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MSC Splendida - Nice Ship, Terrible Food


OneNewTexan

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.Americans and Brits make up at most only 10 to 15 percent of MSC repeat cruisers./QUOTE]

 

whilst it can't be classed as empirical research, that has certainly been my experience based on 12 cruises with them, with varying durations and location. The most native English speakers I've encountered was in the Caribbean. On TAs perhaps around 400 tops, but on European cruises it has been as low as 10! Obviously cruises departing from the UK or US have higher percentages but they make up a small percentage of all cruises.

 

There are invariably huge numbers of Italians and Germans onboard and occasionally French and Spanish too.

 

When I go to the cocktail parties for repeat cruisers, there are very few people who speak English.

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Where do you find the evidence upon which to assert that Italians, Germans, and French and most of the the other Europeans like the MSC food, either absolutely or compared to food served onboard other lines?

Where do you find the evidence to assert that Americans and Brits only make up only 10-15% of MSC repeat customers?

 

First point: I simply talk with them when I'm on an MSC cruise. ... Third point: I have no idea.

So you admit there is no reliable basis for your assertions other than some anectdotal conversations. Do you think your shmoozing with passengers is more probative than the UK Cruisers Choice poll which ranks all 11 MSC ships in the bottom 15 % of the 250 ships included in the poll.

 

whilst it can't be classed as empirical research, that has certainly been my experience based on 12 cruises with them, with varying durations and location. When I go to the cocktail parties for repeat cruisers, there are very few people who speak English.

 

Neither the fan who made the original factual assertion nor Amomondo can provide any real evidence other than unreliable anecdotal evidence to support the factual assertion that Europeans like MSC food more than they like the food on other lines. Same goes for the asssertion that the percentage of repeat MSC cruisers who are American or British is 10%.

 

We all agree you are entitled to your opinions, however you are not entitled to your own facts. No basis to make these assertions has been provided. Its more like wishful thinking argued as facts in order to counter the dismal results MSC achieves in the CC cruisers choice poll.

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I doubt it. MSC is a small part of the seond largest container ship freight line (Maersk-Nedlloyd being largest); MSC's privately-family owned. The crise line is run by one of the adult daughters of the family patriarch.

 

MSC selling the cruise division to RCI (or NCL) would have to be for 'an offer they couldn't refuse' (over the top generosity) to acquire a large Mediterranean presence. That isn't going to happen in the pesent economy; credit markets won't allow it - even if those other bigs wanted to buy. CCL already owns Costa and buying MSC would be redundant as well as probably impermissible by EEC anti-trust authorities.

 

I think MSC's weakness is that it comes from its industrial shipping heritage, having to build the hotel industry side of the business from scratch. They are doing that - and coming along reasonably well overall given the speed of growth. 'Human Resource Management' on an enormous scale is the huge challenge facing MSC. Avoiding family nepotisms (Italian style) in staffing galleys was a problem reported to me. My experience with service was generally favorable. If you think about though, the cruise division must be a bit of a 'mind blower' from a personnel (human resource) standpoint for long time MSC insiders viewing the rest of the company. MSC has some 400 container ships whose onboard crewman (in numbers) probably total about the same as the 10-12 cruise ships!! The company history is managing a mass of ship rather than masses of chefs, sous-chefs, servers, stewerds etc.

 

I seriously doubt that the family that owns MSC made the resource commitment to develop a passenger line with the corporate name on it, just to sell it.

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First point: I simply talk with them when I'm on an MSC cruise. The Germans I talked with seem to enjoy it most in particular (along with the Italians of course). Plus, there was a cruise industry magazine article I read last year that mentioned the high percentage of MSC repeaters. Second point: This was told to me by a MSC Club representative in early 2009. Also, when you attend the MSC Club cocktails on cruises you'll be rubbing elbows with loads of Italians and Germans but very few English speakers. Third point: I have no idea.

 

I agree with most of the anecdotal estimations, but I think it means little qualitatively. RCI's presence in Europe is largely via Celebrity cruises (Greek) and Pulmantour (Spanish). CCL has a variety of lines active incuding Italian oriented Costa. That said, there has been a push into Europe during the past decade by many more historically 'American' lines (as much as I dislike that designation) including RCCL, Carnival (line), NCL. There are many market-economic reasons for pushing Europe but I'm confident one big one was, "Qualitatively, we can beat these guys in the mass market! So let's commit and compete!"

