Cruise fare / Gratuities for Infants/Toddlers

[Julienatul]

On our December cruise Carnival did not include automatic gratuities for our son (age 1). We just gave extra to the waitstaff, stewards for him but as far as I know they do not include gratuities for anyone under age two although I agree they deserve it.

[Julienatul]

I just talked to someone who just got back from a Costa cruise with 3 kids aged 6, 4 and 9mo and they loved it!! They are seasoned cruisers usually going on Carnival or RCCl. They said the 5 of them saild for $1200 total for the fare since the kids sailed free. The older kids loved the kids club, dinner was a different theme each night..italian..toga etc., deck party in the evening was nice, food was great. Oldest daughter got a very nice backpack, mp3 holder, pencil case from the kids club. They said they would definitely sail Costa again.

[RoofingPrincess]

Wow! It's been close to 5 years now since the tip calculator was hosted on AOL! :) Sadly, AOL did away with their hosted websites, so even though that old site used to redirect to the current site, even that no longer works.

As you note, at the time the tip calculator was written, several cruise lines had a policy that called for reduced tips for certain children under certain circumstances. As far as I know, with the NCL "under 3" policy being the only exception, no major cruise line currently recommends a reduced tip for children. I've since adjusted the calculator to always default to "full tips" for both Adults and Children, but for now at least, I've left in the check-box and background processing, just in case anyone really wants to use it.

It may very well be removed in a future version of the calculator.

Theron

Theron, you're famous! Your tip calculator is mentioned on page 15 of the May/June 2010 edition of "AARP The Magazine"!

[TPKeller]

Theron, you're famous! Your tip calculator is mentioned on page 15 of the May/June 2010 edition of "AARP The Magazine"!

:D Just noticed you posted this a couple times... guess you really wanted me to see it! Thanks!

 

Theron

[colgal77]

Interesting and heated topic I thought I would share my 2 cents... We will be sailing on HAL in 2 weeks with our 6 month old daughter. She had to pay 3rd fare - fine. She will not be eating any of HALs food and in fact, HAL sent us a price list of baby items, baby food was an additional $1 per jar (lots of profit there - I guess that is there way of making up alcohol profits from a baby, just jack the prices of baby items). Oh did I mention that diapers are $1 a diaper and considering we are on a 10 day, we would likely need 70-100 diapers - we opted to bring our own for 20% of that price.

 

We are going to see as the trip goes on what we should tip/if any for our daugther. I am sure we will select a few people who provided excpetional service.

 

With that said - a gratutiy is money given to someone who has provided excpetional service. I think it is horrible that tips are expected. If you dont get excpetional service, why do you have to tip? Now, I am sure some people might say that the workers are counting on that for their families or to subsidize their wages.... I am a guest in their place of work and am not responsible to pay or subsidize their wage... they will get tips according to what I feel is appropriate from the service I recieved.

[TPKeller]

With that said - a gratutiy is money given to someone who has provided excpetional service. I think it is horrible that tips are expected. If you dont get excpetional service, why do you have to tip? Now, I am sure some people might say that the workers are counting on that for their families or to subsidize their wages.... I am a guest in their place of work and am not responsible to pay or subsidize their wage... they will get tips according to what I feel is appropriate from the service I recieved.

Unfortunately, as much as you may not like it, your statements here are simply not true.

 

Despite the "hijacking" of the words "tip" and "gratuity", these funds are indeed virtually all of these employees' salary or wage. You might not like paying their wage directly, but that is how it is done.

 

My standard blurb on that fact (meaning that it is not personally directed to you or anyone else in particular) is that the system is what it is. The cruise lines and the employees understand it and have agreed to work within it.

 

If you don't like it, that is certainly your prerogative, but the only decent recourse you should use to express your dislike is to choose a cruise line that compensates their employees in a manner consistent with your preferences. It is grossly unfair to punish employees by denying their very pay as a protest against the compensation system that all involved parties have agreed upon.

 

Theron

[colgal77]

Unfortunately, as much as you may not like it, your statements here are simply not true.

 

Despite the "hijacking" of the words "tip" and "gratuity", these funds are indeed virtually all of these employees' salary or wage. You might not like paying their wage directly, but that is how it is done.

 

My standard blurb on that fact (meaning that it is not personally directed to you or anyone else in particular) is that the system is what it is. The cruise lines and the employees understand it and have agreed to work within it.

