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Costa Concordia SINKING

ItalianGuest

By ItalianGuest,
in Costa Cruises

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Feelin' Nauti'

Feelin' Nauti'

Posted
Posted
Do you have links to any of the blogs? I am interested in seeing what the families are saying. I guess with all this waiting blogging is one outlet for their thoughts and feelings about the situation.

 

I feel so sad for the families who have no firm answers just yet. In some ways I think not knowing is worse than knowing oneway or another.

https://heilfamilyupdate.wordpress.com/

 

The Heils are the only Americans unaccounted for :(

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Highlander0108

Highlander0108

Posted
Posted
You are correct....and the stern thrusters are called azipods. Hence my questions to you to help me dig up the facts, which I commend you for.

 

And the fact are........the Concordia had no stern thrusters, only bow thrusters.

 

And to Bob (deckofficer) each thruster takes over 1,000 horsepower to run them, so generaters must be online to handle such power. And they come from the engine room.

 

Rick

 

Rick, Concordia, and her sisterships do have stern thrusters. They're built into her keel. In conjunction with the bow thrusters, they can walk the ship sideways. Azipods are a completely different beast. They are the main propulsion for the ship, but are rotatable to provide steerage and act as very powerful thrusters.

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JJSMaine

JJSMaine

Posted
Posted
Do you have links to any of the blogs? I am interested in seeing what the families are saying. I guess with all this waiting blogging is one outlet for their thoughts and feelings about the situation.

 

I feel so sad for the families who have no firm answers just yet. In some ways I think not knowing is worse than knowing one way or another.

 

 

It is a bit overwhelming... especially for the families of the still missing.

 

 

While I appreciate those who say this incident doesn't dent their enthusiasm, I will have to reserve judgement... and that will be based on how Costa and the Industry reacts to the situation.

 

I feel horrible for the crew who were put in an untenable situation . .. they likely could FEEL something big was wrong... and after an hour plus of floating around scuttle, had to have gotten around to some degree... people sometimes "just know" and that is because on an instinctual level we know when people are lying.. so when a crew member does their duty and tells people that "everything is OK" when it is obviously not OK, and you can tell the person telling you doesn't even believe it... a very unfair position for the crew to be in.

 

So .. in the future... when something goes wrong, will I be fed a load of happy talk, or will I get respect as a human being and be told the truth. We can see the effect of trying to kid glove the ship with the "electrical failure" announcements, which while not a lie, was certainly way way short of the real situation of having a boulder imbedded in the ship.. ( vent vent..)

 

 

I think.. for the sake of the families that will need closure. The facts need to come out as soon as possible... it will be quite unfair for this all to drag on for months or years... they have suffered enough... here we are gossiping about some Russian woman (myself included.. i read it too).. this truly feels like one of those crashing dreams, but we didn't wake up.

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SissasMomE

SissasMomE

Posted
Posted

What would have caused people to get trapped? I'm sorry if that sounds ignorant ... I have been wondering since this happened, and didn't really know how to phrase it without sounding like an idiot. I know some people just jumped and swam to shore, or maybe couldn't swim and drowned. One guy that died went back to his cabin for his violin ... but why wouldn't he have been able to get back out? Do doors lock or something? Or did the ship just fill with water that quickly?

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cruiserfanfromct

cruiserfanfromct

Posted
Posted

From the article:

"They raised four kids and sent them all to private school, elementary to college, so they never had any money," Sarah Heil said. "So when they retired, they went traveling. And this was to be a big deal — a 16-day trip. They were really excited about it."

 

How incredibly sad that they weren't able to enjoy a trip that they had waited and saved their entire lives for. **crying my eyes out**

 

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Prayers-for-Minn-couple-missing-in-ship-disaster-2612908.php#ixzz1k4AjRo00

 

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Feelin' Nauti'

Feelin' Nauti'

Posted
Posted
That is so sad ... they look so happy. :(

:( Very sad.

 

Family member said ""We are grateful to all of those who are working so hard to find our parents and very concerned for the safety of the Italian Coast Guard as they continue to put forth a heroic effort in trying to find those who remain missing."

 

Tells you what kind of people they are.

 

 

 

The Fleser's from NY were more fortunate.

 

http://hudsonvalley.ynn.com/content/top_stories/570433/duanesburg-family-home-safe-after-cruise-ship-disaster/

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JJSMaine

JJSMaine

Posted
Posted
What would have caused people to get trapped? I'm sorry if that sounds ignorant ... I have been wondering since this happened, and didn't really know how to phrase it without sounding like an idiot. I know some people just jumped and swam to shore, or maybe couldn't swim and drowned. One guy that died went back to his cabin for his violin ... but why wouldn't he have been able to get back out? Do doors lock or something? Or did the ship just fill with water that quickly?

 

 

I don;t think we will know for a while.

