Poll: Manhattan or Brooklyn?

[remixernyc]

I voted Brooklyn, easier to get to for me.... and I'm sure they'll make the area a bit more presentable if the terminal is built there... I work in Manhattan so I'd prefer to avoid the headache of traveling into the city..... and the NYC skyline is nothing special anymore....... :(

[Rotterdam]

LOL - remixer...you've been on Staten Island too long. To say that the Manhattan sjkyline isn't special anymore is surely short sided, jaded & misleading.

 

The Empire State,the Chrysler, the Woolworth are just a few of the great & notable architectual gems that entertain & amaze millions of people each year(for many mnay years).

 

Convenience is one thing, class & classics are in a category all their own.

 

A transatlantic starting in Red Hook....I think not!

[remixernyc]

LOL - remixer...you've been on Staten Island too long. To say that the Manhattan sjkyline isn't special anymore is surely short sided, jaded & misleading.

 

I not disagreeing with that!!!!! It was just my opinion that when you've seen the skyline & traveled into manhattan 3,000 times it's become nothing special.... again just my personal opinion but our skyline resembles any other city now.... you'd still be able to see lower manhattan & statue of liberty & verrazano bridge if the cruise departed from Brooklyn anyways....

[CGT]

you'd still be able to see lower manhattan & statue of liberty & verrazano bridge if the cruise departed from Brooklyn anyways....

 

But those things are NOT what makes the view. What makes the view is the profile you get while sailing up and down the Hudson. Anyone who says anything else is ignorant or a liar, let's not kid ourselves here.

[remixernyc]

But those things are NOT what makes the view. What makes the view is the profile you get while sailing up and down the Hudson. Anyone who says anything else is ignorant or a liar, let's not kid ourselves here.

Hey I'm not ignorant or a liar... that's not nice to say.... I sailed up & down the hudson on my last 3 cruises..... is it nice??? yes.... is it a cool thing???? of course..... will that make or break my next cruise??? of course not..... would I like it to be a bit more convenient getting to & from the pier, when I deal with manhattan traffic everyday to & from work? yes.... this was a Manhattan or Brooklyn poll, I voted & stated my reasons.... it's just my opinion.... :)

[CGT]

Hey I'm not ignorant or a liar... that's not nice to say.... I sailed up & down the hudson on my last 3 cruises..... is it nice??? yes.... is it a cool thing???? of course..... will that make or break my next cruise??? of course not..... would I like it to be a bit more convenient getting to & from the pier, when I deal with manhattan traffic everyday to & from work? yes.... this was a Manhattan or Brooklyn poll, I voted & stated my reasons.... it's just my opinion.... :)

 

I wasn't speaking of you when I said "ignorant or liar", but I figured you'd probably take it that way. You never claimed those things that you mentioned "made the view." But anyway, will it make or break your next cruise? No. You live here. Will Brooklyn be a huge disappointment for people who do not live here (and for many that do?) YES. Does it ruin tradition and throw away history? YES.

 

P.S. Why do you deal with Manhattan traffic? Take the Ferry and use the subway!

[remixernyc]

I wasn't speaking of you when I said "ignorant or liar", but I figured you'd probably take it that way.

No worries!!!!

P.S. Why do you deal with Manhattan traffic? Take the Ferry and use the subway!

well the express bus usually takes about 1½ hours, I don't live close to the ferry, so it would end up taking longer.... local SI bus to boat to subway????? I've done it..... forget it!!!!! :)

[guernseyguy]

I sailed up & down the hudson on my last 3 cruises

 

Remixernyc,I think the point is that while Brooklyn may be an appropriate departure point for a cruise it is not for a crossing - especially on a line marketed so heavily on 'heritage'.

 

Peter, Crossing tomorrow.

[Vic The Parrot]

.... and I'm sure they'll make the area a bit more presentable if the terminal is built there...

 

 

Sorry to interrupt, but 'THEY' who??

 

 

Will the residents of that area chip in, and beautify the surroundings? It can't be the local govt. They sat around, and did nothing to upgrade the West Side piers, and look what happened.

 

I've passed thru Red Hook, and wouldn't want to be caught dead there. Give it time....

