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Cbo update: Uk booking issues


Bill Leiber

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We have booked shore excursions online for our Far East Cruise and would also like to know if we should have been given them at 50%. we have paid the full price.

 

Hilary

 

I am positive this promotion for 50% off Land Discoveries is for Europe 2011 (at least on Quest). The reason that I know this is that on Quest it starts the day that I disembark on May 6.

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Hello UK Azamara Followers:

I hope your weather is improving and that in spite of it you’re able to enjoy the holiday season. I want to thank you for your patience as I gather more confirmed information for you.

Here is more detailed information about the 50% Land Discoveries Savings (LDS) which is available worldwide; however, there are specific terms and conditions which apply to this program:

  • LDS is valid for full fare (including 2-for-1 fares) bookings for 2011 sailings as of April 4, 2011 (Azamara Journey) and May 6, 2011 (Azamara Quest) through all 2012 sailings.
  • (That means that the savings are not available for the Caribbean and Asia during the first quarter of 2011.)
  • LDS offers 50% savings on most Azamara Land Discoveries; but excludes overland tours, special ticketed events such as the Monaco Grand Prix, Rio Carnival, concerts and other ticketed performances.
  • LDS is only available for shore excursions booked prior to the sail date and is not available once onboard the ship.
  • LDS can be pre-booked online only. AzamaraClubCruises.com
  • Once guests have made at least one payment toward their voyage, Land Discoveries tours can be booked on AzamaraClubCruises.com beginning approximately four months prior to sailing. Booking number, ship name and sail date are required to book online.
  • TIME LIMIT- Online bookings of Land Discoveries can be made up until 4 days prior to sailing date. If you are within the 4 days, you will then need to purchase your shore excursions on board the ship at the full price.
  • LDS reservations accepted on a first come, first served basis, and are subject to availability.
  • LDS applies to Azamara Club Cruises Land Discoveries (shore excursions) program, and excludes private arrangements.
  • LDS is not available for chartered voyages.
  • Cancellation penalties apply to Land Discoveries reservations cancelled less than 24 hours prior to day of shore excursion

Based on information from Marketing, here is how to find “Land Discovery Savings” on our website:

  • Go to the "Shore Excursions" tab, however, the 50% pricing and the eligible tours (starting April 4/Journey and May 6/Quest) are not live yet. We are waiting for the live date, which is anticipated in mid-January.
  • Yes, ‘Land Discovery’ is a proprietary name for ‘shore excursions.’
  • The pricing for the Land Discovery excursion that is eligible for the saving will show the full price, but there will be a pop-up note stating that at time of booking, 50% savings will be deducted at time of booking the excursion.
  • Finally, upon booking this eligible excursion, the price shown will be the 50% reduced price, and there will be a pop-up noting that this is the 50% savings price.

Unresolved UK Issues:

I’ve been communicating with the Azamara team in the UK; however, I do not yet have the official policies for the following:

  • Air: Good news - the UK has increased the Free Air promo beyond Heathrow to Glasgow and Manchester – but I do not have the specific terms and conditions. I cannot comment on the booking seats issue.
  • UK guest transferring from one voyage to another – is there a fee? If so, what is the amount?
  • On-Board booking – does the open package and Friends & Family certificate apply to the UK guest?

I will get back to you with the final response which might take a little longer due to the holiday schedule of some of our staff.

Why are some markets excluded from offers available in other markets?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, “generally, the goal is to be consistent across markets with our merchandising strategies (ongoing published programs); however, my caveat to you is that there will always be differences among the worldwide markets because of the need for tactical promotions to be introduced into specific markets to boost sales on specific voyages.

 

“One of the benefits of being part of the Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd family is to be able to sell locally with the support of local teams in many markets around the world. Also, as part of a publically held company, we have a responsibility to our shareholders to meet and exceed our revenue goals and to leverage the resource advantages of being part of the corporation. Therefore, I do not want to imply or create the conclusion that all promotions will apply worldwide or to disappoint you when new tactical promotions are introduced. We realize the challenge that the internet creates by bringing complete transparency so that each market is aware of all the worldwide offers and we will include detailed disclaimers to minimize its impact. It’s a delicate balance - but our primary mission is to exceed our guests’ expectations profitably.”

