Question for Bill (Re: Miami/Caribbean Sailings)

[geocruiser]

Hi Bil,l

 

I have noticed that the Caribbean cruise 2/27/11 from Miami is sold out. And the other cruises from Miami are selling well according to Azamara's web site. They seem to have found their market in Florida. Next winter season Azamara is moving their ship to P.R. I for one will not fly to catch a cruise ship. How does Azamara feel the market will be in P.R. with shorter cruises being offered? Azamara seems to get settled in and then moves. Will they be loosing their base of PAX by moving? Will they come back?

 

 

 

Maria

[surfklutz]

Even though I am not Bill, I will chime in. I understand that people really dislike flying to a port to catch a cruise. But leaving from Florida is not really ideal. You have to go through "iffy" waters to get to mediocre ports. You get so much more for your money if you are willing to leave from a port deeper in the Caribbean. It is hard to offer something that isn't ideal if you know that there is a better wayl Sometimes convincing your client is an entirely different thing.

[geocruiser]

Even though I am not Bill, I will chime in. I understand that people really dislike flying to a port to catch a cruise. But leaving from Florida is not really ideal. You have to go through "iffy" waters to get to mediocre ports. You get so much more for your money if you are willing to leave from a port deeper in the Caribbean. It is hard to offer something that isn't ideal if you know that there is a better wayl Sometimes convincing your client is an entirely different thing.

 

What ideal ports would you go to?

 

Maria

[Andy]

Hi Everyone !

 

This should make for an interesting discussion ! Until a few weeks ago, I resigned myself to the fact that Azamara was not returning to Miami. However, when I took a look at the minimal availability for the remaining Caribbean sailings this season, it became clear to me, that due to the surge in bookings, Azamara should take a second look at Miami.

 

Geocruiser (Maria) made some great points, most of which I've previously and respectfully pointed out to Azamara. Journey is sailing at or near capacity this season. If they leave Miami, they run the risk of losing past Guests to their competition. Lastly, the US economy seems to be in an upswing, which should be quite benefical for Miami sailings. For those reasons, I strongly feel that Azamara should re-visit this issue. While I agree with most of what Azamara is doing, this is one area we disagree on.

 

As Azamara is currently offering 12 night sailings from Miami, there's plenty of time to visit many beautiful islands. Take a look at their Caribbean itineraries this season, I doubt you could ask for a much better itinerary.

 

For those who think San Juan is a better solution, think again. Most folks do not wish to spend the extra $$$ on airfare, and extra travel time. Further, Azamara is planning to offer 5 & 7 night sailings from San Juan... so in essence, the ports aren't going to be any better than a 12 night sailing from Miami. Besides, if most Cruise lines are having difficulty selling 7 night San Juan sailings at $599pp, how is Azamara going to capture $1699pp or more ? I feel it's going to be a tough sell from San Juan.

 

I'm all for Azamara offering new destinations, but I feel that if Azamara doesn't wish to offer an entire season from Miami, they should consider offering a few Miami sailings per season. Here's my suggestion : Have the Westbound TA sail to Miami. Kick the season off by offering a 10 night Caribbean sailing and a 4 night sailing. I'm sure some may ask - why a 4 night sailing ? Easy. Give prospective Guests an opportunity to sample Azamara for a few days. Call it "A Taste of Azamara". I feel that once they try Azamara, they will be back for more. Moving on... after the Miami sailings, head to South America for a few months, then back to Miami for a couple of 10-12 night Caribbean sailings. The Season ends with the Eastbound TA from Miami. I feel that's a solid compromise.

 

Let's hope Azamara's Management team will give Miami some further consideration. There's plenty of time to make changes. If you like my idea, please let Azamara know.

[shoesonfire]

Hi Host Andy:

 

As usual your comments are excellent, courteous, and right on the money. Most travelers will agree with you. As Azamara caters to a more mature cruiser, traveling by air long distances with tight seating is a turnoff. Also, those who are younger, and with less leisure or vacation time would be interested in the shorter or Taste of Azamara cruises. In addition, why should Miami always be the departing port? Perhaps the schedule could be extended to include New York with itineraries up to New England and Canada. Just a few thoughts from someone else who has been spoiled by Azamara and doesn't wish to cruise on the "big" ships.