 

After a few hundred complaints from Cunard pax, (or after a few murders) I'm sure that guy at Princess will be looking for a new job. Unless he CAN PROVE he was in the area, and deemed it reasonable. Otherwise, time will tell.

 

That's my side, and I'm sticking with it.

[Vic The Parrot]

As far as convenience goes,I agree with Rotterdam.

 

 

I live in New Jersey, and I sacrifice 'convenience' for the thrill and pleasure of sailing from the West Side piers.

 

There's nothing else that can compare with sailing from the NYPST. The views, and other North River traffic. I'm booked to sail from Cape Liberty (Bayonne) on the Zenith in September.

 

It's not happening for personal reasons, but I'd still try using the Bayonne port to satisfy my curiousity on why 2 major cruise lines would just give up on the NYPST.

 

I, for one, can't fathom why those two lines decide that the West Side piers aren't adequate enough to handle the load of pax

using those facilities. For a comparision, look at San Diego.

 

San Diego has only 1 pier to accommodate all the lines sailing from there. And they do it with a flourish for some reason.

How come, the old West Side piers ( 3 OF THEM!!) CAN'T do the same thing, with the similiar sized ships???

 

Is it because the piers are 'rusty and dull' ... do they smell... only food vendors are selling hotdogs and chips.....

 

In my honest opinion, those piers are STILL adequate enough to serve the bigger ships. I've seen it happen, and the system STILL WORKS! I just think it's a pissing match between Carnival, and RCI.

 

And to those who are sailing from NYPST this weekend, I'd love to hear a report on the situation over there.

[remixernyc]

Sorry to interrupt, but 'THEY' who??

 

Will the residents of that area chip in, and beautify the surroundings?

meaning the terminal will be built up nice even tho the surroundings might not be that desireable..... take Atlantic City for instance.... :)

[CGT]

meaning the terminal will be built up nice even tho the surroundings might not be that desireable..... take Atlantic City for instance.... :)

 

If Atlantic City is the best analogy then the Brooklyn piers really ARE crap!

[remixernyc]

If Atlantic City is the best analogy then the Brooklyn piers really ARE crap!

but the point is the casinos are bustling even tho the surrounding area is crap!!!!!! guess I'm also assuming that if they're gonna bother having ships depart from brooklyn, there will be a modern terminal, or at least more modern than the west side piers....... :)

[CGT]

but the point is the casinos are bustling even tho the surrounding area is crap!!!!!! guess I'm also assuming that if they're gonna bother having ships depart from brooklyn, there will be a modern terminal, or at least more modern than the west side piers....... :)

 

Oh there will be, but the money could be better spent at the West Side Piers.

[signman]

Today I received a little QM2 brochure advertising some upcoming fall cruises. The cover shows the ship in the Hudson, just past lower Manhattan, with Lady Liberty on the left side of the photo, extremely close to QM2. Much closer than in reality, but in the bottom right corner is the caption "The voyage of a lifetime begins in New York" A year from now they will have to do much more photoshopping of this view to still say that with a straight face.

[mtbny7]

No matter how one feels about Broooklyn vs Manhattan as a location for a new pier the fact is that they are just different parts of New York City, the biggest city in New York State.

 

So the Cunard brochures will be correct in saying "New York" as the port of departure and/or arrival.

 

Michael

[Richard Schmidt]

CGT,

First off, you'd make a GREAT trial lawyer, because you demonstrate an understanding that trials (really just debates in front of 12 strangers) are television, not radio. Said differently, a picture or two is worth a thousand words. Your pictures said it all. Nice closing argument, and you win. Red Hook stinks as the next home of Cunard. I traveled to Red Hook in 2000 to study their Community Court Project. The place was a crime-ridden wreck then. Your pictures make it clear it remains so.

 

Richard

[guernseyguy]

Although I have done it before, for me, one of the, if not the highlight of my recent trip was sailing up the Hudson, past the skyscrapers of downtown, then on to mid town & finally docking near Times Square - all the while the sun rising behind Manhattan - The bridge & Statue of Liberty are nice support acts, but Manhattan is the Star. Brooklyn will simply not be anywhere near as good.

