Costa Concordia SINKING!

[MorganMars]

I would say that it may be useful to remember that Jesus was tried in the court of public opinion.

 

Hi Guys

 

In the immortal words of The Terminator: "I'M BACK". I've been busy carrying out the duties and obligations of my primary Cruise Critic mission, co-ordination of four Cruise Critic Roll Calls. :eek:

 

Anyway, the above posts regarding differing ideological views and primary sources of news/information got me wondering. Are those factors related to our apparent divide on whether it is proper to judge actions of others in a court of public opinion or whether that is being too judgemental ? :confused:

 

For myself, I believe in a society's right and duty to judge the actions of others in a court of public opinion, separate and apart from the judicial system. All three of the TVs in my home are pre set with Fox News as the primary channel. ;)

 

What say you ?

 

John

[cruiserfanfromct]

Thanks for these links Mary!

 

I noticed that all but one of these "flybys" were during daylight hours and only one at dusk. Manually navigating in the pitch black with distractions on the bridge can take its toll, as we've seen the disastrous results.

 

Since there was no annoucement by Schettino to his passengers alerting them of the "flyby" and it was winter and dark on Giglio with only one hotel in operation on the island, to whose benefit was this "flyby" anyway? Palumbo (former captain) claims he wasn't even on the island that night. Did he like the food so much that he risked all to please the head waiter? Something is very fishy here. ;)

 

Videos of other "flybys" on other islands:

 

Procida in August 2010: This one was advertised on the official blog of Costa Cruises.

 

Island of Ischia June 2011

 

Sorrento

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWbIKQTKlhY&feature=youtu.be

Stomboli

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kTHWW2rmKo&feature=youtu.be

Messina

 

I suspect that this is going to come down to a navigational error, which is the responsibility of the Captain. He admitted to not knowing the position of his ship in early statements. First rule of navigation is to know where you are.

 

Regards,

Mary

[Tranquil Waters]

I would say that it may be useful to remember that Jesus was tried in the court of public opinion.

 

I believe he was tried in Pontias Pilate's court? And we know how that worked out. So I am thinking perhaps public opinion is not the worst that can happen.

 

And that is assuming that you really want to put idle chatter on a cruise site on the same level as Christ......

[glrounds]

I would say that it may be useful to remember that Jesus was tried in the court of public opinion.

 

I believe he was tried in Pontias Pilate's court? And we know how that worked out. So I am thinking perhaps public opinion is not the worst that can happen.

 

And that is assuming that you really want to put idle chatter on a cruise site on the same level as Christ......

 

If my bible lore serves me well, Pontius Pilate "washed his hands" of the trial of Jesus, saying he could find nothing wrong with his actions. He even gave the "mob" [read: public opinion] the choice of freeing Barabas, a convicted killer, or Jesus, fully well expecting them to free Jesus. He was wrong.

 

[MorganMars]

I believe he was tried in Pontias Pilate's court? And we know how that worked out. So I am thinking perhaps public opinion is not the worst that can happen.

 

And that is assuming that you really want to put idle chatter on a cruise site on the same level as Christ......

 

All the gospels recount that Pilate can find nothing against Jesus, but the crowd selects Barrabas to be spared, so Pilate washes his hands of the matter. You asked what people would say and that is always my first thought when people talk about the "court of public opinion," so I answered you honestly and frankly. Sorry if it offends you.

 

MorganMars

[Hebersgyll]

Videos of other "flybys" on other islands:

 

Procida in August 2010: This one was advertised on the official blog of Costa Cruises.

 

Island of Ischia June 2011

 

Sorrento

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWbIKQTKlhY&feature=youtu.be

Stomboli

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kTHWW2rmKo&feature=youtu.be

Messina

 

I suspect that this is going to come down to a navigational error, which is the responsibility of the Captain. He admitted to not knowing the position of his ship in early statements. First rule of navigation is to know where you are.

 

Regards,

Mary

 

Well, who was the good-looking lady on the Sorrento clip, Mary? She definitely had that 'come hither' look about her. I, for one, would not have kept her waiting for too long! (Thanks for posting the clips, by the way. They were incredibly boring but Miss Sorrento certainly made the viewing well worthwhile!)