 

Jan

[Andy]

Hi Host Andy:

 

As usual your comments are excellent, courteous, and right on the money. Most travelers will agree with you. As Azamara caters to a more mature cruiser, traveling by air long distances with tight seating is a turnoff. Also, those who are younger, and with less leisure or vacation time would be interested in the shorter or Taste of Azamara cruises. In addition, why should Miami always be the departing port? Perhaps the schedule could be extended to include New York with itineraries up to New England and Canada. Just a few thoughts from someone else who has been spoiled by Azamara and doesn't wish to cruise on the "big" ships.

 

Jan

 

Hi Jan !

 

Excellent point. The only reason I did not suggest destinations such as Canada & New England in my last post, was I was trying to design an idea which would include South America, which seems to be high on Azamara's radar.

 

Of course, if South America does not live up to expectations next year, then Azamara can look in a different direction, and do the Caribbean sailings I mentioned. Instead of going South, they can head North from Miami, and visit places like Bermuda, The Eastern Seaboard, New England, and Canada. The possibilities are endless.

[geocruiser]

Hi Andy,

 

I just saw a 14 night cruise on 2/20 (Princess) round trip San Juan staring at

$898. Of course it is a differnt cruise line and not Azamara BUT The price is great. I sail Princess too and like it very much. They are different products but the price will grab lots of people.

 

Ship: Caribbean Princess

Embarkation Port: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Number of Days: 14 View Itinerary

Embarkation Date(s):

2011 - , Feb 20

Select an Embarkation Date Feb 20, 2011

Interior Oceanview Obstructed Oceanview Balcony Mini-Suite/Suite

$898.00 $958.00 $1,198.00 $1,398.00 $1,798.00

Government Fees and Taxes: $86.31 Currency: USD

 

Maria

[geocruiser]

Andy check this one out!! $349. inside. How do a cruise line match this price?

 

 

Ship: Caribbean Princess

Embarkation Port: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Number of Days: 7 View Itinerary

Embarkation Date(s):

2011 - , Feb 27

 

Interior Oceanview Obstructed Oceanview Balcony Mini-Suite/Suite

$349.00 $479.00 $599.00 $699.00 $899.00

Government Fees and Taxes: $45.76 Currency: USD

 

Taken from Princess's web site.

[Andy]

Andy check this one out!! $349. inside. How do a cruise line match this price?

 

 

Ship: Caribbean Princess

Embarkation Port: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Number of Days: 7 View Itinerary

Embarkation Date(s):

2011 - , Feb 27

 

Interior Oceanview Obstructed Oceanview Balcony Mini-Suite/Suite

$349.00 $479.00 $599.00 $699.00 $899.00

Government Fees and Taxes: $45.76 Currency: USD

 

Taken from Princess's web site.

 

Hi Maria !

 

Those prices are crazy low. As always, if you price it low enough, you will fill the ship.... but the question is, are they making any $$$ @ 349 ? I highly doubt it. That's probably one of the reasons why Celebrity pulled 1 of their 2 ships from San Juan next Winter. Millennium, which homeported in San Juan for years, is moving to Miami next Winter.

[geocruiser]

Hi Maria !

 

Those prices are crazy low. As always, if you price it low enough, you will fill the ship.... but the question is, are they making any $$$ @ 349 ? I highly doubt it. That's probably one of the reasons why Celebrity pulled 1 of their 2 ships from San Juan next Winter. Millennium, which homeported in San Juan for years, is moving to Miami next Winter.

 

I agree there is no money to be made at that price. At least they get the port taxes paided and they may break even? I also saw a Celebrity ship from San Juan for $449. in Feb. I see San Juan as a hard sell. Azamara seems to be just getting in to the market in Miami. Their product is great and I feel they may be pulling some PAX from Oceania. Azamara give people like me a chance to pay a fair price for a upsscale cruise in my backyard.

I feel like they are pulling the ocean out from underneath their ship by leaving Miami. It took a while for them to get to where they are now and now they want to start all over again. While it is true that mostly main stream cruise lines leave from San Juan. They might feel that Azamara will pick up the luxury cruise PAX from this port. But I don't think so. People ar people and for the north american PAX it is a longer flight, more money and for people like me I will not fly to the port. Unless you live in P.R. you can not drive to the port.

