I Have Been Stewing about this for a Very Long Time.........

[sail7seas]

Let it go....the angst over the actions of an idiot have been far more detrimental to your health than the inappropriate actions were.

 

 

 

You stood up for yourself at the time, you reported his inappropriate actions...that is all you could do so leave it behind you....you'd be much better off laughing at the jerk than stewing over it all...if you don't see any humor in it then resolve never to mention or relive the situation again....your heart and your BP will thank you.

 

To relive the anger and frustration is to give him power over you in a negative way again and again.... letting it go is for you, not for him.

 

 

You are sooo correct. GReat Message!! Great Advice!!!

[sail7seas]

Judy,

 

Didn't have a chance to get on line this afternoon.

 

WOW - yes, you should still be upset over what happened. He was way out of line doing what he did. Did he think that you didn't know what you were doing and by showing you how to "adjust the speed and raise the elevation" that you might ask him to help you and pay for some professional help??

 

I have very severe arthritis of both knees and just had to get a series of shots in the left knee so that I can cruise in May. When I am able to use a treadmill, I can only go at a certain speed and can't do "hills" (steps can be a nightmare for me). So to have someone come over to me, stop the machine, and program it to his liking would infuriate me. The one thing I can't do after having the shots for a couple of weeks is "pounding" - no hard exercise and stay of stairs and inclines.

 

I have a low boiling point at times and I am afraid that I would have made mention of the incident to our concierge and I would also have been down to see the guest relations manager. After going through the channels on our last cruise over a couple of incidents (which I am not ready to talk about yet - still cooling down - another reason why we haven't booked any cruises after November), we did have to see the guest relations manager.

 

I am so glad that you know a lot of people that you could mention the incident to them and it was passed on by word of mouth.

 

 

 

KK.....I'm sorry to hear you are having a bad spell and treatments for your arthritis. I hope that the shots are effective and you fell better soon.

 

I am also sorry to hear you had upsetting incidents on your recent cruises. Funny how we both mentioned yesterday that we have few bookings in place and that is most unusual for us.

 

I'm looking forward to being on Maasdam in June and feel very hopeful we will have our usual wonderful time. I do intend to board with my usual high expectations and ready to have great cruise(s).

[stormyc]

To relive the anger and frustration is to give him power over you in a negative way again and again.... letting it go is for you, not for him.

 

I agree with this. Regardless of whether you truly believe that you handled the situation perfectly (you didn't get to rehearse it in advance, after all), by reliving this continually in your thoughts, you are maintaining a "link" with this person. I hope it has helped you to talk about it, and get honest feedback about the situation. Now, I would suggest you sincerely try to "unplug" from it forever. He isn't entitled to one more moment of your time or worry.

 

Hope you feel much better! :o

[Scrumpy]

No, you were not wrong. I wish I was more assertive in these kinds of situations and I admire your actions. There are some strange characters in the spa and fitness industry with a bizarre belief that they have superior knowledge or are somehow entitled to interfere with what people are doing with their own bodies. While I would not want to get anyone in trouble either, I think you did the right thing. I'd have stewed over it, ranted about it and probably let it ruin the rest of my day. Good for you.

Scrumpy

Was I wrong?

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

I have no way of knowing if he was ever spoken or anything else that may have happened.

[cruznon]

S7S,

 

I totally agree with the way you handled it. That "trainer" won't go around doing THAT again and in turn, you may have saved someone else a serious health situation in the future. What he did was not only rude, but quite dangerous.

Like you, I wouldn't want someone's employment in jeopardy, but his wreckless behavior could cause serious repercussions. (Not to have said something would have been neglectful.)

By speaking with those you did as long-time aquintances, you handled it with class and still made your point.

Nicely done, S7S.

[the2ofus]

S7S,

 

I think you handled the situation appropriately. You spoke to the people who would take your complaint seriously, knowing you as they did. I hope you can now give yourself permission to put it out of your mind.

 

While I have never had a situation as drastic or threatening as the one you encountered, I have been amazed at the arrogance of some men when seeing a woman in an equipment/exercise room.

 

I was reading a book as I bicycled, while waiting for my son to meet me. A man came up and told me I'd never get my heart rate up that way. I wasn't trying to, I just wanted to get a bit of exercise, do something useful, while I waited. (I wasn't occupying a bike someone else needed either, there were several vacant.)

