Self Defense on a Ship

[Name Of The Game]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

[tonit964]

We were on the Spirit a couple of years ago and my DH and I were sitting outside the dance club, the staff was asking this really big guy for ID to get in. The guy was giving him a hard time, he sounded like he was drunk and it looked like this guy was going to hit the crew member.

 

My DH is a black belt in Judo so he got up and walked over just in case the guy tried something but he ended up walking away. My DH said that if he dedided to swing at the crew member, security wouldn't have been much help to him at that point.:eek:

[trailercruiser]

Another thread where some ineffectual drunk 18yr old swung (and missed) at a minor got me thinking.

 

If some drunk gets rowdy, and violent and needs to be dealt with immediately. What happens to the defender? Say a drunk starts shoving you, makes like he is going to harm you or a loved one, and you lay him out to prevent further problems.

 

Do you get booted off the ship as well?

The other thread was a bout a 19 year old that had a few drinks and was tipsy and the other group started talking trash to him and his 21 year old friend. The non drinking group started pushing him so he swung in self-defense and they were thrown off the ship. The non drinking group started it by pushing the tipsy 19 year old, they did not get put off the ship so theres your answer.

[mcwebber]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

Not for long.

[kyrisong1]

I work in a psychiatric hospital, and I am not allowed to carry weapons or assault a patient that is aggressive, but I do know that given the right technique a couple females can take an aggressive psychotic person to face down on the ground by changing their center of balance and controlling the fall so they don't get hurt.

I think if someone is big enough for a drunk to try and start an altercation they could probably fairly easily enlist help of a few men around them and take the drunk to the floor, face down until security can get there.

Cheers, Carole

[hankandteri]

Huh? Sunk to what? Whats sinking? Its just a question about a possible

 

So there have never been any drunks assaulting people? It happens and where booze is flowing, chances increase.

 

I don't know where you think I was considering when and HOW to beat up a fellow passenger, you are reading way to much into it. I would rather avoid the confrontation if possible.

 

BUT there are times when its not possible and I wondered how it was handled on a ship.

 

It wasn't about you, Rottweiler. The point I was trying to make, and apparently didn't, is that I won't go on a ship where there's a fair chance I'll be assaulted by a drunk or forced to defend myself against attack. I'm not worried about it because I don't think it's a problem.

 

That's what I meant by "sinking".

 

I've never seen a brawl on board a ship, although I'm sure they happen sometimes. I've seen plenty of happy and grouchy drunks on ships, though.

 

If I did see that kind of out of control behavior often enough that I had to consider what to do about it if a drunk came after me, I wouldn't worry about how to defend myself or what would happen to me if I did fight back. I'd deal with the situation and then take my next vacation where the brawling drunks weren't.

 

If Carnival turned from the Fun Ships into Fight Club, most sane people wouldn't cruise with them. It's an interesting hypothetical, but not a real issue is all I'm saying.

[Rottweiler Puppy]

The other thread was a bout a 19 year old that had a few drinks and was tipsy and the other group started talking trash to him and his 21 year old friend. The non drinking group started pushing him so he swung in self-defense and they were thrown off the ship. The non drinking group started it by pushing the tipsy 19 year old, they did not get put off the ship so theres your answer.

 

 

Thanks but thats a different thread but it inspired this one. Not sure if it answers my question as it was just what happened on that particular ship on that particular line. Well I guess it did. It means there is obviously variance between brands and situations.

[hankandteri]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

 

I'm fairly sure that Carnival's security officers are recruited from Pakistani military special forces. They are slight men as a rule, but they are tougher than they look. They're very well trained to deal with physical altercations if the need arises.

[Rottweiler Puppy]

It wasn't about you, Rottweiler. The point I was trying to make, and apparently didn't, is that I won't go on a ship where there's a fair chance I'll be assaulted by a drunk or forced to defend myself against attack. I'm not worried about it because I don't think it's a problem.

 

That's what I meant by "sinking".

 

I've never seen a brawl on board a ship, although I'm sure they happen sometimes. I've seen plenty of happy and grouchy drunks on ships, though.

