HANDICAPPED or NOT !!!!!!

[Oceanwench]

DH says it is against the law in Fla. to park in an HC space if the person with the handicap is not getting out of the car.

So I asked him, "Is it fair that the handicapped person could be trapped in the car with no way of getting out? What if a fire started, and you couldn't lower the ramp to escape the car?"

 

He agreed that if a handicapped person were left in a van, in a space that was not van accessible, he/she could become trapped -- whereas an AB person would not face that same situation.

 

Oh well ... he always gets out of the van with me, unless I am running a quick errand, and then I park in a regular space.

 

Here is an interesting scenario: When we were in Port Everglades 5/14 to board the Zuiderdam, I dropped DH and DD off in front of the pier. I then drove the van to the parking garage. I parked in an HC spot -- even though he was not with me. Because when we returned from our cruise, he would be going into the garage with me and would need an accessible space to lower the ramp to the van!

Otherwise, I would have had to back the van out of a "regular" space and find an area [probably an accessible space, if one were available] where he could safely board.

[danpriceusa]

I am one of those with a handicap that is not visible. I have 2 bad discs and had surgery on my back. My problem is that I cannot walk long distances and have lost a great deal of agility. OK here is the thing, I could park farther away, endure the pain and then take very strong pain medication. I choose the shorter walk and less medication, I really hate to take medication. Now I look fine, until people see my wife doing all the loading and unloading of our groceries and such.

 

I do park in a regular spot if I am feeling good, so I guess you could say that having a handicap sticker can be abused also. My biggest problem is in the winter, I am completely unable to walk on ice. My doctor is very concerned that if I fall on ice I will become paralized.

 

By the way I am originally from Ocala Florida and retired from the Navy had tours on the Bancroft SSBN 643, Maryland SSBN 738, and Nebraska SSBN 739.

[Skylee131]

As first when reading alot of these posts I became increasingly more angry the more I read. Then, after taking a moment to collect my thoughts after two things occured to me. First, its free speech, and everyone is entitled to thier opinion of what they feel should or should not be the acceptable "norm"

Second, in the grand scheme it doesn't matter what some of you "think" should be what the "norm" is, it matters what the laws and ships decide is acceptable.

 

After looking into the Venacular used on the NCL Cruise site (I didn't bother to look up the others). The Stateroom classifications list "Physically Challenged" I imagine they are listed that way to cover a broad range of needs of various passengers who require different amenities then majority of other passengers are able to able to make use of thier more generic staterooms.

 

I do however find it hypocritical for people with thier own Physical limitations casting judgement on others with other Physical limitations after stating themselves how poorly they are judged and treated by others who don't empathize with or understand thier condition.

 

I myself suffer with Morbid Obesity, and yes I do suffer. I have struggled with weight issues for the majority of my 34 years. There are many issues that accompany Morbid Obesity...Shortness of breath, limited mobility, Pain on joints and muscles from the sheer strain on your frame, and even difficulty navigating areas designed for smaller framed individuals. That is just a few of the problems... This is not a comparison of suffering of people with various Physical Ailments. It is an expression of the same request for understanding that many that have posted here and expressed here for themselves or others with Physical Limitations.

 

Until someone has had to deal with thier own morbid obesity, I don't believe they are in any position to make uniformed objective opinions on the needs of people actually suffering from these problems.

 

I also find comments along the lines of "lack of self indulgence" and "If they need to they can use the spa" to be extremely rude and insensitive.

[prairie_fox]

Well Im adding my thoughts here also. If you happen to see me on the cruise and watch me for days you wouldnt know if I had something wrong with me or not. There are days I can make the walk from my bed to the bathroom and thats about all and then other days I am great and move about fine. Now for me and a wheelchiar...well so far I have not given in to use of those yet but on those real bad days, let me tell you I would love to have one to make it easy to move and not be in such pain that I want to have my body removed.. Maybe some of these people really need to see more then the outside of the person who is in that chair. I myself look fine on the outside (5'3 and about 127lbs). Like MS, you can not tell I am sick unless its when I am moving around like someone who is 100 yrs old. :eek: Even those who look fine one day may have some real reason a few days later to use a chair. If it means me going on a trip or staying behind, I will use the chair, I wont hold my husband back from things we planned to do on our trips. I will just have to find other means to be able to make it to where we need other then walking ( if and I do mean if I cant walk on my own).

