Antigua 6 are back....

[Kurbanfan]

I am sure you are right. Carnival in three weeks time decided to pull a ship out of Antigua because a few idiots got arrested for hitting cops.

Yeah-yeah......That would be the reason....:rolleyes:

 

Right? I never said they pulled out just because of the Antigua 6.....

[Nunu]

I must comment!!

 

I find it a show of ignorance that so many choose to resort to labeling the Antigua Six as less than desirable human beings. Unless you know them and were there you have no right to be so judgmental of them personally.

 

I find it hard to believe that some cannot imagine that they perhaps found themselves in a somewhat scary position in an unknown territory, defending themselves. Assuming quilt because they plea bargained doesn't mean that they really did something wrong, defending yourself in a situation that they felt was maybe unsafe, isn't a crime. Unfortunately, they weren't able to prove it, it was one sided, and when you think there isn't a chance and the only opportunity you have to get the heck out of there is to plea, you do.

 

I cannot imagine being with my family or friends and being in the same situation and not fighting out of fear. Yes, the didn't pay the fare and I bet they wish they did, but when it was disputed they thought they were going to the police at the pier. The driver makes a call and suddenly takes them elsewhere. I'd be concerned, wouldn't you?

 

I have no personal connection with the Antigua Six, my thoughts are just from what I read. This will follow them and effect their lives long after we stop hearing about it.

 

Flame away!!!!!!

 

Welcome to messageboarding.

[halos]

I'm not. Antigua is a beautiful island and the people are wonderful. We were treaded with diginty and respect everywhere we went on the island. Carnival cancelling this port of call on Victory will cost the island economy over $300,000 for everyday the ship doesn't go there. So do the math. That is $15,600,000 dollars a year because of these spoiled American BRATS. Two years in a foreign jail would have done them good!

 

CCL didn't pull out because of the Ny tourists...no matter what some would like you to believe.

I feel sorry for the people of Antigua that counted on those cruise passenger dollars as well. :( But CCL, like all bsuinesses only makes decisions as big as this when there is a lot of money at stake/involved.

You cannot fault any business for cutting corners where they can and unfortunately the way things are right now, I wager there is cost cutting, reorganizing and huge changes going on everywhere that affects more people than we can even imagine.

[DocJohnB]

I must comment!!

 

I find it a show of ignorance that so many choose to resort to labeling the Antigua Six as less than desirable human beings. Unless you know them and were there you have no right to be so judgmental of them personally.

 

I find it hard to believe that some cannot imagine that they perhaps found themselves in a somewhat scary position in an unknown territory, defending themselves. Assuming quilt because they plea bargained doesn't mean that they really did something wrong, defending yourself in a situation that they felt was maybe unsafe, isn't a crime. Unfortunately, they weren't able to prove it, it was one sided, and when you think there isn't a chance and the only opportunity you have to get the heck out of there is to plea, you do.

 

I cannot imagine being with my family or friends and being in the same situation and not fighting out of fear. Yes, the didn't pay the fare and I bet they wish they did, but when it was disputed they thought they were going to the police at the pier. The driver makes a call and suddenly takes them elsewhere. I'd be concerned, wouldn't you?

 

I have no personal connection with the Antigua Six, my thoughts are just from what I read. This will follow them and effect their lives long after we stop hearing about it.

 

Flame away!!!!!!

 

If labeling them thugs equates to "less than desirable human beings", so be it. Pray tell, what is desirable about mixing it up with law enforcement officers anywhere.

 

I absolutely refuse to believe that collectively these people "found themselves in a somewhat scary position in an unknown territory, defending themselves". Ridiculous. There were 11 of them, 5 apparently did not find it "scary" enough to get out and start acting like common thugs, in fact tried to conciliate. Those 5 were allowed to leave the police station and make there way back to the ship.

 

Assuming quilt because they plea bargained doesn't mean that they really did something wrong, defending yourself in a situation that they felt was maybe unsafe, isn't a crime. Unfortunately, they weren't able to prove it, it was one sided, and when you think there isn't a chance and the only opportunity you have to get the heck out of there is to plea, you do.

Perhaps in your world this is fact. Not in mine. There is no doubt in my mind that with the evidence presented against them in court they were headed for guilty charges and that may or may not have led to harsher sentences..

 

The driver makes a call and suddenly takes them elsewhere. I'd be concerned, wouldn't you?

Absolutely, but I would be looking for law enforcement. And darned if that isn't exactly where this driver took them.

 

This will follow them and effect their lives long after we stop hearing about it.

One could only hope so. Although, I don't think that will be the case with these "victims of a cruel and unfeeling justice system". (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

[Kurbanfan]

I must comment!!

 

I find it a show of ignorance that so many choose to resort to labeling the Antigua Six as less than desirable human beings. Unless you know them and were there you have no right to be so judgmental of them personally.

 

I find it hard to believe that some cannot imagine that they perhaps found themselves in a somewhat scary position in an unknown territory, defending themselves. Assuming quilt because they plea bargained doesn't mean that they really did something wrong, defending yourself in a situation that they felt was maybe unsafe, isn't a crime. Unfortunately, they weren't able to prove it, it was one sided, and when you think there isn't a chance and the only opportunity you have to get the heck out of there is to plea, you do.