 

Maria

 

Maria

[KENANDPAT]

Being from Canada we always have to fly to get a cruise. However I will not fly to San Juan either. It's already a long enough day to get from Halifax to Florida. I would like to try Azamara again after this cruise but will skip the Caribbean if they aren't going out of an FL port.

[palamoh]

DITTO with everyone on this issue. I have traveled to San Juan in the past, won't do it again. It adds additional costs and if you need an overnight there, it is twice the cost of a Miami overnight, plus you usually need a cab to get to the Dock. Can't for the love of money understand their thinking here. Oceania has 9 different Miami Salings on their new ship the "Marina" from late Dec 2011 through Mar 7th 2012 all 10 and 12 day sailings. Azamara looks like they are letting their major competition run them out of the Miami market. Too Bad. By the way Oceania's pricing for these cruises is very good.

[hapicruisin]

DITTO with everyone on this issue. I have traveled to San Juan in the past, won't do it again. It adds additional costs and if you need an overnight there, it is twice the cost of a Miami overnight, plus you usually need a cab to get to the Dock. Can't for the love of money understand their thinking here. Oceania has 9 different Miami Salings on their new ship the "Marina" from late Dec 2011 through Mar 7th 2012 all 10 and 12 day sailings. Azamara looks like they are letting their major competition run them out of the Miami market. Too Bad. By the way Oceania's pricing for these cruises is very good.

 

Couldn't agree more. Was on a Celebrity M class ship having made the 2 flights from UK a few years ago and would definitely not cruise from there again. We love Azamara but not from San Juan.:mad:

[C-Bunny]

My DH and I are also not prepared to fly to San Juan. We've done it before and it's just too much added cost and travel time. We're sailing on the Journey in March (from MIAMI!), and, while we normally book our next spring cruise while on board, we will not be doing so this year.

[geocruiser]

Host Andy,

 

We thought $349. was nuts for a cruise. I just got this in an E-mail from Princess.

 

 

 

Embarkation Date Sunday, Feb 20, 2011

Interior $299.00 Obstructed $479.00

Oceanview $599.00

Balcony $699.00

Mini-Suite/Suite$899.00

 

Government Fees and Taxes: $58.73 Currency: USD

 

 

It is hard to beat that! I guess that they can sell these cruises from San Juan!

[Andy]

Host Andy,

 

We thought $349. was nuts for a cruise. I just got this in an E-mail from Princess.

 

 

 

Embarkation Date Sunday, Feb 20, 2011

Interior $299.00 Obstructed $479.00

Oceanview $599.00

Balcony $699.00

Mini-Suite/Suite$899.00

 

Government Fees and Taxes: $58.73 Currency: USD

 

 

It is hard to beat that! I guess that they can sell these cruises from San Juan!

 

Hi Geocruiser !

 

To be fair, we have to take this particular example of a $299 inside price with a grain of salt, as the sailing is 11 days from now. However, it's an excellent example of what I mentioned earlier, that ships are having difficulty filling from San Juan.

 

Only time will tell, if Azamara has made a wise decision on San Juan, but I truly hope to see an Azamara ship sailing at least a few Caribbean itineraries from Miami over the next couple of years.... though I must say, I do not believe it's very likely at the moment.

 

As I've said many times... the beauty of this is, ships are floating hotels. Any Cruise line can change itineraries if they do not sell well. We will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

[geocruiser]

Hi Geocruiser !

 

To be fair, we have to take this particular example of a $299 inside price with a grain of salt, as the sailing is 11 days from now. However, it's an excellent example of what I mentioned earlier, that ships are having difficulty filling from San Juan.

 

Only time will tell, if Azamara has made a wise decision on San Juan, but I truly hope to see an Azamara ship sailing at least a few Caribbean itineraries from Miami over the next couple of years.... though I must say, I do not believe it's very likely at the moment.

 

As I've said many times... the beauty of this is, ships are floating hotels. Any Cruise line can change itineraries if they do not sell well. We will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

 

I agree with you. It just shows that it is a hard sell from San Juan. Like you I hope Azamara will come back to Florida.