(((Ok stepping of the old soap box now))) thump

thank you

Lesia

[sixy-six]

I have a hiden disablity. But the first thing people will see of me is that I am over wieght. No its not from a lack of self control. I eat right exercess as much as I am able. After being on the merds I am takeing my Motabalzem(sp) does not work the way it should. SO I have started to gain a lot of wieght.

 

What people don't see is that I have Spina bifada(sp) (sorry I can't spell it) I also have arthrius that is destroyng my knees asnd hips. Each day for me is anouther advincher in pain. I have resited using a chair or scooter so far. But the time is getting close where I will no longer have that chose. I have seen there stairs and I really no longer care what people think. I spent a life time in pain destory my back becouse people did not bleive me that I was in pain. I did havey work most of my life. Now I do good just getting out of a chair.

 

I like to live life. and I will not let anyone stand in my way. if my disability offends them, well thats their porblem.

[cjh]

sixy-six I have 2 children with the myelo type of spina bifida both are paralyzed from the top of the legs down. I assume you have spina bifida occulta since you mention back pain. The reason you have back pain is because you spinal cord is tethered and can be released leaving you will no effects of spina bifida occulta. Sad thing is most adult doctors don't know this you would have to see a pediatric neurosurgeon.

[sixy-six]

HI cjh The typ of spina bifida I have does fall uinder that. But I am of the 2% of peoplethat have to worst typof it. None of the vertbra in my lower hlaf of me back deloved in to true vretbras. I have no tail bone. I know people who are alot worse off than I am so I normaly don't tell about the SB.

 

But I have done some reserch after reading you post. I have been seeing a neurologest, I plan on asking him about this when I see him agine.

[cjh]

sixty-six a neurologist won't be able to give you the answers you want you need a neurosuregon that has dealt with spina bifida. Not sure where you live but the pediatric neurosurgeon at University of Michigan has spina bifida and has done releases on adults.

[sixy-six]

I'm in South-Western Indiana. I am already see the neurologist, just waitnig now for the results oif some test he ran. If they come back showing nothing I can then have him to refers me to a neurosuregon, if he agrees. Insurance has me jumping through all their hopes first.

[cjh]

Be sure you tell your neurologist that you would like an MRI to rule out tethered cord.

[Civilwarbuff59]

IMHO someone renting an electric cart and having it delivered to the ship for them to ride around on because they are 400lbs or more, is not Handicapped, it

is called lack of self indulgence. Someone permanantly Wheelcahair bound is truly Handicapped. Too many people show up at Embarkation, walk up and immediatly spot a ship's wheelchair and jump in it and have their traveling companion take them over to where the real handicapped are and wait to be helped with early boarding. Ship's wheelchairs should not even be available for passengers except in Emergencies or when Medically necessary. All Cruise Lines state that passengers needing Wheelchairs should bring their own , as the ship's are for Emergencies. Those truly Handicapped DO bring their own Wheelchairs.

:eek: Those who book Handicapped rooms because they are larger , even though they are not handicapped are the same people who save deck chairs and theatre seats, and cut in lines as well as probably turn their kids loose the day they came on board.:cool:

 

Man, it must be nice to have the all answers about people you don't know anything about. And if you're going to try and insult people you know nothing about, you might want to use the right terminology. What you are accusing these people of is hardly a lack of "self-indulgence." Self indulgence is in fact, EXACTLY what you are accusing them of. What you are suggesting is that all large people have no self-restraint. At least get your insults correct.

