Calling all Oenophiles....

[curiouscat]

I was just reviewing the wine list from the MDR and the one thing that struck me was the omittance of the vintage year of the wine...!!! As we all know the year of the wine is a very important component in choosing a wine along with varietal, region etc.....

 

So is the actual wine list on the ship have the vintage year?? Am I missing something?? :confused:

 

Thanks

 

CC

[BroncosFan2010]

I have always seen the vintage year on the menu. Perhaps they have a standard list they put on the website, but the one in the MDR changes based on availability. I am sure you can ask the year of any wine you like and they will be happy to tell you or find out for you.

[curiouscat]

I would certainly think so... but I wanted to do some pre cruise research via the web ....... I like to get the description,ratings...and of course see what the markup is...some wines have a fair markup and some are just way out there.....

 

So that would make my choices a bit more dependent on the Sommelier... and over the yrs they have not been up to par. I want them to be more knowledgeable than me and I not found that to be the case in the last few yrs or so

 

 

CC

[Albert Ross]

Here is a recent wine list from both the MDR and one of the specialities - one has them and the other does not:

xwine list mdr.pdf

xwinelist speciality rest.pdf

[curiouscat]

Thanks.... as you can see the MDR does not have the vintage yr.. while the specialty one does... and boy it's a much better list than the MDR list...

 

Can you order a bottle in the MDR off the specialty wine list? I'm sure going to ask... I'll have the poor sommelier running around:p

 

CC

[sdbmd]

Don't count on the vintage listed on the menu being what you actually get served. I was just on the Solstice and the menu listed the Gavi di Gavi I ordered as being 2006 and I actually was served an 08.

[Jobeth66]

Don't count on the vintage listed on the menu being what you actually get served. I was just on the Solstice and the menu listed the Gavi di Gavi I ordered as being 2006 and I actually was served an 08.

 

That would be a huge problem for me - not as much with a white, but I rarely drink whites. We all know there can be a huge difference in quality from vintage year to vintage year, and like the OP, I tend to research my vintages and I want to know ratings, etc. beforehand. If I order X and get Y, unless Y is a better vintage, I'm going to be very unhappy.

[garardo]

It appears as you are into the wine thing. My reccomendation would be to meet with the Cellar Master. He will make sure that you can get any bottle of wine any where you want it.

It would be best if you could make your choice in advance.

 

Because Celebrity buys a ton of the everyday wine and it costs money to reprint the wine list you will not see a vintage data on the MDR list.

 

 

Gary Bobier

Certified Sommelier

[curiouscat]

Garado

 

Thanks... That's what I will be doing on my upcoming Solstice cruise...I'm sure I'll be spending a fair amount of time at the cellarmasters venue. I'll just find someone there to discuss my wine choices.

 

I was looking into the bev package but opted not to purchase because it not only didn't cover wine by the bottle but the wine by the glass was limited... and hubby said he rather me order what I want thnn be limited... :D

 

The one good thing about sailing on X is the Sommeliers... when I first started cruising they were part of the dining experience on every line... now they are the exception rather than the rule

 

CC

 

PS do u work in one of the hotels/restaurants in Vegas??

[Project_gal]

It appears as you are into the wine thing. My reccomendation would be to meet with the Cellar Master. He will make sure that you can get any bottle of wine any where you want it.

It would be best if you could make your choice in advance.

 

..I'm sure I'll be spending a fair amount of time at the cellarmasters venue. I'll just find someone there to discuss my wine choices.

 

The Cellar Master is the head Sommelier on board. Cellar Masters is a venue dispensing wine by machine on the S-Class ships and Constellation. You would be better speaking to the Cellar Master!

 

Sue

[garardo]

The Cellar Master is the head Sommelier on board. Cellar Masters is a venue dispensing wine by machine on the S-Class ships and Constellation. You would be better speaking to the Cellar Master!

 

Sue

 

Please note that some of the Sommeliers that serve you your wine at the table have limited knowledge. For example if you are looking for a Chianti that is 100% Sangiovese chances are your table Sommelier will not have a clue. The same thing would happen if you were looking for a Chard with no Malo. Your best bet would be to get a hold of the Cellar Master before dinner service and order his reccomedation.

 

garardo

[curiouscat]

Garado

 

Thanks... what I planned on doing is going to the "Cellar Masters"venue and inquire there about the available wine list. Then find a sommelier or the head person in charge of the wine on the ship that has the most knowledge and get the information I want.

 

I agree all Sommeliers are not created equal.... and the ones on the ship today I don't believe have the credentials. I think Sommelier is a loosely used term and not equal to the ones I encounter at land restaurants.

 

CC

 

Ps I only like my Chards un oaked...:D Typically I don't even do Chards anymore.

[Booyakasha]

Here are some things that I learned on our last cruise on Mercury in regards to wine.

 

If there is a vintage on the menu it may not be the same vintage you get. Make sure to check if the specific vintage is very important.

 

The Sommoliers are not true Sommoliers they go through a Celebrity wine training program. They are very nice but sometime their knowledge is lacking. They are very willing to learn from you if you know more about a specific wine then they do. They also are allowed to taste if you let them.

