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Costa Concordia SINKING!

cruiserfanfromct

By cruiserfanfromct,
in Costa Cruises

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rubrrick

rubrrick

Posted
Posted
That is not "convincing" by any definition.

 

It is not passengers who are endangering you. It is the cruise line. The passengers did not sink the Concordia.

 

 

I think that Joanie's point is well taken. The more that know where their muster station is, the more quickly they can get there.

 

That is the only point here.

 

On the other hand, if the captain lets the ship half sink before sounding the alarm......well.....the Concordia is a classic example.

 

Some crew members might have lost their life that night, but none of the passengers should have lost their life, if the captain, and the rest of the bridge officers were on the ball.

 

As much as the new law effects the passengers, there better be a much more comprehensive law written for the officers and crew that run these ships.

 

And the lifeboats better come down about once a week, and be started, and the mechanics better be working on the engines every week......to make sure that they start, and properly run, when required. Make that as much of a law as the passenger attending a muster drill!

 

Rick

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Cuizer2

Cuizer2

Posted
Posted
Yes, I am blaming the crew if they can't convince passengers to attend the muster drill. Dealing with unreasonable passengers comes with the territory of being crew.

 

I deleted your red herring. A lot of posters on this thread like to make up something to belittle an opposing view.

 

So then will you will accept full responsibility for not being able to convince me that your opinion is fair or correct?

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't post any red herrings. I don't like fish.

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
I read this today: http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2012/02/cruise-ship-muster-drill-policy/623944/1 "Every vacationer boarding a cruise ship will receive a safety briefing before the vessel sets sail under a new industry-wide policy announced today."

 

I wonder if lines like NCL will change their policy of having the drill in the theater instead of at the actual locations of the lifeboats.

 

I whole heartedly agree that NCL should have a 2 part drill with one at interior muster station and the other at the life boat station.

 

John

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TheBestIsYetToCome

TheBestIsYetToCome

Posted
Posted
If a cruise line crew can not convince a passenger to participate short of putting them off then there is something wrong with the crew.

 

It's not the job of the crew to "convince" passengers to "participate." It's their job to hold the drill. The passengers can then decide whether they want to attend the drill or disembark.

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BalconyBumz

BalconyBumz

Posted
Posted
The muster drill needs to be done before the ship sails, and everyone needs to attend, but in this disaster I don't think it would have made any difference.

 

I completely agree. And this new hoopla about a new law having to do it even before the ship departs, doesn't make me feel one bit better or safer. I believe many new safety precautions need to be developed and implemented, in addition to some more scenarios in case of this or in case of that need to be instructed during the muster....something more than just the standard perfect world of a ship sitting straight up and both sides being okay to evacuate on.

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted

Well since no one was here to *play* I have continued to watch and think it may be something like an illusion, created by the mist/fog and the sun coming up, all of which hit on the light on the pier. The effect was as if the light blew up, with colors of red and yellow flaring out.

It was actually kinda pretty, sorry y'all missed it.

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Ozcruiser1

Ozcruiser1

Posted
Posted
I completely agree. And this new hoopla about a new law having to do it even before the ship departs, doesn't make me feel one bit better or safer. I believe many new safety precautions need to be developed and implemented, in addition to some more scenarios in case of this or in case of that need to be instructed during the muster....something more than just the standard perfect world of a ship sitting straight up and both sides being okay to evacuate on.

 

I have been jumping between this and another forum on CC

Request that Cruise Companies Renounce Passenger Deception in Emergencies

If I could add to this forum with a post from Activated95b

(I have not cleared this with Activated95b but I feel that it would add to some discussion on this widely followed forum)

Below is a copy and paste from Activated95b

 

One of the primary rules for communicating with people during a crisis is to be honest and communicate your plan.

 

Contrary to common belief people do not tend to panic in an emergency. They want (and need) to know the following:

 

1) What happened

2) How serious things are

3) What you are doing about it

4) What your plan is, and

5) What they need to do*.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Activated95b

1) the ship has struck a submerged object

2) we don not know how serious

3) we are seeing how serious

4) we are seeing how serious, to determine what we should do

5) go to your rooms, put your life jacket on.

 

I think that's fair.

That works - as long as you assign somebody to keep everybody informed as to the situation.