 

I also heard onboard that as far as anyone is aware, the transfer is permanent, not temporary. Yes, the Manhattan Piers need investment - if nothing else they need to be longer to accomodate the QM2 - but I seriously doubt I will be taking trans-Atlantic crossings to Brooklyn.:(

 

Peter

[mtbny7]

G'guy,

 

Do you really mean to say that because of the new location of the pier you will no longer take and enjoy a transAtlantic crossing?

 

Michael

[guernseyguy]

G'guy,

Do you really mean to say that because of the new location of the pier you will no longer take and enjoy a transAtlantic crossing?

Michael

 

Michael,

 

If 'Getting There is Half the Fun', I guess 'There' is the other half....while I'm not saying 'never', Cunard have significantly reduced the chances of me sailing with them - sailing up the Hudson was so magcal, the prospect of hanging a right at the Staue of Liberty and missing all that would weigh very heavily in my calculation - heck. go on some other (much cheaper) barge into Fort Lauderdale - at least you don't freeze on deck!

 

Peter

[Paul NH]

I can underscore the above mindset. When I was reviewing cruise options, those that did not depart from the Manhattan Piers went way down on the list. One of the reasons I selected an eastbound crossing was because I could enjoy the skyline sail-by at the beginning of the trip, rather than the end. I am pretty certain we would not be sailing next month on the QM2 if it was already departing from Red Hook. It simply lacks sizzle.

 

Sometimes companies underestimate the impact of some of their decisions until the damage is done. I would love to hear a synopsis from a company representative of Carnival/Princess/Cunard on this board on:

 

- what really lead to this decision in the first place, (was it the condition of the piers, or a drive to consolidate all of Carnival's ships to one pier location for "cost efficiency.")

 

- how did they do their trade-off analysis between Manhattan and Red Hook piers,

 

- whether they surveyed their client base on this decision, and

 

- whether they intend to return the QM2 to Manhattan after the piers are refurbished or whether the decision is final, for Red Hook.

 

I believe it is likely a sizeable percentage do not care about the departure point - but - there obviously is a sizeable percentage that does. Can Cunard afford to lose a chunk of their customer base that values tradition and/or the dazzle of the Manhattan skyline? I am an ocean liner buff, and a big reason I am taking the QM2 is because of the traditional New York to Southampton route that generations before us used (including my grandparents).

 

Take away the key Cunard traditions, and all you have left is another homogenized cruise line just like all the others.

[UK Geoff]

The skyline might not be special to you any more, but to this English traveller who will be sailing on the QM2 from NYC back to Southampton in October, it is an eagerly awaited experience.

 

I've never been to New York, so the skyline (with or without the twin towers) & the Statue of Liberty, are still one of the must see experiences.

 

Sorry, but Brooklyn looks just like the East End Docks in London to me - shabby

[gracecarmo]

UK Geoff: if you are on the Oct.8 sailing, come and join in on our Roll Call for this sailing. If you go to Roll Calls, and click on Other Cruise Lines Roll Calls, you should get to our thread. So far, there are only two of us posting...we need you!

 

Grace

[mtbny7]

These choices are usually made to increase profits; and are thought out very well.

 

Some passengers hate the Brooklyn idea, some don't care, and a small few are for it.

 

Facts: the percentage of passengers who hate the idea who are complaining (out in the real world away from CC) is small. The percentage who will complain (in writing) directly to the company about it are very small. The percentage who are not going to sail becuase of it are even smaller.

 

Bottom line: Cunard uses the new Brooklyn pier and increases profits.

 

Michael

[Paul NH]

Facts: ... The percentage who are not going to sail because of it are even smaller.

Michael,

 

I agree with your other observations, but the quote above may be inaccurate. It remains to be seen what influence Brooklyn will have on their bookings. There is the silent majority that, as you point out, will not complain about it to the company. But when they are deciding with their wallets where to go on their vacation, a Brooklyn departure may throw someone's decision to some other cruise option or entirely to some other type of vacation.

 

If someone is going to put up with the hassle of driving into New York City, you might as well realize the benefit of getting the Manhattan skyline sail-by. I can personally attest that it weighed into my decision-making process.

 

Time will tell whether this was a bad decision or not. At a minimum, it seems like a risky one for Cunard if Brooklyn is permanent.

 

Paul