 

For the record, I am a fat person who doesn't blame anyone other than myself for the situation that I am in. I do not book handicapped rooms because I believe there are probably people who need them more than I do even though they would probably be more comfortable for me. I bought a wheelchair, at my own expense, to help me better keep up with my traveling companions. I don't ask for early boarding - that is the preference of most cruise lines. I always purchase two airline tickets because I don't think it's fair to ask someone to give part of the seat they have paid for to me. So while I might indeed be self-indulgent, I am also self-aware. Can you say the same for yourself and your intolerance?

 

You must have quite an extensive library, given the number of books you apparently read merely by looking at the covers.

[prairie_fox]

Here is a link I think more people should read when they think of a person with a disability. It was Originally Posted by etoile in another thread http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/spoons.htm it is called The spoon Theory. I think a few people need to read this and then think before talking about someone that they cant tell has a disability. Im trying to say you can have something wrong even when it doesnt seem like it from the outside. This goes for those overweight/ underweight, it doesnt matter what you look like on the outside. I have my own problems and no one can see them, but I can feel them when the pain becomes so great that walking and moving hurts past the worst pain anyone has ever had. Even not moving hurts on really bad days. I know that those who see me moving real slow have no clue what is happening to me or why I am acting like I am when I am young looking and should be just as normal as anyone who doesnt have some outward look of being with a disability.

Sorry to say so much but I really hate it when others judge someone from the outside not the inside. :(

Lesia

[KAYEF]

That "SPOON THEORY" is wonderful..............a great way to get others to think about a situation.

I know, I almost always look happy and healthy........but when people on another thread were complaining about a person stopping an elevator to go "just one floor"...........I tried to get them to understand that some of us HAVE to do that. We just can't judge by what we see or don't see.

Thanks for something to pass on!:)

[Pegleg1]

Has anyone else wondered why the OP hasn't shown back up to defend himself?

I also wonder what would possess someone to post something like that from out of the blue? Not even in response to another post or opinion. Mighty strange.....:confused:

[Hebe]

Ok time to add my two cents about this subject. First of all the rooms on cruise ships are marked as wheelchair assessable not handicap. They should be booked by people who use a wheelchairs and require a wider door to get into the room and a shower and bathroom that can accomindate a wheelchair. No way does it say anything about walking issues. In fact on some cruise ships, the wheelchair rooms are in the bow and aft which will not help people with walking issues get to the other side of the ship.

 

Wheelchair users have enough problems getting rooms which are taken by the people with handicap tags with walking or internal issues. Let's not make them also compete with people who are wider or taller then the shower.

Remember these people can walk into the standard size room. Wheelchair users are stuck at the door not being able to get into a standard size room.

[prairie_fox]

But dont forget those who need those same bars to help hold themselves up to have a shower due to balance issues you may not know about. Think about all the kinds of HC out there not just wheechair needs. Some need that to help stay balanced.

[cruisinfromcanada]

A person does not have to be in a wheelchair to NEED a HC cabin.

 

My husband looks like a perfectly healthy person when he's standing still or sitting. What people don't always see is the difficulty he has moving around. He can't get in or out of a bathtub, can't climb stairs, needs help getting in and out of bed and needs at least 4 feet of space in front of him to go from a sit to stand position. If he loses his balance and falls he needs a lot of floor space to get himself back up. Yes, he could use a wheelchair but that would mean giving in to his disease.

 

We have endured the comments and stares from people who think we are abusing the system. It's hurtful because we truly aren't.

 

This is just a friendly message to all of you who don't have the experience dealing with non standard disabilities. My husband doesn't like needing special treatment and believe me if he didn't need to label himself by booking a HC cabin he wouldn't do it.

 

Thanks for caring and Happy Cruising

[Queenie2]

Hebe:

 

In addition to what the last two posters said, I also have to add that I know a good number of slow-walkers (who do not use wheelchairs) who cannot manage the step up to the bathroom in a standard cabin. OK, granted it's only 4 inches or so, but it may as well be 10 feet, because they just can't do it. So they need an accessible cabin because of the level entry to the bathroom. Many also need to sit down in the shower and if there's no room in those standard tube-type showers for a shower chair, then they do need the accessible cabin for the roll-in shower.

 

So, in many cases, accessible rooms are needed by people who do not use wheelchairs.

