Mont-Royal Park, Oratoire St-Joseph, and Plateau Mont-Royal Itinerary -- Help Please

[MalibuCA]

We will be in Montreal pre-cruise for 4 days the end of September 2010. We want to spend one of our days at the Mont-Royal Park to see the highlights and in the Plateau Mont-Royal area. We are considering a visit to the lookout at the top of Mont-Royal Park and possibly the Oratoire St-Joseph followed by lots of wandering through the Plateau area. As we are trying to accomplish a lot in one day, I need your advice on how best to implement our itinerary.

 

My plan thus far is to take a taxi to the lookout. I will have the taxi wait for us while we "look," and then, the plan is to have the taxi drop us in the Plateau Mont-Royal area (probably at Schwartz's Deli for smoked meat) unless you advise that we should visit the Oratoire St-Joseph before leaving the Park. After leaving the Park, we will spend the rest of our day wandering around the Plateau area.

 

My question pertains to our visit to Mont Royal Park. Should we visit the Oratoire St-Joseph? Is it a "must see?" If yes, is it practical to ask the taxi to drive us there from the lookout and wait while we take a peek inside? How long should we allow for the Oratoire? Is it spectacular inside or is it better viewed from the outside? Keep in mind that we will be visiting other churches as well while in Montreal and only want to go to this location if it's really incredible. If it's not practical to have the taxi wait for us, are there other taxis available in that location, or is it necessary to walk down the hill to grab a taxi in Downtown? I want to maximize our time in the Plateau Mont-Royal area, but I don't want to miss a "must see." Please advise . . . and thank you very much!

 

Shelley:)

[Ephraim]

We will be in Montreal pre-cruise for 4 days the end of September 2010. We want to spend one of our days at the Mont-Royal Park to see the highlights and in the Plateau Mont-Royal area. We are considering a visit to the lookout at the top of Mont-Royal Park and possibly the Oratoire St-Joseph followed by lots of wandering through the Plateau area. As we are trying to accomplish a lot in one day, I need your advice on how best to implement our itinerary.

 

My plan thus far is to take a taxi to the lookout. I will have the taxi wait for us while we "look," and then, the plan is to have the taxi drop us in the Plateau Mont-Royal area (probably at Schwartz's Deli for smoked meat) unless you advise that we should visit the Oratoire St-Joseph before leaving the Park. After leaving the Park, we will spend the rest of our day wandering around the Plateau area.

 

My question pertains to our visit to Mont Royal Park. Should we visit the Oratoire St-Joseph? Is it a "must see?" If yes, is it practical to ask the taxi to drive us there from the lookout and wait while we take a peek inside? How long should we allow for the Oratoire? Is it spectacular inside or is it better viewed from the outside? Keep in mind that we will be visiting other churches as well while in Montreal and only want to go to this location if it's really incredible. If it's not practical to have the taxi wait for us, are there other taxis available in that location, or is it necessary to walk down the hill to grab a taxi in Downtown? I want to maximize our time in the Plateau Mont-Royal area, but I don't want to miss a "must see." Please advise . . . and thank you very much!

 

Shelley:)

 

Which lookout? There are a few... in the park and outside of the park... some are car accessible, others require quite a walk to get there.

 

The Oratory is listed as one of the things to see in Montreal. About 2M people a year go to visit it. I've been there, but it's not really at the top of my list of things to see in Montreal. But let's be realistic about it... how would you feel if you skipped it? You'd have regrets... so spend a bit of time and see it.

 

As for Schwartz's, you better plan quite a bit of time for it. In the summer, especially around lunch time there are long queues.

 

Trying to see the plateau in a day... impossible. It's a rather large neighbourhood. You would need to go down on St-Lawrence and back on St-Denis, go up Mont-Royal and back via Rachel to get a taste of it. Never mind the fact that it's restaurant central in Montreal. I live off of Square St-Louis and Prince Arthur. Then there is Duluth as well.

[MalibuCA]

I need a lookout that is car-accessible. I want the taxi to take us to the south view from the Chateau Terrace, and wait for us while we look at the view. Is that the best viewing spot that is car-accessible?