 

I cannot imagine being with my family or friends and being in the same situation and not fighting out of fear. Yes, the didn't pay the fare and I bet they wish they did, but when it was disputed they thought they were going to the police at the pier. The driver makes a call and suddenly takes them elsewhere. I'd be concerned, wouldn't you?

 

I have no personal connection with the Antigua Six, my thoughts are just from what I read. This will follow them and effect their lives long after we stop hearing about it.

 

Flame away!!!!!!

 

No flames here! But I would have to say "ignorance" is putting it mildly...........

[mr middy]

Um, havent we already had about half a dozen threads on this topic, each one pretty much containing the same/very similar comments?

[DocJohnB]

Yeah,

 

And this one almost died.:p

[trock]

Trock, thanks for posting the info, since it is a current subject of interest to some. We all may have different opinions and thats what is so nice about this country, we're allow to have different opinions.

Where have you been? I haven't seen a post by you lately???:confused:

Anyway fwiw I believe them too......... but I'm not debating it anymore:rolleyes:'

Carole

 

Hi Carole!

 

I think there are two sides to everystory and I believe calling these people 'thugs' based on the assumptions made and details reported is wrong.

 

I would give them the benefit of the doubt as a fellow citizen- just like I would hope it were given to me if I found myself is some of mess outside the states.

 

Antigua... well ...their reputation precedes itself...

 

Should they have paid? In hindsite of course.. Did they think it would escalate to the point it did? doubtful...

 

:)

[trock]

The decision to remove Antigua had nothing to do with this incident but apparently someone has doubts...

 

http://www.eturbonews.com/12023/antigua-tourism-minister-talk-carnival-after-vessel-pullout

 

 

http://www.sunstkittsonline.com/news/regional/28872-minister-says-pullout-could-cost-antigua-dearly.html

[cruiser1465]

Coming soon... Antiqua 6 have a baby, Antiqua 6 in a sordid afair with john gosling, Antiqua 6 win noble peace prize.

 

shame on you.:(

[Nunu]

shame on you.:(

 

:rolleyes:

[DocJohnB]

[Mikel1733]

Hi Carole!

 

I think there are two sides to everystory and I believe calling these people 'thugs' based on the assumptions made and details reported is wrong.

 

I would give them the benefit of the doubt as a fellow citizen- just like I would hope it were given to me if I found myself is some of mess outside the states.

 

Antigua... well ...their reputation precedes itself...

 

Should they have paid? In hindsite of course.. Did they think it would escalate to the point it did? doubtful...

 

:)

 

I agree.........I still think the truth of the matter lies in the middle of the two sides stories.

[imsulin]

Hi Carole!

 

I think there are two sides to everystory and I believe calling these people 'thugs' based on the assumptions made and details reported is wrong.

 

I would give them the benefit of the doubt as a fellow citizen- just like I would hope it were given to me if I found myself is some of mess outside the states.

 

Antigua... well ...their reputation precedes itself...

 

Should they have paid? In hindsite of course.. Did they think it would escalate to the point it did? doubtful...

 

:)

 

Sorry, trock, but I'm just not understanding your "Antigua - well- their reputation precedes itself" reference. I've gone to Antigua many times since the late 1980's, and think it is a very lovely and very historical island. Antigua had well-established tourism long before large cruise ships began stopping there. Sandals Antigua is one of the more expensive Sandals Resorts, with its rondels. Many beautiful beaches, and some pricey real estate. Antigua, now self-governing - has a two-century old British background. It is a stable island. I DO agree with you about the "thug" reference, though. I don't think they were thugs...just inexperienced and travel ignorant young adults who thought that behavior that would excuse them in the US, definitely did not excuse them outside the US. They had to pay for it. Hopefully, it's a lesson learned.

[halos]

Hi Carole!

 

 

 

Antigua... well ...their reputation precedes itself...

 

:)

 

 

I'd like you to think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you be one of the first people to become offended when someone says, "NY...well, it's reputation precedes itself." ??

C'mom Trock...that statement is hardly fair, especially considering your wonderful city has a reputation a bit worse and more well known than Antigua.

 

Or..is it OK to have a double standard??? :confused:

[cod]

I agree...plenty of blame to go around. BUT, my gosh, this is the result of a dispute over FIFTY BUCKS???.....DIVIDED BY SIX???

 

I hope I can remember their names..I want none of them as my lawyer, chef, or especially, my nurse. Yikes, what a thought.

[imsulin]

I'd like you to think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you be one of the first people to become offended when someone says, "NY...well, it's reputation precedes itself." ??

C'mom Trock...that statement is hardly fair, especially considering your wonderful city has a reputation a bit worse and more well known than Antigua.

 

Or..is it OK to have a double standard??? :confused:

 

AMEN! Well said, halos!

[halos]

AMEN! Well said, halos!

