Costa Concordia SINKING

[CruisinMinnie]

I couldn't say it better myself, so I'm using your words to express what I feel about Italy and Italians in this horrible tragedy.

 

You shouldn't and we don't.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that with one exception Italians behaved courageously, bravely and generously on that night - from the Coastguard and rescue services, the crew of Costa Concordia and the islanders of Giglio - that is the 'Italy' we should remember, not the failings of one individual.

[funfamilyof6]

I am italian too and as GioRaf I hope that we won't be judged based on the insane behaviour of one italian captain.

When I listened to the whole conversation between the captain and the authority in livorno I was shocked!!!

http://www.fanpage.it/la-telefonata-tra-la-capitaneria-e-il-comandante-schettino-torni-subito-a-bordo/

The person shouting is the commander in Livorno that is ordering him to go back to the ship to check how many passengers needed help to get ashore, how many children, women or people with disabilitues were still there, and the lower voice is him finding excuses not to go back to the ship....The last one was 'But it's dark!!' That's when the commander told him 'so what do you want to do, do you want to go home?

The commander is even swearing at him (....cazzo!!, ...Cristo!!) to force him to go back and only at the end Schettino says Ok, I'll go.

But he never went back to the ship.

And this is only one of the dreadful thing that today have been on the news here in Italy.

Apparently he was convinced he could handle it on his own, without asking for help (that's why no mayday calls have been done from the ship), ignoring what the other officers were telling him. At the end there has been a mutiny and the other officers gave the order to start emergency disembarkation. These are facts.

Now speculations: rumours about him beeing drinking that night are starting to grow. No alcohol or drug tests have been taken that night.

Or that he's entered a sort of panic distress and acted insane. Either way this tragedy could have been avoided, not once but twice: not going near the coast in the first place and calling immediately for help after he hit the rock. While the first error is still "acceptable", if the rock he hit was uncharted, the second one (not calling for hel) and the third (abandoning the ship) are not.

I'm so disconsolate and sorry for what happened, I even feel guilty because he's italian, but please, don't blame it on us all. I can assure you that we are as responsible and accurate as all other nations, it's a matter of the single person insanity.

I was really convinced that, yes, it had been a human error, but that he tried to remedy going ashore. How wrong I was!!!

The ship going ashore was not his decision, maybe his officers' decision or it just happened because God himself tried to help.

And I feel sorry also for Costa: the chairman yesterday was even getting emotional at one point (his voice broke and he couldn't go on for a few seconds). Don't know what else to say..... I hope he will pay for his excess of self-esteem and moreover for his cowardness

 

I don't believe the captain being Italian had anything to do with his arrogance...he could have been American, Indian, Chinese, Russian, etc!

[BugsyCruiser]

So sad to hear that they have found more bodies but also thankful so many people were saved(no thanks to the Captain). I hope the Captain pays dearly for what he did. The abandoning ship is inexcusable plus his lies that he did not leave and then when they confronted him on leaving and ordered him back to the ship to make the excuses he did especially the one "But it's dark." Thankfully the overwhelming majority of officers on cruise ships are very professional and would not leave their passengers and crew in a horrible situation like this. But this one? He needs to go to prison, for the rest of his life

[green cruiser]

The actions of the crew are still a matter for debate, but no one can do anything but admire the divers who are working in an unstable and very dangerous situation in an effort to find survivors.

[CeleBrat]

I can't even imagine searching a ship like this, as there are so many rooms, nooks, and crannies where guests could be. I bet that given the power failure during the incident , that there were people who got stuck in the elevators... And no one ever got them out since there were so many other things happening.

 

CeleBrat

[Globetotter]

And we seem to have a fact that the captain was on shore at some specific time and he was ordered to go back to the ship...but we don't know if that was a legal order....can you order someone back to a "sinking ship". I know this sounds like a strange question....but at some point, even the authorities can't order someone to go back to a sinking ship...or go back into a burning building, etc...

 

The captain was on one of the lifeboats, in the ship proximity, trying to go ashore. He had abandoned the ship so the authority in Livorno(what I call 'the commander' but I do not now the term inenglish) was in charge and perfectly in his authority to order him to go back to the ship. We're not talking about SOMEONE here, we're talking about a captain on duty.

