Should parents bring their infants onboard?

[spongerob]

Maybe it's time that we (as a group) tried to find some common ground that we can agree upon rather than putting words into each others' mouths. The discussion is not about family cruising in general, it is in regards to a specific comment about infants. The point is an excellent one. A ship is a very confined environment, and we all need to exercise some restraint. None of us has more or less right to our vacation, and maybe if we started to think that way, we might find ways to get along better.

 

This was a pleasant discussion until someone decided to assert rights that do not exist.

[luv2cruise99]

As a mother who cruises with two infants, I can give you several reasons why I do not choose Disney:

 

1) As someone else stated, their prices are OUTRAGEOUS!

2) They only offer cruises from the east coast.

3) Many young children (including mine) are terrified of costumed characters.

4) No onboard casino.

5) Only nonsmoking cabins (I don't smoke, but I travel with people who do).

 

The only thing that Disney offers me that the other lines don't is child care that starts at 6 months instead of 3 years, but since I feel my children are too young to be left with strangers, that is of little benefit to me.

 

Please remember that it is not "us" turning every line into another Disney. In recent years, the cruiselines have all been expanding child programs and marketing heavily to families because they know that is where the market is. In fact, this family-friendly trend started even before there was a Disney Cruiselines.

 

I also would like to see some adult only cruises so that everybody can be happy and have the cruise that suits them best. However, it is my understanding that Celebrity Cruises used to offer a few adult only cruises every year and have recently discontinued them. I can only guess it is because of low sales.

 

"It is quite logical to question why parents who insist on bringing infants onboard a cruise instead of a more kid-friendly vacation wouldn't consider going Disney since they cater to children. Disney was the magical solution for those parents who want to cruise with children and infants. Why do they have to turn every line into another Disney? I agree with you that the large cruise lines are hungry for every dollar. You conclude there is little chance of them doing an adult-only cruise. I'm not sure, especially as baby boomers are now in their 50s, but if that is true then you're going to see even more of us adult customers demanding tighter quotas on children and a higher minimum age on the lines we choose. I can't see why Princess wouldn't make their minimum age 1 year across the board as anything under that is just asking for trouble. They would make up the loss of the few allowable families with infants easily by attracting more adults who are likely to bring more drink revenue (and no, they don't have to be obnoxious drunks).

[LARGIN]

Maybe it's time that we (as a group) tried to find some common ground that we can agree upon rather than putting words into each others' mouths. The discussion is not about family cruising in general, it is in regards to a specific comment about infants. The point is an excellent one. A ship is a very confined environment, and we all need to exercise some restraint. None of us has more or less right to our vacation, and maybe if we started to think that way, we might find ways to get along better.

 

This was a pleasant discussion until someone decided to assert rights that do not exist.

 

Agree.. Often, discussions move far from the OP's original intent

[kryos]

Exactly! Having been through the "colic baby" I literaly wore the carpet out pacing at night and nothing helps! I can't even begin to imagine being on a cruise ship with him. And we all know a baby with an ear infection is "long nights and no sleep".

Last I heard, there are medical facilities on most ships. If the baby picks up an ear infection so bad as to have him crying all night, I would imagine a call to 911 should get the ship's doctor out of bed and into your cabin in no time flat.

 

And there are medications for colic and teething troubles too.

 

I don't know what to say except that if your baby has colic and you've been wearing out the carpets with him at home before the cruise, then in that case you are probably better off leaving him at home if that is at all possible. In such a case, he won't enjoy the journey, and neither will you.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[roe2ship]

Hmmm…let’s see…..someone decided and reminded that this discussion is only about infants. Although after three pages of all sorts of comments not a word was mentioned to keep the “infant” topic at hand Wonder why? Oh well..... in case anyone missed them, here are just a few:

 

• kids now 9 & 6...good age to start cruises
  
• If I wanted to cruise without all these other people, I'd hire a private yacht.
  
• The initial poll was about infants but it seems some of the posters have decided on different ages.
  