 

As for all that ship horn-blowing, .................aren't there any rules prohibiting that? How's a chap supposed to read his newspaper with all that row going on?

[MorganMars]

well, who was the good-looking lady on the sorrento clip, mary? She definitely had that 'come hither' look about her. I, for one, would not have kept her waiting for too long! (thanks for posting the clips, by the way. They were incredibly boring but miss sorrento certainly made the viewing well worthwhile!)

 

as for all that ship horn-blowing, .................aren't there any rules prohibiting that? How's a chap supposed to read his newspaper with all that row going on?

 

No idea who she was. Maybe you can look her up on your next cruise to Italy. :D

[MorganMars]

Thanks for these links Mary!

 

I noticed that all but one of these "flybys" were during daylight hours and only one at dusk. Manually navigating in the pitch black with distractions on the bridge can take its toll, as we've seen the disastrous results.

 

Since there was no annoucement by Schettino to his passengers alerting them of the "flyby" and it was winter and dark on Giglio with only one hotel in operation on the island, to whose benefit was this "flyby" anyway? Palumbo (former captain) claims he wasn't even on the island that night. Did he like the food so much that he risked all to please the head waiter? Something is very fishy here. ;)

 

The videos are probably not a true representation of the number or conditions of the flybys. Perhaps passengers and islanders prefer to film in daylight.

The only report that I have read as to a possible answer to your question is the one interview with investigative reporter for LA REPUBBLICA, Carlo Bonini, that said he knows of an email from Schettino to another captain saying he could get closer to the island than that captain had.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/02/02/f-fifth-estate-concordia.html

 

MorganMars

[Tranquil Waters]

All the gospels recount that Pilate can find nothing against Jesus, but the crowd selects Barrabas to be spared, so Pilate washes his hands of the matter. You asked what people would say and that is always my first thought when people talk about the "court of public opinion," so I answered you honestly and frankly. Sorry if it offends you.

 

MorganMars

 

I do not recall having said I was offended in any way. That is a judgement that you are making. I just do not think there is anything wrong with cruise site speculation as to events or fault. We have not been placed in the judges seat. We are therefore free to discuss at will.

 

As to Pilate he was the one given the charge of deciding Christ's fate. The fact that he offered Jesus as one of the potential recipients of the season's "release" program and the people chose Barrabas has nothing to do with "court of public opinion". The people simply chose who to have freed - they were not asked who was guilty. And a little gold didn't hurt......

 

Apples and oranges.

[Hebersgyll]

No idea who she was. Maybe you can look her up on your next cruise to Italy. :D

 

That sounds a good idea, Mary, so maybe I'll do that. Just one or two logistical difficulties though, like giving dearly beloved the slip, finding a ship that's not employed by on-shore quarries to keeep someone's finger on the ship's klaxon button as it sails by, and ensuring that the ship's captain is not related to Captain Calamity in any way!

 

Funnily enough, I had a good look tonight at a 17 day MSN (?) Melody cruise from Genoa to the Black Sea & return. Very good fare rates & The Black Sea is high on my wish list.....Only thing is the ship seems to have been built before balconys were invented (though no big issue in March) and the photos of the cabins put me in mind of a '50's TV sit com - green check covers!

 

Sometimes, a great price may not necessarily add up to a great deal? Unless someone can tell me different?

[cruiserfanfromct]

Thanks - that seems like the most plausible answer. I guess he also needed witnesses on the bridge to vouch on how close he got. Bet that's one email he wishes he would have never hit the send button.

 

The videos are probably not a true representation of the number or conditions of the flybys. Perhaps passengers and islanders prefer to film in daylight.

The only report that I have read as to a possible answer to your question is the one interview with investigative reporter for LA REPUBBLICA, Carlo Bonini, that said he knows of an email from Schettino to another captain saying he could get closer to the island than that captain had.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/02/02/f-fifth-estate-concordia.html

 

MorganMars

[SomeBeach]

That sounds a good idea, Mary, so maybe I'll do that. Just one or two logistical difficulties though, like giving dearly beloved the slip, finding a ship that's not employed by on-shore quarries to keeep someone's finger on the ship's klaxon button as it sails by, and ensuring that the ship's captain is not related to Captain Calamity in any way!