 

Many of us think that the way the scenario played out the call to abandon ship could have come much earlier. The Korean couple slept through everything and woke up trapped in their cabin.... The crew was telling passengers to go back to their cabins, and that may be where some are yet to be found.... .

 

When the ship tossed hard to the right, maybe when it grounded, it could have trapped more people in their cabins in some way. We also know that some deceased passengers were found with life preserves on and in the general area of the muster station they were assigned.

 

It remains to be seen how much flooding happened when in the ship and on the lower decks. At some point, anyone not out of the starboard aft area would have faced flooding that would have been hard and confusing to escape from.

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SissasMomE

SissasMomE

Posted
Posted
I don;t think we will know for a while.

 

Many of us think that the way the scenario played out the call to abandon ship could have come much earlier. The Korean couple slept through everything and woke up trapped in their cabin.... The crew was telling passengers to go back to their cabins, and that may be where some are yet to be found.... .

 

When the ship tossed hard to the right, maybe when it grounded, it could have trapped more people in their cabins in some way. We also know that some deceased passengers were found with life preserves on and in the general area of the muster station they were assigned.

 

It remains to be seen how much flooding happened when in the ship and on the lower decks. At some point, anyone not out of the starboard aft area would have faced flooding that would have been hard and confusing to escape from.

 

I can't even imagine what they thought. It's just heartbreaking.

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Ozcruiser1

Ozcruiser1

Posted
Posted
I fully believe that any videos that Costa & Carnival Corp can confirm are actually from the Concordia will be reviewed (in detail and repeatedly). However, re: the crew members directing passengers back to their cabins - that is actual protocol.

 

I worked onboard a cruise ship for 2 years. While I was not assigned a major function during emergencies onboard or evacuation scenarios, I was still responsible for attending drills on a bi-weekly basis. We were drilled on the contents of life rafts, the uses (often multiple) of various equipment onboard. We were shown how to lower our life rafts in case of emergency where our life raft commander & assistant commander were incapacitated etc... It's pretty extensive. However, if an emergency has not been declared and the evacuation order has not been confirmed by the bridge, then all crew are to direct passengers to remain calm and return to their cabins. While in this case, it didn't work out - there is not normally an expectation that the captain would avoid ordering a necessary evacuation for over an hour! To me, that is the main issue.

 

The general crew (hotel operation, not ship operation) must go by the orders they are receiving from the bridge. In this case, I believe the crew were acting in good faith truly not knowing the severity of the situation. I was onboard during 2 different fire alarms. As an average crew member, I knew no more of what was going on in that time than any passenger. I was in my cabin on both occasions and so was not in communication with passengers. However, had I been in public space, I would have been telling pax to go about their day as normal, no need for life jackets, no need to assemble at muster stations and that there was not need to panic. In both cases, I would have been correct. Within 15 minutes both situations were resolved by our fire crews.

 

In the scenario on the Concordia - I can't even imagine the scenario. I would hazard a guess that most crew members are completely disillusioned with the captain and feel just as tossed to the wolves as the passengers. They did what they "should" until it became evident that the situation was much more severe than they were being told. Until they get an evacuation order, the crew that most passengers see on a daily basis are simply told that things are under control, the situation is being handled/assessed and to keep passengers calm. Just my two cents on the issue (and yes, I worked within the Carnival Corp. umbrella)

 

Totally agree with you.

This puts the staff who are face to face with the passengers, who would be in varying states of panic, in a terrible situation. This situation needs to be addressed by some critical incident management experts, who could have some input into procedures that would allow the staff to be able to have confidence in the instructions that they are giving to the passengers and for the passengers to have confidence in the instructions that they are given.

 

If the ship is listing, being told that its an electrical problem, isn't going to cut it. I fully understand that is all the staff member can do and say until he/she is told otherwise. If confidence is lost then its everyone for themselves and that is when chaos occurs.

Surely material on the responses of people involved in other tragic events such as 9/11 could be used to better manage people in a time of crisis ( be it real or false alarm)

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Silverado6x6

Silverado6x6

Posted
Posted
Another graphic of the sequence of events. Comments about thrusters made.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/graphic-the-final-moments-of-the-costa-concordia/

Click the download pdf to make it bigger

After about 6 tries I finally was able to get that image to download, its just my flaky dialup connection in Alaska Many thanks, I would post it as an actual image but if it took me almost 20 minutes to see the full image I could see some posters not seeing it at all, I know not everyone lives in a Utopia of broadband.

 

Coincidentally I have a sort of plan of living in Oz, I noticed you are in Melbourne. Thats my focal point of looking around come next winter.

It becomes more so clear the captain or some senior officer made some very quick decisions with limited or for the most part no propulsion at all.

 

However there is no mention of the anchor and as yet no mention if indeed the anchor itself was used to slow, turn or to stop.