He HAD to go back, or face the law (which is what is happening). Probably he was more scared to die than to go to jail.

[Topsham]

 

No question that he should not have been there.....I didn't say that...I was just trying to see if his statement made sense. If he said he was 300 meters offshore, then he was wrong....and I agree that I probably picked up a wrong statement...he would not have said 300 feet.

 

 

The sad truth is that I don't think we can rely on anything that he has said up to this point

 

 

Even 300 metres is too close.... 1,000 metres... and slow down to 5 knots would be barely acceptable.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

I am italian too and as GioRaf I hope that we won't be judged based on the insane behaviour of one italian captain.

When I listened to the whole conversation between the captain and the authority in livorno I was shocked!!!

http://www.fanpage.it/la-telefonata-tra-la-capitaneria-e-il-comandante-schettino-torni-subito-a-bordo/

The person shouting is the commander in Livorno that is ordering him to go back to the ship to check how many passengers needed help to get ashore, how many children, women or people with disabilitues were still there, and the lower voice is him finding excuses not to go back to the ship....The last one was 'But it's dark!!' That's when the commander told him 'so what do you want to do, do you want to go home?

The commander is even swearing at him (....cazzo!!, ...Cristo!!) to force him to go back and only at the end Schettino says Ok, I'll go.

But he never went back to the ship.

And this is only one of the dreadful thing that today have been on the news here in Italy.

Apparently he was convinced he could handle it on his own, without asking for help (that's why no mayday calls have been done from the ship), ignoring what the other officers were telling him. At the end there has been a mutiny and the other officers gave the order to start emergency disembarkation. These are facts.

Now speculations: rumours about him beeing drinking that night are starting to grow. No alcohol or drug tests have been taken that night.

Or that he's entered a sort of panic distress and acted insane. Either way this tragedy could have been avoided, not once but twice: not going near the coast in the first place and calling immediately for help after he hit the rock. While the first error is still "acceptable", if the rock he hit was uncharted, the second one (not calling for hel) and the third (abandoning the ship) are not.

I'm so disconsolate and sorry for what happened, I even feel guilty because he's italian, but please, don't blame it on us all. I can assure you that we are as responsible and accurate as all other nations, it's a matter of the single person insanity.

I was really convinced that, yes, it had been a human error, but that he tried to remedy going ashore. How wrong I was!!!

The ship going ashore was not his decision, maybe his officers' decision or it just happened because God himself tried to help.

And I feel sorry also for Costa: the chairman yesterday was even getting emotional at one point (his voice broke and he couldn't go on for a few seconds). Don't know what else to say..... I hope he will pay for his excess of self-esteem and moreover for his cowardness

 

Your post is so very heartbreaking to read. :::hugs:::

 

We have not forgotten that those selfless people who opened their restaurants, shops, churches, school and even their own homes to cold, wet, terrified strangers....were also Italian.

[astrocruises]

Jrosati / Techsearch

 

I did read one post much earlier on this forum where one gentleman said that he has his "grab bag" in the cabin safe and then said, what I thought was a great idea, that last thing he does before retiring for the night is to leave the safe open so as not to fumble in the dark if he has to evacuate.

 

FWIW, the room safes will open in the event of a power failure because they have a battery backup. Only once have I checked into a stateroom and found the "baT" LEDs lit on the safe readout, indicating it was time to change the battery. A call to the purser's desk had an engineer up within a few hours.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I'm Italian and as first i would like to say i'm indignated for the shame the ship's captain, Francesco Schettino has put all over us, we are not like him, we are accurate on what we do.

 

That said i would like specify that, according with latest news, some scuba divers of police had found the rock formation hit by the ship and its was found that the distance from the coast its exactly 92 to 96 mt (302 to 315 feet) and the deep of the rock formation it was 8 mt (26 ft.).

 

Also from the black box seems that the exact time of impact it was 9.58 pm.

GioRaf, the fact that the Capt was italian should not impact upon yourself or any of the Italian nation. The Capt is fully to blame for this event and none of the Italian should responsible in any way. The buck stops with him.

 

best regards

[JJSMaine]

I am stunned that this event happened.

 

Can we please have no more "excuses" or defense of this Captain.. please.. it is disgusting and insulting to the lives lost.