 

If you don't like it, that is certainly your prerogative, but the only decent recourse you should use to express your dislike is to choose a cruise line that compensates their employees in a manner consistent with your preferences. It is grossly unfair to punish employees by denying their very pay as a protest against the compensation system that all involved parties have agreed upon.

 

Theron

 

Perhaps, you know their wage then. I have known several people personally that work on the ships... from gift shop employees to the indonesians who work in the dining room on HAL and am aware of their wages... minimal absolutely, but not slave labour (sounds kinda harsh but didnt know how else to say it). Perhaps you also recall when HAL had a no-tipping policy and then moved to tipping optional and then to tiping suggested. And I would say that tips are a good portion of their wage, not virtaully all of it (like any wait staff or entry level jobs in regular restaurants).

 

I will not be punishing thier employees (seems like a harsh judgement you have directed towards me)... I will be on vacation and quite frankly not worrying about anything except a good time. Should people expect tips, they need to provide excpetional service its as simple as that. If anyone is 'punishing' the employees its the cruise line taking advanatge of them and as you stated they have agreed to work under such conditions. I have been fortunate to have hired a foreign worker to be a caretaker for my children in my home - me of all people know what wages mean to them.

[TPKeller]

Perhaps, you know their wage then. I have known several people personally that work on the ships... from gift shop employees to the indonesians who work in the dining room on HAL and am aware of their wages... minimal absolutely, but not slave labour (sounds kinda harsh but didnt know how else to say it). Perhaps you also recall when HAL had a no-tipping policy and then moved to tipping optional and then to tiping suggested. And I would say that tips are a good portion of their wage, not virtaully all of it (like any wait staff or entry level jobs in regular restaurants).

 

I will not be punishing thier employees (seems like a harsh judgement you have directed towards me)... I will be on vacation and quite frankly not worrying about anything except a good time. Should people expect tips, they need to provide excpetional service its as simple as that. If anyone is 'punishing' the employees its the cruise line taking advanatge of them and as you stated they have agreed to work under such conditions. I have been fortunate to have hired a foreign worker to be a caretaker for my children in my home - me of all people know what wages mean to them.

Nope, specifically not directed at you. Please read my post again, I was intentionally quite clear on that.

 

As stated, that was my general blurb, written for folks who take the words "tip" and "gratuity" at their traditional meaning, and not the special meaning that is the case in the cruise industry. It is important for people to know that the consequences of their decision with regard to tipping is quite likely to mean much more than they intend. It's not a question of no bonus reward, but in reality the withholding of their wage. That's all I'm trying to communicate.

 

Theron

[bplazo]

These people are waiting on you all week and deserve something for that service. What the cruisline suggest is the VERY minimum that I would tip for the people waiting on me and my family in the dining venue and the room stweard who comes in and cleans up after my family. Exceptional service would receive extra money.

 

I wish the cruiseline would just call it a service fee that is mandatory and that way a crew member would not get stiffed by people who are receiving this service and does not want to pay for it.

[TPKeller]

I wish the cruiseline would just call it a service fee that is mandatory and that way a crew member would not get stiffed by people who are receiving this service and does not want to pay for it.

It's an on-going debate, that's for sure! :)

 

There are clearly pros and cons. As long as it is labeled "tipping", and left up to the passenger to take an active role, there will be those who choose not to and "stiff". But... and this is significant... I also believe that there are many who "tip" more than the recommended amounts, and I suspect that "more" is way more than enough to make up for the few who "stiff".

 

If you take that away and label it a service charge, you will probably get fewer (maybe even zero) "stiffers" but you will also probably get a lot fewer who give over that service charge amount.

 

Here is the bottom line, and it really takes away all debate on the issue: These workers are not slaves, they are not openly compelled to be working for the cruise line. If they were not satisfied with their compensation system, they would go somewhere else. If it works for them, it should work for us.

 

Theron

[quincytoo]

These people are waiting on you all week and deserve something for that service. What the cruisline suggest is the VERY minimum that I would tip for the people waiting on me and my family in the dining venue and the room stweard who comes in and cleans up after my family. Exceptional service would receive extra money.

 

I wish the cruiseline would just call it a service fee that is mandatory and that way a crew member would not get stiffed by people who are receiving this service and does not want to pay for it.

