The Great UK Latitudes Swindle

[Cruisin'cockney]

I posted this on another thread but think it deserves one of it's own.

 

Discovered today that the OBC reward provided to Latitudes members migrating from Bronze to Silver to Gold is not available for UK/non-US PAX.

 

Email from NCL:

 

Thankyou for your email. Unfortunately, this offer is only applicable to US guests. We are sorry for the confusion and are currently revising our terms and conditions to reflect this.

 

As a soon to be Gold member this 2nd class service to a loyal NCL customer is more than a little anoying. IMHO we already get an inferior service to US guests (cannot access US websites for cheaper fares etc) and now this has added to my annoyance. :mad:

 

It's getting difficult to stay loyal.

[sparks1093]

I posted this on another thread but think it deserves one of it's own.

 

Discovered today that the OBC reward provided to Latitudes members migrating from Bronze to Silver to Gold is not available for UK/non-US PAX.

 

Email from NCL:

 

Thankyou for your email. Unfortunately' date=' this offer is only applicable to US guests. We are sorry for the confusion and are currently revising our terms and conditions to reflect this.[/font']

 

As a soon to be Gold member this 2nd class service to a loyal NCL customer is more than a little anoying. IMHO we already get an inferior service to US guests (cannot access US websites for cheaper fares etc) and now this has added to my annoyance. :mad:

 

It's getting difficult to stay loyal.

 

I would suspect that not being able to access the cheaper fares is related to the EU travel protection laws and it very well could be the reason for this policy as well. I think the word "swindle" is a bit of a stretch, although I do sympathize up to a point.

[Froggitt]

Also, Mr Cockerney, if a cruise goes down in price before final payment, do we get the reduction passed on if we ask, as happens with American bookings? Im booked thru a large "cruise" TA.

[Cruisin'cockney]

I would suspect that not being able to access the cheaper fares is related to the EU travel protection laws and it very well could be the reason for this policy as well. I think the word "swindle" is a bit of a stretch, although I do sympathize up to a point.

 

I use the term "swindle" slightly tongue in cheek in order to get attention. However we are encouraged to cruise regularly and loyalty schemes do need to be fair and equitable otherwise they lack credibility. I think they have the same problems in Australia so not sure that it is EU related. I am not necesarily blaming NCL for this as i don't know where the fault lies - I just know that it does tend to work against us.

 

Froggitt: Regarding price reductions - I don't believe that this benefit is available. However once I book a cruise at a certain price I generally accept that as the price I will pay. If I don't like the price I won't book it to start off with.

 

My main gripe is that we appear to be discriminated against when it comes to Latitudes. Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified and if a US passenger can telephone at the same time as me with the same Latitudes history as me and manages to secure a deal that I cannot access then I am going to be unhappy. :mad:

[camz]

Send a letter to NCL at their home office in Miami. This is the way to get resolutions addressed efficiently with NCL. Best of Luck! :)

[Agent999]

To the OP:

 

While I understand the reason behind your disappointment, I don't think you are going to be working toward a productive result when you use language like "Swindle" and "Scheme" just to attract attention. For many, the overblown drama will turn them away from your cause.

 

 

Just some food for thought, but a customer loyalty program (Latitudes) is designed to discriminate against one group in favor of another for no other reason other than the number of times they have been a custiomer (number of cruises). So the program you are trying to claim benefits from actually discriminates against others who may have paid the exact same as you for their cruise...except that they just don't have as many past cruises as you do.

 

You may want to consider that when you use phrases like "Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified "

[Cruisin'cockney]

To the OP:

 

While I understand the reason behind your disappointment, I don't think you are going to be working toward a productive result when you use language like "Swindle" and "Scheme" just to attract attention. For many, the overblown drama will turn them away from your cause.

 

 

Just some food for thought, but a customer loyalty program (Latitudes) is designed to discriminate against one group in favor of another for no other reason other than the number of times they have been a custiomer (number of cruises). So the program you are trying to claim benefits from actually discriminates against others who may have paid the exact same as you for their cruise...except that they just don't have as many past cruises as you do.

 

You may want to consider that when you use phrases like "Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified "

 

Scheme = bad ? Are you sure? I use the word not to suggest that NCL are "scheming" but merely to suggest that there is a loyalty scheme. An innocent comment not to be misconstrued.