In additiotion to your item #5, I would also tell the passengers to dress warmly, then as soon as the crew were in position and the lifeboat stations were ready, had the passengers report to their muster stations. Putting the passenger through a 'hurry up an wait excercise' gives you time to take roll and ensure that everybody is accounted for and where they are supposed to be. You can also use this extra time to sort out the people who will need assistance getting on the lifeboat, verify that life vests are being worn correctly, give other instructions etc.

 

Now everybody is ready and all they need to do is board the lifeboats (and the passengers are already lined up in the order they will board).

 

I doubt that the passengers will criticize you for 'going overboard' for their safety in an emergency.

 

There was no panic because the passengers 1) understood what was going on, 2) understood what was expected of them and most importantly - they felt that the information they were getting was credible.

 

I would add this comment.

If I'm told some mistruth regarding evacuation/ non evacuation when I'm in a land based building I can make my decision to exit by walking down stairs etc and out of the building.

Completely different story on a ship. If I'm told some obvious mistruth such as "It's an electrical problem" when the ship is listing, there is no other feasible option other than to wait for the ships officers to do what they have to do to help me off. I HAVE to have faith in them. Unfortunately this faith has been damaged by this tragedy.

__________________

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CruisersNC

CruisersNC

Posted
Posted
Well since no one was here to *play* I have continued to watch and think it may be something like an illusion, created by the mist/fog and the sun coming up, all of which hit on the light on the pier. The effect was as if the light blew up, with colors of red and yellow flaring out.

It was actually kinda pretty, sorry y'all missed it.

 

 

Yeah I still see the light.....looks pretty stormy and windy right now. Guess that means they won't be able to do any pumping today :(

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted
Yeah I still see the light.....looks pretty stormy and windy right now. Guess that means they won't be able to do any pumping today :(

 

I wasn't expecting them to work today. Wind gusts were predicted to be in the 50+ range. In just the hour (or slightly longer) I've been watching, the wave action has increased quite a bit. Hope the waves don't cause too much shifting of the ship.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The way I see this life boat drill situation is how the lines can handle it without causing excess worry, not so much to seasoned cruisers but to newbies. I believe that is part of the reason drills have been treated so casually in the past.

Most of us that post here have cruised many times. We all seem in some agreement that the drills need to be taken more seriously. Everyone does need to attend, stragglers need to be dealt with, and they need to leave the drinks and cell phones behind. Also, I understand from someone that posted here, they need to cut the (for lack of a better word) commercials that some lines have tacked onto the end of the drill. The drill should be just about the drill.

I also believe they need to have a backup plan in case an actual muster station can't be accessed.

I have heard stories from survivors (in interviews) that some crew did not seem very well trained in manning the controls for the boats. If true, extra training is in order.

As to the officers, tell the truth to passengers and crew. The people on that ship knew it was in trouble, lying only made matters worse.

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Milaandra

Milaandra

Posted
Posted

As I mentioned, I've been reading up on other cruiseship incidents.

 

1. When there is a hole in the ship, the standard procedure seems to be to beach it.

 

2. Sometimes passengers are lied to, sometimes they aren't.

 

3. From what I've seen, the shortest time between collision and evacuation is one hour.

 

4. It took one hour to beach the Concordia. Abandon ship was declared within 10-15 minutes later.

 

5. The Concordia stayed at a list that allowed for easy movement for at least an hour after the abandon ship was declared.

 

6. During that hour, many lifeboats could not be launched from the side listing out of the water.

 

7. Passengers were removed from those lifeboats and told to go to the other side of the ship.

 

8. Some of those lifeboats were later launched with difficulty, but were under capacity.

 

9. Other than the Korean couple who slept through everything, all other passengers appear to have been prepared for the abandon ship.

 

10. I have yet to find an abandon ship in which all passenges were removed from the ship by the lifeboats.

 

Make what you will with this, but my "absurd" logic leads me to believe that there would have been no deaths if the lifeboats could have launched normally. (Except maybe the Korean couple, who were lucky the ship was beached and that they were found by rescuers)

 

I'd like to see a couple more lifeboats (the math seems awfully tight with the lifeboats that are on the ship) and I'd like to see the launch problems solved.

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Milaandra

Milaandra

Posted
Posted
The more that know where their muster station is, the more quickly they can get there.

 

I'd love to know what the people on this thead think of this scenario.

 

Knowing that the lifeboats don't launch well in a list, would you go to you own muster station in an emergency if it was on the "wrong" side of the ship?