Again, my warmest wishes for a wonderful Christmas and a healthy and Azamazing New Year -

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

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Thanks Bill

Delighted to hear Glasgow is now included - and that comes from someone from Edinburgh! (old Scottish inter city rivallry) We know though why it is Glasgow you can ticket from Glasgow in a different way so we often force ourselves that 50 miles west to make the savings :)

Ann

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Are you sure the Elite perk of one change for free applies to Azamara and not just to Celebrity as certainly the UK office are not aware of it.
- yes the UK office have confirmed to me that the waiver of the first £75pp transfer fee applies to ACC too.

 

There is also definitely a free air promotion on in the UK at the moment too - ends 31Dec. It appears to be on over 30 European cruises sailing between 4 April and 17 Nov. If you want the list I can see if I can copy it in somehow.

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Thanks Albert. The waiver of the first £75 is good to know and wished we had known earlier so that we could have made an board booking and then changed it. As previously stated the UK office informed us that there would be a £75 pp charge for any amendment. We are aware of the current free European Air offer but are actually looking for a Caribbean or Asia offer for early 2011 and there are apparently no UK offers for these cruises.

 

Thanks also to Bill for his confirmation that this is being looked into at present and we hope that we may have some new offers in early 2011.

 

Best Wishes to you all for Christmas and the New Year

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  • 1 month later...

Hello UK Azamara Followers:

 

I am pleased to provide you with the final information that I have received from the UK management team in London about the following outstanding UK and Ireland issues:

 

Free Air Promotion

The UK has added two additional gateways to London-Heathrow for this free air promotion – Manchester and Glasgow International which should offer a broader regional coverage and make it more convenient to vacation with us. A mandatory pre and/or post night stay will be required in the embarkation and/or disembarkation point of the selected voyage. Transfers to and from the airport are also included.

 

Seat Assignments

Azamara Club Cruises is unable to pre-book your seat assignments. We recognize how important this issue is to all of you and we are disappointed that we cannot provide you this service. In order to pre-book your seats, please contact your travel professional or the operating Airline directly who will then be able to assist you. There may be occasions when the Airline is unable to fulfill your request (such as if you are traveling as part of a group with a “block” of seats allocated or on a low-cost carrier) but the airline will be able to advise whether or not they can provide that service. For your information, this current seat assignment policy applies to all three Royal Caribbean brands.

 

UK guest booking transfer fee

The standard policy in the UK and Ireland is that a booking transfer is classified as a major change and a £75/person fee is applied to the 1st and 2nd guests on the booking. This policy is stated in the UK brochure’s terms and conditions. This fee is levied when guests change their brand, ship and/or sail date regardless of the price or inventory on the original booking increasing or decreasing in value or class. This policy applies to changes made outside of 56 days prior to sailing.

 

Major changes made inside of 56 days will be subject to applicable cancellation penalties as per the most current edition of the Azamara Club Cruises brochure (which will be at least loss of deposit which is £150/person in the UK market and it will be applied to all guests on the booking, not just the 1st and 2nd guests).

 

Azamara Passages Onboard Booking Program

Any guest onboard an Azamara Club Cruise voyage and make their next reservation while onboard and obtain these benefits: 1) a reduced deposit, and 2) an onboard booking savings. This program applies to guests of all nationalities. Further - the onboard booking savings is combinable with almost all Azamara promotions; however, it is not combinable with more than two other OBC and cash-off offers.

 

The Open Passage option at this time is not offered in the UK. It is available only to guests residing in the United States and Canada; however, preparation is underway to provide this program to UK guests. Although I cannot provide you with the exact date when the process changes will completed, we do have plans to make this available to the UK cruise market and as soon as more information we will be advising both our trade partners and our valued guests.