 

Funnily enough, I had a good look tonight at a 17 day MSN (?) Melody cruise from Genoa to the Black Sea & return. Very good fare rates & The Black Sea is high on my wish list.....Only thing is the ship seems to have been built before balconys were invented (though no big issue in March) and the photos of the cabins put me in mind of a '50's TV sit com - green check covers!

 

Sometimes, a great price may not necessarily add up to a great deal? Unless someone can tell me different?

 

The decor you described sent me to MSC to check them out. Some eye opening colors for the staterooms on a few different ships (Melody & Poesia) I looked at. :D

Can't tell you anything about the line but maybe if you pop in on the boards you can find some reviews.

[rubrrick]

Here is longer, than the most recent photo of her. So it may be an older picture.

 

I guess that I just have not sailed (cruised) as many times as some of you here, but the pictures of the captain at the helm, well, maybe they do it differently in Italy, and I have only been on the bridge for maybe 100 or so "departures" or "approaches to docking", and have.......and I repeat, NEVER.......seen a captain at a helmsman's wheel!

 

The captain (or pilot) gives the orders, and the quartermaster, repeats the command (I won't go in to the entire drill....those that know will confirm this) and then manually maneuvers the helm (steering wheel, for the land lubbers) to the exact course dictated.

 

If anyone has spent time on the Queen's old royal yacht, now docked in Edinburgh, Scottland, would know that the captain.....or the Admiral had no controls on the bridge, and the wheelhouse was a deck below, facing sideways!

 

Modern age.........that is no longer the way that large yachts, and cruise ships are handled today.

 

The master has the controls to maneuver the ship away from the dock, with controls mounted on both bridge wings........but once he/she steps away from those controls, it becomes a command, reverberated command, voiced at least three times as the command takes place.

 

I won't go into the different instruments that the captain has at his disposal, all to make intelligent decisions, and pass them on to the quartermaster, when dealing with the vessel at close quarters. But he is not at the quartermasters station......as the picture protrays, and be able to study all of the instruments at hand to make correct decisions.

 

I'm sure that there will be those among us that will dissagree with this statement.

 

As a pilot, I made all decisions and acted according to my instruments, as they were directly in front of me. The quartermaster does not have that ability, on any ship that I have been invited to visit the bridge.

 

Rick

[mickey_d_mouse]

http://www.portofmelbourne.com/cruiseshipping/cruiseschedule.aspx

 

Okay my fellow cruise experts, I have just seen the psychologist and he thinks I should try to get ON a cruise ship again sooner rather than later. So the above is a link to cruise ships in the Port of Melbourne ( where I live) could people please look at the ones staying late in the evening or weekends starting from the last weekend in Feb and tell me which are owned by Carnival who own Costa and are similar in size etc to the Concordia so I can ask Carnival nicely if I can go visit.

 

Thanks

[rubrrick]

That sounds a good idea, Mary, so maybe I'll do that. Just one or two logistical difficulties though, like giving dearly beloved the slip, finding a ship that's not employed by on-shore quarries to keeep someone's finger on the ship's klaxon button as it sails by, and ensuring that the ship's captain is not related to Captain Calamity in any way!

 

Funnily enough, I had a good look tonight at a 17 day MSN (?) Melody cruise from Genoa to the Black Sea & return. Very good fare rates & The Black Sea is high on my wish list.....Only thing is the ship seems to have been built before balconys were invented (though no big issue in March) and the photos of the cabins put me in mind of a '50's TV sit com - green check covers!

 

Sometimes, a great price may not necessarily add up to a great deal? Unless someone can tell me different?

 

The Melody is one of our favorites! Before MSC purchased the ship, it was the Big Red Boat.....run for Disney.

