Costa Concordia SINKING

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

As tragic as this is, it does bring up a point that has been discussed at the Maritime Academies. There are NO major cruise lines that operate under the US flag. This is a cost saving measure because both safety and crewing requirements are more expensive to the cruise company. The way the cruise lines avoid this for domestic cruises is simple, one foreign port is always in the itinerary. Matson, a container shipping company has to sail under the US flag because it operates between the US west coast and Hawaii. You ever wonder why Mexico is always a port of call enroute from the west coast to Hawaii on the cruise ships? I am a graduate of the California Maritime Academy and a retired Merchant Marine Deckofficer, and now days when I cruise for pleasure, it is aboard my own vessel. I know the chances of what has happened here is rather slim, but you could rest assured that a US flagged vessel would not have had this accident in the first place, and if it did, there would be an orderly abandon ship, conducted at the highest professional standards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I plan to read all of your posts from start to finish to have context, but starting with this first one, I tend to believe your initial observations. I do not believe for one second, that if the cruise companies were to register there ships under the US flag (or certain other western countries for that matter) that cruising as it exists today would even operate. From a costs, employment and profit perspective... you wouldn't have even half the ships that exist on the market today (and the cruise lines would not be as profitable).

[Topsham]

The inference was the Captains carry a policy because any screw up by his deckofficers cost him his license.

 

 

Again I have never, ever heard of anyone carrying insurance on their license.

 

I think I'll call Lloyds and ask them. What did you say the policy was called?

[guernseyguy]

And thank you for that link, helped prove a theory my colleagues came to

Trust me, relying on the Daily Mail as support does nothing for your credibility.....What other evidence is there for this theory - other than some expert spouted it well before he was in possession of the facts about the course and their proximity to Giglio?

[peterhof]

Good Afternoon,

 

As an ACTUAL captain (not with Costa), let me please explain the following things:

 

1) Costa Cruises takes Safety as their number 1 priority.

 

2) Costa Cruises participates in regular audits by the Insurer company (RINA), State of registry (Italy) and internal by Carnival Group.

 

3) Training of italian officers is top notch and for the sake of "Deckofficer" tbheir curriculum is more thorough than any Dutch or US Maritime academy teaches.

 

3) Costa crew members hold thorough drills at regular intervals, just like any other major cruise line.

 

4) All SOLAS regulations have been complied with regarding emergency drills onboard Costa Concordia.

 

4) "Deckofficer" has no clue what he/she is talking about, is certainly NOT a professional and should refrain from commenting about things he/she has no knowledge of.

 

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: PLEASE, let the Accident Investigation teams do their jobs. DO NOT critisize Crew/ Company/ Passengers without proper knowledge of the accident. You have no authority, nor the knowledge to do so.

 

IN ANY evacuation during a serious accident, there is panic. This is unavoidable due to the law of masses. (Deckofficer should know this:rolleyes:)

 

Yours sincerly,

 

Despegue

Captain

Chairman TCAS ( Aviation and Maritime Safety)

 

Hello,

I appreciate that you of course want to defend fellow ship officers, however, your analysis fails to say that Costa captains and officers and crew are all humans. As such they are not infallible and thus prone as we all are to make mistakes at times.

 

We are told that most aircraft crashes happen because of pilot error - so what makes you think that ship disasters cannot ever be down to such errors? No matter how well they are trained and how careful they can be most of the time, various events can happen that would force them to think outside the box and maybe get it wrong.

 

It would seem on first evidence that the Concordia was not where she should have been and was navigating between two points that were not fit for a ship of her size.

[Shogun]

Hi All,

 

Very sad that two bodies were recovered today, however news is saying divers can here noise coming from what they think are trapped passengers lets pray they are correct.

 

These divers are risking their own lives to help others.

 

 

I like many will haver seen the captain speaking on TV, what I have not seen and those in Italy might

 

has he said sorry, has he said anything about the lose of life, lose of his ship etc,

 

all I have seen was that he did nothing wrong, charts at fault, I was last to leave ete.

 

yours Shogun

[foxesden1]

There were about 100 Russians on board the Concordia. According to Russian state TV Vesti, Concordia officers were seen drunk and partying before the accident by one of the Russian passengers.

 

This might explain why the Captain snuck off like a drunk driver before anyone could get a breathlyzer sample from him.

 

I also said he must have been drinking to my husband. :eek: I was on the bridge last week of a CCL ship ( behind the scenes tour) and I asked about drinking.. 0.08 for staff and 0.04 for officers is what I was told was the legal limit.

 

But then in the bars, I saw on entertainer getting bought drinks all night...

[Highlander0108]

Also, could the initial malfunction be similar to what the Carnival Splendor experienced in 2010 off of the Mexican Riviera. The two ships are sister ships, and both had electrical malfunctions, that set off a series of events. The Splendor was towed back to the United States.