 

Additional Comment

To those who have posted about an incorrect transmittal letter with their Azamara brochure I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I spoke with the Management team in the UK they sincerely apologize for the error and any confusion this may have caused. The brochure now has the new 2011/12 itineraries and pricing and the letters have been updated to reflect the latest UK news and offers as shown below:

 

Important UK Offer

Book before the 31st March 2011 and you can save up to £200 per stateroom* and free flights* on selected 2011/12 sailings. Please contact our Personal Cruise Specialist on 0844 493 6009, or your travel agent. Also, visit http://www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk where you can find the latest special offers online.

(* Specific restrictions and terms and conditions apply – see website for details.)

 

If you have additional questions about the programs above, please contact your travel agent or a UK Personal Cruise Specialist at the addresses shown above.

 

I thank you for your patience during the process while this information was reviewed and discussed by our London management and approved for posting.

 

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

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Bill, thank you for your progress report. Please include Australia as we too have the same issues as UK.

 

Have been told by your Sydney office that the b2b discount does not apply here (we are booked for June next year).

 

I think you have a growing market from this part of the world and any little perks/discounts would make Azamara all the more attractive.

Bill, just an update from this part of the world. I have just been advised that I will be receiving the b2b discount. So, many thanks as I had quoted your info (in post #1) and it seems to have worked. Have also booked land tours with the 50% saving - all good and looking forward to our June cruise.

 

Vera

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Hello UK Azamara Followers:

 

I am pleased to provide you with the final information that I have received from the UK management team in London about the following outstanding UK and Ireland issues:

 

Free Air Promotion

The UK has added two additional gateways to London-Heathrow for this free air promotion – Manchester and Glasgow International which should offer a broader regional coverage and make it more convenient to vacation with us. A mandatory pre and/or post night stay will be required in the embarkation and/or disembarkation point of the selected voyage. Transfers to and from the airport are also included.

 

Seat Assignments

Azamara Club Cruises is unable to pre-book your seat assignments. We recognize how important this issue is to all of you and we are disappointed that we cannot provide you this service. In order to pre-book your seats, please contact your travel professional or the operating Airline directly who will then be able to assist you. There may be occasions when the Airline is unable to fulfill your request (such as if you are traveling as part of a group with a “block” of seats allocated or on a low-cost carrier) but the airline will be able to advise whether or not they can provide that service. For your information, this current seat assignment policy applies to all three Royal Caribbean brands.

 

UK guest booking transfer fee

The standard policy in the UK and Ireland is that a booking transfer is classified as a major change and a £75/person fee is applied to the 1st and 2nd guests on the booking. This policy is stated in the UK brochure’s terms and conditions. This fee is levied when guests change their brand, ship and/or sail date regardless of the price or inventory on the original booking increasing or decreasing in value or class. This policy applies to changes made outside of 56 days prior to sailing.

 

Major changes made inside of 56 days will be subject to applicable cancellation penalties as per the most current edition of the Azamara Club Cruises brochure (which will be at least loss of deposit which is £150/person in the UK market and it will be applied to all guests on the booking, not just the 1st and 2nd guests).

 

Azamara Passages Onboard Booking Program

Any guest onboard an Azamara Club Cruise voyage and make their next reservation while onboard and obtain these benefits: 1) a reduced deposit, and 2) an onboard booking savings. This program applies to guests of all nationalities. Further - the onboard booking savings is combinable with almost all Azamara promotions; however, it is not combinable with more than two other OBC and cash-off offers.

 

The Open Passage option at this time is not offered in the UK. It is available only to guests residing in the United States and Canada; however, preparation is underway to provide this program to UK guests. Although I cannot provide you with the exact date when the process changes will completed, we do have plans to make this available to the UK cruise market and as soon as more information we will be advising both our trade partners and our valued guests.

 

Additional Comment

To those who have posted about an incorrect transmittal letter with their Azamara brochure I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I spoke with the Management team in the UK they sincerely apologize for the error and any confusion this may have caused. The brochure now has the new 2011/12 itineraries and pricing and the letters have been updated to reflect the latest UK news and offers as shown below:

 

Important UK Offer

Book before the 31st March 2011 and you can save up to £200 per stateroom* and free flights* on selected 2011/12 sailings. Please contact our Personal Cruise Specialist on 0844 493 6009, or your travel agent. Also, visit http://www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk where you can find the latest special offers online.

