on this line, Seabourn, telling a passenger to go f*** himself.)

 

Alicia pointed out the importance of a good travel agent as being thoroughly knowledgable of the cruise products in the world. For that she deserves a pat on the back...and I'll buy her a drink on that one, too. She is very obviously good at what she does. Whether you agree with her comments or not, she is sincerely looking out for the best interests of her customers. She, or any other agent, who knows her (their) clients and what they like would be flat out stupid to put customers who prefer an upscale product on a budget line, regardless of how euphorically members might feel toward the line. Further, it is absolutely correct that an agent should tell SOME clients "look, there is an excellent chance that your MSC experience is going to be radically different then what you may have had on other lines which cater to the American clientele," and then outline to some degree what that client could expect. It is then up to the individual to make their own decision. If, after that, the client chooses MSC and has the time of their lives, there's a feather in the TA's cap. Conversely, if the client has a rotten time then the agent should have the peace of mind to know that they did everything they could to provide the customer with the information to make their own choice.

 

Bottom line, however, is this: cruiselines who sail round trip from American ports and advertise to Americans should not be the least surprised to be expected by those Americans to provide an American-style product. If they don't, then they ought to provide a clear understanding of the type of product they provide. While it is true that there is a substantial number of foreign born people living in the USA, the majority are native born and have certain similar expectations when it comes to a cruise.

 

You can't please everyone. It astonishes me to know that there are people who have sailed with my favorite line, Seabourn, that have been dissatisfied with their experience. Personally, I would never berate that individual for anything they said about their cruise. The gracious way to respond to that individual might be, "I'm sorry you had such a difficult time on your trip. Although I personally have not experienced anything less than a marvelous time on Seabourn, you now have valuable knowledge at hand when choosing your next cruise."

[scamper]

I've read most of this thread, and I must agree with the original review. I was on Lirica in April in the Western Caribbean (I've also done NCL, RCCL, HAL, and Carnival) and I would sum it up as "service with an attitude." Although the ship was beautiful and I was fully aware of the differences, I would be reluctant to sail MSC again.

 

There were many service issues, large and small, in 11 days. Just to give a few examples, I was a dismayed by all the muttering and slamming coming from behind the bar after I sent back a vodka martini the color of ginger ale. I quickly learned that as long as I kept smiling and took whatever they dished out, the crew was fine. But object to a yellow martini--and watch out!

 

The friendliest crew member I met was a Romanian waitress named Aida who spoke excellent English. She even told me how she handles different nationalities. She knew that Americans expect to be asked if they want another drink as their empty glasses are cleared (something Italian waitresses didn't do. I'm sorry, but poor English is no excuse).

 

Bottom line on the service on that ship, you had to be very proactive to get any, and then be prepared for the attitude.

 

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how pasta is served. They don't consider it an entree. At the first dinner, I ordered a salad and pasta as my meal. I got my pasta while the rest of the table had their salad, and my salad when their entrees were served. I asked the waiter why my meal wasn't in sync and he said, "That's the Italian way." I happen to be half Italian, spent a lot of time growing up with my 100% Italian grandparents, and that was news to me.

 

However, other waiters served the salad first and the pasta as the entree. Obviously, some waiters knew--and cared--how Americans expect to be served and responded accordingly--and appropriately.

 

I accept mistakes and a certain level of sloppiness as aimiably as the next girl, but I don't subscribe to this "When in Rome. . ." attitude that Americans should assume downright bad service is great when another culture is delivering it.

 

In fact, after seeing on Lirica what passes for "European flair" and is acceptable by European standards, I realized that American expectations must have set the gold standard. I now give a LOT more credit to the so-called "mass market" cruise lines that cater to the American market with international crews and provide the service that experienced cruisers have come to expect.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that MSC crews consciously behave in a disrespectful and inconsistent manner toward Americans (with the tacit blessing of Italian management) just to see how far they can push us, and as a general slap in the face for all the havoc our government has wreaked on the world lately. I can picture them laughing about it among themselves later and swapping, "Can you top what I did to that stupid American?" stories.

 

I know I'm sounding like an ugly American, but I think some of the apologists for MSC have swung the pendulum too far the other way.

 

Brava! Well written!

[alicia68]

Scamper,

 

Very well said! Vacations, cruise or otherwise are very personal choices and while some make like their choice others may not. To each their own. And by the way I'll take a coconut rum and orange juice please! lol