 

When I travelled on business and used the hotel exercise facilities, men would try to advise me how to use the equipment. Guys even said "Leaving so soon, you haven't even begun to sweat." "Don't give up so easily." These can't have been pick-up lines, I wore a wedding ring, baggy sweats and was in my 50s. And I was pretty fit, so they should have guessed I knew what I was doing. I think some jock types are just plain arrogant.

[cheshire999]

Later in the cruise, we were talking with the HM who we know well. Casual chitchat and one subject let to another and I told him the story of what had happened. I honestly felt (and still do) that was not only nervy but dangerous. He was annoying me, then he was effecting my enjoyment and safety on an exercise machine and then he was arrogant. By now, I really didn't care what they did to him.

 

It has bothered me since.

I never want to get someone in trouble.

 

Was I wrong?

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

I have no way of knowing if he was ever spoken or anything else that may have happened.

 

 

 

 

Sail, I question just what kind of "trainer' he was. Most trained professionals wouldn't do this and it makes me wonder if he wasn't chosen more on his looks or pecs??? You handled it much better than I would have.

[tomc]

I think some jock types are just plain arrogant.

There are people who, in their humble estimation, think that what they do is what everyone should do. Whether that person wants to or can do.

 

I meet people who say, "You sit around reading a lot and when you walk, it's slowly; you should use the exercise room." Well, mayyyyybe there's a reason, and mayyyyybe it's none of your business (unsaid, because I'm polite on cruises ... so far). You try to put them off and they just become more insistent. You thank them for their suggestion and return to you reading.

[RichardK]

For those who have said that the "Chain of Command" does not apply to them because they are Customers and not Crew Members, I respectfully disagree. Consider how your actions COULD be interpreted (or misinterpreted):

 

*One could be deemed by high ranking officers to be spoiled or “whiney”, and certainly even more so by the people who were bypassed on the chain.

*One could be deemed as not wanting to deal with “commoners”

*One shows no respect to the immediate staff by letting them resolve the problem

*One shows no respect for the Officers in having them deal with the problem when they should be involved in other (maybe more important) matters

*EVERYBODY under the Officers, and in line right down to the Trainer, got an ear full deservedly so or not (trust me on that one!)

 

I was given a West Point “upbringing”. I know what the "Chain of Command" is, how to use it, and what its values are!! I also understand the Chain of Command in business nowadays. And please keep in mind that this hierarchical structure, otherwise known as “Chain of Command” is much more time honored and observed in the “Navy” – i.e., on Cruise Ships, whether we be passengers, customers, crew, etc.!!

 

Well just my final thoughts on the subject, and now like S7S I'll let it go too.........!!!

[Nliedel]

I am a personal trainer and no certification program I have ever been involved with would teach this. Yes I have upped my clients speeds/incline but they were *MY* clients. I had their medical histories and was working with them to help them reach their personal goals. It would have meant my position with the club had I done this. That said you should have gone to his superior and then up the line.

[sail7seas]

Thanks for all of your comments. I value them all.

[sail7seas]

I am a personal trainer and no certification program I have ever been involved with would teach this. Yes I have upped my clients speeds/incline but they were *MY* clients. I had their medical histories and was working with them to help them reach their personal goals. It would have meant my position with the club had I done this. That said you should have gone to his superior and then up the line.

 

 

I'm really happy to hear from you, Nliedel.

As a personal trainer, would you have even come up beside me while I was on the treadmill to simply chit-chat? That is how this whole situation began. I have wondered why he even approached me. (No...he wasn't 'coming on' to me. I entered the gym with my husband; I'm mid fifties and was on the treadmill beside my husband's.) Unless I asked for his help or was operating the machine improperly or dangerously, was it appropriate for him to even come over to me at all?

[tomc]

Trainer: "I want to change your settings."

s7s: "They are just the way I like them."

Trainer: "I'm the boss here."

s7s: "Let me introduce my husband. He just flunked his anger management course."

[sail7seas]

Tom....... GREAT!!! :D :D :D

[kruzkeen]

I did not want that trainer fired. I never want to be involved in a situation that causes a person their employment.

 

The man should have been fired. If, for your own reasons, you did not wish to go to the Steiner management that of course is your own call and nobody would fault you for it. As the man was not a HAL employee the ships officers might not have much influence.

 

It is doubtful if this was an isolated incident. The 'trainer' has probably behaved in this manner with other guests and they may not have taken more direct action. Who knows, he may already be fired.

 

I always think however we handle situations is just the right way for us at that time.