 

If I did see that kind of out of control behavior often enough that I had to consider what to do about it if a drunk came after me, I wouldn't worry about how to defend myself or what would happen to me if I did fight back. I'd deal with the situation and then take my next vacation where the brawling drunks weren't.

 

If Carnival turned from the Fun Ships into Fight Club, most sane people wouldn't cruise with them. It's an interesting hypothetical, but not a real issue is all I'm saying.

 

Thanks. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

 

I don't anticipate any problems on my first Carnival Cruise coming up in a few weeks.

[Kristi Williamson]

We saw a brawl on the Dream last January. Guess what it was over....theater seats for "Dancin' in the Streets". Not kidding!

 

Some lady had saved seats. Lots of 'em. So, another couple sat down, words were exchanged and one of the guys ended up taking a swing at the other one. They went at it. It was over the top! They took them out into the hall and we never heard what happened, but supposedly they ended up fighting again once out in the hallways.

 

Sad! There were plenty of seats available at the second seating! :rolleyes:

[MissDiva1]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

 

LOL! I have to agree! The security officers we have dealt with were......well I'd rather not say:D But I think the only thing they got going for them is they have alot of back up on a ship.

[jhale]

I'm fairly sure that Carnival's security officers are recruited from Pakistani military special forces. They are slight men as a rule, but they are tougher than they look. They're very well trained to deal with physical altercations if the need arises.

 

I believe this is correct, they are ex-military.

 

I've witnessed 3 incidents in all of my 20 cruises.

 

2 in the disco, which were both stopped within seconds as there is security everywhere in there after 10pm. The other was on a Superbowl cruise and well, let's just say the guys were on opposing teams lol.

[Chris41]

LOL! I have to agree! The security officers we have dealt with were......well I'd rather not say:D But I think the only thing they got going for them is they have alot of back up on a ship.

 

 

You really should do a little looking into the background and quals for the security on the ship. I have served overseas with 6 of the different security officers that work with Carnival security and you truly would not want to mess with them. Just to give a little hint don't judge people by looks size or how quiet they are.

 

Google ghurka sometime as that where a large majority of ship security are from and if I had to have a PSD with or without weapons a couple of them is what I would want

[mom_2_one]

I work in a psychiatric hospital, and I am not allowed to carry weapons or assault a patient that is aggressive, but I do know that given the right technique a couple females can take an aggressive psychotic person to face down on the ground by changing their center of balance and controlling the fall so they don't get hurt.

I think if someone is big enough for a drunk to try and start an altercation they could probably fairly easily enlist help of a few men around them and take the drunk to the floor, face down until security can get there.

Cheers, Carole

 

 

I work at a community college and we are trained in that technique as well for any rowdy students. Boy, do they get mad, when they don't get their way. I've never had to use it as of yet, but I will know how, if and when the time comes.

 

 

 

(Oh, hey guys. I'm a cruise virgin. If things go right, I will be on the Dream in Aug of 2012)

[MissDiva1]

You really should do a little looking into the background and quals for the security on the ship. I have served overseas with 6 of the different security officers that work with Carnival security and you truly would not want to mess with them. Just to give a little hint don't judge people by looks size or how quiet they are.

 

Google ghurka sometime as that where a large majority of ship security are from and if I had to have a PSD with or without weapons a couple of them is what I would want

 

I wasn't judging them by their looks or size. I had the opportunity to work with a couple during an investigation report.;)

[DRZ]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

 

Slight build means absolutely nothing! There are 5'6'' 135lbs MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) fighters that would destroy anyone on a cruise ship in the blink of an eye.

[chrislynnet]

The other thread was a bout a 19 year old that had a few drinks and was tipsy and the other group started talking trash to him and his 21 year old friend. The non drinking group started pushing him so he swung in self-defense and they were thrown off the ship. The non drinking group started it by pushing the tipsy 19 year old, they did not get put off the ship so theres your answer.