 

I fully appreciate that loyalty schemes promote discrimination but this is based on a common commercial premise that loyalty deserves a reward (which some will agree with and some will not). What is not satisfactory is commercial discrimination between equally deserving individuals by an organisation based purely on nationality. If I complete 5 cruises and get nothing and you (US citizen) complete the same 5 cruises and get $100 OBC how can this be fair?

 

With regard to sending a letter - this will not work. US customer services will not deal with UK PAX! We are directed to the UK customer services in London!

[Agent999]

Scheme = bad ? Are you sure? I use the word not to suggest that NCL are "scheming" but merely to suggest that there is a loyalty scheme. An innocent comment not to be misconstrued.

 

I fully appreciate that loyalty schemes promote discrimination but this is based on a common commercial premise that loyalty deserves a reward (which some will agree with and some will not). What is not satisfactory is commercial discrimination between equally deserving individuals by an organisation based purely on nationality. If I complete 5 cruises and get nothing and you (US citizen) complete the same 5 cruises and get $100 OBC how can this be fair?

 

With regard to sending a letter - this will not work. US customer services will not deal with UK PAX! We are directed to the UK customer services in London!

 

Yes...I am sure that "Scheme" carries a negative connotation and based on your side-stepping' date=' you are very much aware of this.

 

You could have very easily just said "loyalty program", but instead you chose to use "loyalty scheme". Am I to believe that "scheme" is supposed to be taken as a positive?

 

And you also go through a lot of twists and turns trying to justify the discrimination in the loyalty program. Let me repeat your own words with the key portions highlighted:

 

Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified

 

So...which is it? The "grounds" here are the number of cruises taken, can the discrimination (loyalty rewards) be justified or not?

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

Am I to believe that "scheme" is supposed to be taken as a positive?

 

 

The word "scheme" does not carry the same conotation in the UK as it does here. In the U.K. it simply means plan or program.

[Froggitt]

Loyalty scheme is the terminology used in the UK.

 

Giving person X $100 OBC for the same cruises as person Y who gets nothing is not justifiable. In fact, person Y is likely paying UK inflated prices for the same cruises, and therefore deserves higher reward levels than person X.

[swedish weave]

Loyalty scheme is the terminology used in the UK.

 

Giving person X $100 OBC for the same cruises as person Y who gets nothing is not justifiable. In fact, person Y is likely paying UK inflated prices for the same cruises, and therefore deserves higher reward levels than person X.

 

Wouldn't you think the EU consumer protection laws have an effect on the prices and benefits ?

[Cruisin'cockney]

Yes...I am sure that "Scheme" carries a negative connotation and based on your side-stepping, you are very much aware of this.

 

You could have very easily just said "loyalty program", but instead you chose to use "loyalty scheme". Am I to believe that "scheme" is supposed to be taken as a positive?

 

And you also go through a lot of twists and turns trying to justify the discrimination in the loyalty program. Let me repeat your own words with the key portions highlighted:

 

 

Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified

 

 

So...which is it? The "grounds" here are the number of cruises taken, can the discrimination (loyalty rewards) be justified or not?

 

OK my last word on this.

 

Not sure about the US but in the UK a "scheme" is neither negative or positive. It is what it is i.e. a scheme! Collins UK dictionary definition:

 

"a plan formally adopted by a commercial enterprise or government body".

 

Regarding the discrimination point - I will withdraw the part that says "any" and replace with "certain". Those certain grounds include discrimination on national grounds for an organisation selling goods or services internationally. I would agree with their right to run a loyalty programme - I would just like it to be fairer. Am I being unfair?

 

Finally I should make it clear I am not anti-NCL. I love NCL. If NCL was a woman I would marry NCL and live very happily. As with all marriages there will be ocassional disagreements and this is one of those small tiffs that sometimes happen in any marriage. I will get over it and sail off into the sunset many more times but it doesn't mean I am wrong. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Little Stinker]

I posted this on another thread but think it deserves one of it's own.

 

Discovered today that the OBC reward provided to Latitudes members migrating from Bronze to Silver to Gold is not available for UK/non-US PAX.

 

Email from NCL:

 

Thankyou for your email. Unfortunately' date=' this offer is only applicable to US guests. We are sorry for the confusion and are currently revising our terms and conditions to reflect this.[/font']

 

As a soon to be Gold member this 2nd class service to a loyal NCL customer is more than a little anoying. IMHO we already get an inferior service to US guests (cannot access US websites for cheaper fares etc) and now this has added to my annoyance. :mad:

 

It's getting difficult to stay loyal.