I so agree with you and to hear people say they are going on a cruise and taking off the auto charge makes me sick. These people are only concerned about having a good time and want good service that they have no intent of paying for.:mad:

 

 

We think of the auto tip as part of the cruise fee and leave it on and then tip over and beyond for exceptional service.

[sas80]

I so agree with you and to hear people say they are going on a cruise and taking off the auto charge makes me sick. These people are only concerned about having a good time and want good service that they have no intent of paying for.:mad:

 

 

We think of the auto tip as part of the cruise fee and leave it on and then tip over and beyond for exceptional service.

 

What a completely ridiculous and judgmental statement! You should be ashamed of yourself for making a statement that lumps "everyone" that "does that" into the same "category". How dare you.

[sas80]

These people are waiting on you all week and deserve something for that service. What the cruisline suggest is the VERY minimum that I would tip for the people waiting on me and my family in the dining venue and the room stweard who comes in and cleans up after my family. Exceptional service would receive extra money.

 

I wish the cruiseline would just call it a service fee that is mandatory and that way a crew member would not get stiffed by people who are receiving this service and does not want to pay for it.

 

So, even if you had received the type of service that made you actually think "this person is not delivering the absolute minimum standard service" you would tip the suggested amounts anyways?

 

I'm just curious.

 

Everyone has their own judgment about what minimum standard service "is". This judgment is based on our upbringing and life situation(s) Someone who grew up a bit more affluent is going to have a different level of expectations then someone who grew up in a factory type working class family. (not directed at you) Cruising with kids, or without, it's not fair for anyone to lay their judgments about tipping on someone else as if they know best.

 

But the original question still stands. Would you still tip the minimum amount even if your felt like the service you received from person X was below your ideal of minimum standard?

 

 

(again, totally not directed to you) people run all over these boards being so self righteous about their tipping. While the idea of "minimum standard" is far too abstract to quantify in a public forum like this, it is interesting to wonder what these seemingly self righteous tippers would do if they ever encountered a situation where they felt like they received sub standard service.

[tankersbabe]

"This judgment is based on our upbringing and life situation(s) Someone who grew up a bit more affluent is going to have a different level of expectations then someone who grew up in a factory type working class family. (not directed at you) Cruising with kids, or without, it's not fair for anyone to lay their judgments about tipping on someone else as if they know best."

 

How judgemental of you...breaking it down to a social/economic class of expectations. You just did the same thing that you accused someone else of doing.

 

Puhlease....

 

Tip what you want...do what you want...remember...it is YOUR vacation.

[gerif]

But the original question still stands. Would you still tip the minimum amount even if your felt like the service you received from person X was below your ideal of minimum standard?

 

If I were receiving service that I considered substandard, a complaint would be lodged immediately as has been done a few times in the past until service was to my liking. At that point, the minimum suggested tip would be given. Most of the time, however, service not only meets my minimum standards but goes above and beyond, and is rewarded appropriately. Have never encountered service so poor as to make me want to remove or lower tips.

 

I, too, wish there were an automatic service charge added that one could add to if desired but not remove.

[sas80]

"This judgment is based on our upbringing and life situation(s) Someone who grew up a bit more affluent is going to have a different level of expectations then someone who grew up in a factory type working class family. (not directed at you) Cruising with kids, or without, it's not fair for anyone to lay their judgments about tipping on someone else as if they know best."

 

How judgemental of you...breaking it down to a social/economic class of expectations. You just did the same thing that you accused someone else of doing.

 

Puhlease....

 

Tip what you want...do what you want...remember...it is YOUR vacation.

 

It's not judgmental to suggest that what has shaped our personal expectations is rooted in, and based on, our social class experiences, our economic brackets and our general life experiences.

 

It's scientific.

[sas80]

If I were receiving service that I considered substandard, a complaint would be lodged immediately as has been done a few times in the past until service was to my liking. At that point, the minimum suggested tip would be given. Most of the time, however, service not only meets my minimum standards but goes above and beyond, and is rewarded appropriately. Have never encountered service so poor as to make me want to remove or lower tips.

 

I, too, wish there were an automatic service charge added that one could add to if desired but not remove.

 

I'm surprised that you would lodge a complaint and tip the minimum amount. Until you pointed it out, I would never have considered actually lodging a complaint.