(* Specific restrictions and terms and conditions apply – see website for details.)

 

If you have additional questions about the programs above, please contact your travel agent or a UK Personal Cruise Specialist at the addresses shown above.

 

I thank you for your patience during the process while this information was reviewed and discussed by our London management and approved for posting.

 

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

 

Thank you Bill for this reply.

 

Transfer of Booking

 

I note what you say about the £75 charge but as an Elite member I understand that the £75 fee is waived for the first change. Albert Ross has had it confirmed by the UK Office that this also applies to Azamara as well as Celebrity. Will it still continue to apply to Azamara?

 

Open Bookings

 

Thank you for your confirmation that this is being looked into for UK Guests. However, I cannot understand why this should be such a complicated matter.

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Hello grayjoh and abbafan –

 

Please let me check out this new piece of information about waiving the first transfer fee with the UK management, who had reviewed all the information before I posted this document. It makes good sense to officially verify this exception to policy. I’ll reply as soon as I can.

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

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Hello UK Azamara Followers:

 

I am pleased to provide you with the final information that I have received from the UK management team in London about the following outstanding UK and Ireland issues:

 

Free Air Promotion

The UK has added two additional gateways to London-Heathrow for this free air promotion – Manchester and Glasgow International which should offer a broader regional coverage and make it more convenient to vacation with us. A mandatory pre and/or post night stay will be required in the embarkation and/or disembarkation point of the selected voyage. Transfers to and from the airport are also included.

 

Seat Assignments

Azamara Club Cruises is unable to pre-book your seat assignments. We recognize how important this issue is to all of you and we are disappointed that we cannot provide you this service. In order to pre-book your seats, please contact your travel professional or the operating Airline directly who will then be able to assist you. There may be occasions when the Airline is unable to fulfill your request (such as if you are traveling as part of a group with a “block” of seats allocated or on a low-cost carrier) but the airline will be able to advise whether or not they can provide that service. For your information, this current seat assignment policy applies to all three Royal Caribbean brands.

 

UK guest booking transfer fee

The standard policy in the UK and Ireland is that a booking transfer is classified as a major change and a £75/person fee is applied to the 1st and 2nd guests on the booking. This policy is stated in the UK brochure’s terms and conditions. This fee is levied when guests change their brand, ship and/or sail date regardless of the price or inventory on the original booking increasing or decreasing in value or class. This policy applies to changes made outside of 56 days prior to sailing.

 

Major changes made inside of 56 days will be subject to applicable cancellation penalties as per the most current edition of the Azamara Club Cruises brochure (which will be at least loss of deposit which is £150/person in the UK market and it will be applied to all guests on the booking, not just the 1st and 2nd guests).

 

Azamara Passages Onboard Booking Program

Any guest onboard an Azamara Club Cruise voyage and make their next reservation while onboard and obtain these benefits: 1) a reduced deposit, and 2) an onboard booking savings. This program applies to guests of all nationalities. Further - the onboard booking savings is combinable with almost all Azamara promotions; however, it is not combinable with more than two other OBC and cash-off offers.

 

The Open Passage option at this time is not offered in the UK. It is available only to guests residing in the United States and Canada; however, preparation is underway to provide this program to UK guests. Although I cannot provide you with the exact date when the process changes will completed, we do have plans to make this available to the UK cruise market and as soon as more information we will be advising both our trade partners and our valued guests.

 

Additional Comment

To those who have posted about an incorrect transmittal letter with their Azamara brochure I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I spoke with the Management team in the UK they sincerely apologize for the error and any confusion this may have caused. The brochure now has the new 2011/12 itineraries and pricing and the letters have been updated to reflect the latest UK news and offers as shown below:

 

Important UK Offer

Book before the 31st March 2011 and you can save up to £200 per stateroom* and free flights* on selected 2011/12 sailings. Please contact our Personal Cruise Specialist on 0844 493 6009, or your travel agent. Also, visit www.azamaraclubcruises.co.uk where you can find the latest special offers online.