 

I'm curious if this applies to my US resident wife who is a UK citizen and travels with her UK passport?

 

OP I would vote with my money and go elsewhere if there was a cruiseline I liked equally to NCL that did include UK residents in there loyalty program benefits.

 

LOL at the misinterpretation of scheme by my fellow Americans..

[Cruisin'cockney]

LOL at the misinterpretation of scheme by my fellow Americans..

 

2 nations separated by one language!

[Cruisin'cockney]

I'm curious if this applies to my US resident wife who is a UK citizen and travels with her UK passport?

 

 

If US resident then she should be on the US "program". Latitudes is not against non-US citizens provided they live in the US and can book thru' the US sales team in Miami!

[Cruisin'cockney]

Actually Mr Cockerney, you may not be able to book on ncl.com, but other US TAs will take your booking.

 

Thanks - very interesting. Might be worth trying this TA next time to quote against my usual UK TA.

 

This suggests that it is not European trade laws that cause the problems but the cruiselines themselves who prefer to push their sales function out to their international divisions and charge locally (rather than internationally) competitive prices.

 

It is still worth pointing out that a cruise booked directly with NCL in the UK (ncl.co.uk) is often more expensive than the same cruise booked through NCL in Miami (ncl.com) - sometimes considerably more expensive.

[Froggitt]

Agreed.....but I have found that difference is narrowing all the time.....not just for NCL but RCCL and others. Also beware of additional charges with the US TAs e.g. port fees.

[sparks1093]

Thanks - very interesting. Might be worth trying this TA next time to quote against my usual UK TA.

 

This suggests that it is not European trade laws that cause the problems but the cruiselines themselves who prefer to push their sales function out to their international divisions and charge locally (rather than internationally) competitive prices.

 

It is still worth pointing out that a cruise booked directly with NCL in the UK (ncl.co.uk) is often more expensive than the same cruise booked through NCL in Miami (ncl.com) - sometimes considerably more expensive.

 

Not necessarily, as I understand the EU travel protection law the person you book the travel with is liable to make you whole if something goes wrong- I find it likely that the TA in question either 1) isn't aware of the potential liability, or 2) think they are exempt from the law because they aren't located in the EU theater.

 

So if you book directly with NCL they are liable, so they insist that you book through the UK site which charges you a higher fare in order to recoup any potential losses arising from the EU protection law.

[swedish weave]

Thanks - very interesting. Might be worth trying this TA next time to quote against my usual UK TA.

 

This suggests that it is not European trade laws that cause the problems but the cruiselines themselves who prefer to push their sales function out to their international divisions and charge locally (rather than internationally) competitive prices.

 

It is still worth pointing out that a cruise booked directly with NCL in the UK (ncl.co.uk) is often more expensive than the same cruise booked through NCL in Miami (ncl.com) - sometimes considerably more expensive.

 

If you book through a US TA, would the EU consumer protection laws apply to you in the event of a change of itinerary or other changes covered by the EU laws?

[Cruisin'cockney]

Not necessarily, as I understand the EU travel protection law the person you book the travel with is liable to make you whole if something goes wrong- I find it likely that the TA in question either 1) isn't aware of the potential liability, or 2) think they are exempt from the law because they aren't located in the EU theater.

 

So if you book directly with NCL they are liable, so they insist that you book through the UK site which charges you a higher fare in order to recoup any potential losses arising from the EU protection law.

 

This may or may not be correct. Very difficult to establish the facts without extensive research.

 

None of this takes away from the fact that the current Latitudes scheme/program(me) appears to be unfair to non-US PAX.

 

NCL have a website on which they could easily explain why this is the case. They choose not to do so which only results in speculation.

[sjbdtz]

Scheme = bad ? Are you sure? I use the word not to suggest that NCL are "scheming" but merely to suggest that there is a loyalty scheme. An innocent comment not to be misconstrued.

 

I fully appreciate that loyalty schemes promote discrimination but this is based on a common commercial premise that loyalty deserves a reward (which some will agree with and some will not). What is not satisfactory is commercial discrimination between equally deserving individuals by an organisation based purely on nationality. If I complete 5 cruises and get nothing and you (US citizen) complete the same 5 cruises and get $100 OBC how can this be fair?

 

With regard to sending a letter - this will not work. US customer services will not deal with UK PAX! We are directed to the UK customer services in London!