 

I read that same thread. The ONLY "proof" we have that the non-drinking group started it is -- guess what -- from the two drunks! And this was reported by the 19-year-old drunk's irresponsible mother. I didn't believe a word she wrote.

 

And we're not talking tipsy here. Even the enabling mother admitted the young men were drunk.l

[PaulMedik]

Another thread where some ineffectual drunk 18yr old swung (and missed) at a minor got me thinking.

 

If some drunk gets rowdy, and violent and needs to be dealt with immediately. What happens to the defender? Say a drunk starts shoving you, makes like he is going to harm you or a loved one, and you lay him out to prevent further problems.

 

Do you get booted off the ship as well?

 

 

Rottweiler Puppy,

 

At work on a weekly basis and sometimes every day of work or several times during a shift, I have to deal with violent, intoxicated, under the influence, or suicidal individuals intent on escape. At work, I have no option to allow anyone to escape or act out their violent intents. On vacation, I haven't had to avoid any aggressive acts thus far, but if the situation arises I will have an exit planned in advance. I have no desire to confront anyone who is not making rational decisions.

 

The best option is to always walk away unless you have a duty bound obligation to control them either for their safety or the safety of others.

 

Self defense and or violence management doesn't involve 'laying him out.' The last person I could be said to have 'layed out' was a few months ago and I simply misjudged his weight; Baggy clothes made it seem like he was ~ 100 pounds heavier than he actually was so he did go airborn as I reacted to his attempt to run over me and escape. Even then all of the witnesses stated that he appeared to bounce off of me and jump through the air backwards. :rolleyes: My intention was to lift him from the ground then guide him to the ground in a controlled manner.

 

I have never 'taken a swing' at anyone for any reason since I was in grade school. :o The last person who connected a punch on me was an amateur Golden Gloves champion who broke my nose with a sucker punch from behind when I was in High School. He was under the influence and I wasn't aware he was even swinging as I deposited a quarter in a snack machine. A few months later I had the pleasure of suspending him upside down by his ankles and dropping his head on the floor a few times before a coach intervened. We had been paired together as tumbling partners in Gym glass which proved to be problematic for him. It's been about three decades since that incident and he's spent two stretches in prison for murder and several other stints for lesser offenses. I haven't seen him since tenth grade, but I still have a desire for some more payback even though I know he has no recollection of the initial event.

 

The last time I felt any emotion in a violent encounter was with my High School sucker punching nemesis. Since then I have remained detached in every single encounter. Given my considerable experience in defensive agression management, I'm not sure I could confront a violent individual and initiate agressive action. In other words, if they don't attack first, I'm not trained nor experienced in dealing with them.

 

I have only had to deal with two people thus far in regards to my three sons. The first individual opted to yell and threaten my oldest son when he was around nine years old for playing rough with his younger brother on a beach playground. The younger brother was tired so intead of continuing to play he opted to sit down and whimper. He was not quite seven years old at the time and it's not unusual for kids that age to be tired after a long day on the beach. My wife and I had observed the entire event and opted to stay out of it. We also observed as an adult male approached my oldest son and yelled at him and threatened him. The adult then approached my middle son and helped him to his feet and asked if he was OK. He stated that he was fine and then went to check on his older brother who was still standing where the adult had left him.

 

It was very difficult to wait fifteen minutes or so for my adrenaline to subside before speaking with the adult male. After the adrenaline was gone, I approached the man seated in his golf cart and in a calm voice I explained that my wife and I had observed the events from our golf cart a short distance away and knew what was going on. We also knew our middle son was not injured and that our older son was not at fault. I advised him that our son who he had just confronted could defend himself, but had shown great restraint in not doing so. I guess the thought of a nine year old defeating him was more than he could bare so he opted to exit the golf cart and display his ruffled feathers. I held his hand and advised him that even though it was early in the week that his vacation was over and that he should leave the campground and never let me see him again. I did have the displeasure of seeing him one more time as he was leaving later that night in the parking area of the campground store getting in his loaded vehicle while yelling and cussing his wife and children who were with him.