 

Then, I would have the taxi take us to the Oratory. Does it make sense to have the taxi wait for us while we look inside? Is it an area where we would want to spend more time than just a "peek?" Are there other taxis available there that we could get to take us to the Plateau Mont-Royal area?

 

I don't expect to be able to see all of the Plateau area, but I will follow a walking tour from Frommer's that will at least give me the flavor of the area, and it does take me on all of the streets that you mentioned.

 

Please advise about the lookout at the Chateau and the Oratory -- whether we can hold onto our taxi or can easily get another.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Shelley

[MalibuCA]

Oops -- one more question: How long are the lines at Schwartz's for an early lunch the end of September? Do they shorten when the summer crowd is gone?

 

Thanks again,

 

Shelley

[Ephraim]

They start to shorten in October... they will still be long in September.

 

Depends on the time you get there, really. Some of my guests tell me that they manage to walk in almost immediately if they avoid the normal lunch hours. One guest told me that they gave up after waiting an hour. They also have a take-away counter open next door.

 

We usually buy take-away and take it home. I mean... it's only a 10 minute walk from my place :) Advantage of living in the plateau, I guess. And I'm only 15 minutes from Romado's.... (damn! Now I want take-away!)

[BCHappyGal]

To see St Joseph's Oratory is not a short time period - let the taxi go and get a new one later....The Oratory is huge and takes at least 30 mins but probably more like an hour to walk thru the whole thing.

 

The most beautiful howver is Notra Dame Cathedral in Old Town Montreal ... Now in my books that is definitely a MUST SEE...however I would also do St Joseph's... and would not worry too much about Mount Royal....

 

Allow plenty of time for the Old Town area.....

[The Nice Family]

I don't think you mentionned where you're staying in Montreal? You have 4 days there so, I'm also not sure why you're rushing things - talking about skipping St. Joseph's etc.? We were just in Montreal for 2 nights and 2 days and covered a lot of ground in that time. We stayed in what I consider to be a perfectly situated B&B in the Plateau area, near Sherbrooke Street. Although we didn't do the Oratory (Notre Dame was enough for us) we did do a lot of what you've mentionned - all in a day. Here's what we did....

 

Day 1 - Arrived at the train station, took a 10-minute taxi ride to the B&B, dropped the bags off and went to dinner on Prince Arthur street (after making a quick stop at the local liquor store purchase our BYOB wine). Not spectacular on the food front but, close, full of character and a great way to settle into my favourite Montreal pastime - people-watching. Montrealler's are really so wonderfully fashionable. Even the babies! Men, women, children, they all have such style.

 

Day 2 - Great breakfast at the B&B then a walk over to Lafontaine Park then back along Avenue Mont Royale. Stopped in at quite a few shops and stopped for coffee and a bagel at St. Viateur. Back to Ave. Mont Royale which we followed all the way to the base of the "mountain". An easy 40 minute stroll to the top where we had another coffee at the Chalet and looked out over the City. Back down the hill to Sherbrooke Street, past McGill College campuses. Along Ste. Catherine for a little more shopping then back up to Sherbrooke and over to Laval Avenue (the location of our B&B). We rested up for about half-an-hour then, that night we had a reservation at one of the top-rated and, in my mind deservedly so, restaurants in Montreal - Au Pied de Chochon. It was a 15-minute walk from our B&B. All in all we were out for about 12 hours, from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. We had our 11 year-old daughter with us and, amazingly, she didn't complain about the walking once! It is such a fantastic and compact city, Montreal. Just LOVE it.

 

Day 3

We were due to take the 4:30 train to Quebec City for our cruise departure so, we dropped our bags at the station at about 10:30 then headed out from the station for the easy, 15 minute downhill walk to Vieux Montreal. We enjoyed another great cafe au lait and croissant snack before going on the Notre Dame tour which took about an hour. Another couple of hours wandering the streets and shops in the old city then, back up to the train station.

