Need advice~Fiance's ex won't let us have the kids for vacation!

[LHP]

Good News! I just sailed with Carnival last week and just recently Carnival has stopped asking for the parental consent forms! As crazy as this sounds, it is true! My TA mentioned it to me and I called Carnival just to be sure! Call them and ask!

 

Also, just go the courthouse and get a certified copy! All I needed to take my kids (of whom I am divorced from their mom, thanksfully) whose ages are 9 and 15 was their birth certificate, as my ex refused to let me use her copies. I even brought my nephew and didn't need those parental permission papers either...not for Carnival at least.

 

The 17 year old will need a valid driver's license or valid gov't picture ID along with the birth certificate.

 

I believe BC only is for children under the age of 16.....

[LHP]

Invite her to come along....

 

with 6 people, you will need two cabins anyway....she and his two kids in one...you and hubby and your 2 kids in the other....

[MamaTene]

While it is indeed true that Carnival did not ask for copies of certified parental consent letters for my grandsons 12 and 15 who cruised with me just last week, Cozumel Mexico did upon our return to reboard after our excursions. They also wanted to see copies of their birth cert or passports. I had made copies of all and had them with me so no. If one of your stops is Mexico, I wouldnt chance it without proper documentation.

[happycruiser1942]

He is current on all his support and always provides all the extras. We buy all school clothes pay all school and sport fees even just spent money putting new tires and tuning up one the girls car and looking to getting the other one a car since she will driving soon!

 

We have told her that we will take them with just their birth cert. and she will call police on us because we don't have her permission.

 

We went to court in 2007 to get a court order that we can take them for one week of vacation at that time we never thought about going out of the county so we didn't push it. He signed for both of the girls to get passport, as the oldest needed it for a school trip to France in which we paid for.

[NarloJunior]

I am not sure when you cruised but as of last week Carnival said it was not necessary. I think its safer to just bring in, but I would hate for them to not go because of something so...stupid.

[floridaboyz]

GET AN ATTORNEY INVOLVED! (caps intended)

 

While I am not an attorney, I've had enough experience dealing with courts working for social services here in Florida that I can say I have seen "ex's" make "ex's" lives so completely miserable over a whole lot less. It might sound like a good idea to just take the kids on birth certificates, having law enforcement waiting at the pier on allegations of kidnapping is not.

 

Do it the right way through a judge so that it will not come back to bite you. Law enforcement will not care what kind of signed document you have from the "ex", they will only care what is signed by a judge. It may sound like a hassle and that you are spending a bunch of money needlessly now, but you will save yourself money in the long run defending YOURSELF in court and a lot of heartache trying to explain what is in the goodness of your heart.

 

Good luck and I hope all of your four kids get to go on a fun cruise

[DragonMouse]

I hate it when people pawns in the "divorce" game. Poor kids. I would make darn sure that she knows that she's the one that's surpressing them enjoying themselves and it's only going to pull them away from her in the future.

 

On the legal end I agree with the above. Take her to court and get a permanent permission signed. Be sure you are up to snuff with all child support/alimony payments. If your fiance is behind...well then...I don't think it's right to hurt the kids but... Good grief...since 1995...I know divorce hurts but really...:mad:

 

Insurance would probably be a good idea unless you have 2 other people you can think of that could possibly take place. You'll lose some money in change fees but...

 

I really worried about the "absent parent" permissions when we cruised for the first time. My first husband passed away 8 years ago I was concerned about the question coming up so at the advice of my travel agent I took the death certificate along (although technically it should be ingrained in the passport chip). However they never asked.

 

I would be CERTIAN that you have a signed afidavit from her that the kids have her permission...It would really be awful if she claims you kidnapped them and the send the choppers after your cruise. If you go behind her back on this there's no telling how really crappy she could be later on...

[njmomof2]

It sounds to me like you're going to have to go back to court and get this settled once and for all.

 

If you attempt to take them without her permission, she may very well contact the authorities and say you took them out of the country illegally.

 

You must get the court to provide an order allowing you to take them on vacation (including out of the country) during your allowed vacation week until they have reached the age of maturity and she can no longer deny you access by law.

 

Please do not attempt to go behind her back...this can result in so much trouble that it will be awful.