(* Specific restrictions and terms and conditions apply – see website for details.)

 

If you have additional questions about the programs above, please contact your travel agent or a UK Personal Cruise Specialist at the addresses shown above.

 

I thank you for your patience during the process while this information was reviewed and discussed by our London management and approved for posting.

 

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

 

I recently enquired about the advertised special of early booking savings and flight credits, with little hope of the latter, but hoping for the former. My TA made enquiries on my behalf and was told this does not apply to Australia.

 

I realise that the Australian market may not be big enough for flight benefits, but as we generally fly further and at greater cost to most destinations, it would be nice for someone to give us more consideration. It would also be nice to have access to specials available to other markets, which would no doubt improve the brand's popularity in Australia. Of course, this may be a not so subtle mechanism to deter Australians from booking!

 

I queried the fixed Australian dollar fare with Azamara's local representative as the Australian dollar has gained some 20% in value relative to the US and had a response indicating that the rates were fixed a long way out. I find this somewhat patronising as I very much doubt that we would have benefitted if the Australian dollar had fallen 20% as the fares are already higher for Australians.

 

Please Bill could you address this issue.

 

Many thanks,

 

Sue

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Being Canadian, we have run into the foreign exchange situation as well. Back in 2009 I was looking at about 4 different X itineraries and when I worked out the ForEx rate it was wildly different on each cruise. After numerous calls, one X rep spent the time to work with me as she actually did not understand what I was talking about. She told that when quoting rates in CND she just put in a dummy Postal Code and the CND rates came up. I showed her how to calculate the actual rate and then we went through a few other itineraries calculating the ForEx rates and she was astounded. At that point I was immediately given Ms Nuno's number to call. She asked me to send her an email with examples as she was unaware of the variations as well, and after some research she sent the following reply. In a nut shell, the rates are usually set at the prevailing rate when the itinerary is rolled out. Although it is confusing, I thought it made sense as they would have to hedge the rate sometimes 2 years out. Maybe some business heads can explain it for us:D

 

Good Afternoon!

 

Attached you will find the answer you were looking for.

 

The different exchange rates vary depending on when the price program was created. So for example, if the price program was created last week, it would have an market exchange rate from last week, and the rate could be different then if the price program was created when deployment opened. The different exchange rates exist because the price programs on those sailing's were all created at different times of the year. If all these price programs on the sailing's in question were created within the same week, then they would all have the same exchange rate.

 

If you have any questions or concerns don't hesitate to contact me.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Adriana Nuno

Supervisor, Sales Administration Dept

Azamara

Celebrity Cruises

Royal Caribbean Int'l

 

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Thank you for your input, Christine Frances.

 

Again, that makes a weird kind of sense, but doesn't deal with the issues of wide variations in the foreign exchange rates, just explains how they occur.

 

And for us Australians, as we are excluded from so many 'specials', including those relating to air travel, it does seem like a major disincentive to embark on all but local cruises in the Pacific area.

 

Many members of the Azamara board make much of small changes that personally affect them, and I can understand they develop a sense of entitlement as frequent cruisers, but they do not suffer from the difficulties we experience, and give little support to our cause, so once again thank you for your added voice.

 

Cheers,

 

Sue

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Hello grayjoh and abbafan –

 

Please let me check out this new piece of information about waiving the first transfer fee with the UK management, who had reviewed all the information before I posted this document. It makes good sense to officially verify this exception to policy. I’ll reply as soon as I can.

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

UPDATE: Policy Clarification - UK guest booking transfer fee waiver

 

If you’ve achieved the top level in any of the guest loyalty programs offered by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd three brands you are eligible for the waiver of the £75/person change fee for your first change.

 

The UK management decided to extend the reciprocal benefit to all Azamara Club Cruise’s guests at the top tier (“Discoverer”) as they currently do for both Celebrity Cruises/Captain’s Club “Elite” and RCI’s “Diamond Plus.”