 

The reason there is more European repeaters on MSC is a point Capri embodies. Primacy is incredibly important to ALL cruise lines. Pax tend to be very loyal to their first line. If the line can keep the happy first timer from trying and comparing, that is HUGE! The lines know that if they can 'train' a cruiser's expectations they can beat the competition (and probably not on objective quality). I don't think the lines really like cruisers like me... I'm open to all of them...

 

The primacy of MSC and Costa in Italy (Aida in Germany, P&O in UK) has to do with long standing TA ties, advertising exposure, historic brand recognition generally - not necessarily quality per se. In that way, I admire MSC for 'taking it to the competition' by sending ships to the low margin Caribbean. They believe in their product, and they will learn and improve as they develop internally.

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Neither the fan who made the original factual assertion nor Amomondo can provide any real evidence other than unreliable anecdotal evidence to support the factual assertion that Europeans like MSC food more than they like the food on other lines. Same goes for the asssertion that the percentage of repeat MSC cruisers who are American or British is 10%.

 

We all agree you are entitled to your opinions, however you are not entitled to your own facts. No basis to make these assertions has been provided. Its more like wishful thinking argued as facts in order to counter the dismal results MSC achieves in the CC cruisers choice poll.

 

if you care to reread my post, you will see I made no claims about food, I merely commented on the low percentage of English speakers overall. I also started by saying I had no empirical research on the matter. Unfortunately CC polls and reviews do not have a category for nationality/language of passengers. Perhaps you have some study that contradicts, my opinion that overall Brits & Americans are overall in the minority on MSC sailings.

 

When you consider out of their fleet of 11 ships only 1 sails from US ports for part of the year and likewise for the UK, with the rest of the fleet sailing from otherbcountries, is it so difficult to believe that the majority of passengers do not speak English as their first language?

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if you care to reread my post, you will see I made no claims about food, I merely commented on the low percentage of English speakers overall. I also started by saying I had no empirical research on the matter. Unfortunately CC polls and reviews do not have a category for nationality/language of passengers. Perhaps you have some study that contradicts, my opinion that overall Brits & Americans are overall in the minority on MSC sailings.

 

When you consider out of their fleet of 11 ships only 1 sails from US ports for part of the year and likewise for the UK, with the rest of the fleet sailing from otherbcountries, is it so difficult to believe that the majority of passengers do not speak English as their first language?

 

You are right with the low ratio of english speaking even in the caribbean...we sailed in feb. and we were certainly in the minority.....we loved it as the europeans were very outgoing, dressed nicely and danced all nite.....all things that we cruise for... ..i have said on previous post that the food was fine for us, no complaints but we don't cruise for food, we cruise for dancing and elegance , both of which was in abundance on the Poesia, we have 3 booked for this winter while they are in the caribe and very anxious for them.

 

I said europeans, i should have said non americans as i am sure i will be corrected , lots of non americans on board from all over the world......fantastic~~

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So you admit there is no reliable basis for your assertions other than some anectdotal conversations. Do you think your shmoozing with passengers is more probative than the UK Cruisers Choice poll which ranks all 11 MSC ships in the bottom 15 % of the 250 ships included in the poll.

 

You're claiming that the Cruisers choice poll is more reliable, so do you have any figures to show how many of those persons voting actually have sailed on MSC? Further, what is the nationality of those cruisers voting compared to the average nationality breakup of those on MSC cruises?

 

To be reliable the first figure has to be shown as signficant and representative, and the second break-up should correspond accurately to make a fairer assessment of those sailing, instead of say just cruisers who are mostly atypical of their primary target market. No cruise, or pretty much any brand or product, can be the most adored by every person across the world. One person wants formal, another wants informal. One person wants casual, another wants structure. Success comes from repeat sailings and business, which clearly MSC has.

 

Incidentally - personal experience is very reliable. It may not be definitive - but then neither is an unscientific poll. Both have biases and limitations; preferring one over another is more indicative of one's personal preferences than demonstrating anything conclusive. Forum discussions are useful for getting individual opinions on things, and hence Capricruiser's, Amomondo's and woodofpine's views are of great interest.

