Pinnicle Grill tips

[kryos]

Stephen - I understand what you are saying - I am thinking in relation to what the cost would be in a land based, upscale restaurant and perhaps should have clarified.

I think the thing to remember is that a cruise is different than a landbased restaurant. A percentage of your cruise fare is computed based on the amount of food a person will consume in a given week.

 

So, even if the meal served in the Pinnacle would go for, say $100, in a landbased restaurant, its value would not be the same on a cruiseship because some of your fare already paid for that meal. Obviously, if you are enjoying dinner in the Pinnacle that evening, you are not eating the meal you already paid for in the dining room.

 

So, I would take that into consideration in figuring out how much that meal in the Pinnacle is worth, and I would certainly not tip based on a $100 meal just because I ate it in the Pinnacle.

 

So, while I do believe the Pinnacle servers should be tipped for good service, I don't base that tip on a meal value of $100+. I base it on how well I was served, if I had to look around for my server when I needed something, if my water glass went unfilled for a long period of time, if dirty plates were promptly removed, etc., etc.

 

Just my humble opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Since the bill wasn't itemized, I didn't really question the total, my wife scolded me afterwards because, of course there was a 15% gratuity included in the price. So the nice lady got a 15% plus a 20% tip on top of that. I won't loose sleep over it, but....:D $10 here and ten bucks there pretty soon we are talking...:D

I sure hope your service was mighty exceptional for a 35% tip! :)

 

Everytime I go out to eat with a group, I always specifically ask if a gratuity is being included on the check. Usually the menu will clearly state the restaurant's policy on that subject. Then, unless we really made unusual demands on the service staff, we'll divy the bill and round up a bit (like if the bill comes to $33.80 per person, we'll just make it $35 even) and leave the server the "spare" change.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[1stMate]

Yep, and the guy sweeping the floor isn't a janitor, he's a facilities engineer!

 

How far do you think you can bend the facts? It's a restaurant. The people serving you are waitstaff. They work, like most restaurant waitstaff, for tips.

 

If tipping bothers you that much, may I suggest you look for a different vacation option which doesn't presume that you will tip the restaurant wait staff. But you're going to have to look long and hard to find one...

Is the main dining room a restaurant?

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think the $10 per day, Heather, is not just for the dining room steward. Some of that goes to your cabin steward as well.

 

 

Rita, I'm not referring to the autotip. I'm referring to the old recommended amounts which I believe was $3.50/pp for the DR Steward and $2.50/pp for the assistant (maybe $2 ... can't remember). So that comes to $6/pp per day or $12/couple. That would be about a $90 tip per couple for a 7 day cruise. Since we never eat breakfast or lunch in the main dining room, that tip is for the dinner only.

What I said in my earlier message is that $150 per couple for the week would be high in my opinion.

1st Mate: Yes, the main dining room is like a restaurant. You walk into a lovely room where someone shows you to your table. You sit and you are served a dinner that you have ordered from a menu. In my view, that fits the definition of a "restaurant".

One final thought: When Stephen spoke of the cost to the cruiseline for the meals in the dining room, that is not the cost one would pay for the meal in a restaurant; that is the cruiseline's budget per passenger. I certainly would never debate those figures because Stephen knows this stuff. But when we tip in a restaurant, we don't tip based on the cost of the food ... we tip based on the cost to us.

[cruzermon]

If tipping bothers you that much, may I suggest you look for a different vacation option which doesn't presume that you will tip the restaurant wait staff. But you're going to have to look long and hard to find one...

 

I realize this discussion is getting pretty broad, but I really don't think this is the primary issue. It seems to me the real question is how much of the tip is already included in the $10/day charge, and what additional, if any, is appropriate. For some reason, HAL isn't forthcoming on an answer. I don't see that someone is really looking to stiff the waiter (BTW, are they all waiters, or are there waitresses too), but just to figure out what is appropriate.

 

Seems similar to me like a large group at a restaurant where they add a mandatory service charge. The issue then isn't about whether the server deserves a tip, but how much above whatever is included in the service charge. At least at this restaurant, one knows what's already included in the tip.

 

I really think HAL needs to be more specific on tipping in the Pinnacle. Seems like all their other rules and guidelines are pretty clear and detailed, but on this one they are curiously silent. My suspicious nature tells me that this isn't hurting the staff, but that's just a personal opinion.