 

The 20/20 ABC show isn't on yet in my time zone but since its an ABC show and ABC is in with Disney I would not be surprised that its a hit show piece against other cruise ships.

 

And the latest ship to be heading for its inaugural launch is....the Disney Fantasy, just left its dock this morning in Germany on its way down the river.

 

For Deckofficer, I too also worked oilfield, way back in 1984 in North East Texas. Since 1995 I have been a concrete batch plant supervisor, and every day I yearn to take off, been working on some sort of viable cruise vessel, yeah I know that probably is blasphemy on these boards a real honest boat owner that would rather build his own than spend money to ride one.

 

Well if this comment gets deleted I won't post here anymore, its not right to be under that strict of rules.

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degarr

degarr

Posted
Posted
After about 6 tries I finally was able to get that image to download, its just my flaky dialup connection in Alaska Many thanks, I would post it as an actual image but if it took me almost 20 minutes to see the full image I could see some posters not seeing it at all, I know not everyone lives in a Utopia of broadband.

 

Coincidentally I have a sort of plan of living in Oz, I noticed you are in Melbourne. Thats my focal point of looking around come next winter.

It becomes more so clear the captain or some senior officer made some very quick decisions with limited or for the most part no propulsion at all.

 

However there is no mention of the anchor and as yet no mention if indeed the anchor itself was used to slow, turn or to stop.

 

The 20/20 ABC show isn't on yet in my time zone but since its an ABC show and ABC is in with Disney I would not be surprised that its a hit show piece against other cruise ships.

 

snip

 

1. I will upload the picture now

2. If you have questions about Melbourne degarr at gmail dot com.

3. The anchor aspect has been addressed (try search anchor in this thread) starboard was deployed and appears (note) "APPEARS" to be near to the vessel as she lays now as shown by underwater video and the chain is loose. 4.

Finally the 20/20 video is up on you tube, I posted a link a few pages back. Cheers David

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Ozcruiser1

Ozcruiser1

Posted
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It's not that simple. GPS stands for global positioning system and the original (GPS) was used for military decades before "Joe the plumber" had it in his van down by the river. ;)

 

In any case many other methods of positioning have been developed based on completely different and unrelated technologies such as phone location services. Yes phones and even cameras (for geotagging) have a GPS receiver dependent upon clear unblocked view to the sky. When that is not available such as indoors the (phone) can use cellular sites to triangulate a person's position with adequate accuracy.

 

Bottom line ANY device based on location uses radio frequencies and is subject to interference and miscalculation producing errors. In day to day activities these would be considered inconvenient annoyances. In a life or death situation you certainly would NOT want to depend on something to find your way!

 

I think technology is great but if we become too dependent on it bad things can and will happen. Just imagine if the (GPS) satellites were disabled by an X-Class coronal mass ejection (solar flare). All in a sudden the navigation systems folks use in cars today would be paperweights. People would have to resort to using maps! Oh the horror! As an old school engineer I grew up on a slide rule. Ask modern day graduates about it and you get a blank stare. :eek:

 

The crux of the matter is would you trust your life (on escape routing) to a piece of plastic made in China by the lowest bidder to show you the way to muster? ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

 

p.s. If I find myself in a pickle I have a way to tell rescue units to find me. It's on my wrist, known as a Breitling Emergency. ;)

 

From the website The Breitling Emergency is Designed for pilots and aircrews, the Emergency is an instrument watch with built-in microtransmitter broadcasting on the 121.5 MHz aircraft emergency frequency. Following a crash or a forced landing, for example, the Emergency will send a signal on which rescuers can home in. The watch thus serves as a complement to the aircraft’s own distress signaling equipment.......

 

I would imagine that this would be very expensive and out of the reach of most.

I thought something more along the lines of an "avalanche passive transponder". If this could incorporated into a cruise card it may allow better co-ordination of the location of passengers during/after an evacuation indicating whether they are onshore or still on the vessel. Could allow for more accurate manifest checking etc.

 

I am not associate with the following company but found this on the web and thought it may be something to consider.

 

RECCO® detectors are different from transceivers. They are thin, card-size units that are embedded by some manufacturers into ski products such as jackets, pants, boots or helmets. RECCO detectors complement—but do NOT replace—the use of avalanche transceivers. These passive transponders reflect and enhance the radio signals sent by the RECCO detector units used by many search-and-rescue organizations. This may mean quicker acquisition of a victim's position in an avalanche.

 

The RECCO system offers many benefits:

 

The detector is a passive, battery-free device that requires no action or education on the part of the wearer.

It is imbedded in the gear, so it's likely to stay with the person buried in an avalanche.

When a signal is received, RECCO detectors lead the operator in a direct line to the victim; this directional signal can save precious search time.

RECCO signals can be picked up by either ground- or helicopter-based searchers.

RECCO signals are not related to, nor do they interfere with, transceiver searches, so both approaches can be used in the same area at the same time.

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