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I agree with most of the anecdotal estimations, but I think it means little qualitatively. RCI's presence in Europe is largely via Celebrity cruises (Greek) and Pulmantour (Spanish). CCL has a variety of lines active incuding Italian oriented Costa. That said, there has been a push into Europe during the past decade by many more historically 'American' lines (as much as I dislike that designation) including RCCL, Carnival (line), NCL. There are many market-economic reasons for pushing Europe but I'm confident one big one was, "Qualitatively, we can beat these guys in the mass market! So let's commit and compete!"

 

The reason there is more European repeaters on MSC is a point Capri embodies. Primacy is incredibly important to ALL cruise lines. Pax tend to be very loyal to their first line. If the line can keep the happy first timer from trying and comparing, that is HUGE! The lines know that if they can 'train' a cruiser's expectations they can beat the competition (and probably not on objective quality). I don't think the lines really like cruisers like me... I'm open to all of them...

 

The primacy of MSC and Costa in Italy (Aida in Germany, P&O in UK) has to do with long standing TA ties, advertising exposure, historic brand recognition generally - not necessarily quality per se. In that way, I admire MSC for 'taking it to the competition' by sending ships to the low margin Caribbean. They believe in their product, and they will learn and improve as they develop internally.

 

Very good summary and you bring some very interesting points here and it confirms that the crew onboard MSC Fantasia told me, they have a lot of repeaters, both in YC and the rest of the ship.

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You're claiming that the Cruisers choice poll is more reliable, so do you have any figures to show how many of those persons voting actually have sailed on MSC? Further, what is the nationality of those cruisers voting compared to the average nationality breakup of those on MSC cruises?

 

To be reliable the first figure has to be shown as signficant and representative, and the second break-up should correspond accurately to make a fairer assessment of those sailing, instead of say just cruisers who are mostly atypical of their primary target market. No cruise, or pretty much any brand or product, can be the most adored by every person across the world. One person wants formal, another wants informal. One person wants casual, another wants structure. Success comes from repeat sailings and business, which clearly MSC has.

 

Incidentally - personal experience is very reliable. It may not be definitive - but then neither is an unscientific poll. Both have biases and limitations; preferring one over another is more indicative of one's personal preferences than demonstrating anything conclusive. Forum discussions are useful for getting individual opinions on things, and hence Capricruiser's, Amomondo's and woodofpine's views are of great interest.

Cruise Critic Cruisers' Choice Poll

  • Rankings are based on ratings given by our members in published member reviews.
  • Ships must have a minimum number (10) of member reviews and ratings in a particular category in order to be included in that category's top 10 list.
  • Ratings shown have been rounded to the first decimal place, although they are calculated to the 8th decimal place and ordered as such; in the unlikely event of an exact tie, tied ships will instead order by the highest number of records entered, then alphabetically.

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Cruise Critic Cruisers' Choice Poll

  • Rankings are based on ratings given by our members in published member reviews.
  • Ships must have a minimum number (10) of member reviews and ratings in a particular category in order to be included in that category's top 10 list.
  • Ratings shown have been rounded to the first decimal place, although they are calculated to the 8th decimal place and ordered as such; in the unlikely event of an exact tie, tied ships will instead order by the highest number of records entered, then alphabetically.

 

None of those points address the two questions I posed which you replied to, from when you claimed the ranking as being more reliable, being "do you have any figures to show how many of those persons voting actually have sailed on MSC? Further, what is the nationality of those cruisers voting compared to the average nationality breakup of those on MSC cruises?"

 

Thus, I stand by my view above, that the poll supplied is not a definitive or better evaluation than the feedback given by others here. Both afford different perspectives.

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None of those points address the two questions I posed which you replied to, from when you claimed the ranking as being more reliable, being "do you have any figures to show how many of those persons voting actually have sailed on MSC? Further, what is the nationality of those cruisers voting compared to the average nationality breakup of those on MSC cruises?"

 

Thus, I stand by my view above, that the poll supplied is not a definitive or better evaluation than the feedback given by others here. Both afford different perspectives.