 

It's horrible that she would do this (and hurt the children in the process) for some sense of control or spite. It sounds like he's been an involved and participatory father, so she is only doing it out of spite.

 

So sad.

[comeon530]

GET AN ATTORNEY INVOLVED! (caps intended)

 

While I am not an attorney, I've had enough experience dealing with courts working for social services here in Florida that I can say I have seen "ex's" make "ex's" lives so completely miserable over a whole lot less. It might sound like a good idea to just take the kids on birth certificates, having law enforcement waiting at the pier on allegations of kidnapping is not.

 

Do it the right way through a judge so that it will not come back to bite you. Law enforcement will not care what kind of signed document you have from the "ex", they will only care what is signed by a judge. It may sound like a hassle and that you are spending a bunch of money needlessly now, but you will save yourself money in the long run defending YOURSELF in court and a lot of heartache trying to explain what is in the goodness of your heart.

 

Good luck and I hope all of your four kids get to go on a fun cruise

 

This is very sensible advice. A lot of people are well-meaning, but it's foolish to say 'just go ahead and do it anyway'. Whether or not Carnival wants the permission form, it's required for Mexico, and as floridaboyz said, you could get into a whole lot of trouble. If this doesn't work out for them to go this time, you may have to wait until they are both of age. While disappointing, it's not the end of the world. Either go on your cruise without them or take them to the beach for a week.

[kyrisong1]

I'd say either take it to court and get LEGAL rights to take them, or cancel their part of the cruise and just take your kids.

For 18th birthday take each of his girls on a very special, just them and you cruise.

It's very sad when an ex stands in the way of their childrens enjoyment, but you don't really know what's in her mind about the whole thing.

Perhaps she's afraid to let them go for fear something could happen to them (think Nat Holloway) It may not be meanness or bitterness at all, but fear of the unknown.

I hope this is all resolved, but as hard as it's going with this, if she states she changes her mind and will let them go, I'd make sure I had a legal document signed because if she IS playing games with you she may just pull out at the last minute to annoy you.

Good luck, hope it all works out.

Cheers, Carole

[UpstateCruizer]

OP whatever you do DO NOT attempt to take them without a court signed document stating you can do this or at the very least a notarized document signed by the ex giving you permission to take them out of the country. In many cases something as simple as leaving the state can land a non-custodial parent in trouble without the proper permission to do so.

 

This is a really cut and dry case to please before a judge or magistrate so you really do not need a lawyer unless there are other issues present such as support etc. At the ages of the children the judge will take their wishes into consideration.

 

I really would not get involved in having the kids plead and beg mom at this point. It feeds into her feeling of having "The Power". Follow the legal channels that are there to assist you with these types of issues.

 

Good luck and I commend you for not taking the "they aren't my kids so I'm not taking them on a cruise" approach as many remarried spouses do. :)

[Cre]

Contact a lawyer. I would not take a chance on taking them without the proper documentation especially since the ex has threatened to involve the law. I was forced to cancel a trip with my child recently for the same reason. Needless to say I am not even speaking to her father nor do I intend to in the future. I'm nice but he has dissapointed my child for the absolute LAST time. She'll be 18 soon so I'm just going to hold off on any trips out of the country until then.

Good Luck

[Crusin6]

He is current on all his support and always provides all the extras. We buy all school clothes pay all school and sport fees even just spent money putting new tires and tuning up one the girls car and looking to getting the other one a car since she will driving soon!

 

We have told her that we will take them with just their birth cert. and she will call police on us because we don't have her permission.

 

We went to court in 2007 to get a court order that we can take them for one week of vacation at that time we never thought about going out of the county so we didn't push it. He signed for both of the girls to get passport, as the oldest needed it for a school trip to France in which we paid for.

well since that is not the issue, I guess it is the same old story...the ex wants to be difficult.

 

Not to put the kids in the middle...but have them appeal one last time...and if it is still no....then remind them that at their ages they certainly can request a judge's ruling...if you want to go that route. It won't be long before the ex is out of control so it might not be a bad idea to wait for that family trip rather than incur the legal expenses. Just the 2 of you for now to cruise and then a big celebration in a few years. Just suggesting.