• If you don't like children, then don't come on a boat that takes them
  
• Many of the cruise lines market to families nowadays (that is where the money is) and that includes small children. When booking, folks need to be aware of this. If you do not want children around, you need to be checking into cruise lines that cater to a crowd of adults only.
  
• So parents will continue to bring babies & children onboard
  
• I realize that children cannot be turned away they don't belong in this type of restaurant.
  
• Well behaved infants and children should be allowed on cruises AS LONG AS the parents behave responsibly as well
  
• I voted No I just don't think its the best "family vacation" for babiesWe still haven't taken our "children", 31 & 32 on a cruise vacation because we consider cruises an adult style vacation.
  
• Why not get rid of the kids programs on some lines and increase them on others.
  
• Those of us trying to avoid kids would have a safe space....
  
• As it is, Disney is the family cruise monster
  

Soooo, as a parent, I would like to see this family, children, adult, Disney, cruise market topic going :D

[spongerob]

Soooo, as a parent, I would like to see this family, children, adult, Disney, cruise market topic going :D

 

Let's look at Disney. They do extremely well in the family market and offer a fantastic product that easily commands a premium price. I believe that their strength comes from being extraordinarily focused upon servicing families, and avoiding the conflict of interest that come from trying to serve both the adult vacationer and family vacationer at the same time. Notice that Disney has not expanded, however. If there is such huge strength in the family cruise market, one would think that the business case to build more ships (and more theme parks, for that matter) would be an easy one to prepare and execute. The fact that they haven't, maybe indicates that it's not quite as profitable as it first appears.

 

I think one can correlate the steady growth in the family cruise market, primarily in the Caribbean, with the slow but steady reduction of perceived quality, expansion of so-called nickle-and-diming, and a commodity pricing regime. Celebrity has pulled out of the Caribbean for the summer "family" season, and gone to Europe. I believe that this decision was made because they cannot maintain their standards of service delivery in such a cost-competitive market. On-board revenues on a per-passenger basis are probably not enough to justify the lower fares that prevail.

 

We have also seen the trend towards larger and larger ships with even more secondary profit centers (more nickle-and-diming), and less focus on traditional cruising strengths such as dining and entertainment. Port calls are just long enough to say you were there.

 

Las Vegas tried this experiment. What they found was that families came, but didn't spend any money. The two biggest family-friendly casinos (Circus Circus and Excalibur) are widely regarded as dumps. Other casinos have dropped their kiddie attractions in favor of the adult market. That is where the real money is. None of the new places even think about going after the family market. They have learned their lesson. Families, quite reasonably, have to economize, so they are not good sources of secondary revenue.

 

There is money to be made with families. One way, like Disney, is to remain focused on the mission and do what it takes to provide a high-quality experience that might cost more, but clearly has value. The other way is to offer a low price, cut corners, trim services, eliminate the little extras, and convince people that they are getting a great "deal" in exchange. The first way has a track record of being successful. The second has ample example of a slow spiral to failure. Sooner or later, someone will come along and get it right. Without the lucrative adult-vacationer base that supports profitability, the only alternative is to further reduce services, increase passenger loading, or add additional charges.

[luv2cruise99]

I think you made an excellent point as to why the family cruise market is so profitable (although I don't think that was your intention). Disney offers a unique product that some people are willing to pay a premium for. However, while other cruiselines are expanding rapidly, they remain with only two ships. Disney does well with only two ships. I'm not so sure that they would do so well if they built more. Families are looking for a "something for everyone but do it on a budget" type vacation. Disney fails to provide that in that they are too expensive for many families and that they are perceived as too kid-centered. For example, they lack a casino, something that is a big draw to many adults.

 

The other cruiselines, on the other hand, are offering a product that is priced right for the budget-conscious family and that offers a good mix of adult and child activities. I know that I, as a parent of two young children, don't much care that food quality or service is lower than it was a decade ago or that there are more optional charges. What I do care about is that my kids and I all have a great time and that when we return, I can still afford to pay the rent. I think any cruiseline that can provided that to families is apt to do very well.