Look, the CC poll is available to all at these site. See http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/msc-cruises/cl/

There appear to be 887 reviews of MSC cruises by CCers. There is no breakdown by nationality although you can go through all 887 if you like to determine how many are written by Americans and how many by non-Americans. You may insist that the poll is not a better measurement that a few irrational people sharing anaectdotes, but that position is patently absurd to any rational person.

p.s. To the extent the hight priced Yacht Club reviews are massed with MSC it will now skew the MSC results upward.

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pmacher values only generalized polling data... Others say, polls are skewed, find an individual's narrative you approve of and listen to them...

 

Might you all be right? I think M hit it there...

 

Those that persistently have a problem with MSC in this sort of debate (and the dedicated bashers), always get stumped by -

 

Doug Ward of Berlitz Cruising Guide, he's spent the better part of 30 years on passenger ships evaluating them with a trained professional eye. Sure, as an individual he brings certain biases and perspective, but he is very experienced over a long run, he seeks to minimize his bias in a variety of systematic professional ways, and he's well regarded in the industry. He regularly ranks MSC much much higher than the 'MY vacation MY way' loose canon polls cited here. He is quite favorable to MSC overall.

 

So pmacher - are you saying that an expert like Ward at Berlitz 'doesn't count' because... why again??:D

 

(I guess I can't resist stirring the pot.!}

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pmacher values only generalized polling data... Others say, polls are skewed, find an individual's narrative you approve of and listen to them...

 

Might you all be right? I think M hit it there...

 

Those that persistently have a problem with MSC in this sort of debate (and the dedicated bashers), always get stumped by -

 

Doug Ward of Berlitz Cruising Guide, he's spent the better part of 30 years on passenger ships evaluating them with a trained professional eye. Sure, as an individual he brings certain biases and perspective, but he is very experienced over a long run, he seeks to minimize his bias in a variety of systematic professional ways, and he's well regarded in the industry. He regularly ranks MSC much much higher than the 'MY vacation MY way' loose canon polls cited here. He is quite favorable to MSC overall.

 

So pmacher - are you saying that an expert like Ward at Berlitz 'doesn't count' because... why again??:D

 

(I guess I can't resist stirring the pot.!}

 

Thanks for the Doug Ward mention....i just listened to an interview that was done on the Celebrity soltice......i have not read his books, but i enjoyed his interview...he believes as i do that everyone has there own wants and what is important to them....we have a lot of people ask us what ship we recommend as we do cruise often.....we never would tell anyone that one ship is for them unless we were very close friends and know what is important to them.....we do however tell them what ships are right for us...we have also said never again....but not in a review....on one cruiseline we still feel the same way as we did when we said it (after 3 attempts), on another cruiseline we had a couple of disappointing cruises and finally tried them again and sailed many happy cruises with them, we have now left them as they have screwed up our dance schedule (i am certain that is not important to most people but it is at the top for us) we love everything else about the line and were always among the top most traveled....but if we don't have the dancing then nothing else is important..that is how we came to MSC , and are extremely happy.....

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pmacher values only generalized polling data... Others say, polls are skewed, find an individual's narrative you approve of and listen to them...

Generalized polling date is a contradiction in terms. Data is data. These survey/polling results are quite specific, not generalized. The votes of almost 2000 MSC cruisers were tabulated mathematically and the scores they assigned to MSC (overall, dining, service, etc) are compared to the scores that the many thousands of cruisers (over 70,000) assigned to other cruise lines. For anyone in the market for a cruise this data is important.

 

Those that persistently have a problem with MSC in this sort of debate (and the dedicated bashers), always get stumped by -

Doug Ward of Berlitz Cruising Guide, he's spent the better part of 30 years on passenger ships evaluating them with a trained professional eye. Sure, as an individual he brings certain biases and perspective, but he is very experienced over a long run, he seeks to minimize his bias in a variety of systematic professional ways, and he's well regarded in the industry. He regularly ranks MSC much much higher than the 'MY vacation MY way' loose canon polls cited here. He is quite favorable to MSC overall.

So pmacher - are you saying that an expert like Ward at Berlitz 'doesn't count' because... why again??:D

(I guess I can't resist stirring the pot.!}

 

It's okay to stir the pot if by that term you mean to question the opinions or assertions of others in order to ascertain whether they can support their opinions/assertions with facts and sound, logical reasoning. These surveys that have been discussed are what they are - the tabulated opinions of Americans and Europeans rating various elements of many different cruise lines (esp. the later survey from an entity claiming to be Europe's and the World's largest Cruise Travel agent in 2010 and 2011.)