[babyher]

Having an ex wife myself , I can certainly sympathize with your situation. I hope that you can work things out and that the kids get to go.

 

Ex might think she is sticking it to you and her ex, but she is really hurting her kids and it will bite her in the butt.

 

My ex has managed to dissapoint my DS on many occasions while he was growing up. He is now 21 and tries not to have too much to do with her or her family.

 

Kids don't forget :(

[afcj1]

Check with your local jurisdiction or the jurisdiction that granted the divorce, to see if they can offer you any assistance with Pro Se services. Due to their ages, I would hope that the court would take it into consideration.

 

If your internet savvy, you might be able to locate information without even leaving you own home.

 

Much luck to you all.

[Tapi]

Is the ex having issues with cruising specifically or with you taking the kids on vacation anywhere?

[ISurfTooMuch]

IMHO, don't cancel your trip. That would just give her more of a sense of power. Tell her that you've decided that the rest of you will go and that she can explain to the kids why they can't, and that, if she should change her mind, she can buy their tickets herself because you aren't going to wait for her anymore. Then, when you talk to the kids, simply tell them that you're sorry, but their mom won't agree to let them go, so there's nothing more you can do. If they ask why, tell them you don't know, so they should ask her for an explanation. However, assure them that, once they are no longer minors, you will take them.

 

My guess is what she wants is veto power over you having a good time. She probably isn't so much interested in whether or not you fight her over this; she just wants to ruin your vacation. She probably figures that, by doing this, she'll force you to cancel. Well, don't give her the satisfaction. Go and have a good time. She won't feel like she won when she has to face the kids and tell them why she did this.

 

And, as others have said, don't even think of taking them without permission. Kidnapping is a serious crime, and I have no doubt she'd file charges against you. That would give her enormous satisfaction.

[nrdsb4]

Having an ex wife myself , I can certainly sympathize with your situation. I hope that you can work things out and that the kids get to go.

 

Ex might think she is sticking it to you and her ex, but she is really hurting her kids and it will bite her in the butt.

 

My ex has managed to dissapoint my DS on many occasions while he was growing up. He is now 21 and tries not to have too much to do with her or her family.

 

Kids don't forget :(

 

I was thinking along the same lines. Spouses can sometimes get away with this kind of thing when the children are very young, but if she's pulling this stunt strictly out of bitterness, she may be cutting off her nose to spite her face. A 15 y/o and a 17 y/o will see through this and will really resent her for it. Once they are old enough to make their own choices, she may feel the sting of seeing them spend more time with Dad than her. And she'll have no one to blame but herself.

 

Granted, we don't know her side of the story. I can't help but think that bitterness of long standing, even if the other party deserves it, eats away at the soul like a Cancer.

 

Thank God my parents put our needs ahead of their own feelings and never said a bad word about each other to us, never tried to limit access to each other, and never used us as pawns!

[drisinger]

Im not sure where to start! We surpried our 4 kids (2 mine and 2 his) with a cruise for Christmas this year. His ex never said anything would be wrong with it! Now that final payment is due next week he asked for their passports and she refuses to give them to us. She feels that the kids don't need to take a trip like this. They are 15 and 17! Besides hiring an attorney and fighting her in court does any one have any suggestions! :(

Well... you are not going to like what I have to say~ but you asked for a suggestion on what to do.

Your first mistake was assuming his ex-wife was going to agree to this. These children are minors and need approval by both parents to leave the county. It would of been to your best advantage to discuss this with her thoroughly, prior to booking anything. Seeking her endorsement up front would of been the proper course of action. Just because she didn't say anything about your XMAS gift does not imply she supports the idea or not or give her any choice on the matter. Had you had her solid approval up front I highly doubt you'd be in your shoes now.

That being said, involving your children to beg and plead after she said No is just plain wrong. She has her reasons I am sure... have you inquired and given her any respect about her feelings as a parent? She is equally entitled to an opinion I assume.

Why in the world would you consider fighting her and even mention an attorney?

There are reasons for divorse being so harmful to children and I see again the proof of this. Be reasonable and talk together as intelligent adults. If there is not a positive agreeable outcome for you then walk away from this planned trip and revisit it again sometime in the future. Perhaps just dropping a seed this time will help you do something of this nature in the future, perhaps if you approach it differently next time you will have a better chance at your desire.