 

He was clearly an arrogant and egotistic a man that should have NEVER been allowed to command a ship of any kind let alone one with so many trusting souls on board.

 

More over, what kind of corporate culture is it that allows someone like this into a position of leadership? Costa and all other lines need to prove to me that their selection process is and has been capable of weeding out personalities like his.

 

This kind of bravado should never be allowed... ever.

 

I am totally disgusted with Costa and I do lay blame at their feet... yes, this man could be a very skilled chameleon and may have fooled everyone, but if his personality is what it appears, my guess is that we will soon see stories from people he has worked with that will support a path of behavior that could have forestalled his ability to make such bad decisions.

 

I appreciate people trying to quell rumors, but it is time to tell it like it is and point out the horror, the damage, the effect this will have on the entire industry... there is no sugar coating to this, save for the rescue and well being of the crew and passengers and those individual acts that did what could be done to help. I also think that the real hero is the one who eventually stood up to the captain and called for the Abandon ship... and to whit... it now appears that if the Abandon call had been made earlier, and the guests weren't lied to about the situation, lives would have been saved....

 

.....and that is the real tragedy.... the captain picked his sense of well being over the lives of his passengers.

 

so sad... :(

[ghstudio]

The captain was on one of the lifeboats, in the ship proximity, trying to go ashore. He had abandoned the ship so the authority in Livorno(what I call 'the commander' but I do not now the term inenglish) was in charge and perfectly in his authority to order him to go back to the ship. We're not talking about SOMEONE here, we're talking about a captain on duty.

He HAD to go back, or face the law (which is what is happening). Probably he was more scared to die than to go to jail.

 

I am just suggesting that it might not have been in his authority...it would be interesting to read the italian law on that topic. Can they order the captain to stay on the ship until the very last passenger is accounted for?

 

At some point, they can't order him back on board....I'm just curious what that point is....legally...in Italy.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Just as a matter of interest, has it come to light who was steering the ship when it hit the rocks? (I am not in any way saying the captain is not to blame if he was not steering the ship but I am just interested. If he placed such an important responsibility in someone else's hands at such a dangerous time, then I am even more astounded.)

The helmsman would be steering the ship however he would be taking his instructions from the Captain or the Officer of the watch who has control of the ship (Unless the Capt is on the bridge) The helmsman is normally just an able bodies seaman and holds minimal rank (Might be a bosun at most)

 

rgds

[Globetotter]

Your post is so very heartbreaking to read. :::hugs:::

 

We have not forgotten that those selfless people who opened their restaurants, shops, churches, school and even their own homes to cold, wet, terrified strangers....were also Italian.

 

Thak you very much, to all of you (also CruisinMinni, Familyof6... )!!!!

I'm translating word by word the conversation between the livorno commander and the captain. It will take a whilebut it's worth reading it wordby word. Thank you Giorgio, I know you already did it with the highlights but the whole thing gives a more shocking view.

[atush]

The FBI is one of the most elite law enforcement agencies in the world. To say otherwise is just silly.

 

That's not to say that the LE agencies of other countries aren't staffed with good people who give their all to solve crimes and protect people. But the FBI has technology and resources available to them that many other countries' agencies simply do not.

 

Thank you for getting my point.

[roscoegirl]

Just reported on CNN, death toll now at 11 people.

[Milaandra]

I have had nightmares the last few nights trying to picture what happened to these people who ended up having to jump, why the two elderly gentlemen were still at their possible muster station, why the father and 5 yr old daughter didn't make it into a boat...It is all so terrifying. My heart is sick for all of them.

 

So far those they have found have had their life jackets on. (including the latest 5, may they RIP) Injuries or immediate death due to the list of the ship, falls and falling equipment? Did the last 5 take a wrong turn and get trapped? Did people delay going to their muster station and literally "miss the boat"? Did the lifeboats that left so soon after the abandon ship leave with all their assigned passengers? Did the father and child decide to swim for it?

 

Are some people actually safe, but just not contacting their families because of post-trauma or confusion? I'm thinking of the several that were listed as rescued and are now back on the missing list.

 

So many questions, and I'm sure it will be a very long time before we know the answers.