 

As you can see from this whirlwind tour, you will be amazed at how much ground you can cover and all the things you can see in what is basically 36 hours. If you've got 4 days, slow down. Relax. Montreal is a city for exploring. I'm just like you - I pre-plan most everything but, I do try, once I've arrived, to take the little side street, go off the beaten path, try things that weren't on my list or are unexpected. That's what travelling is all about for my family and I. Enjoy! I envy you. You will have a fantastic time, no matter what you do.

[MalibuCA]

Thank you so much for sharing your itinerary. It sounds absolutely fabulous! I'm glad to hear that you can see so much in such a short time. I'm still hoping the weather will cooperate so that we can spend a day exploring the Laurentians. I also realize that the day we board the ship will definitely impede on our "sightseeing" time, so it's not really a full day -- that's why I plan to visit the Museum of Fine Arts that afternoon, and not much else. Otherwise, I will use my "itinerary" loosely and spend a lot of time "winging it." We, too, want to spend time just people-watching and absorbing the atmosphere.

 

I'm trying to figure out our time in Quebec City now. Did you get directly onto your cruise when you arrived in Quebec City, or did you spend some time there? I would love to hear about what you did there and how you organized your time. Please share!

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Shelley

[The Nice Family]

Hi Shelley. We took the train, as you know, from Montreal to Quebec City. Since it was an evening journey - we splurged on VIA1 (First Class). Magnifique! Great lounge for relaxing pre-boarding. On-board we were served cocktails, nice food with wine, coffee and liqueurs and chocolates all consumed while cosily ensconced in plush seats. Best $150 we ever spent (the difference between the First and regular class fare at the time we purchased)!!!

 

So, we arrived in Quebec City in the night, at about 8:00. It was dark and atmospheric - narrow streets winding their way up and down from the Port and Train Station area up to the Town. A 4 minute taxi ride took us to our B&B. Again, bags dumped, then out the door for a bit of an explore. Luckily, given the alcohol consumed on the train, we were walking not driving! Anyway, we just strolled the cobbles for an hour or so, soaking up the incredible historic atmosphere. I've visited Quebec City before but, many, many years ago and I'd forgotten how well-preserved it truly is.

 

We were leaving the next day at 8:00p.m. however, the ship was in port in the morning. We weren't sure of the procedure so, rather than try to book in right away, we left our bags at the B&B and set out to see things in daylight. It was a very, very cold and windy day but it didn't spoil our enjoyment. It only made my husband observe that we should come back some time in the winter, when we could snuggle up inside some of these lovely bars and restaurants and watch the snow fall outside. Everything is walkable although some streets are quite steep and the cobbles can be difficult if you're not wearing appropriate footwear (which I wasn't - this is QUEBEC after all - I wasn't going to wear dowdy Clarkes, which I do own, it was heels all the way for me - style over comfort - for me it was worth it).

 

There weren't many tourists about at 10:00 and we headed directly for the Lower Town. I don't remember it being so lovely. It is really just shop after shop but, oh, what fantastic shops they are. The architecture alone is worth going in for (at least that's what I kept telling my husband;)). We'd done the church thing in Montreal so, didn't go into any here although if you like that sort of thing, there is no shortage. We just wandered again. Stopped for the occasional crepe or croissant. We saw our ship in Port. We admired some art in galleries then we headed back up to the Upper Town on the funiculer (sp?) just for the experience.Once up top again we went into the Chateau Frontenac Hotel, just to see how the other half lived. What a beautiful, beautiful hotel full of gleaming brass, mellow marble, polished patrons and spiffy staff.

 

By now (about 2:00) things were in full swing with the horse-drawn caleches vying for road space with the tour busses. We nipped down a side street and across the back side of what, I believe, was a nunnery. Very easy to navigate in this small Old Town so, despite not having a map and going the back routes, we ended up at our B&B again within minutes. We loaded our bags into a taxi and, 10 minutes later were checking in at the Port. A very quick embarkation had us in the cabin by 4:00. We had a snack on board then headed back into the Town for another couple of hours just strolling. We made it to the outer wall but, by that time, I didn't think there was enough time to show my daughter the Plains of Abraham. I just pointed in the general direction and told her, "There's where the French fought the British for control of Canada about 400 years ago - the Brits won, the French have never forgiven nor forgotten. There you go, history condensed."