 

This really shouldn't be a difficult question to answer, but HAL needs to answer it. My thought is that $5pp is reasonable, but I have absolutely no idea if it really is. I don't like to be cheap, but I also don't like over-tipping. But, I won't benchmark against restaurant prices, because that doesn't seem to be the way the ship does food service.

[peaches from georgia]

We had a waitress on the Maasdam in the Pinnacle (or stewardess, I guess is the proper term and Lord knows I want to use the correct terminology so I'm not chastised). All other times have been stewards.

 

We never think of any of the $20 PP as a gratuity and always have considered it charged for the quality of the food. There is no way to us that you can compare the food, especially the beef and seafood/fish, in the Pinnacle to the dining room. It is far superior and more costly. We tip totally over and above the $20 charge.

[stanford's girl]

I realize this discussion is getting pretty broad, but I really don't think this is the primary issue. It seems to me the real question is how much of the tip is already included in the $10/day charge, and what additional, if any, is appropriate. For some reason, HAL isn't forthcoming on an answer. I don't see that someone is really looking to stiff the waiter (BTW, are they all waiters, or are there waitresses too), but just to figure out what is appropriate.

 

Seems similar to me like a large group at a restaurant where they add a mandatory service charge. The issue then isn't about whether the server deserves a tip, but how much above whatever is included in the service charge. At least at this restaurant, one knows what's already included in the tip.

 

I really think HAL needs to be more specific on tipping in the Pinnacle. Seems like all their other rules and guidelines are pretty clear and detailed, but on this one they are curiously silent. My suspicious nature tells me that this isn't hurting the staff, but that's just a personal opinion.

 

This really shouldn't be a difficult question to answer, but HAL needs to answer it. My thought is that $5pp is reasonable, but I have absolutely no idea if it really is. I don't like to be cheap, but I also don't like over-tipping. But, I won't benchmark against restaurant prices, because that doesn't seem to be the way the ship does food service.

 

Very well said, cruzermon. Is anyone from HAL listening???

[ekerr19]

We always (unless the service is really terrible) left well over the "suggested" amount, but never double.

 

Heather - I am really curious now - I never knew HAL suggests a tipping amount? I have never seen it and when I asked, I've never been given an amount and was told staff cannot suggest - so we've always just had to "wing" it. :confused:

 

... I also don't think we are over tipping, but that is just me.

 

I really hesitated to enter this discussion because I think tipping is a highly personal matter, we often cruise with the kids and though they seldom eat in the D/R, we would never remove their auto-tip. On our last 10-day cruise, we ate in the D/R only five nights (the kids only once each), left the auto tip in place for all four of us and called it good.

[cruzincurt]

OK, expanding this out a bit, RCCL charges $3.95 for a hamburger at Johnny Rockets, should we leave a tip there? There, like the Pinnicle, the extra charge is a "user fee" for crowd control. Some ships have an Italian restrauant where they charge $20 for getting pasta? How much can "good" pasta cost?

 

The whole idea is to provide a more "exclusive, finer, more elegant" dining experience rather than the mass market dining room with all the noise and clinking dishes, and they can get an extra $20 for it. How else can you explain someone paying $3.95 for 5 cents worth of coffee at Starbucks?

 

They also recognize that there are certain "special" customers that wouldn't be caught dead dining with the masses in steerage class. My sister took a cruise in Europe where the suite passengers had their own dining room.

 

I just leave a tip in the bill holder that they bring the sail'n sign slip in at the end of the meal.

[gizmo]

not trying to be combative, but what exactly does that mean? that you don't tip as a percentage of food cost in a restaurant? so a $20 tip on a $15 meal will put you into one server's hall of fame while that same $20 tip on your $200 meal will get you surly looks?

 

based on what i've read here it strikes me that tips should be comparable to those left for wait staff in the regular dining room - while i normally tip 15%-20% of total bill in a fine restaurant, i'm not about to assume what the cost might have been if i was charged for pinnacle food in a fine restaurant then pay a percentage of that assumption. that just strikes me as inequitable, given what other staff onboard are earning for their services.

 

This makes a lot sense.:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather - I am really curious now - I never knew HAL suggests a tipping amount? I have never seen it and when I asked, I've never been given an amount and was told staff cannot suggest - so we've always just had to "wing" it. :confused:

 

... I also don't think we are over tipping, but that is just me.