 

Why would you possibly accuse me of not counting Mr. Ward's opinion? I have never denied that we are all entitled to our own opinions (but not our own facts). In a civil, clear manner I have sought to question opinions by one or two vociferous MSC fans who tout MSC to the exclusion of other lines, when by their own admission they have not cruised any other line. I find that kind of opinion totally lacking in credibility.

That there exists a well known and or well respected travel writer who thinks MSC is a better cruise product than its mass market competition is neither surprising nor determinative of how MSC stacks up against its competition. It is one opinion. As a well educated one it is entitled to be considered seriously. I haven't read any reviews or rankings published by Mr Ward so I can not comment on them. Perhaps you can provide a link (assuming doing so doesn't violate any CC prohibitions of copyrighted material, etc). They might make for interesting reading. But be that as it may, the available surveys rate MSC so very very poorly compared to its competition that they can not be ignored, or explained away as statitstically insignificant, or dismissed as irrlelevant because, after all, they are the opinions of mostly "americans", or who cares anyway - MSC doesn't want American customers. It gets laughably absurd to see how some people will try everything and anything to avoid facing the facts that MSC not only gets horrible marks, but gets the absolute lowest marks of any of its competition..

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'Data' is significant and worthy - if it supports YOUR opinion... Otherwise, its just an opinion. I LOVE the hyperbole!:D

 

As my dear daddy (a CPA) used to say - 'Figures don't lie, but liers can figure!' (Not a personal diss, but I've found that line applies to so much these days - in politics and business.)

 

One thing MSC has - not to its credit - is folks that are so 'offended' by its style and product, that they dedicate themselves to online bashing of the line ad nauseum. How does that happen? It is a little too easy to simply blow off these posters as cranks (although a couple may earn that rep!:D).

 

To ever bolster my own 'perfect' opinion, "You are what you eat!"

 

If the galley were a couple notches better (or more accurately, if the line's galley product was consistently better [some NSC ships probably do (too) much better than others) then MSC IMHO would be uniquely competitive.

 

The line reminds me of an very old American soft drink product 'Vernors Ginger Ale'. Those that know that product might understand - it is very distinctive and unique. It is very different from the more common 'dry' ginger ale. It is so different (to my taste) that you might not even recognize it at first as 'ginger ale' and I'm sure many can't stand it! But it is the oldest soft drink product on the market (but not easy to find). MSC is almost like that - it has a few characteristics of a true old time ocean liner (multiple embarks/deimbarks points [in Europe], a really broadly varied pax demographic). The line stands out from its competitors, that's for sure.

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'Data' is significant and worthy - if it supports YOUR opinion... Otherwise, its just an opinion. I LOVE the hyperbole!:D

Let's not get confused. One person's opinion is an opinion. The mathematical tabulation of many thousands of opinions is data. It is data which tabulates opinions, but it is nonetheless data. Data is not an opinion, mine or anyone else's.

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Obviously you don't read what I wrote. I didn't cherrypick an MSC review to glorify the line, my point was to show that opinions regarding the food onboard the Splendida ( which this tred is about, not statistics and data ) is widely different as the American OP CC review and the British cruise.co.uk review clearly shows. But of course, if the OP didn't like the food onboard, that's up to him.

Why not book a MSC cruise yourself and make up your own opinion? :D

I read what you wrote. Why is it obvious I didn't? What is obvious is that you keep making silly arguments and accusations in a vain effort to explain away the dismal MSC results on all the polls.

What is obvious is that within a sample of a couple of thousand diners opinions on the quality of the food will vary. What is also obvious is that you chose an atypcal review of MSC food and tried to use it to support your argument that because individual opinions on MSC food may vary, the consensus of thousands that MSC food is the worst of all lines is somehow invalid and unimportant. That is what is obvious.

Again talking of obvious, it is obvious you didn't read my post above in which I stated that I did cruise MSC once and once is more than enough for me. Lastly, I suspect you are obviously embarrassed at first bringing to the readers' attention another poll of cruisers that indisputably confirms the CC Cruisers Choice polls showing that MSC food is rated the absolute lowest among all cruise lines.