 

I don't know if it still happens, but when the ship used to have a bit of a problem at a dock......the white paint was rubbed off.......to show red underneath. Many days, at dock, the painters were keeping the hull white!:D

 

The best suites.....then were 4 Owners Suites on each side of the ship. They had living rooms, a walk in closet that was the size of a small inside cabin, and a seperate bedroom.

 

We had more fun on the Melody......a great ship, and yes, built before balconies were popular.

 

We have been agound twice on the Melody, both times at dock. We have had one pony engine blow up on us, and it took the mechanics aboard just over 4 hours to rebuild it, and have it running. As I recall, it was in Antigua harbor.

 

Book it.........you will love the Melody, and it has great Mediterranian ports of call.:)

 

Rick

[SomeBeach]

http://www.portofmelbourne.com/cruiseshipping/cruiseschedule.aspx

 

Okay my fellow cruise experts, I have just seen the psychologist and he thinks I should try to get ON a cruise ship again sooner rather than later. So the above is a link to cruise ships in the Port of Melbourne ( where I live) could people please look at the ones staying late in the evening or weekends starting from the last weekend in Feb and tell me which are owned by Carnival who own Costa and are similar in size etc to the Concordia so I can ask Carnival nicely if I can go visit.

 

Thanks

 

You've got Princess and those *Dam* ships of Holland America. ;)

Size wise, I don't know how they compare to Concordia.

[captainmcd]

I guess that I just have not sailed (cruised) as many times as some of you here, but the pictures of the captain at the helm, well, maybe they do it differently in Italy, and I have only been on the bridge for maybe 100 or so "departures" or "approaches to docking", and have.......and I repeat, NEVER.......seen a captain at a helmsman's wheel!

 

The captain (or pilot) gives the orders, and the quartermaster, repeats the command (I won't go in to the entire drill....those that know will confirm this) and then manually maneuvers the helm (steering wheel, for the land lubbers) to the exact course dictated.

 

If anyone has spent time on the Queen's old royal yacht, now docked in Edinburgh, Scottland, would know that the captain.....or the Admiral had no controls on the bridge, and the wheelhouse was a deck below, facing sideways!

 

Modern age.........that is no longer the way that large yachts, and cruise ships are handled today.

 

The master has the controls to maneuver the ship away from the dock, with controls mounted on both bridge wings........but once he/she steps away from those controls, it becomes a command, reverberated command, voiced at least three times as the command takes place.

 

I won't go into the different instruments that the captain has at his disposal, all to make intelligent decisions, and pass them on to the quartermaster, when dealing with the vessel at close quarters. But he is not at the quartermasters station......as the picture protrays, and be able to study all of the instruments at hand to make correct decisions.

 

I'm sure that there will be those among us that will dissagree with this statement.

 

As a pilot, I made all decisions and acted according to my instruments, as they were directly in front of me. The quartermaster does not have that ability, on any ship that I have been invited to visit the bridge.

 

Rick

 

Correct! That is what I said in post #426 on this thread. This is an interesting discussion,and I like reading it, but cringe at some of the terminology and lack of understanding of how ships are operated.

[SomeBeach]

http://www.repubblica.it/

 

I'm going to hate myself for doing since we just got away from *her* but here goes. If you go to the link, scan down to the Concordia headline, you will see, "Video, la danza di Dominica."

Enjoy... or not. :rolleyes:

[rubrrick]

http://www.portofmelbourne.com/cruiseshipping/cruiseschedule.aspx

 

Okay my fellow cruise experts, I have just seen the psychologist and he thinks I should try to get ON a cruise ship again sooner rather than later. So the above is a link to cruise ships in the Port of Melbourne ( where I live) could people please look at the ones staying late in the evening or weekends starting from the last weekend in Feb and tell me which are owned by Carnival who own Costa and are similar in size etc to the Concordia so I can ask Carnival nicely if I can go visit.

 

Thanks

 

Michelle, a quick word, as I know that you were on the Concordia, and your family, and you came off alive, with an event, that most of us will never face, so could not even begin to see it from your side, but am glad that your psychologist has suggested to once again be on a cruise ship.