 

Also...it is a double standard in that it seems to offend people that the tourists were called 'thugs' by a few posters...but it seems OK to demonize an entire country, with underlying tones that everyone there is a thug..."It's reputation precedes itself."

Bottom line is that it's wrong to be offended by the use of the word 'thug' IF you don't basically imply it someplace else yourself.

[imsulin]

Also...it is a double standard in that it seems to offend people that the tourists were called 'thugs' by a few posters...but it seems OK to demonize an entire country, with underlying tones that everyone there is a thug..."It's reputation precedes itself."

Bottom line is that it's wrong to be offended by the use of the word 'thug' IF you don't basically imply it someplace else yourself.

 

To my recollection, only one poster referred to the tourists as "thugs". Which they weren't...just young and ignorant about travel outside the US, and they got themselves into big trouble. I have a problem with "Antigua - its reputation precedes itself". IMO, this statement was made by someone who hasn't been there, but only follows the news of the Antigua Six/Five. BTW - the "thug" poster hasn't been on this thread for awhile.

[trock]

I agree.........I still think the truth of the matter lies in the middle of the two sides stories.

 

There is always Three sides... Theirs, Antiqua's and the truth

 

Sorry, trock, but I'm just not understanding your "Antigua - well- their reputation precedes itself" reference. I've gone to Antigua many times since the late 1980's, and think it is a very lovely and very historical island. Antigua had well-established tourism long before large cruise ships began stopping there. Sandals Antigua is one of the more expensive Sandals Resorts, with its rondels. Many beautiful beaches, and some pricey real estate. Antigua, now self-governing - has a two-century old British background. It is a stable island. I DO agree with you about the "thug" reference, though. I don't think they were thugs...just inexperienced and travel ignorant young adults who thought that behavior that would excuse them in the US, definitely did not excuse them outside the US. They had to pay for it. Hopefully, it's a lesson learned.

 

Yes indeed it's a beautiful... island.. Been there myself 3 times- including one land vacation.. about 20 yrs ago

The experiences I had with the taxi drivers, merchants.. was pretty exhausting... to say the least.. Everyone judges based on their own experience.. Forgive my statement, would have been better said, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE and ignoring the reputation thing..

 

I'd like you to think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you be one of the first people to become offended when someone says, "NY...well, it's reputation precedes itself." ??

C'mom Trock...that statement is hardly fair, especially considering your wonderful city has a reputation a bit worse and more well known than Antigua.

 

Or..is it OK to have a double standard??? :confused:

 

Yes and No.. New York is made up of many many cultures and for the most part.. the good people outweigh the bad... The Taxi cab drivers are almost comparable to Antiqua..... My statement was not meant as broad stroke of the residents, forgive me.. as I said above more to do with cab drivers and merchants..

 

I think we are all guilty of double standards, stereotypes et al..;)

[halos]

Yes and No.. New York is made up of many many cultures and for the most part.. the good people outweigh the bad... The Taxi cab drivers are almost comparable to Antiqua..... My statement was not meant as broad stroke of the residents, forgive me.. as I said above more to do with cab drivers and merchants..

 

..;)

 

So..as far as 'your experience', the bad people outweigh the good in Antigua? And because they are all 'one culture' they (cab drivers and merchants) all are bad??

In NY only certain cultures are bad??

I don't follow this train of thought obviously....:confused:

 

and no. we don't all have double standards.

[trock]

So..as far as 'your experience', the bad people outweigh the good in Antigua? And because they are all 'one culture' they (cab drivers and merchants) all are bad??

In NY only certain cultures are bad??

I don't follow this train of thought obviously....:confused:

 

 

That is not what I said Halos, perhaps you should re-read it..

You dont need to follow my train of thought, they are mine.. just like yours are yours

[Kurbanfan]

Yes indeed it's a beautiful... island.. Been there myself 3 times- including one land vacation.. about 20 yrs ago

The experiences I had with the taxi drivers, merchants.. was pretty exhausting... to say the least.. Everyone judges based on their own experience.. Forgive my statement, would have been better said, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE and ignoring the reputation thing..

 

 

 

 

You can say based on members experience that you have read on cc......including mine which dittos yours;)

[halos]

That is not what I said Halos, perhaps you should re-read it..

You dont need to follow my train of thought, they are mine.. just like yours are yours

 

 

soooo, it's Ok for someone to make a sweeping comment about NY/NYers...and their reputation if they have a bad experience with a few cab drivers and merchants? Because certainly there are a LOT of people who have had aggravation and bad experiences in NY...likely many more than in Antigua.

:confused:

[DocJohnB]

To my recollection, only one poster referred to the tourists as "thugs". Which they weren't...just young and ignorant about travel outside the US, and they got themselves into big trouble. I have a problem with "Antigua - its reputation precedes itself". IMO, this statement was made by someone who hasn't been there, but only follows the news of the Antigua Six/Five. BTW - the "thug" poster hasn't been on this thread for awhile.

 

Actually, imsulin, there have been more than a few of us refer to them as thugs, myself included. Their actions (to which they plead guilty) are the actions of common thugs.

 

I have visited this thread almost daily. . . . . . but I think you were referring to someone else.