 

Wine prices are very good, just slightly above retail in most cases

 

You don't have to take the Riedel glass seminar to drink out of Riedel in the MDR, just ask nicely.

 

If you are doing select dining find a Sommolier and get to know him or her you will get better service. Buying a lot of wine also helps this :D

 

A lot of the red wines are way too warm.

 

B.

[Project_gal]

A lot of the red wines are way too warm.

 

I find that this is a culture thing. IMHO red wine is served far too cold in the US. It is important, therefore, to ensure that the Sommelier knows how you want your wine served.

 

Sue

[curiouscat]

red wine should be cellar temp.... 55-58 deg (that is Farenheit)...that's pretty standard in Europe and throughout the world..

 

Actually in the US I find most places don't cellar or keep their wines in appropriate storage and temperture.... they just get a bottle from a back room which makes it room temp

 

 

 

CC

[mzkmann]

...The Sommoliers are not true Sommoliers they go through a Celebrity wine training program. They are very nice but sometime their knowledge is lacking. They are very willing to learn from you if you know more about a specific wine then they do. They also are allowed to taste if you let them.

 

 

The info above explains the "sommelier" training that Celebrity gives their (more appropriately named) wine stewards. I just knew that something was fishy about their "sommelier" classification. It's kinda like a medical doctor title being given to a paramedic.

 

We just returned yesterday from our 10/3-10/10 sailing on the Solstice. We dined every night save one in the MDR. We brought our OWN two bottles of California wines on the ship. Our bottle of Sta Barbara County vineyard select Pinot Noir was well received at The Tuscan Grille. It was our 25th Anniversary dinner and, unfortunately, we were still charged the "corkage fee". I thought they might possibly waive it, but no. No problem, I was forewarned. However, they still charge the ubiquitous 15% gratuity even on that! Geez!

 

Our MDR "sommelier" seemed to know more than the general populace of guests on the ship, but less to far less than knowlegable oenophiles. Our nice, yet somewhat snooty young (eastern European) "sommelier" had no idea about unoaked or oaked Chard's. We had to describe the differences in vinification to him. He also had no idea on pouring temperatures. He especially seemed to have a lack of knowlege California wines. We wanted to share our bottle of Napa Valley vineyard select Chard with our 4 table mates so we chilled the bottle in our stateroom frig for an hour prior to dinner...plenty chilled by the time we reached the MDR (around 60 degrees). I sat the bottle on the table, the "sommelier" saw it, took it and promptly told me that there would be a $25 corkage. I acknowleged that and he told me that he would put it in an ice bucket. I asked him not to do so b/c it was at the perfect temp already where we could actually get the nose and taste the fruit. 2 more table mates were yet to arrive so he insisted that the bottle be put in ice. I told him to go ahead but only for 5 minutes. He brought back the bottle in ice, our remaining 2 diners arrived in about 3 minutes and he promptly poured the wine and then returned the wine to ice...with its cork in the bottle. So much for the wine opening up any. He stepped away so I removed it from the ice, removed the cork and sat it on the table. I spoke to the Head Sommelier (Cellar Master?) and told him my story. He promptly spoke to our wine steward and offered us complimentary bottle of house Champagne for the following night. He told me that some of the "sommeliers" don't expect knowlegable wine drinkers so they just put every white wine in ice and cork it. To me that makes absolutely NO sense! Shouldn't they be wine educators of sorts, what with their "sommelier" title?

 

And with a corkage fee above $15 I expect not only opening but also decanting. I imagine there is neither a decanter nor or a Vinturi on board the entire ship! I understand that the corkage fee is to make some sort of money in wine sales, but please give me service and some knowlege for that dough (plus that gratuity)! But the gratuity was waived by the CM later without my asking for it. I appreciated that.

 

I bet that the only properly certified sommelier on board the Solstice is the Cellar Master. And I bet even he, being an eastern European, knows little about California wines. Likewise, I know little about European wine. I would like to learn more though.

 

If one wants to have some truly good wine with a couple of dinners, I suggest bringing your own 2 allowed bottles with you. As for the wines being only slightly above retail prices, if one considers a minimum 300% mark up slight, then that is correct. $8-$12 per glass of low quality wine is at LEAST 400% mark up over store retail ($8 btls retail). If you're gonna drink more than 2 btls of your own quality wine, be prepared to spend hundreds of dollars for 2-3 more.

 

Cheers!

[mzkmann]

red wine should be cellar temp.... 55-58 deg (that is Farenheit)...that's pretty standard in Europe and throughout the world..

 

Actually in the US I find most places don't cellar or keep their wines in appropriate storage and temperture.... they just get a bottle from a back room which makes it room temp.CC

 

 

Every tasting room (dozens) I've been to in California, Oregon and (cough) Virginia have poured their red flights at room temp. A slight chill (65-70 d's) maybe. Depends on the ambient room temp. My house is a bit warm due to the wife's preferences, so I might slightly chill ours at home. :rolleyes: Most tasting rooms are bit a bit chillier than than my 78-80 degree house. (sweat, drip) We cellar most of our finer wines at 55-60 d's.