 

That makes me ponder an interesting connection. Is the whole idea of tipping truly just a passive aggressive way to handle matters of "levels of service"? Interesting......

 

Obviously not a conversation for this forum. Totally OT and not in scope.

 

Happy Sailing :)

[sas80]

If I were receiving service that I considered substandard, a complaint would be lodged immediately as has been done a few times in the past until service was to my liking. At that point, the minimum suggested tip would be given. Most of the time, however, service not only meets my minimum standards but goes above and beyond, and is rewarded appropriately. Have never encountered service so poor as to make me want to remove or lower tips.

 

I, too, wish there were an automatic service charge added that one could add to if desired but not remove.

 

I actually wish they would just do a way with outright tipping as well and just add it as an auto charge. It would make the discussion mute.

 

However, until every cruiseline adopts it as standard it is unlikely to happen. Auto tipping increases the cost of your fare by about $80 per person per week. Imagine a family of 4 (especially when we consider it in the context of tipping for kids) seeing their final bill with an extra $320 on it for cruiseline A that includes tips, and cruiseline B appears less because B doesn't automatically include tips. For a $320 savings the family will most likely go with B.

 

Unless it becomes industry standard I just dont see it happening.

[dalitos]

Auto tipping increases the cost of your fare by about $80 per person per week. Imagine a family of 4 (especially when we consider it in the context of tipping for kids) seeing their final bill with an extra $320 on it for cruiseline A that includes tips, and cruiseline B appears less because B doesn't automatically include tips. For a $320 savings the family will most likely go with B.

 

Unless it becomes industry standard I just dont see it happening.

 

 

This is exactly the point. Cruiselines are not willing to increase their fares to include tipping/service, for fear of reducing their own revenue (people going to other lines). They care so little about their employees that they will not make such a move to protect their employees' wages at their own risk.

Now... regardless of how much or how little we tip, it is NOT our responsability to pay cruise line employees their monthly wages. It is our social responsability to thank for service, be it below average, average, or above average, that is up to each of us. But again, I don't think we should tip since otherwise employees won't make their month.

TPKeller said the system is what it is.. really? Is that enough reason? If cruise lines decided we should tip 50 a day pp, is it OK? When airlines decide to charge us extra for every bag checked in (even though we don't have a choice, since we can't even bring a normal size tube of toothpaste on the plane) is it OK? When the system is not what the majority likes or agrees with, we try to change it. I am not particularly refering to cruise tipping (adult, children, and/or infant), but just in general.

[TPKeller]

This is exactly the point. Cruiselines are not willing to increase their fares to include tipping/service, for fear of reducing their own revenue (people going to other lines). They care so little about their employees that they will not make such a move to protect their employees' wages at their own risk.

 

Now... regardless of how much or how little we tip, it is NOT our responsability to pay cruise line employees their monthly wages. It is our social responsability to thank for service, be it below average, average, or above average, that is up to each of us. But again, I don't think we should tip since otherwise employees won't make their month.

TPKeller said the system is what it is.. really? Is that enough reason? If cruise lines decided we should tip 50 a day pp, is it OK? When airlines decide to charge us extra for every bag checked in (even though we don't have a choice, since we can't even bring a normal size tube of toothpaste on the plane) is it OK? When the system is not what the majority likes or agrees with, we try to change it. I am not particularly refering to cruise tipping (adult, children, and/or infant), but just in general.

I disagree with your assertion and your assignment of apathy to management. Cruise line management is quite well aware of the critical role these employees play in overall customer satisfaction. As I stated earlier, I firmly believe that this system works out better on the whole for the tipped employees, even when you factor in the "stiffers".

 

If you cruise on a line that compensates these employees via passenger tips, then yes, it is your responsibility to pay their wages.

 

And, yes. We should tip what is recommended. If we don't like the system as it is, including the recommended tip amount, then we should "vote with our dollars" and choose another cruise line that does business in a manner we can tolerate.

 

When the system is not what the majority likes, then the management will observe their declining market share, and they will change it.