 

Just like Montreal, really, in the activities department...nothing really major, just a lot of wandering and poking about here and there. We didn't eat anywhere in particular. We didn't do anything in particular. Lovely!

[CelticDuck]

To see St Joseph's Oratory is not a short time period - let the taxi go and get a new one later....The Oratory is huge and takes at least 30 mins but probably more like an hour to walk thru the whole thing.

 

The most beautiful howver is Notra Dame Cathedral in Old Town Montreal ... Now in my books that is definitely a MUST SEE...however I would also do St Joseph's... and would not worry too much about Mount Royal....

 

Allow plenty of time for the Old Town area.....

 

I agree that coming to town and not seeing Old Montreal (and le vieux port) would be a shame. The cathedral is beautiful and should be on your list along with the oratory.

 

Since you have 4 days, you might want to consider public transit. You could get from the oratory to downtown and take the metro (subway) pretty easily. Or, take a bus (# 51) on Queen Mary to the Plateau district. That's not viable from a Mount Royal lookout though as there's no buses unless you walk 10-15 minutes.

 

I'd also suggest a little time downtown on Ste. Catherine street. You could stroll the underground city if the weather doesn't cooperate.

 

Enjoy your stay in Montréal!

[MalibuCA]

Thanks so much to all of you!

 

Shelley

[Earl Rosebery]

I need a lookout that is car-accessible. I want the taxi to take us to the south view from the Chateau Terrace, and wait for us while we look at the view. Is that the best viewing spot that is car-accessible?

 

Then, I would have the taxi take us to the Oratory. Does it make sense to have the taxi wait for us while we look inside? Is it an area where we would want to spend more time than just a "peek?" Are there other taxis available there that we could get to take us to the Plateau Mont-Royal area?

 

I don't expect to be able to see all of the Plateau area, but I will follow a walking tour from Frommer's that will at least give me the flavor of the area, and it does take me on all of the streets that you mentioned.

 

Please advise about the lookout at the Chateau and the Oratory -- whether we can hold onto our taxi or can easily get another.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Shelley

 

I was raised in Montreal and lived there 30 years. Never once went to St. Joseph's Oratory. There are better churches in the old city . Notre Dame Cathedral and the sailor's church

 

If memory serves, you can't get a taxi to the lookout on Mont Royal. You will probably have to walk 15 mins or so in each direction. There is a similar view from the lookout on Summit Circle on Westmount mountain that is certainly accessable by car.

[Can'tstopcruising]

If you do go to St. Joseph's Oratory, walk around the corner to Le Duc du Lorraine, arguably the BEST French bakery/cafe anywhere. Try an almond croissant. It's for fainting!

 

If you are still hungry, cross Queen Mary, take a bus in that direction as far as Decarie and go to Snowdon Del. One of the best Delis in the city. (Read "Save the Deli" by David Sax)

 

If the weather is favourable, a walk around Mount Royal is a wonderful way to spend a few hours. You can take a bus or taxi up to Beaver Lake, walk around the lake, up to the look-out, then take a road that goes around the mountain. It will take a couple of hours, but it is like a walk in the country and will be especially good after eating so many goodies!

 

Better still. Go to Snowdon Del for lunch (Smoked meat, fries and cherry coke), walk to Queen Mary and take a bus to the shrine (oratory), Go to Beaver Lake. Walk to your heart's content. Come back down the mountain and go to the Duc du Lorraine. By then you will be ready for a snack!!!

 

Have fun!

[MalibuCA]

Snowdon Deli, not Schwartz's?! :eek: Tell me about it. I've only read about Schwartz's. Please enlighten me.

 

Thanks,

Shelley

[Can'tstopcruising]

Snowdon Deli, not Schwartz's?! :eek: Tell me about it. I've only read about Schwartz's. Please enlighten me.

 

Thanks,

Shelley

 

I don't think you would be disappointed with either, but Snowdon Del is closer to the places you want to visit.