 

Ken

[ryansmemom]

For those who have said that the "Chain of Command" does not apply to them because they are Customers and not Crew Members, I respectfully disagree. Consider how your actions COULD be interpreted (or misinterpreted):

 

*One could be deemed by high ranking officers to be spoiled or “whiney”, and certainly even more so by the people who were bypassed on the chain.

*One could be deemed as not wanting to deal with “commoners”

*One shows no respect to the immediate staff by letting them resolve the problem

*One shows no respect for the Officers in having them deal with the problem when they should be involved in other (maybe more important) matters

*EVERYBODY under the Officers, and in line right down to the Trainer, got an ear full deservedly so or not (trust me on that one!)

 

I was given a West Point “upbringing”. I know what the "Chain of Command" is, how to use it, and what its values are!! I also understand the Chain of Command in business nowadays. And please keep in mind that this hierarchical structure, otherwise known as “Chain of Command” is much more time honored and observed in the “Navy” – i.e., on Cruise Ships, whether we be passengers, customers, crew, etc.!!

 

Well just my final thoughts on the subject, and now like S7S I'll let it go too.........!!!

 

 

Richard

 

I respectfully disagree with you. You may have been give a West Point education, however most of us have not and cannot be expected to live up to those standards. We live in a civilian world. Just as we are not expected to live in a world of military justice where one is presumed guilty until proved innocent, we need not concern ourselves with military standards. We are passengers not crew. In any profession there are professional standards and rules that professional are legally and morally obligated to follow. Those outside the profession are not in any way bound by those standards. How are civilians supposed to be aware of all of these rules. They do not have the benifit of professional training. In your case, West Point, in mine professional psychology.

 

As far as the ramifications of not following the chain of command or any other "breaking" of these rules by nonprofessionals, that is frankly irrelevant to the person who is not a professional. I would hope that the Officers and Crew would be professional enough to understand that they are dealing with passengers who are not part of the chain of command and base their evaluation of the situation and the person with that understanding. I know I always do that. I look at a breach of protocol differently if done by a fellow professional or a civilian. I know that I am not the only person with this level of professionalism. In my profession, a professional is subject to fines or delicensing, a civilian breach is ignored and understood as the action of an untrained person who is not subject to the same restrictions.

 

I think that you are being too hard on the civilians. We are out of the loop. We are not part of the system. I have more faith in the professional staff of Holland America. In my experience, every officer from the Captain on down must concerned with the saftey and welfare of the passengers.That, afterall, is the essence of their job. They are employed by Holland America to provide a safe, plesant cruise experience for the people who have paid for one and will hopefully return and pay for another cruise on a Holland America ship. I know this because on one cruise, the Captain, Chief Engineer, Hotel Manager and First Officer were all in my cabin tearing out bulkheads because of a noise we heard.

 

Those who know me all know that I am an incurable romantic. I love getting caught up in the romance of a cruise. However I am also a realist when necessary. There is nothing more important on these ships than the passengers. The Officers, no matter what their rank need to be concerned about them. That is their job. That is why they have staff meetings and keep vigilant regarding all passenger complaints. The Captains and Hotel Managers are executives in the business of keeping passengers safe and happy in to keep the company they work for afloat. They maintain disipline among the crew, not the passengers (unless they threaten the saftey of others.)

 

Respectfully, the experience you cite is military. This is not a military experience. It is a civilian experience. The rules are different for the passengers and for the Officers and Crew when they are relating to passengers.

 

Respectfully,

 

Linda

[ryansmemom]

[quote name=kruzkeen. As the man was not a HAL employee the ships officers might not have much influence.

 

 

 

Ken[/quote]

 

 

The Captain has absolute authority over who works on his ship. It is just like in the olden days as far as this goes. Actually, just like every other CEO if you are working on his turf, he has the right to fire you.

 

I was having my hair done by a Steiner hairdresser a few cruises ago whenone of their employees missed the ship in St Thomas. I asked her what the consequences would be for the employee. She said it was up to the Captain. He was the person with the authority to decide who worked on his ship. It was not her first offence. She was fired.

 

By the way, it is through conversations like this one that I know that high ranking officers are concerned with the day to day running of the ship and passenger concerns and problems.

 

Linda

[blackbird71]

Richard

 

 

Respectfully, the experience you cite is military. This is not a military experience. It is a civilian experience. The rules are different for the passengers and for the Officers and Crew when they are relating to passengers.