 

Maria

[Bill Leiber]

Hi Bil,l

 

I have noticed that the Caribbean cruise 2/27/11 from Miami is sold out. And the other cruises from Miami are selling well according to Azamara's web site. They seem to have found their market in Florida. Next winter season Azamara is moving their ship to P.R. I for one will not fly to catch a cruise ship. How does Azamara feel the market will be in P.R. with shorter cruises being offered? Azamara seems to get settled in and then moves. Will they be loosing their base of PAX by moving? Will they come back?

 

 

 

Maria

Hello Azamara Miami Followers:

 

Azamara is so fortunate to have earned such loyal followers as you who have taken the time and effort to express your thoughts that we consider Miami rather than San Juan as a turn-around port for our Caribbean program.

 

This is not the first time that the “why no Miami” issue has appeared on the Forum. Earlier, I shared with you that a key objective in our itinerary planning sessions was to create voyages that we believed could increase the profit potential from each operation while remaining true to our destination immersion objective and to offer worldwide cruise coverage for both vessels. We concluded that it did not make sense to compete in the Miami/Ft Lauderdale market which is dominated by unhealthy distressed-type pricing and an overwhelming number of competitive offerings. Simply stated, we made the business decision to remove ourselves from this battleground.

 

I shared your new comments with our executive management team and after their discussions, their thinking remains unchanged. From a business perspective, Miami deployments are meant for the mass market lines and for an “upmarket” product it is a struggle. The four 12-night Miami “sold-out” departures that you’re mentioning on the forum represent some of our lowest net average daily rates in spite of their higher load factor. For us, this reconfirms that the Caribbean is a price-driven market – you can sell anything if the price is low enough.

 

We recognized the inherent risk in disappointing some of you but decided to fulfill our pledge to deliver a multitude of “destination immersion” options commensurate with our brand and decided upon San Juan combined with Manaus for later in the year. We are hopeful that some of our past guests and Azamara “considerers” might find these new offerings with unique destination immersion experiences in less traveled West Indies ports (overnight in St. Bart’s) and the Amazon to be more attractive than the ease of departing from Miami.

 

At the same time, we’re not naïve to think that that San Juan will be the panacea for improving our financial results. However, with shorter voyages from San Juan we now have the opportunity to target new clientele from the US and the Canadian markets which offer sufficient air service to San Juan and then to communicate our “upmarket” onboard experience on a smaller ship and to position our message as the ultimate in value. For future deployments, we consider South America and the Amazon as a better fit to further build upon our destination immersion pillar and to improve our financial performance to our shareholders.

 

Thank you for sharing your itinerary preferences with us and for considering the rationale that I have shared with you about our itinerary planning process. We truly appreciate your loyalty to Azamara Club Cruises.

 

 

 

Bill Leiber

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

[geocruiser]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for getting back to us. I DO hope that it works out for Azamara. For us, we will not fly to get a Caribbean cruise. I will miss Azamara after our next and last cruise on her.

The are other Florida cruise ports besides Miami. Maybe in the future Azamara might try one of these.

 

"We concluded that it did not make sense to compete in the Miami/Ft Lauderdale market which is dominated by unhealthy distressed-type pricing and an overwhelming number of competitive offerings. Simply stated, we made the business decision to remove ourselves from this battleground."

 

Have you seen some of the distressed-type pricing out of San Juan? I hope that it will work out. The best to Azamara.

 

PS

If PAX don't want to fly/drive to Miami for a Azamara cruise, why would they take on the added flight time and money (flight and hotel ) to leave from San Juan?

 

Maria

[Jade13]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for getting back to us. I DO hope that it works out for Azamara. For us, we will not fly to get a Caribbean cruise. I will miss Azamara after our next and last cruise on her.

The are other Florida cruise ports besides Miami. Maybe in the future Azamara might try one of these.

 

"We concluded that it did not make sense to compete in the Miami/Ft Lauderdale market which is dominated by unhealthy distressed-type pricing and an overwhelming number of competitive offerings. Simply stated, we made the business decision to remove ourselves from this battleground."

 

I hope that it will work out. The best to Azamara.

 

Maria

 

Maria,

 

It is very simple. Azamara is not making a profit in the Caribbean.