Rick

 

I have to correct you on the Splendor event. It was not an "electrical" event, but a catastrophic engine failure that caused the fire, which in turn melted all the electrical wiring in the ships main busbar, rendering the ship unable to return to port on her own. With the busbar damaged, power from the diesel/gen units in the second engine room could not be rerouted to propulsion and hotel services. (this incident exposed an issue that engineers had not contemplated, loosing the busbar, which made the fact that the second engine room, separated by design to cope with situations like that, useless)

 

Large diesel engines turn alternators that produce the ships power that is distributed to ship propulsion and hotel services. The engine failed rather dramatically, throwing the crank through the side of the engine and the resultant oil caught on fire and burned so intensely, everything melted. They had absolutely no power for a period of time and the ship was dark. Much has been written on this subject. Concordia, on the otherhand, looked pretty lit up to be operating only on emergency power.

[Topsham]

They turned too late hitting from midship to the aft and right away they dropped anchor as soon as they could slow spinning the ship.

 

The lights went out because when you rip a hole that massive...I'm going to guess the auto-closing flood doors failed or would do little good when you tear a 100+ foot gouge in a boat this big. Clearly water was able to slosh to the starboard side causing the ship to list, so the integrity of the flood control system failed or was damaged.

 

 

The anchor was not dropped. If it had been it would have held in the ship in one position once she had slowed to stop. She could not have drifted to the North East and then back onto the rocks.

 

The watertight doors do not require any power to be closed and yes, they would confine the flooding to the damaged compartmets... and this is exactly what took place and kept the ship mostly upright for quite a long time.

[deckofficer]

CruiseboyzGermany,

 

I don't begrudge any cruise line a profit, they would not be able to stay in business without profits. Also for the crew of 1000 or so, have no problem with paying wages for what the locale dictates. But for the officers, that is a different story. US, Britain, Germany, Netherlands, SA, and many other countries have excellent Maritime Academies for their graduates to be employed by shipping and cruise companies. Where I do draw the line is any cruise/shipping company sailing under a flag of convenience AND employing officers from countries that sell the flags of convenience. And you cruise passengers SHOULD for your own safety at sea feel the same way.

[ObscureAllure]

Firstly, I think there is a difference between crew and staff (officers). The most senior staff, who make operational decisions are, in a real sense, never 'off duty'. If there is an emergency the Captain and his deputy will have to take immediate control, be capable of making sober decisions and of convincing others that they are so capable, whatever the time of day or night. Their behaviour in public and crew areas is watched by passengers and crew 24/7 whether on duty or off. In that sense they are only 'off duty' when on leave, which is part of the reason they are well paid to enjoy relatively long periods of leave. Whether a Captain abstains totally from alcohol even in social situations is usually a matter for him or her but I have met several who do, and have admiration for their self-control. By never drinking and never being seen to be drinking they show respect for the high level of responsibility they carry and also protect themselves against the sort of questions which are now being asked of this Captain.

 

 

I see nothing wrong with a Captain having dinner with his girlfriend or wife and having a single glass of wine at the time, however I sincerelly doubt this report is remotely true because

 

1) No Captain would be sloshed drunk in a public dining room if for no other reason than that everyone on board would see it and have a fit.

 

2) Even if he WAS sitting at a dinner table in the dining room with a woman drinking something - how would anyone looking on know what he is drinking?

 

3) if he WAS drunk, blood tests would confirm it and it would be opened and closed case.

 

irregardless of all of these, I still would have no problem with my captain having a glass of wine at dinner. 99.9% of people are not drunk after a glass of wine. (I never drink and so would be considered a serious "light weight" and yet I can handle a glass of wine with dinner.) So long as he stayed in the legal limit and was not impared, I wouldn't see a problem with a glass of wine at dinner.

 

Also - if he WERE drinking (although I still believe this is just media blitzing) there are half a dozen other people on the bridge would would NOT be drunk and sane of judgement. If the Captain were sloshed and heading for a giant rock, I can't really see them all just going with the flow on that.

 

I think it's a crap accusation they are making to place any blame on him that they can. Next he'll have been in the crew quarters doing the naughter with the dancers and his mad moves will have made the ship rock to the side into the coral reef. :rolleyes:

 

If he is to blame, the facts will prove it. The same as if he is not to blame. The media needs to kepe their dramatic BS out of it.

[Enigm@]

We were booked on this cruise leaving Civitavechia on 1/27/12.

 

I have spent 4 hours on the phone and Costa has offered a refund and 30% off a future cruise.

 

Now we have had to make many alternative travel arrangements within a 2 week window and subject to higher fares.