 

I also don't think that cruiseships can be compared to Vegas. Casinos such as Circus Circus did do a good job of providing kid-friendly activities. But what they didn't do is provide inexpensive (or free) child care so that the kids could enjoy those activities while the parents played. Sure, your kid would have a great time in the arcade, but you couldn't be sitting at the blackjack table or in the bar while they did it. Also, I think that Vegas had a difficult time dispelling the perception that it was an adults-only vacation. Cruiseships have already successfully marketed themselves as family-friendly.

 

In regard to onboard revenue, remember that these little tykes all come with parents and that these parents do spend money in the casino or at the bar. Also, the little ones help fill quad cabins that otherwise would sail with only 2 people. And while children may not gamble or drink, they do spend significant amounts in the arcade and on optional items such as Coke cards, premium ice cream, Johnny Rocket hamburgers, etc. I would also guess that photo and souvenir sales increase due to kids onboard. Parents are willing to spend exhorbitant amounts on souvenirs and photos for their kids that they would never dream of spending on themselves.

 

I think the trend will be even more mega ships with even more activities that appeal to a variety of ages. Service and food quality may continue to decline, but I don't think most families care about that if the price is right (I don't). One or two ships designed as adult-only traditional cruises might do well if marketed correctly, but I think cruising as a whole will continue to evolve into a family-centered vacation.

 

 

Let's look at Disney. They do extremely well in the family market and offer a fantastic product that easily commands a premium price. I believe that their strength comes from being extraordinarily focused upon servicing families, and avoiding the conflict of interest that come from trying to serve both the adult vacationer and family vacationer at the same time. Notice that Disney has not expanded, however. If there is such huge strength in the family cruise market, one would think that the business case to build more ships (and more theme parks, for that matter) would be an easy one to prepare and execute. The fact that they haven't, maybe indicates that it's not quite as profitable as it first appears.

 

I think one can correlate the steady growth in the family cruise market, primarily in the Caribbean, with the slow but steady reduction of perceived quality, expansion of so-called nickle-and-diming, and a commodity pricing regime. Celebrity has pulled out of the Caribbean for the summer "family" season, and gone to Europe. I believe that this decision was made because they cannot maintain their standards of service delivery in such a cost-competitive market. On-board revenues on a per-passenger basis are probably not enough to justify the lower fares that prevail.

 

We have also seen the trend towards larger and larger ships with even more secondary profit centers (more nickle-and-diming), and less focus on traditional cruising strengths such as dining and entertainment. Port calls are just long enough to say you were there.

 

Las Vegas tried this experiment. What they found was that families came, but didn't spend any money. The two biggest family-friendly casinos (Circus Circus and Excalibur) are widely regarded as dumps. Other casinos have dropped their kiddie attractions in favor of the adult market. That is where the real money is. None of the new places even think about going after the family market. They have learned their lesson. Families, quite reasonably, have to economize, so they are not good sources of secondary revenue.

 

There is money to be made with families. One way, like Disney, is to remain focused on the mission and do what it takes to provide a high-quality experience that might cost more, but clearly has value. The other way is to offer a low price, cut corners, trim services, eliminate the little extras, and convince people that they are getting a great "deal" in exchange. The first way has a track record of being successful. The second has ample example of a slow spiral to failure. Sooner or later, someone will come along and get it right. Without the lucrative adult-vacationer base that supports profitability, the only alternative is to further reduce services, increase passenger loading, or add additional charges.

[LARGIN]

15 day, non-holiday sailings equals minimum number of kids.. What a concept.. Works for me..

[Lynda90]

15 day, non-holiday sailings equals minimum number of kids.. What a concept.. Works for me..

Amen! Amen! Amen--works for me, too!

[spongerob]

I think the trend will be even more mega ships with even more activities that appeal to a variety of ages. Service and food quality may continue to decline, but I don't think most families care about that if the price is right (I don't). One or two ships designed as adult-only traditional cruises might do well if marketed correctly, but I think cruising as a whole will continue to evolve into a family-centered vacation.