 

I'm the sort of person who waits for the traffic light to cross the street on foot, even when there is no traffic, but I don't know if I would follow the rules in this situation.

 

Am I the only one?

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Davyjonesrugrat

Davyjonesrugrat

Posted
Posted
I'd love to know what the people on this thead think of this scenario.

 

Knowing that the lifeboats don't launch well in a list, would you go to you own muster station in an emergency if it was on the "wrong" side of the ship?

 

I'm the sort of person who waits for the traffic light to cross the street on foot, even when there is no traffic, but I don't know if I would follow the rules in this situation.

 

Am I the only one?

Like you I wouldnt follow the instructions, if common sense tells you that going to that area could prove fatal then I would go to the opposite side. Its called self preservations !!!.....

 

rgds

:D:D:D

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sidari

sidari

Posted
Posted

There is no reason why anyone should refuse to take part in the Muster drill unless they are taken ill right before it, as HAL have been doing no Muster drill no sailing!

 

Recently the QM2 had 2 total power failures in one week leaving it adrift, a spokeman said it was due to routine maintenance!! what in the middle of the ocean ... :eek: so even now weeks after Concordia passengers are still not being told the Truth!

 

NCL are not the only line to hold muster stations inside their ships and to expect everyone onboard the ship to fit on the deck where the Lifeboats are is asking a little too much which is one reason they are held at different venues.

 

Passengers have a duty of care to themselves in that they have to take responsibility for themselves in making sure they read the Big board on the back of the cabin door and checking where their muster station is and their secondary escape route, how many actually watch the TV before the drill on Embarkation day? which is always set to the channel of the lifeboat drill and in the language of the persons residing in the cabin.

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Ozcruiser1

Ozcruiser1

Posted
Posted
Like you I wouldnt follow the instructions, if common sense tells you that going to that area could prove fatal then I would go to the opposite side. Its called self preservations !!!.....

 

rgds

:D:D:D

 

The trouble with common sense is that it's not very common.

 

In an emergency with large numbers of people you need to them (passengers) to follow well thought out, planned and rehearsed plans.

 

I recall reading about Rick Rescorla who was named as director of security for Morgan Stanley, headquartered in the World Trade Center. At his insistence, all employees, including senior executives, practiced emergency evacuations every three months. Rescorla, following his evacuation plans, ignored building officials' advice to stay put and began the orderly evacuation of Morgan Stanley's 2,700 employees on twenty floors of World Trade Center Tower 2, and 1,000 employees in WTC 5.

 

Cruise lines must learn from this latest tragic event to do things better.

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NormanW

NormanW

Posted
Posted

 

It's called a snow storm. ;)

 

A link to another power outage on QM2 causing her to be "dead in the water".

http://www.amem.at/pdf/AMEM_Communication_031_Queen-Mary-2.pdf

From Austrian Marine Equipment Manufactures.

 

Arc blast caused by electrolyte. How nice of them. ;) Guess it beats a full blown BLEVE. I would not want to be even on the (right) side of the blast door though. The price one has to pay for speed...peaker plant and all. :eek:

 

 

Any text sites? No way I can watch video on my connection.

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itmom

itmom

Posted
Posted

I apologize if what I'm going to say would have been already said (I couldn't read all of the thread),and I apologize if my english isn't good enough(I'm italian).

I've sailed on Costa ships for 3 times and in my last cruise (august 2011)we've been given a "drill card"and we had to show it at the muster drill,so the crew knew if all of the passengers took part in it.It looks like Costa gave great importance to the muster drill (i.e. members of the crew were seeing if we properly wore our lifejackets),what seems to be a problem are the too many ports of imbarcation,because only passengers boarding in Savona had their muster drill before sailing,the others having it in 24 hours after boarding.This is something that shouldn't happen IMHO.

After all of this I hope I won't read anymore anyone saying that listening to instructions in 5 languages during the muster drill is boring...not everybody understands english,even if it's maybe hard to believe for americans or english people...in the case of emergency is quite hard to stay calm and follow the instructions,what would happen if you can't understand a word?

 

I hope I made myself clear enough,sorry if I'm not...:o

...oh one last thing:we italians aren't all like Schettino ,just like you americans aren't all like Homer Simpson (although he didn't kill anyone:rolleyes:)on the web I readed so many bad thing about us, I really had to spit it out...(don't know if it's the right word).bye

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