[Ephraim]

If you do go to St. Joseph's Oratory' date=' walk around the corner to Le Duc du Lorraine, arguably the BEST French bakery/cafe anywhere. Try an almond croissant. It's for fainting!

 

If you are still hungry, cross Queen Mary, take a bus in that direction as far as Decarie and go to Snowdon Del. One of the best Delis in the city. (Read "Save the Deli" by David Sax)

 

If the weather is favourable, a walk around Mount Royal is a wonderful way to spend a few hours. You can take a bus or taxi up to Beaver Lake, walk around the lake, up to the look-out, then take a road that goes around the mountain. It will take a couple of hours, but it is like a walk in the country and will be especially good after eating so many goodies!

 

Better still. Go to Snowdon Del for lunch (Smoked meat, fries and cherry coke), walk to Queen Mary and take a bus to the shrine (oratory), Go to Beaver Lake. Walk to your heart's content. Come back down the mountain and go to the Duc du Lorraine. By then you will be ready for a snack!!!

 

Have fun![/quote']

 

Snowdon deli? Gee, I haven't been there in over fifteen years. Location? Ambiance? Authenticity? I must admit that they have a bigger menu than Schwartz's, but I can think of at least two better delis. Sure, it's convenient if you leave on that side of town... but that's about it.

[Can'tstopcruising]

Snowdon deli? Gee, I haven't been there in over fifteen years. Location? Ambiance? Authenticity? I must admit that they have a bigger menu than Schwartz's, but I can think of at least two better delis. Sure, it's convenient if you leave on that side of town... but that's about it.

 

I didn't expect you to be a fan, but neither did I expect you to feel so negatively about it.

 

Personally, I think their smoked meat is excellent. And it's easier to get it lean there than at Schwartz.

 

Ambiance? What deli has ambiance other than deli-ambiance????

 

Location? Remember he wants to go to St. Joseph's Oratory and to Beaver Lake and the Lookout.

 

Just trying to be helpful!

[Ephraim]

I didn't expect you to be a fan' date=' but neither did I expect you to feel so negatively about it.

 

Personally, I think their smoked meat is excellent. And it's easier to get it lean there than at Schwartz.

 

Ambiance? What deli has ambiance other than deli-ambiance????

 

Location? Remember he wants to go to St. Joseph's Oratory and to Beaver Lake and the Lookout.

 

Just trying to be helpful![/quote']

 

Honestly, the smoked meat at both places is very different. You are correct, you can order it both lean and thin at Snowdon. It's very different than Schwartz's where you need to order it medium and it's thickly sliced, it's cooked longer and therefore more tender and can't be sliced thin.

 

As for proximity... my guess is that they are equidistant. Snowdon deli is closer to St. Joseph's Oratory, but Schwartz's is down Camillien Houde, down parc and over on Duluth and likely closer to the lookouts.

 

But, here's the real question... do you want to someone to go home with regrets and say that they went to the second fiddle or to have the real experience, live with no regrets? Even if they like or or don't like it.... at least it's the full experience instead of ersatz. It's one thing to be from Montreal and prefer Snowdon Deli, Famous Deli Boys, Abie's, Lester's or even Pete's but it's entirely another when you are a visitor and you want to try it just once and leave with the experience.

 

It's like going to Florence and only seeing the fake David statue (in Piazza Vecchio) because it's cheaper and saves more time than going to the Accademia to see the original.

 

A bagel at Tim's isn't a Fairmount or a St. Viateur and a smoked meat sandwich at Snowdon Deli isn't a Schwartz's. We aren't talking personal preferences here, we are talking about authenticity and a once in a lifetime experience. I would rather a tourist get to try the real thing and get the real experience. (And notice that I haven't said which smoked meat I prefer, because it's just not relevant.)

 

And from what I am told, they have made changes at Schwartz's, including frosting the glass so you can't see them cutting it, which was part of the experience... and frankly, I think it's a shame to change such traditions. (I've also been told that the charcoal grill is gone, which means a lot less sales of the combo.)