 

Many here have had sayings, such as "if you get bucked off of a horse, you need to get back on, as soon as possible, or you will never ride a horse again."

 

First off, you are an incredible person, who has been willing to write about the adventure. I have the utmost respect for you, and thank you again for keeping so many of us informed.

 

So, how do you feel about trying to go back aboard a cruise ship? I hope that you are willing, as, even if you don't cruise again, to feel yourself aboard a ship, at harbor, would be a great step in the right direction, for your healing.

 

Then, maybe a cruise in and around Australia, or between Australia and New Zealand........would be a huge step in your healing process.

 

Thank you for all of your sharing......I think that is a huge part of overcoming the disaster that you experienced, just talking about it...and you have so many friends here on Cruise Critic, that love you and back you. We have not walked in your shoes! Again, thank you for sharing some parts of what it is like to walk in your shoes!;)

 

Rick

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I know this will get some response from Daveyjones:confused:

Apologies, once again I missed the cue !!! Must make mental note 'must try harder'

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Well, my comments were in response to CruisingMouse, who suggested that Schettino was up to no good with Cemorton and that he shouldn't have been socializing with her because he was married. My take on it is that I don't assume that sex or sexual desire is involved in every contact between the genders, and I don't think the matrimonial state requires an enforced separation of the sexes.

 

Look at the way you have phrased your comment. You state it like fact. "...because one individual's infactuation led to a disaster..." What is your evidence on either the alleged infactuation or that it led to a disaster? You and I know that there is no evidence...at least at this point. So you are making assumptions. And why are you making those assumptions?

I think that through her supposed statement 'I love him' kind of says it all. She admitted having 'feelings' for the Captain. Sure as heck if I had feelings for another woman my partner would not be a 'happy bunny' and react accordingly.

 

The olde saying 'there is no smoke without fire' springs to mind when I see the Dancer / Captain together, thats without Photoshop either lol

 

 

rgds to all

 

:):):)

[thawan]

http://www.portofmelbourne.com/cruiseshipping/cruiseschedule.aspx

 

Okay my fellow cruise experts, I have just seen the psychologist and he thinks I should try to get ON a cruise ship again sooner rather than later. So the above is a link to cruise ships in the Port of Melbourne ( where I live) could people please look at the ones staying late in the evening or weekends starting from the last weekend in Feb and tell me which are owned by Carnival who own Costa and are similar in size etc to the Concordia so I can ask Carnival nicely if I can go visit.

 

Thanks

 

I have am so glad you are working on getting this past you.

 

I don't know if you have thought of how or who to ask for a tour.

 

I don't know how they do it in Australia, but in Canada each cruise line has a BDM (business development manager). When the ships come to the west coast, getting ready for Alaska the BDM's make arrangments for travel agents to tour the ships. We have about 2 hours on the ship.

 

If you go to a travel agency that specializes in cruises they may be able to help you get in contact with a BDM

 

Best wishes to you and a speedy recovery

[rubrrick]

Correct! That is what I said in post #426 on this thread. This is an interesting discussion,and I like reading it, but cringe at some of the terminology and lack of understanding of how ships are operated.

 

I went back and read......or re read your post........and yes sir.....you do know what you are talking about. Beyond that, I see that you have held the rank of captain, commanding much larger ships than the yachts that I skippered.

 

I agree that this is an interesting discussion, and I enjoy reading posts of yours, the fact is that you have a great deal of knowledge of the sea!;)

 

Rick

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Friendly enough to sit at their table if we're eating in the same place? Yes, I think so. I certainly wouldn't think twice about having lunch at the same table with a young male coworker. "Hot', of course, is a matter of personal preference.

 

I also had older male friends when I was in my mid-20s and "hot". :)

Im just across the watter hen !!!! I can see Berwick Law and the Lothian coastline from the station lol....

 

Think the 'young' might be wrong as Im passed my sell by date lol

 

 

rgds

:):)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

That reminds me of a famous quote "There's only one thing to do when it rains and I don't play cards." ;)

Good grief another tiddlywinks player....I thought I was on to a loser in my search !!!!:):)