[4kids3dogs2cats&fish]

That's my take on this too. He messed up bad hitting that rock, but in the end made a call by putting the ship as close to land as he could and tossing the anchor to keep it from going too far. It almost sounds like this was a powered move under anchor, a true emergency stop. We'll see.

 

But IMO it looks very conclusive from the photos and the many links I've provided that the starboard anchor was out. That's the anchor you'd throw if you wanted to counter clockwise rotate the stern around.

 

I agree as well, except I think the port anchor should have been the one deployed in order to get a better pivot point to swing the ship around counter clockwise. One other thing is that I think the captain waited to swing the ship until the ship cleared the town's harbor in order not to block the harbor with the ship for the foreseeable future.

[shipfriend_max]

That's interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573312

[ghstudio]

Can we please have no more "excuses" or defense of this Captain.. please..

 

So you don't believe in the US legal system where an accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You have already judged the man based on witness accounts, newspaper accounts, statements attributed to someone and so on.

 

The fact is that we don't have all the facts. We have a few, but out of context...e.g. the rock was 92-96 meters off shore...but you can't find the rock he hit because there are no charted rocks there.

 

No doubt he made some very serious mistakes...but he is most likely the most responsible for saving lives after hitting the rock as he took the ship to shallow water and performed a very dangerous turn using the anchor to get the ship on shallow ground. That doesn't imply that he isn't guilty of a lot of things....but at least he did one thing right and it saved lives.

 

I'm not trying to defend him....I'm just commenting on how the "facts" might not match the reasons that people are already hanging him.

[atush]

I obviously don't know which rock Concordia hit, but according to an electronic chart of the area dated 2007, there are a group of underwater rocks slightly east of the Isole Le Scole. (The two small islands on the east of the island). The most easterly rock is 58 metres from the Isole Le Scole

 

Right-clicking the rock and bringing up the additional information for that rock gives :

 

"Name: Dangerous Rock.

Position: Unknown.

Depth: Unknown, Dangerous for Navigation."

 

VP

 

 

I saw a UK TV news report with a reporter in a small boat off some rocks which he said the italian investigators said Concordia had hit as there was a paint susbtance left behing on the rocks still in situ (at least one is still int he hull) I can't remember the exact distance they were from shore but they were closer than 300 meters in the report ( I think it was BBC but could have been Sky).

[Milaandra]

Can we please have no more "excuses" or defense of this Captain.. please.. it is disgusting and insulting to the lives lost.

 

The facts are not yet in. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

 

We're all just speculating. Both those who have decided already that he is the devil incarnate, and those of us who are hoping he isn't.

[Camelfred]

Hi,

Now speculations: rumours about him beeing drinking that night are starting to grow. No alcohol or drug tests have been taken that night.

can this be true ?

Usually alcohol-tests are taken even when you only crash with a bicycle (if other people are injured) .

I can't believe that they "forgot" to take the test in this case....

 

Camelfred

[atush]

So you don't believe in the US legal system where an accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You have already judged the man based on witness accounts, newspaper accounts, statements attributed to someone and so on.

 

The fact is that we don't have all the facts. We have a few, but out of context...e.g. the rock was 92-96 meters off shore...but you can't find the rock he hit because there are no charted rocks there.

 

No doubt he made some very serious mistakes...but he is most likely the most responsible for saving lives after hitting the rock as he took the ship to shallow water and performed a very dangerous turn using the anchor to get the ship on shallow ground. That doesn't imply that he isn't guilty of a lot of things....but at least he did one thing right and it saved lives.

 

I'm not trying to defend him....I'm just commenting on how the "facts" might not match the reasons that people are already hanging him.

 

I agree with your general point here but...........

 

I am going to count him as guilty before trial based only on his own words in the recording made between him and the Coast Guard who ordered him back onto the ship and he refused. I will count him guilty of abandoning ship only, as that is the evidence of his own words in the recording made while many people were still on board. I will wait for the rest of the evidence at the trial for the manslaughter bit.

[hockey grannys go 4]

The facts are not yet in. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

 

We're all just speculating. Both those who have decided already that he is the devil incarnate, and those of us who are hoping he isn't.

I wonder if you would still think this way if it was your 5 year old child still missing