[CalmCruiserNC]

I just hate hearing about situations like this -- and I understand that as a childless-by-choice couple, we have no place offering anyone any advice about parenting, but since the OP asked, here goes.

 

The kids mother is a bigger child than her kids are. The kids should turn up the whining to an ear-splitting level and let her know that they will resent her until their dying day if she interferes with this. THey can also let her know that when SHE is old and feeble and would LOVE to be her children's guest on a cruise, THEY will remember this day ... and they will let her get her hopes up and then dump her at the curb at the last minute.

 

Truly -- how stupid can some people be??? Petty ... bratty .. childish -- sad I'm describing an ADULT!

 

Feel free to flame me --

[nrdsb4]

Well... you are not going to like what I have to say~ but you asked for a suggestion on what to do.

Your first mistake was assuming his ex-wife was going to agree to this. These children are minors and need approval by both parents to leave the county. It would of been to your best advantage to discuss this with her thoroughly, prior to booking anything. Seeking her endorsement up front would of been the proper course of action. Just because she didn't say anything about your XMAS gift does not imply she supports the idea or not or give her any choice on the matter. Had you had her solid approval up front I highly doubt you'd be in your shoes now.

That being said, involving your children to beg and plead after she said No is just plain wrong. She has her reasons I am sure... have you inquired and given her any respect about her feelings as a parent? She is equally entitled to an opinion I assume.

Why in the world would you consider fighting her and even mention an attorney?

There are reasons for divorse being so harmful to children and I see again the proof of this. Be reasonable and talk together as intelligent adults. If there is not a positive agreeable outcome for you then walk away from this planned trip and revisit it again sometime in the future. Perhaps just dropping a seed this time will help you do something of this nature in the future, perhaps if you approach it differently next time you will have a better chance at your desire.

 

 

Not exactly true. They need both parents permission to get a passport. Last year my 17 y/o was flying with friends to London. I called the airline to see what kind of permission slip she would need as I was not going to be on the same flight. I was told that a 17 y/o did not need parental permission to fly alone to London and she did indeed check in like any other adult passenger. Never questioned at any point.

[glrounds]

Granted, we don't know her side of the story. I can't help but think that bitterness of long standing, even if the other party deserves it, eats away at the soul like a Cancer.

 

Thank God my parents put our needs ahead of their own feelings and never said a bad word about each other to us, never tried to limit access to each other, and never used us as pawns!

 

Although, my ex and I had a very "happy" divorce we initially AGREED without condition that no matter what, we would not make our son the BATTLEGROUND for any disputes that may come up from time to time. We remain today very close friends and both look upon our son as one of our "crowning achievements". :)

[nrdsb4]

^^^^Well done. I love stories like that.:)

[snownyet]

Thats exactly what she is doing! She wants us to know that she is in control! CRAZY!

 

Probably the same reason shes divorced! Theres some folks out there with a crazy mindset that the general population just cant fathom.

 

A bit off topic but we've got a friend whos ex husband convinced his son that he wasnt college material and should just get a job instead.. All so he wouldnt be pressured to contribute financially to the boys education. In the end it all worked out well(insert sarcasm), the Boy is 22 with no skills and has a fine career as a host at the local Bob Evans.

[Seattlecruisers98021]

Wow...feel so bad for you and the kids. As an almost step parent myself. I planned a 7day cruise for my fiancee and his 2, as well, as my 3 last year. I can't stand his ex. She did grant approval but whined and guilted the kids. Then called and harassed us about her son's grades while we were at sea! Hello...what can we do about it from the caribbean. There's a time and aplace for everything...that wasn't the time. So if you get to take them...turn off your phones!

 

Anyway just wanted to toss out there that we went to Belize, Roatan, Cozumel and Cayman in Sept 2009 and didn't need any documentation except for the plane and initial boarding on the ship. Going to and from Ports just used the Sign and sail cards. And I even have one under 18 with a different last name than mine. No problem.

 

Is there a dispute resolution process in their parenting plan? It could stipulate mediation/arbitration to settle these situations when a parent is being unreasonable.

 

Best of luck to you!