 

What a poor offer, 30% off a future cruise?.

 

Not disagreeing with anything you say, but have you looked at MSC? They run similar itineries to Costa, similar dates, at similar or lower prices.

[Isklaar]

Hello,

I appreciate that you of course want to defend fellow ship officers, however, your analysis fails to say that Costa captains and officers and crew are all humans. As such they are not infallible and thus prone as we all are to make mistakes at times.

 

We are told that most aircraft crashes happen because of pilot error - so what makes you think that ship disasters cannot ever be down to such errors? .

 

Peterhof - where on earth in that post did Despegue say/suggest/imply that human error was not involved? He didn't. His post to me is quite clear. He is reiterating that 'FOREIGN' :rolleyes: ships are subject to stringent regulations too, in response to the racist, ridiculous and outrageous statement made earlier by Deck Officer.

To me the post is quite clear. And is very clear indeed on one thing - let the relevant authorities come to their conclusions, which may well be that this whole tragedy was as a result of human error. Or there may be more to it than we are aware just yet.

[Canadian Karebear]

Has nothing to do with any Insurance act, you just take out a policy to protect your future earnings. Lloyds will insure anything that you are willing to pay the premiums for.

 

Yes you are correct. Lloyds is the market for obscure things such as a licence. I believe the term you are seeking is "Business interruption" which basically covers loss of profit or earnings over a certain time (usually there is a cap on this). The Cruise line would carry this based on loss of their earnings, the captain MAY have this coverage on his licence, but in any case the wordings do not protect if there is a criminal intent involved. His being arrested would be considered a criminal activity/intent so the policy would be considered null and void. No insurance company carries coverage for criminal activity. It's a standard exclusion.

 

Lloyds has policies on weight fluctuations for celebrities, as well as legs of certain models. They do insure just about everything!

[Isklaar]

If he is to blame, the facts will prove it. The same as if he is not to blame. The media needs to kepe their dramatic BS out of it.

 

Exactly!

[scottcruises]

The anchor was not dropped. If it had been it would have held in the ship in one position once she had slowed to stop. She could not have drifted to the North East and then back onto the rocks.

 

The watertight doors do not require any power to be closed and yes, they would confine the flooding to the damaged compartmets... and this is exactly what took place and kept the ship mostly upright for quite a long time.

 

Do you know for a fact the anchor wasn't dropped?

[QM1]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

[Red Mini Stapler]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

but at least they're home safe, right? :)

[foxesden1]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

Thank god they are home safe!

[montana cowboy]

My DW and I desided that since we practice a exit strategy for our house if its on fire that we would do the same when we go on our next cruise. It only takes a few minutes. I also like the muster drills that take you out to where your life boat station is asigned.

[Canadian Karebear]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

So glad to hear this great news! My friends are also safe, we have been emailing back and forth and they are tired, sad and empty however, they are alive which is the most important thing.

[Isklaar]

My DW and I desided that since we practice a exit strategy for our house if its on fire that we would do the same when we go on our next cruise. It only takes a few minutes.

 

This is a very good point. I always do that when I'm staying in a hotel, but it never occurred to me to do the same on a cruise ship (doh!). I will be sure to do that next time I'm on a cruise.

[Thoie]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

Good to hear, and as good an argument for bringing nightwear as I've ever heard!

[Isklaar]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

Great news, your friend must be so relieved to have them home.

[ObscureAllure]

I just got words that the parents of a friend of mine were on board. They arrived in Germany in their pyjamas!

 

 

 

Oh my goodness! At least they are home, safe. It all must have happened at least remotely fast for so many people to have been in their pajamas as we are hearing. I wish that some other person even on the plane or anywhere had been nice enough to offer them clothes, though. I'd be mighty embarrassed in my PJs.

 

My husband always teases you should never sleep naked just in case there is an emergency and you aren't forced to run outside in your birthday suit. :D

 

Glad they are safe, QM1.

[Canadian Karebear]

My DW and I desided that since we practice a exit strategy for our house if its on fire that we would do the same when we go on our next cruise. It only takes a few minutes. I also like the muster drills that take you out to where your life boat station is asigned.

 

As we can't do much about this disaster, we could certainly learn from it. When you get on a ship, don't feel like it could never sink. Human error happens, mechanical failure happens, many things could happen on a cruise that is out of your control.

 

I take this as being a great learning curve for recognizing where the life boats are, exits, pay more attention at the life boat drill, and understand that sometimes you need to realize that you are in control only over your actions in the event of a peril.

 

I really hope that they find others safe, and feel very sorry for the families that are dealing with their loss.

 

There seems to be alot of speculation over what happened, and at this point it's all just that, speculation. The media is reporting what they can which is great, but we may not know the full story for a few weeks, perhaps even months.