 

Good answer, and thanks for providing a well-reasoned argument. The thing is, to satisfy you, Princess loses me as a customer. The things you don't care for, I enjoy immensely and regard as an essential element of cruising. I don't think it is necessary, or smart, for cruise lines to willingly ignore a portion of their customer base. You are important, because your little 3rd and 4th berthers will one day be booking cruises of their own. I'd like to think I'm important to Princess, too. I've got a lot of cruising left to do!

 

What really impresses me about Princess is that they have been able to strike a good balance for both sides. There is no reason that you can't have a family-centered vacation and enjoy the finer things about cruising. There really isn't a point to cruising if it's not markedly distinct from the run of the mill trip.

[mii]

15 day, non-holiday sailings equals minimum number of kids.. What a concept.. Works for me..

 

Also amen, amen, works for me too.

 

Marilyn

[bdjam]

I put in a “no” vote. I’m not a parent and I don’t mind kids around, but I think an infant on board is pushing it a bit much. An infant is totally dependent on a parent for care to survive - contrary to what some believe, they are not "people too" and they don't have majority rights. They are humans who are totally dependent on others for care. I would think that something that fragile would require something more than being bundled up and shoved on a plane, and then put on an unstable ship at sea. A ship is not a hotel, it is not a beach, and it is not grandma’s house. It is a totally different entity. I think that proper care and upbringing of children is the parent’s responsibility and with that comes the ability to determine when a child is capable of undertaking a major vacation like a cruise...and I don't agree with anyone who feels an infant is at that stage.

I’m sorry, I know from the posts that many of you disagree with me, but I don’t think a good parent would take an infant on this kind of outing. And I think as people become parents, they should understand the responsibilities that they face and that life can’t go on just like it did before the child came into the world. Maybe if some of those who feel its their right to be parents would realize this, there wouldn’t be so many children in crisis in this country.

[coiran]

Amen - I agree!

 

Ron

[Tahitian Princess]

Let me see if I can do this with out rambling on, like I did on page 1.

I realize this post started about infants and then grew to toddlers, children and teens. I realize families will be cruising, nothing anyone says, whether we agree or disagree, will change that. The main point here is be responsible for your children and yourselves, be considerate of others and I think if there are major disturbences then the cruiselines should take care of the problem and boot the culprits off the ship. It's better to lose a few customers(the ones that were booted) rather then a shipload.

[lkmamom]

Tahitimama,

 

I think that you said it perfectly, and I did not think that you rambled on in your first post. :) I agree with the not bringing infants on a cruise. They are simply too young to remember and to take all of the "stuff " that is needed, well, it is just not worth it. Infants thrive on consistency and when changes happen in their little world, they do the only thing that they can do to communicate.....cry. Not fun for your neighbor!

 

I am though feeling a little badly about all the teen and kid posts. We cruise with our teen and will continue to cruise with him. He has never given us a reason to not bring him along, and cruising is our favorite family vacation. If he is out of line, we would like to know about it. Please remember that not all kids and teens are bad. One of our family's worst experiances on a cruise was while waiting in a customs line sandwiched between four extremely obnoxious and foul mouthed adults ranting and raving because they had to to stand in line. They were not together, there were two separate couples, going on in front of and behind us. What topped it all off was when they then started glaring at our son because "kids should not be allowed on cruise ships". We did not say a word ( if I would have said what I was thinking I would have been thrown off). Parents really need to be accountable for their children and when they are not, then the cruiseline should step in. I don't know what you do about the obnoxious adults in this world.......Patience?? I guess I would just ask that for those who do not like kids, please do not prejudge all kids as disruptive until they are proven guilty. As long as kids/teens are respectful of others they deserve that same respect in return. Whew, okay I feel better now. :rolleyes:

[Tahitian Princess]

Thank you lkmamom, I agree with you as well! I would say most teens and young children are well behaved on the cruises we've been on. Yes, I have probably seem more rude adults on our trips. I think when it gets so bad on cruises that these people of any age continually cause major problems they should be escorted off the ship at their own expense. There was another post awhile back where some very unruly teenagers, were spitting on people, throwing lounge chairs in the pool, throwing food and knocking people over. No parents in sight, or partying elsewhere and not being responsible for their kids. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior and I believe the cruiselines should end it as quick as it started. A constant crying infant or child should not be interfering with people's vacation either. For that matter obnoxious unruly adults shouldn't either. If any of these people or their families have been talked to by the ships employee's and keep up the poor behavior. Then I believe they should be removed from the ship. If there are rules they should be followed so everyone can have a relaxing vacation. Of course, this is my opinion, It doesn't seem that it would be too hard to deal with since this is a small percentage of passengers supposedly on each cruise. Maybe then eventually the word would get out and people would get the message.