 

I really hesitated to enter this discussion because I think tipping is a highly personal matter, we often cruise with the kids and though they seldom eat in the D/R, we would never remove their auto-tip. On our last 10-day cruise, we ate in the D/R only five nights (the kids only once each), left the auto tip in place for all four of us and called it good.

 

I'm sorry, EKerr ... I don't think I was clear. I didn't mean HAL suggests those tips. I was referring to the guidelines which I have seen on many websites as being "suitable" tipping for any cruiseline.

But that doesn't mean I think you are "over tipping". There is no such thing. For us it would be high, but that certainly doesn't mean it's too much. I consider us fair tippers and we become extravagant when the service is really superlative.

I agree with you that tipping is highly personal and I don't think anyone should be criticized for the way they tip (unless they choose not to tip at all;) ). I still believe it should be based on the level of service whether it's in the the Pinnacle or the Dining Room. Excellent service should be rewarded.

[ekerr19]

I'm sorry, EKerr ... I don't think I was clear. I didn't mean HAL suggests those tips. I was referring to the guidelines which I have seen on many websites as being "suitable" tipping for any cruiseline.

 

But that doesn't mean I think you are "over tipping". There is no such thing. For us it would be high, but that certainly doesn't mean it's too much. I consider us fair tippers and we become extravagant when the service is really superlative.

 

I agree with you that tipping is highly personal and I don't think anyone should be criticized for the way they tip (unless they choose not to tip at all;) ). I still believe it should be based on the level of service whether it's in the the Pinnacle or the Dining Room. Excellent service should be rewarded.

 

Thank you Heather - I wasn't sure if I'd just been missing something all these years! We were completely puzzled by the whole tip thing on our first cruise many years ago - we asked the couple seated with us at dinner because they had been on numerous HAL cruises, and we went with what they told us, and we've since passed that info on to any others who ask us...

 

I am one of the few who like the auto-tip, it means a bit less cash we have to bring for tips, and we can always add to it when we see fit.

 

To me the biggest benefit is that no one is left our completely. While the "trickle down" to some may be a pittance, it's still better than none.

 

I love having the 15% gratuity added to the bar bill - it's very convienent and I think it is very fair.

[dakrewser]

Is the main dining room a restaurant?

 

AS opposed to what? A Bar & Grille? A 7-11? The back seat of a Buick??

 

Of course it's a restaurant. And you do tip the wait staff, don't you?

[1stMate]

AS opposed to what? A Bar & Grille? A 7-11? The back seat of a Buick??

 

Of course it's a restaurant. And you do tip the wait staff, don't you?

No, I didn't tip the wait staff. They recieved their cut of the auto tip.

They were brusk and cold. They failed to being a number of dishes to those at our table and needed to be reminded to bring the salad on 2 different occasions. Complaints about the service certainly didn't reverse time and have them correct their error. The Dining Hall on a ship is a banquet facility, not a true restuarant. They meals were paid for in advance and the service was consistent with my 15th Law School Reunion dinner.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Wow! First Mate, don't hold back:p ! Why don't you tell us what you really feel?:o No matter how dreadful you feel the service may have been, the Dining Room is not a banquet facility where one does not generally order from a menu.

 

Paying in advance does not make it any less a restaurant. Say what you will, complain if you must, but let's not pick apart whether or not the dining room is a restaurant.

And since you left the auto-tipping in place, you did most definitely indirectly tip the "wait staff".

[dakrewser]

No, I didn't tip the wait staff. They recieved their cut of the auto tip.

They were brusk and cold. They failed to being a number of dishes to those at our table and needed to be reminded to bring the salad on 2 different occasions. Complaints about the service certainly didn't reverse time and have them correct their error. The Dining Hall on a ship is a banquet facility, not a true restuarant. They meals were paid for in advance and the service was consistent with my 15th Law School Reunion dinner.

 

You didn't like the service, then fine - don't tip. But, in checking my Funk & Wagnalls, a restaurant is defined as "A place where meals are served to the public." (that's the entire entry, by the way). So that seems to cover the DR, the Lido, and the Pinnacle Grill. Also covers the banquet hall.

 

And, since you're so sure that the auto-tip remunerates these people so well - just how much of it do you think they get?

[PRINSENDAM]

They also recognize that there are certain "special" customers that wouldn't be caught dead dining with the masses in steerage class. My sister took a cruise in Europe where the suite passengers had their own dining room.

 

.

 

 

Last year Ruth and I had one of the Penthouses on the OOSTERDAM for a weeeek and then the followingweek again on the WESTERDAM.