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

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Thank you for your input, Christine Frances.

 

Again, that makes a weird kind of sense, but doesn't deal with the issues of wide variations in the foreign exchange rates, just explains how they occur.

 

And for us Australians, as we are excluded from so many 'specials', including those relating to air travel, it does seem like a major disincentive to embark on all but local cruises in the Pacific area.

 

Many members of the Azamara board make much of small changes that personally affect them, and I can understand they develop a sense of entitlement as frequent cruisers, but they do not suffer from the difficulties we experience, and give little support to our cause, so once again thank you for your added voice.

 

Cheers,

 

Sue

Hello Sue,

 

All of us in the U.S. are very aware of Australia right now and the challenges which you face as a nation from Cyclone Yasi and the economic impact from the floods. We wish you a speedy recovery from Mother Nature.

 

Our President and CEO, Larry Pimentel, when he was in the UK last week addressing the media mentioned that after the UK, Australia was “the fastest growing market citing a rise of 233% this year on the back of a 200% plus rise in 2011. … We are definitely a non-US centric product.”

 

Clearly Australia is an important market for our continued success. I will pass on your issues about our policies to our executive staff in Miami and discuss it with them during our conference calls. I would appreciate your patience as we work through your concerns with Miami and the Australian management team.

 

For the record, I want to reiterate important information about our worldwide selling strategy which I had shared with UK guests when they questioned why some markets are excluded from offers available in other markets.

 

“Generally, the goal is to be consistent across markets with our merchandising strategies (ongoing published programs) and will make a best effort to do so; however, my caveat to you is that there will always be differences among the worldwide markets because of the need for tactical promotions to be introduced into specific markets to boost sales on specific voyages. One of the benefits of being part of the Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd family is to be able to sell locally with the support of local teams in many markets around the world who have a “hands-on” understanding of local selling norms and business practices. Also, as part of a publically held company, we have a responsibility to our shareholders to meet and exceed our revenue goals and if necessary, to leverage the resource advantages of being part of the corporation. Therefore, I do not want to imply or create the conclusion that all promotions will apply worldwide or to disappoint you when new tactical market-specific promotions are introduced. We realize the challenge that the internet creates by bringing complete transparency so that each market is aware of all the worldwide offers and we will include detailed disclaimers to minimize its impact. It’s a delicate balance - but our primary mission is to exceed our guests’ expectations profitably.”

 

As soon as the Australian team makes progress with sorting through the issues, I’ll let you know through a new Cruise Critic discussion thread.

 

In the meantime, thank you for expressing your concerns, your loyalty to Azamara, and your desire to vacation with us again and again.

 

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

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Many thanks for your response, Bill.

 

After my recent posts I felt I was in danger of becoming a 'whinger' (constant complainer) when that was not my intention; rather I was trying to draw attention to what appeared to be anomalies. Thank you for taking me seriously.

 

Those figures show that Australians appreciate quality, and I look forward to the outcome of your further investigations.

 

Thank you too for your sensitivity to the issues Australians, and particularly Queenslanders, face following floods and now the devastation of cyclone Yasi. Considering the damage it is some comfort that so far there appears to be little loss of life.

 

Again many thanks,

 

Sue

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UPDATE: Policy Clarification - UK guest booking transfer fee waiver

 

If you’ve achieved the top level in any of the guest loyalty programs offered by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd three brands you are eligible for the waiver of the £75/person change fee for your first change.

 

The UK management decided to extend the reciprocal benefit to all Azamara Club Cruise’s guests at the top tier (“Discoverer”) as they currently do for both Celebrity Cruises/Captain’s Club “Elite” and RCI’s “Diamond Plus.”

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

 

Thank you Bill. This is now perfectly clear.

 

Grayjoh

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  • 2 months later...
Are these 50% discounts available to US residents? I'm sailing on JR 07/21/11 and would love to pay less for shorex in St. Petersburg!

 

What date did you book your cruise? Did you book direct or through an outside travel agent?

 

This is the thread regarding the 50% Shore Excursions discount promotion.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1397821

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