[scbntraveler]

Having monitored the responses since my posting, I see this thread it starting to stray off course to include adults and older children. I have no problem with your opinions. However, your opinion regarding children should not be influencing the poll. I may be wrong, but I am getting the impression that people are taking offense at children not being allowed on cruises period.

 

The poll states if you think infants "roughly under the age of 1" should be regular cruisers?

 

If you want to vote to see if children should be allow to cruise, start another poll. I believe you will find the poll results will be reversed and probably by a majority.

 

There is a world of a difference between a two year old and an infant.

 

IMO - Children should experince the world and cultures other then America. I think one problem with "us" Americans is our misunderstanding or ignorance to other cultures. As a child, it is important to see other countries even if it is just a neighboring country. It still gives them an early exposure to the appreciation of different languages, economic situations and so forth. I believe a two year can appreciate this as well even though they may or may not remember the experience. Don't rush it, the infant should have plenty more years to cruise with you and your family.

 

:( I am sorry but an infant is not going to have any benefit from a trip such as a cruise. I am sure there are many other vacations that would be ideal for a family with an infant. Likewise, unless it is an emergency, visiting family and such, infants really should not be regular airline passengers. As I had stated before I can tune them out. I can sleep at night without hearing anything. However, in respect for my fellow travelers since they do not have the luxury of turning off hearing aids. Parents should be considerate of others. Likewise as decent citizens, we should respect one another.

[KAJOKG]

This is probably moot since Princess does not allow infants, but NO-NO-NO!

I WONDER -- WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO AN INFANT IF HE/SHE CAUGHT THE NOROVIRUS????

[luv2cruise99]

Princess does allow infants starting at 6 months for Mexican, Alaskan and Caribbean itineraries and 12 months for exotic itineraries. My twins were on a Princess cruise at 9-months and will be going again at 18-months.

 

The same thing would happen to an infant with the norovirus as would happen to anybody else (I checked with my pediatrician prior to cruising with my babies). They would feel sick and awful for a few days and then get over it. This is of course assuming that they were healthy to start.

 

By the way, the chances of catching the norovirus on a cruise is no greater than anywhere else that attracts alot of people. This includes zoos, shopping malls, amusement parks, etc. You just hear about it alot more because cruiselines are required to report it and other places are not.

 

This is probably moot since Princess does not allow infants, but NO-NO-NO!

I WONDER -- WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO AN INFANT IF HE/SHE CAUGHT THE NOROVIRUS????

[NitaBcruising]

This brings up a pretty picture! :rolleyes:

 

Quote - In regard to onboard revenue, remember that these little tykes all come with parents and that these parents do spend money in the casino or at the bar. - Quote

 

I assume you didn't mean to paint the pic that came to mind, but this struck me funny! I can just picture this fun family cruise, with the parents sitting at the casino, drinking, and where is baby? :D

[CruisinFools]

In regard to taking infants with you on vcacation (gee, I sure hope those folks who actually voted "yes" to the poll will read this...), first of all, do you REALLY think the baby will enjoy the cruise? He/she won't even know where they are, will probably pick up a cold or infection and would much prefer the security and familiarity of their own home. Second, do you really think you're going to enjoy your vacation to it's maximum potential? If you can't stand to be away from your baby for more than a couple of hours, stay home. If you can't afford to hire someone to watch your baby for a week while you're away on vacation, then you probably can't afford a cruise vacation. And third, no one is going to "ooh" and "aah" over your baby like you do. It is apparent by this poll that people who don't want infants on board outnumber those that do by 2 to 1. If you must take your baby, in fact, I believe that anyone with children under the age of 14 would do better on a Disney cruise.