 

Theron

[gerif]

I'm surprised that you would lodge a complaint and tip the minimum amount. Until you pointed it out, I would never have considered actually lodging a complaint. /QUOTE]

 

If a waiter, for instance, is ignoring requests or bringing the wrong items, I will certainly mention it to the headwaiter. If a room steward, for instance, is not cleaning or leaving the extra towels I requested, I will mention it to him/her - if nothing changes, I will contact housekeeping. I hate when people come on this board and complain about these things after the cruise is over - if you've got an issue, address it at the beginning rather than spoil the vacation.

[quincytoo]

What a completely ridiculous and judgmental statement! LOL You do like to throw these words around a lot DON'T YOU?? You should be ashamed of yourself for making a statement that lumps "everyone" that "does that" into the same "category". LOL I am not ashamed at all, it's just how I feel, *I* am entitled to my beliefs. How dare you. ROFL Believe me it was so easy

 

Also I should have stated if I believe that if you don't tip then don't cruise, going on a cruise knowing you are getting good service then taking the auto tip off and not tipping is the reason why cruiselines should make auto tips into a service charge that can not be removed.

 

Cruises are so cheap to begin with and I would rather the CC add another $11 a day for each and every cruiser to cover the auto tip to the total price and be done with these stupid threads. :rolleyes:

[dalitos]

I disagree with your assertion and your assignment of apathy to management. Cruise line management is quite well aware of the critical role these employees play in overall customer satisfaction. As I stated earlier, I firmly believe that this system works out better on the whole for the tipped employees, even when you factor in the "stiffers".

 

I saw your previous message about how it may work out better for the employees when leaving tipping as an extra and not part of the cruise, and it may be true, but I really don't think that's why the cruise line is doing it. Bottom line for them is their own revenue, regardless what managment / customer service may say... it is all PR. The CEO and big stock holders are not making their decisions based on the wellbeing of their employees. Of course I'm not trying to convince you, just my opinion.

 

If you cruise on a line that compensates these employees via passenger tips, then yes, it is your responsibility to pay their wages.

 

This is not what the cruise lines are saying.. they are just giving a recommended amount as a thank you to good/great service..

 

And, yes. We should tip what is recommended.

 

I actually agree with this for adults, although I do not agree with the 'suggestion' method, I think they should include service in their fare. For children and infants I think there should be a kind of reduction, yes, I know children/infants receive good service as well.. but same way they pay less to ride/fly/etc, there should be a reduction on tips. I am also considering (partly) into this the family budget (which I know is not the employees or cruise lines problem).

[bplazo]

So you are sayiny that even though the child is receiving probably more service than an adult that they should have a reduced tip. I don't think so! I have seen the mess in many restraunts that a toddler makes.

[mikesteg]

This is exactly the point. Cruiselines are not willing to increase their fares to include tipping/service, for fear of reducing their own revenue (people going to other lines). They care so little about their employees that they will not make such a move to protect their employees' wages at their own risk.

I agree with that. In fact, I'd say the cruise lines lean on those of us who do tip to make us for the non-tippers. If they were to add it to the base fare, I suspect it would be much less than the $10/pppd to offset the actual loss of tips. At least, based on some claims that have been made on the boards about the percentage of 'stiffers'.

 

OTOH, let's not deceive ourselves into believing that tips would then not be expected by the staff. We've been to land based AIs that explicity state "all gratuities included" and the staff clearly expects tips. At least, on U.S. based cruises the staff would undoutedly still be looking for tips. [/font]

Now... regardless of how much or how little we tip, it is NOT our responsability to pay cruise line employees their monthly wages. It is our social responsability to thank for service, be it below average, average, or above average, that is up to each of us. But again, I don't think we should tip since otherwise employees won't make their month.

I agree put I wouldn't put it at the level of social responsibility. To me, social responsibility is making sure someone else's kids don't run out into the street. This is just an appropriate and considerate thing to do.

 

TPKeller said the system is what it is.. really? Is that enough reason? If cruise lines decided we should tip 50 a day pp, is it OK? When airlines decide to charge us extra for every bag checked in (even though we don't have a choice, since we can't even bring a normal size tube of toothpaste on the plane) is it OK? When the system is not what the majority likes or agrees with, we try to change it. I am not particularly refering to cruise tipping (adult, children, and/or infant), but just in general.

 

There is a cliche that you may know: vote with your wallet. If they raise the gratuities to $50pppd, we just go on vacation elsewhere. Businesses that get out of line tend to go out of business (as long as there is a competitive product.)