 

Respectfully,

 

Linda

 

And to add to what you said, S7S is a Freq. Cruiser on HAL and known by people like the HM. And in this case the HM started a conversion with S7S so her input as to the problem was very proper at the time. IMHO, being a Freq cruiser, even if she asked to speak to him, that would have also been proper.

[RuffinReady]

I really want your honest opinions. You won't insult me. I'm asking, so please respond............I never want to get someone in trouble.

 

Was I wrong?

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

 

S7S, Here is one more opinion. I think that you were too kind. Management of any enterprise, be it a ship or any other business cannot be expected to know everything that is going on and needs to hear from his "customers" when something is wrong. Of course, this also applies when something is right.

 

Your assessment in an earlier post is correct. Supposing you had had a heart attack because of his incompetent action? Just think how your DH would have felt if he had lost his DW due to this stupid oaf?

 

You have shown more consideration than this person deserves.

 

Ruffin

[Lisa63]

sail7seas, as I was reading your post, the first thing I thought of was your medical condition. I am sorry that you had to go through this, and I can understand why it's been on your mind for so long. I agree that you did the right thing in not keeping quiet about it. I am also relieved that you were not harmed physically.

[Ziggy7]

Sail--When did you take this cruise? Why are you stewing about it? It isn't doing your heart or blood pressure any good.

...I agree with Dave...You are the first to say...address the problem-take care of it right-away.

To just turn off a treadmill...The man is an imbicile and dangerous. You should have reported him as soon as you left the gym.

Don't let the small problems build into a big health problem for you.

Pat.

I totally agree Salty! You did nothing wrong Sail, perhaps you have saved a few pax from harm of this person :) Think of the positive side :) You did good not harm :)

[sail7seas]

sail7seas, as I was reading your post, the first thing I thought of was your medical condition. I am sorry that you had to go through this, and I can understand why it's been on your mind for so long. I agree that you did the right thing in not keeping quiet about it. I am also relieved that you were not harmed physically.

 

 

Thank you, Lisa.

 

There is no question I was more upset about this because of my heart conditon than I might have been prior to having developed heart issues. That made it a more dangerous thing to do to me.

 

 

I am very appreciative of all the comments here. I do feel alot better about my reporting it and am now ready to 'get over it'.

 

I am happy I asked the question. Thank you, all.

[Nliedel]

I'm really happy to hear from you, Nliedel.

 

As a personal trainer, would you have even come up beside me while I was on the treadmill to simply chit-chat? That is how this whole situation began. I have wondered why he even approached me. (No...he wasn't 'coming on' to me. I entered the gym with my husband; I'm mid fifties and was on the treadmill beside my husband's.) Unless I asked for his help or was operating the machine improperly or dangerously, was it appropriate for him to even come over to me at all?

 

 

it depends. I have worked at two clubs (before the baby explosion but I have kept up my ISSA Certification although not trained in over a year). At one club we are supposed to ruond up clients. I actually hated working there because I am not good at a hard sell. Then I would have tried to talk to you on a treadmill. Part of the job, but I am not too intrusive and can take a hint. At my favorite club? No, it was not allowed other than "I am working out, and you are working out and if you look like you are over your hear I might try to see if you are able to converse while exercising". You should be able to talk while working out, but not sing. If someone is huffing and puffing and unable to speak they are probably working too hard and it is a health issue of another color.

 

I would not be bothered about an employee speaking to you in a club. If you do not wish to have the conversation do what I do on planes, "It's nice to meet you. I have had a horrible week, if it's OK I am just going to _________" (read book, listen to music.. etc). Which should stop the conversation dead. If it does not "I am sorry, but I do not wish to have a conversation now" will do it.

 

I suspect he thought he was genuinly being "helpful, friendly etc" but is just a clueless person who is in the wrong profession. It is much more than pushig someone to look like "JoLo", or being a cheerleader, or getting your free membership to the club. It's knowing when to push, when someone really wants change or is just posing etc. It is knowing how to push people to get the best out of them etc and work the body in a way that gets results without injury. I left computer training to become a personal trainer because I love what exercise did for me. It was a step down in pay and the hours stink (people work out first thing in the am or last thing at night and you have to be there for both) but it was so rewarding. Someday I will go back to work as a trainer again.

[lknick]

Sail, in my mind, if you expect service levels as a consumer, you must draw deficiencies to management’s attention. Without knowing the elements requiring training and the personnel requiring attention, there is nothing they can do.