 

The second person I had to deal with hasn't been long enough ago to talk about publicly. He has since proven to be the most polite person my sons ever see and actively avoids them. :)

 

The point of my long winded response is that you aren't likely to be booted off the ship for defending yourself if your defense is just that; Defense. If you initiate physical contact, you are likely to go off with them and are in fact as guilty as they are. If they attack and your defense is swift and not overly aggressive in appearance, then you are likely to not even be asked what happened because it will appear to be a non event. Getting loud or using threatening gestures before, during, or after an incident will likely result in all involved getting tossed off.

 

Some people have mentioned the small stature and quiet demeanor of Carnival's security staff as being like mall security. Quiet people regardless of their size, sex, or non threatening appearance are the most dangerous people you will ever encounter. Never assume they are not capable of controlling aggression simply because you don't see them do it. In order to remain calm and quiet, you first must be confident. Confidence should never be confused with passive. If I were to choose an altercation opponent between a macho bouncer looking fellow and a small quiet Carnival security agent, I'll choose the macho bouncer every time. In either instance they will have to make the first aggressive move.

[2wallace]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

 

What is the saying? Oh, "Don't judge a book by it's cover!" I'm a 6'2", 220lb ex-Marine and would sooner do another tour in Iraq than find myself on the wrong side of Carnival Secuirty! Seen it happen, not pretty!:eek:

[Fishon28]

What is the saying? Oh, "Don't judge a book by it's cover!" I'm a 6'2", 220lb ex-Marine and would sooner do another tour in Iraq than find myself on the wrong side of Carnival Secuirty! Seen it happen, not pretty!:eek:

 

[InverStone]

How big an incident is security really equipped to handle? I don't see weapons or handcuffs on them. They're all slight built. They have a language barrier, likely underwent minimal training, and hope the worst incident they encounter is a 13-year old trying to sneak into the disco. Two 16-year olds and they'll be outmatched. :D

 

 

I know you are probably joking...

 

But on most of our cruises (majority were NCL) a large percentage of the security staff were Nepalese Ghurkhas...they are very well respected for their hand to hand combat and munitions training. They are known for security, and are most likely highly trained. The cruise ship is probably a "cushy" job for them, and enables them to make more money than they would at home. My good friend (and cruise buddy) is an RCMP officer and recognized who they were right away when we walked onto the ship. I'm 265 lbs and wouldn't mess with them haha.

 

Inver

[Rottweiler Puppy]

You really should do a little looking into the background and quals for the security on the ship. I have served overseas with 6 of the different security officers that work with Carnival security and you truly would not want to mess with them. Just to give a little hint don't judge people by looks size or how quiet they are.

 

Google ghurka sometime as that where a large majority of ship security are from and if I had to have a PSD with or without weapons a couple of them is what I would want

LOL I don't believe they have Ghurkas on board for security but that would be awesome.

 

The Taliban usually totally left areas where they knew Ghurkas were operating in. Bad (good for us and the UK) dudes for sure.

[bguppies]

LOL I don't believe they have Ghurkas on board for security but that would be awesome.

 

The Taliban usually totally left areas where they knew Ghurkas were operating in. Bad (good for us and the UK) dudes for sure.

 

Actually, they are...

 

On our Freedom cruise we had witnessed security take a big drunk guy down in like 3 seconds flat.

 

The next day in the cigar bar, I was chatting with one of the British officers and started talking about witnessing that takedown.

 

He laughed and said that a good percentage of the carnival security were Ghurkas. No problems, EVER.

I had no idea what they were so I googled it when I got home.

 

Decided I will never cause a problem on any cruise.:D

 

Bill

[kool4t6]

I work hard for my money, some fool wants to cause trouble then im not losing my money to handle business.

[Rottweiler Puppy]

Side topic sorta related--

 

Since Ghurkas were mentioned and if anyone wants to know how capable a retired Ghurka is...

 

A short while ago a train was robbed by 40 individuals. When they tried to rape a woman, a retired Ghurka took action. When he was done there were 3 dead robbers 8 more seriously wounded. The girl avoided getting raped and the robbers took off running.