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I read what you wrote. Why is it obvious I didn't? What is obvious is that you keep making silly arguments and accusations in a vain effort to explain away the dismal MSC results on all the polls.

What is obvious is that within a sample of a couple of thousand diners opinions on the quality of the food will vary. What is also obvious is that you chose an atypcal review of MSC food and tried to use it to support your argument that because individual opinions on MSC food may vary, the consensus of thousands that MSC food is the worst of all lines is somehow invalid and unimportant. That is what is obvious.

Again talking of obvious, it is obvious you didn't read my post above in which I stated that I did cruise MSC once and once is more than enough for me. Lastly, I suspect you are obviously embarrassed at first bringing to the readers' attention another poll of cruisers that indisputably confirms the CC Cruisers Choice polls showing that MSC food is rated the absolute lowest among all cruise lines.

 

It's obvoius because you are accusing me to post a review to glorify MSC, which I told you was not my intention. My review posting had one intention, to show the difference in food experience onboard Splendida, which this tred is all about.

 

Absolutely not, I have on several occasions posted reviews from the uk site and if I was to be embarrassed I wouldn't post again. Yes, I find it very strange that the food onboard is so bad as the reviews tell us about, totally different from my experience. Sorry about your MSC Cruise and that it didn't work out for you.

 

Happy cruising elsewhere:)

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I see that everyone that lists an MSC cruise in their signatures on this thread also rates MSC as their worst cruise ever.

 

I second this! In all 107 posts there is not even one poster who has MSC in their signature and does not rate it as their worst cruise ever! (Myself included).

Norwegian Cruiser,you can find it in the link you had provided:D.

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Let's not get confused. One person's opinion is an opinion. The mathematical tabulation of many thousands of opinions is data. It is data which tabulates opinions, but it is nonetheless data. Data is not an opinion, mine or anyone else's.

 

As that guy who sent so many on their last cruise...

 

"The death of an individual is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic..." :D

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I second this! In all 107 posts there is not even one poster who has MSC in their signature and does not rate it as their worst cruise ever! (Myself included).

Norwegian Cruiser,you can find it in the link you had provided:D.

 

:D:D:D It's a funny world and I really enjoy every moment at sea and especially onboard MSC's wonderful ships.:)

 

Good night from Norway

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This thread seems to have run its course. Despite its very poor showing in several broadly based polls, MSC retains some vociferous fans here. I hope they enjoy their future cruises on whichever line they choose, whether it be MSC or any other. No one wishes anyone else to have a bad cruise.

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So the majority of cruisecritic's members/ratings are from US cruisers, and McDonalds is a fast food business originated and focussed and grown massively from US food preferences.

 

Just as Mickey D's isn't as popular in all countries around the world as it is in the US, all that's shown by this ranking is MSC's and Costa's (who operate quite similarly) food isn't popular with American diets. That doesn't mean it's bad food - just not popular with US palates. But as you've shown with the McD's sample, even though McD's is popular in the US, it also doesn't mean that everyone there likes them, or dislikes them either.

 

The other thing is when you look at that ranking, the other ships (grouped into lines) who rates above those two are from lines which are based around US passengers.

 

So all that's really showing me is other lines cater to US passengers, and therefore their tastes, and are therefore more popular with US passengers. Whereas Euro lines which cater to Euro passengers aren't as popular with US passengers.

 

But since we don't all love the same food, as you pointed out, there's nothing really groundbreaking in that outcome.

 

I certainly have my disagreements with the rankings, but what is noticeable is that all the UK market ships are rated MUCH higher than

than their reputations would lead you to expect--it's not us gringos who are skewing the ratings...

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No one is disputing your facts PMarcher just trying to get a bit of perspective around your assertions that MSC is lousy.

 

The fact is there are currently 888 reviews for MSC (fact)

Not all of them think the food is lousy (fact)

There are 250 reviews from September 2010 (give or take a few) (fact)

In the same period MSC has the capactity to carry in excess of 1,500,000 passengers (fact)

MSC is one of the worlds largest and fastest growing cruise line (fact)

MSC builds new ships regularly to add to their fleet for example

ships built in 2001,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010, and Davina to come in 2012. (fact).

 

So my point being that the number of negative CC reviews by comparison to their passengers is miniscule. They wouldnt be building new ships and carrying more passengers if they were not doing something right.

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