 

In the end, every person is the own best judge of what they can do, and as long as the access features are adequately described then people are able to make an informed decision as to what best suits their needs.

 

Candy

[ashleysmm]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if those people who design the ships took the time to read these posts, research the needs of the disabled and then use this information when designing new ships. Better yet use a focus group prior to final design made up of disabled individuals who are repeat cruisers.

 

I would even be happy if the special needs departments of all the cruise companies would visit this site on a weekly/monthly basis and incorporate some of the suggestions made and use their new found knowledge to better service the disabled and general public.

 

Hopefully sometime in the not too distant future these things will occur. Eventually someone will figure out that our population is aging and even those not disabled will need special consideration when cruising (ie. no 4" threshholds, grab bars and fold down shower seats). You don't need to be disabled to use and appreciate these amenities.

 

My suggestion to everyone is to write your concerns and suggestions and send them to the appropriate person at the cruiseline after your cruise. Please also remember to acknowledge what you did find helpful, including any crew member, that helped to make your cruise rememberable and easier on you.

 

I make this letter a top priority upon my return and I know they are beginning to listen to my complaints and suggestions. The last time we cruised my husband who is in a wheelchair was able to tender via a automated ramp rather than be carried up and down the stairs. This is something I have written about on numerous occasions and I'm happy to see some action. Another of my pet peeves is shore excursions and lack of accessible transportation. I have just booked an accessible shore excursion for Nassau that previously was not available.

 

The cruiselines will listen eventually, but they don't know what your problem is unless you tell them. In light of the Justice Departments ruling I'm guessing that all cruiselines will be a more pro-active in the future.

 

Carol

[sixy-six]

the unforchanit(sp)thing is that the crusies lines like most buisness see the word wheelchair assessable and Handicaped as the same thing. There are many diffenr kinds of handicaps. It would be great if all rooms cuuld be made assessable. MAybe someone will read these post and see that to change just a few rooms that may not be wheel chair assessable to be more handicaped assessable it could help in solveing some of the porblems.

 

As for as stairs form AB people that I get I know long pay them any mind. I feel they are more handicaped than I am. The only regreat I have at being hanidcaped is that I have gone from being very mucsculer to be very over weghit now.

[Splinter]

How many people here sent in comments this spring and summer when they were looking for input on the new ADA regulations for cruise ships? I doubt very many did, since they received comments from ONLY 40 individuals in the entire USA. So many people missed this opportunity to give input who are willing to post here, but not to send an e-mail. We posted several times on this site how to do this. You can be sure that more than 40 corporate/commercial interests posted comments...nearly all protesting any of the proposed regulations. Includes were regulations about the percentage of accessible cabins in each category of cabin, and the overall percentage for the ship, as well as what makes an accessible cabin, gangways, etc. etc. etc. If you aren't part of the solution like this, you are part of the problem.

[Valentine's Mom]

Let;s all get on our skooters, be it 95 lbs. or 799 lbs. and just run them over. I get tired of dealing with people who have to talk abou subjects that they have no knowledge of at all.

[sixy-six]

I with ya Valentine's Mom. just let me put on my studed snow tires first.:D

[prairie_fox]

Maybe you need to post that addy once more. I for one was not on this when you did and would love to write to them and tell them just how it is and what changes would be great. I cant write to someone when I wasnt around to know where to send it or how to help vote on anything.

[Queenie2]

Well the deadline has passed, but as I understand it the Access Board usually reads comments even if they are posted after the deadline. Here's a link to my blog which explains the issue (and there is a link to the Access Board with submission info there)

http://emerginghorizons.com/blog/archive/2004_11_01_archive.html

 

And just for the record I submitted mine:

http://www.access-board.gov/pvaac/comments/emerging-horizons.htm

 

And Splinter submitted hers:

http://www.access-board.gov/pvaac/comments/dunn-k.htm

 

And a whole lot of commercial interests posted their comments too.

 

Here is an index to all of the comments

http://www.access-board.gov/pvaac/comments

 

 

Candy