[Booyakasha]

The higher priced wines on celebrity $50 and up are very reasonably priced when compared to most U.S. restaurants. The prices on non-U.S wines were much beter than domestics. No way is there a 300% mark up on those bottles. Maybe on an $8 bottle sure :eek:.

 

For example on our last cruise they had a Tignanello for $120/bottle. Retail on this is probably $80-$100. You will never find that in a restaurant. Spanish Verdejo (forget the winery) was just about retail. High end BDX probably showed a mark up of $25 or $50 a bottle.

So if you want to drink cheap wine that is fine but to haul and pay corkage on a cheap bottle IMO is silly when you can buy a really nice $40 bottle of wine at near retail if you know what you are doing.

 

B.

[WineDown17]

I am really enjoying this thread...

 

Can someone confirm the statement that one can order a glass or bottle of wine froma venue other than the mdr?

 

We are planning to bring a bottle of Far Niente and Opus One with us...but will also order wine... Want to know if we are limited to the mdr wine list in the mdr!!

[Booyakasha]

Every tasting room (dozens) I've been to in California, Oregon and (cough) Virginia have poured their red flights at room temp. A slight chill (65-70 d's) maybe. Depends on the ambient room temp. My house is a bit warm due to the wife's preferences, so I might slightly chill ours at home. :rolleyes: Most tasting rooms are bit a bit chillier than than my 78-80 degree house. (sweat, drip) We cellar most of our finer wines at 55-60 d's.

 

Most reds show best somewhere in the low to mid 60s. There isn't a red that I can think of that should ever be served even close to 70 degrees. HIgher alc wines like Zin and CA Syrah and PN show best at just above cellar temp.

 

Overall the majority of American restaurants server red wine way too warm and white wine way to cold.

 

B.

[curiouscat]

Mzkman....ok that is a story... I can certainly see a "sommelier" or wine steward want to overchill the wine.(especially since the most popular wine served on ships is White Zinfandel )..but to recork the bottle !! I've never experienced that before.... every cork should be placed on the table...if not handed to you for inspection on red varietals....

 

Winedown17.... Far Niente... great choice... My first experience with wine and X was on the Mercury Pacific coastal wine cruise.The wine seminars held during the 10 day sailing were perfunctionary(sponsored by Kendall Jackson) but they had a special wine dinner hosted by Far Niente....they had a winemaker and his wife join us for dinner and the chef paired the dinner with the wines... and I got to sit next to the Captain(who did not drink) !!! For $75 it was a most wonderful experience....

 

CC

[WineDown17]

Thanks...at 175 a bottle on board it makes sense to make our carry aboards worthwhile!

 

We may name our next boat far niente...without a care....which is what i will be in 38 days!

[mzkmann]

Most reds show best somewhere in the low to mid 60s. There isn't a red that I can think of that should ever be served even close to 70 degrees. HIgher alc wines like Zin and CA Syrah and PN show best at just above cellar temp.

 

Overall the majority of American restaurants server red wine way too warm and white wine way to cold.

 

B.

 

 

I have to agree with you on both points there. Still, I prefer most of my reds with only a slight chill.

[mzkmann]

So if you want to drink cheap wine that is fine but to haul and pay corkage on a cheap bottle IMO is silly when you can buy a really nice $40 bottle of wine at near retail if you know what you are doing.

 

B.

 

Uh, I didn't take "cheap" wine. And it was no problem, inconvenience or luggage weight issue with my two bottles. We were still well under 50 lbs with both of our suitcases.

 

Another reason we took our own bottles is b/c we had cellared and earmarked both for our 25th Anniversary. Just so happened that it occurred on a ship.

 

And as I admitted, I know little to nothing about European wines. And I didn't want to pay ship prices (however little the markup) to learn about it from sub-par "sommeliers".

 

We wine snobs are a hoot aren't we? Just gotta laugh at yourself sometimes...I'm laughing at myself right now. :o

[mzkmann]

My first experience with wine and X was on the Mercury Pacific coastal wine cruise.The wine seminars held during the 10 day sailing were perfunctionary(sponsored by Kendall Jackson) but they had a special wine dinner hosted by Far Niente....they had a winemaker and his wife join us for dinner and the chef paired the dinner with the wines... and I got to sit next to the Captain(who did not drink) !!! For $75 it was a most wonderful experience....

 

CC

 

THAT sounds like a fun cruise and wine event! KJ is a mass producing winery and attention to detail usually lacks there IMO. I've had a couple of their "select" wines that are so-so. Far Niente has good ones and I'm sure the dinner with the winemaker was fantastic! We've had occasion to meet with winemakers (even being their guinea pigs as they were blending the next year's vintages) on our wine trips to Central Coast wineries (Sta Barbara through Paso Robles). We like to find the little hidden gems that produce no more than 200 cases of each varietal and have young winemakers. Those trips are so fun!