 

Yes...I am sure that "Scheme" carries a negative connotation and based on your side-stepping' date=' you are very much aware of this.

 

You could have very easily just said "loyalty program", but instead you chose to use "loyalty scheme". Am I to believe that "scheme" is supposed to be taken as a positive?

 

And you also go through a lot of twists and turns trying to justify the discrimination in the loyalty program. Let me repeat your own words with the key portions highlighted:

 

 

Discrimination on any grounds cannot ever be justified

 

So...which is it? The "grounds" here are the number of cruises taken, can the discrimination (loyalty rewards) be justified or not?

 

 

When I started frequently doing buisiness in the UK, 'scheme' was the word I had the most fun with.

 

In North America, one who schemes is devious, as in defintion #2 here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scheme whereas in the UK, it's definition 1 which prevails, and there's no malice / deviousness associated.

[Mooder]

Thanks - very interesting. Might be worth trying this TA next time to quote against my usual UK TA.

 

This suggests that it is not European trade laws that cause the problems but the cruiselines themselves who prefer to push their sales function out to their international divisions and charge locally (rather than internationally) competitive prices.

 

It is still worth pointing out that a cruise booked directly with NCL in the UK (ncl.co.uk) is often more expensive than the same cruise booked through NCL in Miami (ncl.com) - sometimes considerably more expensive.

 

With the latitudes situation, I sympathize. But I have always assumed that the price difference is a direct result of the EU protection laws that you enjoy. And it seems only fair that you would pay more for it since we have the added expense of travel insurance. I'm now very curious what happens if you contact a US TA. ???

[Planer's Edge]

Gee, I don't remember getting anything when I went from Bronze to Silver to Gold to Platinum.

 

After 23 NCL cruises (with 4 more booked) I don't remember getting much of anything for my loyalty with the possible exception of 23 wonderful cruises.

 

PE

[aknz]

We have not received our latitudes obc either, I thought it was just because we are too far away.

 

Our first two cruises were booked with TA here in New Zealand but the last four we have booked with online TAs based in the US. I have to say there was very little service with the TA we used for the first three of these but this latest has been amazing. Nothing has been too much trouble, they've phoned me with any problems (and made sure the time difference wasn't a problem for me). In future I will probably not bother with the website I use to get a cruise quote and call these people directly.

 

It is soooo much cheaper to buy from the US, more than a thousand dollars over the two rooms we were booking. I think the DSC was included when we booked from home but insurance is separate in either case.

 

Shame about the latitudes "scheme" (We must use the word the same as the Brits because I was shocked by the criticism over what I saw as such an inoffensive word), maybe "programme", (note the spelling I would use) not being available outside of the US. Maybe it's because we are a smaller market. I get NCL US when I type it in, not the UK one.

 

This TA got me a massive OBC. I'm looking forward to trying to spend it in May.

 

We'll have a good time despite not getting the lattitudes OBC.

 

Happy cruising

[Cruisin'cockney]

We have not received our latitudes obc either, I thought it was just because we are too far away.

 

Our first two cruises were booked with TA here in New Zealand but the last four we have booked with online TAs based in the US. I have to say there was very little service with the TA we used for the first three of these but this latest has been amazing. Nothing has been too much trouble, they've phoned me with any problems (and made sure the time difference wasn't a problem for me). In future I will probably not bother with the website I use to get a cruise quote and call these people directly.

 

It is soooo much cheaper to buy from the US, more than a thousand dollars over the two rooms we were booking. I think the DSC was included when we booked from home but insurance is separate in either case.

 

Shame about the latitudes "scheme" (We must use the word the same as the Brits because I was shocked by the criticism over what I saw as such an inoffensive word), maybe "programme", (note the spelling I would use) not being available outside of the US. Maybe it's because we are a smaller market. I get NCL US when I type it in, not the UK one.

 

This TA got me a massive OBC. I'm looking forward to trying to spend it in May.

 

We'll have a good time despite not getting the lattitudes OBC.

 

Happy cruising

 

Thank you to my Kiwi cousin for the this input. My brother lives in NZ (Tauranga) and has the same experience. The size of the diference in pricing can be remarkable as outlined in AKNZ's post. This cannot just be down to Euro laws. I agree that Latitudes is a minor issue but it is symptomatic of the "two speed" market in operation.

 

Oh and by the way. In response to Mooders post - we have to buy insurance as well and if travelling to the US premiums are loaded beyond those that would apply to European trips. :eek: