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Concordia News: Please Post Here

kingcruiser1

By kingcruiser1,
in Costa Cruises

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted

As expected, Giglio is seeing an increase in media types as the weekend nears. I noticed a couple of cameras in port by the tri-pods they were on and at least one man with a camera on his shoulder. Coming off the ferry were 2 vans with satellite equipment on top of each.

Also, in the news is mention of a new book by 2 survivors.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/10/abandoned-ship-new-book-details-honeymooners-costa-concordia-nightmare.html

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted

LaRepublica says it has an exclusive video from someone that took it on the rock near the ship.

I copied the link with the article in English but it probably won't show up here that way. The video itself shows what the article mentions.

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/01/10/news/i_momenti_prima_della_fine_concordia_il_video_dell_evacuazione-50247703/?ref=HRER2-1

 

Also in LaRepublica:

Was announced in a letter to all customers Costa, Michael Thamm, the German manager who since last July has taken the place of Pierluigi Foschi at the helm of the company. Thamm, CEO (chief executive officer) of Costa, summed up in the letter to all customers enrolled in the "Club Coast" what will happen on Sunday. January 13 - it says - at Giglio there will be a moment in memory of those who lost their lives, and thank once again the Islanders and all rescuers, who have given so generously in welcoming and assisting survivors that night. A year later, that day the Coast offices around the world and all ships will have the flag at half-mast and a memorial Mass will be celebrated in theaters aboard our fleet, after a minute's silence. In Genoa, also in the city where our company is located in the Basilica of St. Maria Assunta di Carignano employees will attend a memorial mass. " At the same time, then there will be different religious services, in respect of all religions. There is in fact a religious rite in Paris (Église de la Madeleine) and will also be made ​​a Hindu ceremony in Mumbai and Bali, a Muslim in Jakarta, a Buddhist and a Catholic in Goa Shanghai, Jakarta, Manila and Lima. "Be sure I will personally along with all of Costa Cruises and the other companies in the cruise industry, so that it did everything possible to ensure that incidents like this never happen again - said Thamm - trust that the prayers that each of us will give in this sad anniversary, in different languages ​​and religions but with one voice, will help to illuminate our future. "

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

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Posted

http://genova.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/01/09/news/licenziamento_di_schettino_il_processo_non_si_ferma-50178480/

 

The cause of work by Costa Cruises to justify dismissal for just cause, the captain of the Concordia Francesco Schettino does not stop. It remains to Genoa. The Labour Court has deemed to be eligible Henri Ravera procedure Coast, which has been granted, the first case in Italy, the procedure laid down in the law Fornero that, in fact, provides for the possibility of the application by the employee, in this case, instead , was the same employer to go to court to give effect to the expulsion from the society of captain after the tragic sinking of a year ago. Schettino, for its part, has put forward its own appeal to the court of Torre Annunziata. Always appealing to the new law governing labor law.

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mickey_d_mouse

mickey_d_mouse

Posted
Posted

We have had lots of phone calls from reporters some reporters actually thought that Costa would pay for us to go to the memorial on Giglio (what drugs are they on). Costa sent us a letter asking us not to go. There will be a few on the survivors on CBS Morning, and a lot of other interviews done around the world. I have written a short peice for Cruise Critic said no to everyone else that has called thus far.

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted (edited)
We have had lots of phone calls from reporters some reporters actually thought that Costa would pay for us to go to the memorial on Giglio (what drugs are they on). Costa sent us a letter asking us not to go. There will be a few on the survivors on CBS Morning, and a lot of other interviews done around the world. I have written a short peice for Cruise Critic said no to everyone else that has called thus far.

 

Michelle, where will we find what you've written?

 

Never mind. I found it. lol

Edited by SomeBeach
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sidari

sidari

Posted
Posted

Tonight in the UK on sky tv channel 527 there was a programme about the Concordia 12 months on made by National Geographic, the information used was from the Data recorder together with a computer graphic of the ship.

 

The data recorder and the Graphic shows Schettino taking over control of the ship and when they realised they were close to Le Scole rock ordered a turn to Starboard, then an order Rudder to Midship followed by an order of Port 20 degrees ... this would have taken Concordia clear of Le Scole rock but for some reason it took the Helmsman some 13 seconds to act on the order, by the time the order Hard to Port was given it was too late.

 

It seems that in those 13 seconds the fate of Concordia was sealed, as for why it took time to give the Abandon ship order ... the Experts on the programme say that it would have been almost impossible to lower lifeboats full of people while the ship was moving away from Giglio and listing to Port while heading to deeper waster and the number of deaths would have benn much greater.

 

When Concordia turned around the wind acting on the Port side pushed the ship into the Vertical/Upright position which then caused the water within the Hull to move to the Starboard side and cause the ship to capsize onto that side, the programme also said that with three adjoining watertight compartments breeched that the Concordia could not stay afloat.

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paulrobs

paulrobs

Posted
Posted

Damn. Wrote a long post and it got swallowed somewhere because the website thought I wasn't logged in. I'll write a shorter one here and if the other turns up then that's why I wrote it twice.

 

I haven't posted much on CC because I've used it more as a source of information. I wanted to post just once on this topic though. I won't reply or justify anything because it's the internet and, as amazing as it may seem, there are actually people out there who think Schettino was the great saviour and is being unpoorly criticised on here.

 

We have done 5 cruises now, all on RCI, and never once did we feel at danger through unsafe practices or anything else. We did have a night in August 2005 on Legend of the Seas between Corsica and Barcelona in 30' seas and 50kt+ winds that got a bit tasty but the crew and captain were great. We'd always done a lifeboat muster before sailing and we'd always witnessed/heard a weekly safety exercise and, with my 10 years experience in 4,000 tonne Royal Navy warships all over the world, it always felt to me like RCI took safety seriously. I had always (privately) thought about the top heaviness of cruisehips and how I knew they probably needed power and steerage to remain safe and often wondered what they'd be like in a heaving sea with no power. I trusted the ships and their crews though and thought as long as you don't take stupid risks and the systems are sufficiently failsafe they'll be fine.

 

When I heard about CC I instinctively knew, as the facts and conjecture started to come out, that human error had caused the disaster. I also strongly believed that someone or a group of someones have to be responsible and be convicted. I've taken the time to read every post in this thread and I've been impressed with some of the legal argument and the experiences of ex masters etc and their well reasoned arguments.

 

There isn't a doubt in my mind that the captain was to blame for this and he should be tried and hopefully convicted. I feel that a number of his senior officers are also to blame for not reporting previous situations - let's face it, the captain didn't get up that morning and decide he was going to do a close sail by the island for the first time ever. He was clearly going to do it better (closer) than ever before and if enough people had reported previous transgressions then perhaps Schettino would not have been the captain that night. Costa are also to blame for at best turning a blind eye to unscheduled close salutes and at worst actively encouraging them.

 

I find it disgraceful that Schettino and his senior officers were not onboard co-ordinating the rescue. You only have to hear the disbelief and anger in the Coastguard's voice when he is talking to Schettino to know that their place was on the ship and in a position to tell the Coastguard exactly what was happening and how they could best help. I couldn't care about the law in this area, they failed the fare-paying passengers and other crewmembers when those people really needed them.

 

I don't much care for those on here trying to defend Schettino and Costa either. I think they're wrong but hey, it's the internet and we can all have different opinions. For me it's all about not doing it in the first place and not putting lives at risk by stupid stunts in a 115,000 tonne cruiseship. Some have tried to portray him being worried about power blackouts and other issues. So, Schettino is already worried about complete power failures and other ship issues and he steams in towards an island with a steeply shelving bottom at 16knots. very logical. He's a lunatic, an absolute bloody lunatic.

 

I can't forgive Costa for talking to Schettino for quite a long time after the impact with the rocks about what they might/could do rather than putting in action a previously agreed major incident plan as quickly as possible to safeguard the crew and passengers. Launching the lifeboats as soon as they would have realised the ship was badly holed and taking in large amounts of water would surely have been the right thing to do. Lifeboats could have been launched from both sides before the ship listed too far over. Any senior officer, and especially the engineering officers, would have realised that the ship was only going to go down given the information they would have had. I mean, they hit rocks at 16 knots, everything lights up like a christmas tree and then the power gos off and they quickly learn they've got a lot of water coming in acros a number of watertight bulkheads. It's ok though, it's just a power failure...

 

If Schettino isn't convicted for this I will never do another cruise again, on principle. I would never go on another cruise if I thought captains, senior officers and cruiselines could do this kind of thing and get away unpunished. Unpunished in my book means there is no future deterrent. I don't want more legislation that people can ignore, I want to see a deterrent that clearly says to every person in the cruise industry that you cannot put people's lives at risk like that ever again and if you do you get locked up for it, for a very long time.

 

To those who were on the ship that night and have posted in here, thank you. It was good to read your firsthand accounts. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in this senseless and completely preventable and avoidable disaster.

 

Paul

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CostaSmurfette

CostaSmurfette

Posted
Posted
Tonight in the UK on sky tv channel 527 there was a programme about the Concordia 12 months on made by National Geographic, the information used was from the Data recorder together with a computer graphic of the ship.

 

The data recorder and the Graphic shows Schettino taking over control of the ship and when they realised they were close to Le Scole rock ordered a turn to Starboard, then an order Rudder to Midship followed by an order of Port 20 degrees ... this would have taken Concordia clear of Le Scole rock but for some reason it took the Helmsman some 13 seconds to act on the order, by the time the order Hard to Port was given it was too late.

 

It seems that in those 13 seconds the fate of Concordia was sealed, as for why it took time to give the Abandon ship order ... the Experts on the programme say that it would have been almost impossible to lower lifeboats full of people while the ship was moving away from Giglio and listing to Port while heading to deeper waster and the number of deaths would have benn much greater.

 

When Concordia turned around the wind acting on the Port side pushed the ship into the Vertical/Upright position which then caused the water within the Hull to move to the Starboard side and cause the ship to capsize onto that side, the programme also said that with three adjoining watertight compartments breeched that the Concordia could not stay afloat.

 

A few pages ago I did mention that the investigative team had discovered that the Indonesian helmsman could not speak or understand Italian and that he only had very limited English too...and when barked orders by two senior officers - Schettino and Ambrosio - in a confused and probably paicked situation, it is therefore hardly a surprise that the helmsman fluffed the commands and delayed reactions.

 

The blackbox transcripts as featured in the programme confirm that there was a breakdown in bridge resource management and there was a breakdown in communication that was exacerbated by language difficulties.

 

There have been questions as to whether or not the helmsman has been considered for charges in relation to his actions and to the level of his training...

 

You have three principle players in what went on that night...

 

Schettino who was on public duties and who was called to the bridge when things went pearshaped.

 

Ambrosio who was on duty and thus effectively in charge of the vessel, albeit as bridge officer (notwithstanding he was one pip below Schettino who is in overall command but Schettino (as all Captains) should be able to leave his or her first officer in charge without fear of them getting into a dangerous position. Ambrosio obviously called Schettino to the bridge when the initial mistake was discovered.

 

And then you have the helmsman...an Indonesian seafarer with no Italian and little English who is following orders initially from Ambrosio and then from both Ambrosio and Schettino and getting those orders fuddled up causing a 13 second delay in action/reaction time.

 

13 seconds is a tiny amount of time but with a 290m long ship clunking at 10+ knots...that 13 seconds means a hell of alot.

 

Add into the mix that the ship wasn't right and you have one unholy mess...or as many have said, an accident waiting to happen...not a case of if, but when.

 

There will be changes after this...and I do not mean the public face of cruising (or indeed shipping in general)...the language and training problems that this accident has thrown up right across the board will inevitably lead to bridge resource management improvements, training for foreign crew will be changed to ensure that English is not just fluently spoken but fully understood. As in the aviation field, the maritime industry language is English...the aviation field learned hard lessons after accidents due to crew's who had poor understanding or grasp of the English language...especially in times such as an emergency when things get tense and the need to understand what is being said is absolutely paramount.

 

Discovery Channel are doing a two part documentary starting Sunday. It might be interesting to compare the content and interpretation on both the Discovery and NatGeo programmes...see if both come to the same conclusions.

 

With the ship staying put until at least September, if she doesn't collapse in on herself by then or break her back, this saga will run and run. Whether we, as the cruising public, will ever get the full facts of that night and the implications in regard to the design of the ship, the maintenance issues, the training issues, the language issues and the absolute causes that inevitably led to what happened is debateable.

 

The fact that cruise lines worldwide have shifted into high gear within 48 hours of the accident and changed their rules and procedures and are continuing to do so without ratification or agreement from the International Maritime Organisation speaks volumes.

 

The IMO will be dealing with proposed changes to SOLAS in March/April but they might not come into law for another 2 years...that is 2 years too long and it begs the question as to whether all cruise lines have been doing the bare minimum to scrape past the existing SOLAS standards...from what I have seen, it is almost certainly the case (and I do not mean just aboard Costa ships but on other ships belonging to other cruise lines that I have sailed on in the last 35+ years).

 

The cruise lines have gotten away with it cos the IMO lets them get away with it and with that an air of complacency had grown..."it will never happen"

 

Concordia is a game changer...or at least she SHOULD be...the cruise lines all need to up their corporate game, hang back of the frilly WOW factor and concentrate more on the "it WILL happen"....before anyone else dies.

 

If lessons are not learnt from Concordia, from maritime architects to Captains and everyone in between, then we WILL have another accident and the next one potentially will be alot worse.

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sidari

sidari

Posted
Posted

Schettino who was on public duties and who was called to the bridge when things went pearshaped.

 

Concordia according to the TV programme was on Auto Pilot when Schettino attended the bridge, it was then turned off and the ship taken manually by the 1st officer who was in charge of the ship until Schettino announced that he was taking over.

 

Paulrobs ... I find it strange that you say you will not cruise again if Schettino is not jailed! does that mean you would never Fly again in an aircraft if a Pilot was not convicted of causing a crash? your decision but a very very odd one considering many people who were on Concordia that night have cruised since then.

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CostaSmurfette

CostaSmurfette

Posted
Posted
Schettino who was on public duties and who was called to the bridge when things went pearshaped.

 

Concordia according to the TV programme was on Auto Pilot when Schettino attended the bridge, it was then turned off and the ship taken manually by the 1st officer who was in charge of the ship until Schettino announced that he was taking over.

 

Paulrobs ... I find it strange that you say you will not cruise again if Schettino is not jailed! does that mean you would never Fly again in an aircraft if a Pilot was not convicted of causing a crash? your decision but a very very odd one considering many people who were on Concordia that night have cruised since then.

 

Who programmed the auto-pilot....?

 

Routinely on several cruise lines it is the First Officer, which would have been Ambrosio in Concordia's case.

 

All it takes is a distraction or a fat finger hitting the wrong digit for the wrong track to be entered...Concordia was not that far off the usual course...so potentially a miskeyed entry on the auto-pilot could have sent her where she was not meant to go...and then you have the realisation, the return to the bridge by Schettino, the barked orders by Schettino and Ambrosio and the confused Indonesian at the helm....chain reaction that probably started before Concordia even left Civitavecchia during charting and auto-pilot setup.

 

Then of course we can take it a step further and ask about the reliability of the auto-pilot.

 

You only need to look at Crown Princess, Emerald Princess and Grand Princess and their "uncommanded turns" whilst on auto-pilot to see that even those systems are not infallable. Concordia was behaving badly that week...power fluctuations that affected the black box, the depth sounder and radar may have interferred with the auto-pilot too....no way of knowing for sure.

 

Despite throwing him under the bus in January, he was not fired til July...why? If he was so bad, surely he should have been fired immediately?

 

The training of Captains is the same regardless of cruise line, or indeed shipping line. Is there something wrong with the training...how do companies weed out those who do not cut the mustard...how can a company know ahead of time that a captain will wobble and allow his or her fear get in the way of better judgement?

 

How is it that another senior officer from that night made captain a few months after the event...yet had come into some criticism...if he passed the exams and got the ticket....then is it time to strengthen the exams and make it harder to gain that master's ticket?

 

Captaincy training is not governed by the cruise lines, its laid down and regulated by the authorities...so if the "expertise" and "experience" is there and that person has worked up the ranks regardless of fast tracking or standard....how will the companies know if they have a rogue, a scaredy cat or a perfectionist?

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Tonka's Skipper

Tonka's Skipper

Posted
Posted (edited)
Tonight in the UK on sky tv channel 527 there was a programme about the Concordia 12 months on made by National Geographic, the information used was from the Data recorder together with a computer graphic of the ship.

 

The data recorder and the Graphic shows Schettino taking over control of the ship and when they realised they were close to Le Scole rock ordered a turn to Starboard, then an order Rudder to Midship followed by an order of Port 20 degrees ... this would have taken Concordia clear of Le Scole rock but for some reason it took the Helmsman some 13 seconds to act on the order, by the time the order Hard to Port was given it was too late.

 

It seems that in those 13 seconds the fate of Concordia was sealed, as for why it took time to give the Abandon ship order ... the Experts on the programme say that it would have been almost impossible to lower lifeboats full of people while the ship was moving away from Giglio and listing to Port while heading to deeper waster and the number of deaths would have benn much greater.

 

When Concordia turned around the wind acting on the Port side pushed the ship into the Vertical/Upright position which then caused the water within the Hull to move to the Starboard side and cause the ship to capsize onto that side, the programme also said that with three adjoining watertight compartments breeched that the Concordia could not stay afloat.

 

Hey there Sid!

 

The bottom line here is that the Master should never have let the vessel get that close to the rock in the first place. Doing a fly by, he place was on the Bridge and at the con. During this type of manuver,his primary duty was the safely and navigation of his vessel, not wining and dining in the dining room.

 

 

In addition when navigating in so close to shore the auto pilot should not have been ingaged....*NEVER*

 

The helmsman issue is indeed another part of the puzzle and should be taking into account. In a emergency, 13 secounds is a long time, and as Master, one eye should have been on the rudder angle indicator to insure his command was exacuted fast. The Duty Officer/Officers should also of had thier eyes on the indicator. Seems none did and this confirmed that in additon to the Master, the Officers on the bridge were ineffective.

 

AKK

Edited by Tonka's Skipper
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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted

This link, which I copied in English but will probably show up in Italian, shows a group of protesters (in pictures) that are on the Island. They are upset with the length of time involved in removal of the ship.

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/01/11/foto/blitz_legambiente_al_giglio_costa_discordia_via_subito-50322548/1/?ref=HREC1-6

To the right of the main pictures, you can find video of a robot that shows dollars on the seabed.

Another article mentions how to remove the water from inside the ship after she is upright. They don't want it put back into the sea but where to put it is the question.

Today it was mentioned that the weather is not good at Giglio. A look at the webcam shows they did have rain. The article did not go on to mention whether this system will remain for the weekend.

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
Damn. Wrote a long post and it got swallowed somewhere because the website thought I wasn't logged in. I'll write a shorter one here and if the other turns up then that's why I wrote it twice.

 

I haven't posted much on CC because I've used it more as a source of information. I wanted to post just once on this topic though. I won't reply or justify anything because it's the internet and, as amazing as it may seem, there are actually people out there who think Schettino was the great saviour and is being unpoorly criticised on here.

 

We have done 5 cruises now, all on RCI, and never once did we feel at danger through unsafe practices or anything else. We did have a night in August 2005 on Legend of the Seas between Corsica and Barcelona in 30' seas and 50kt+ winds that got a bit tasty but the crew and captain were great. We'd always done a lifeboat muster before sailing and we'd always witnessed/heard a weekly safety exercise and, with my 10 years experience in 4,000 tonne Royal Navy warships all over the world, it always felt to me like RCI took safety seriously. I had always (privately) thought about the top heaviness of cruisehips and how I knew they probably needed power and steerage to remain safe and often wondered what they'd be like in a heaving sea with no power. I trusted the ships and their crews though and thought as long as you don't take stupid risks and the systems are sufficiently failsafe they'll be fine.

 

When I heard about CC I instinctively knew, as the facts and conjecture started to come out, that human error had caused the disaster. I also strongly believed that someone or a group of someones have to be responsible and be convicted. I've taken the time to read every post in this thread and I've been impressed with some of the legal argument and the experiences of ex masters etc and their well reasoned arguments.

 

There isn't a doubt in my mind that the captain was to blame for this and he should be tried and hopefully convicted. I feel that a number of his senior officers are also to blame for not reporting previous situations - let's face it, the captain didn't get up that morning and decide he was going to do a close sail by the island for the first time ever. He was clearly going to do it better (closer) than ever before and if enough people had reported previous transgressions then perhaps Schettino would not have been the captain that night. Costa are also to blame for at best turning a blind eye to unscheduled close salutes and at worst actively encouraging them.

 

I find it disgraceful that Schettino and his senior officers were not onboard co-ordinating the rescue. You only have to hear the disbelief and anger in the Coastguard's voice when he is talking to Schettino to know that their place was on the ship and in a position to tell the Coastguard exactly what was happening and how they could best help. I couldn't care about the law in this area, they failed the fare-paying passengers and other crewmembers when those people really needed them.

 

I don't much care for those on here trying to defend Schettino and Costa either. I think they're wrong but hey, it's the internet and we can all have different opinions. For me it's all about not doing it in the first place and not putting lives at risk by stupid stunts in a 115,000 tonne cruiseship. Some have tried to portray him being worried about power blackouts and other issues. So, Schettino is already worried about complete power failures and other ship issues and he steams in towards an island with a steeply shelving bottom at 16knots. very logical. He's a lunatic, an absolute bloody lunatic.

 

I can't forgive Costa for talking to Schettino for quite a long time after the impact with the rocks about what they might/could do rather than putting in action a previously agreed major incident plan as quickly as possible to safeguard the crew and passengers. Launching the lifeboats as soon as they would have realised the ship was badly holed and taking in large amounts of water would surely have been the right thing to do. Lifeboats could have been launched from both sides before the ship listed too far over. Any senior officer, and especially the engineering officers, would have realised that the ship was only going to go down given the information they would have had. I mean, they hit rocks at 16 knots, everything lights up like a christmas tree and then the power gos off and they quickly learn they've got a lot of water coming in acros a number of watertight bulkheads. It's ok though, it's just a power failure...

 

If Schettino isn't convicted for this I will never do another cruise again, on principle. I would never go on another cruise if I thought captains, senior officers and cruiselines could do this kind of thing and get away unpunished. Unpunished in my book means there is no future deterrent. I don't want more legislation that people can ignore, I want to see a deterrent that clearly says to every person in the cruise industry that you cannot put people's lives at risk like that ever again and if you do you get locked up for it, for a very long time.

 

To those who were on the ship that night and have posted in here, thank you. It was good to read your firsthand accounts. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in this senseless and completely preventable and avoidable disaster.

 

Paul

 

Bravo, a voice of sanity from the UK. :)

 

Until Paul's post, I was beginning to think the water, whiskey, and beer had become tainted with a dementia inducing substance throughout the kingdom. LOL :D

 

John

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
Schettino who was on public duties and who was called to the bridge when things went pearshaped.

 

Concordia according to the TV programme was on Auto Pilot when Schettino attended the bridge, it was then turned off and the ship taken manually by the 1st officer who was in charge of the ship until Schettino announced that he was taking over.

 

Paulrobs ... I find it strange that you say you will not cruise again if Schettino is not jailed! does that mean you would never Fly again in an aircraft if a Pilot was not convicted of causing a crash? your decision but a very very odd one considering many people who were on Concordia that night have cruised since then.

 

 

Here's an new definition from the Orwell New Speak Dictionary:

 

"public duties: any and all activities of an official which remove him from carrying out his official duties including but not limited to trysts and rendezvous with paramours." :D

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mickey_d_mouse

mickey_d_mouse

Posted
Posted
This link contains a part of the letter survivors received in regards to their not attending the ceremonies this weekend.

 

http://www.app.com/viewart/20130111/NJNEWS18/301110031/One-year-later-survivors-still-suffering-after-Concordia-cruise-ship-disaster

 

 

Intersting how he notes our discussion on our closed facebook page, and I believe all survivors got the letter

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