[luv2cruise99]

I think I can answer some of your questions to parents:

 

1) They may not know where they are and they may not have memories of the trip 20 years from now, but that does not mean they don't enjoy it while they are there and don't benefit from spending relaxed time with family (including extended family). I have pictures of my babies on our last cruise that show they were obviously having a great time. If we use what they know and remember as the criteria of where we should take them, then we might as well just lock them into their cribs until the age of 3!

 

2) Their chances of picking up a cold or infection on a cruise is no different than anywhere else. Again, unless you lock them into their cribs until age 3, they are going to be exposed to germs no matter what you do.

 

3) I did enjoy my cruise to it's maximum potential! It was a different cruising experience from my child-free cruises, but I consider it the best cruise I've ever had!

 

4) For some people, it's not about money. Some people actually ENJOY being around their children and want to spend time with them. HELL would have to freeze over before I allowed my babies to be cared for by a HIRED stranger for an entire week while I was off cruising a foreign land. It's not as easy as kenneling a dog!

 

5) Many people did "ooh" and "aah" over my babies on the last cruise. I'm sure there were also many people who wished they weren't there. I did the best that I could to minimize any disturbance that they might cause by taking them to an isolated part of the ship when they were crying, keeping them on a reasonable schedule so that they wouldn't get overtired and cranky, eating at the buffet instead of the main dining room, and anticipating there needs ahead of time so that I would be prepared for anything. Overall, I think it went very well. In fact, it went so well that my cabin neighbors did not even realize that I had one infant, let alone twins, in my cabin until they ran into us leaving the cabin on the last morning of the cruise!

 

6) As I've said in a previous post, Disney offers a wonderful cruise that I'm sure is a perfect match for many families. However, it is not a good fit with my family for various reasons.

 

In regard to taking infants with you on vcacation (gee, I sure hope those folks who actually voted "yes" to the poll will read this...), first of all, do you REALLY think the baby will enjoy the cruise? He/she won't even know where they are, will probably pick up a cold or infection and would much prefer the security and familiarity of their own home. Second, do you really think you're going to enjoy your vacation to it's maximum potential? If you can't stand to be away from your baby for more than a couple of hours, stay home. If you can't afford to hire someone to watch your baby for a week while you're away on vacation, then you probably can't afford a cruise vacation. And third, no one is going to "ooh" and "aah" over your baby like you do. It is apparent by this poll that people who don't want infants on board outnumber those that do by 2 to 1. If you must take your baby, in fact, I believe that anyone with children under the age of 14 would do better on a Disney cruise.

[kathyinca]

We'll be cruising for the first time with our 8 month old son on Princess during June. I've cruised several times before I had a child and never minded seeing young children or even infants on board. Actually, toddlers could be louder and more annoying than most infants are.

 

I won't be taking the advice from this board. Our cruise is already booked & paid for.

 

If I listened to most of you, we wouldn't be leaving our house for the next few years. Instead of living in a bubble, we will enjoy cruising with many family members from around the country that will also enjoy seeing my son.

 

Hope that I'm not in the room next to any of you folks.....not that he would bother you since he sleeps soundly from 6pm to 6am! I'm sure my husband's snoring will be more bothersome to the folks in the room next door than anything my infant son does.

 

Maybe you all need to find another company to cruise with if you really get this upset about infants traveling near you.

[luv2cruise99]

kathyinca,

 

I can tell you from experience that you will find the people onboard ship alot friendlier and more tolerant towards your son than reading these boards would lead you to believe. Have fun!

[sailinglisa]

Sure hope your infant behaves as well on the ship as he does at home....otherwise be prepared for pounding on the stateroom walls and complaints from others. Just in case your little darling isn't as happy on the ship as he is at home....what are you willing to do so passengers in the cabins around you can have some peace? After all, it is their vacation too! I can tell you, one night max is what you would get if you and your screaming infant were next to my cabin and you disturbed me. After that, it is security and the purser's desk!