 

Are you willing to pay $2,500 Inside and $3,600.00 for a Veranda for a 10-12 night sailing in the Caribbean without the Free Air, without the $1,000.00 OBC, and without the Fee Drinks? Azamara had to throw this all in to get the few dates they still have to sell.

 

We would only consider the Caribbean if we find a cheapie cruise, and know many that agree.

 

Azamara has the opportunity to make a profit in more exotic itineraries and locations.

[geocruiser]

Maria,

 

It is very simple. Azamara is not making a profit in the Caribbean.

 

Are you willing to pay $2,500 Inside and $3,600.00 for a Veranda for a 10-12 night sailing in the Caribbean without the Free Air, without the $1,000.00 OBC, and without the Fee Drinks? Azamara had to throw this all in to get the few dates they still have to sell.

 

We would only consider the Caribbean if we find a cheapie cruise, and know many that agree.

 

Azamara has the opportunity to make a profit in more exotic itineraries and locations.

 

Are they making a profit anywhere? Those deals (if I remenber correctly) were for all their cruises. It seems that the other up scale cruise lines are making it in Fl, so I guess Azamara has to say why not then.

I would pay more for Azamara--I don't use the free air and I don't drink wine or other hard drinks or coffee. As for OBC it is nice but that would not keep me from not taking a cruise.

 

Maria

[Jade13]

Are they making a profit anywhere? Those deals (if I remenber correctly) were for all their cruises. It seems that the other up scale cruise lines are making it in Fl, so I guess Azamara has to say why not then.

I would pay more for Azamara--I don't use the free air and I don't drink wine or other hard drinks or coffee. As for OBC it is nice but that would not keep me from not taking a cruise.

 

Maria

 

I don't think so, but Azamara needs to be in markets where they can sell the cruises at higher rates. Also, no, in the US market only the Caribbean and Mexican sailing ever had "Free Air", $1,000.00 OBC, and "Drinks on Us". Azamara is not offering the same in its other itineraries. Those who have lots of OBC on other sailings mostly have it from an outside TA. The only other sailings advertising $1,000.00 OBC are the three coming up where Egypt has been canceled. Those remaining on those three cruises or booking new can have $1,000.00 OBC upon request.

[geocruiser]

I don't think so, but Azamara needs to be in markets where they can sell the cruises at higher rates. Also, no, in the US market only the Caribbean and Mexican sailing ever had "Free Air", $1,000.00 OBC, and "Drinks on Us". Azamara is not offering the same in its other itineraries. Those who have lots of OBC on other sailings mostly have it from an outside TA. The only other sailings advertising $1,000.00 OBC are the three coming up where Egypt has been canceled. Those remaining on those three cruises or booking new can have $1,000.00 OBC upon request.

 

http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/specials/promotions.do;jsessionid=0000gAuEP8ahR532rz1kV_ejduo:12odfrv1v?pagename=azamara_specials_gateway&cS=Footer

 

These look like they have air credit too! what do you think? Will it help.

 

Maria

[Jade13]

http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/specials/promotions.do;jsessionid=0000gAuEP8ahR532rz1kV_ejduo:12odfrv1v?pagename=azamara_specials_gateway&cS=Footer

 

These look like they have air credit too! what do you think? Will it help.

 

Maria

 

It will help for those who have not yet booked their air and book through Choice Air, but note, we had looked into the Singapore to Dubai cruise and the air (from the US) is very expensive at this late date. I only know this because we were looking to switch cruises (same airline), and it was about $7,000.00 to move (in coach) on top of $250.00pp in change fees. So, $1,000.00 off per person could help, but not much. That is why this offer is only on 4 sailings on Quest that are not selling. The same as the 4 Carribean sailings that have sold out with promotions.

 

Here is the differance. Azamara does not have to be in the Caribbean. Azamara DOES have to reposition it's ship (Quest) from Asia to Europe each season through the Suez Canal. So, there will likely be 1-2 cruises each year going that route that get discounted unless the ports are so unique that the itinerary is a sell out.

[geocruiser]

Jade13,

 

Thats a lot of mony to change a cruise.

beside the Quest, Journey has seven European Voyages with discounts.

 

Do you recall the sale with $1,500 OBC. Was that for all their cruises?

 

Maria