 

We 'dined in' on a few of the nights, one evening with my brother Alan and his wife. We decided to make it a formal night. To dine in, a simple call to Neptune Lounge is required. Once you agree on a time, the staff arrive to set up the dining table etc. This is a major production, flowers, the best crystal and china etc. We had drink in the cabin before and one of the Assistant Maitr'ds arrived to take the order. There is a full pantry attached to the penthouse so everything is heated and put onto plates there. The maitr and his three waiters were with us for almost three hours.

 

The standard and style of service we received in the cabin made Pinnacle Grill seem like Dennys! It was almost embarassing to be fussed about so much. The guys were completely professional. The Suite life on HAL ships is fantastic but the Penthouse life is a whole new world.

 

Anyhow, the dinners in the Penthouse resulted in some serious tipping and it was a pleasure to do so!

 

The only 'ptroblem' we had in the penthouse on WESTERDAM was that on embarkation, directly from OOOSTERDAM, we discovered that four of the beautiful crystal door knobs on the wardrobes were missing. We pointed this out to the steward who told us that they had been taken that afternoon by visiting travel agents!!!!!! By next morning they were able to fit brass replicas, made by the engineers.

 

Stephen

[1stMate]

You didn't like the service, then fine - don't tip. But, in checking my Funk & Wagnalls, a restaurant is defined as "A place where meals are served to the public." (that's the entire entry, by the way). So that seems to cover the DR, the Lido, and the Pinnacle Grill. Also covers the banquet hall.

 

And, since you're so sure that the auto-tip remunerates these people so well - just how much of it do you think they get?

 

The main dining room isn't open to the public, it's open to only those who are pax or guests of the line. It's not a restuarant in the same way a Country Club's dining room is not.

 

I was satisfied that $140 in tips were sufficient, regardless of how much they make. In addition to the automatic tip which I would rather have given to the cabin stewards without regard to the dining stewards, the line charges an automatic gratuity on every drink for which there is a charge. I also tipped the dealers at the casino, when I left with money.

[HeatherInFlorida]

The main dining room isn't open to the public, it's open to only those who are pax or guests of the line. It's not a restuarant in the same way a Country Club's dining room is not.

 

I believe it's still called a "dining room" in a Country Club.

[dakrewser]

The main dining room isn't open to the public, it's open to only those who are pax or guests of the line. It's not a restuarant in the same way a Country Club's dining room is not.

 

And they aren't "the public"? It's open to anyone with the wherewithall to afford it - same as any restaurant is.

 

What color is the sky in your world?

[ekerr19]

The main dining room isn't open to the public, it's open to only those who are pax or guests of the line.

 

WHAT?? Then where are we dining? I always thought we were in the D/R???

 

The D/R has been open to every passenger on every ship I've been on.

 

Maybe not to the entire "public" of the universe, but I am at a complete loss as to who the "public" would be if it weren't the cruise ship passengers???

[HeatherInFlorida]

WHAT?? Then where are we dining? I always thought we were in the D/R???

 

The D/R has been open to every passenger on every ship I've been on.

 

Maybe not to the entire "public" of the universe, but I am at a complete loss as to who the "public" would be if it weren't the cruise ship passengers???

 

Believe it or nor, EKerr, I believe 1stMate is telling us that the Dining Room on the ship is not open to the public as in "universe". So that if you were planning to fly in via helicopter, he/she is suggesting that you would not be able to eat in the Dining Room because you hadn't prepaid. I think 1stMate has dug a bit of a hole for him/herself:o

All of this is to support his/her theory that the Dining Room is not that at all, but rather a banquet hall. It's all much to convoluted for me and I have to admit that at this point all I can do is :D ROTF and LOL!!!

[dakrewser]

All of this is to support his/her theory that the Dining Room is not that at all, but rather a banquet hall.

 

Of course, a banquet hall is just as much a restaurant as is McDonald's or Ruth's Chris - they're open to the public and serve meals. Whether or not you need to reserve your table (as on a cruise ship, or often at Ruth's Chris) and whether or not your meal is paid for before you eat (as at a banquet or Mickey D's) or paid for only after you've consumed the food matters not a whit.

 

I think it's just another tortuous excuse for "stiffing the staff" out of the tips they work so hard to earn.

[1stMate]

WHAT?? Then where are we dining? I always thought we were in the D/R???

 

The D/R has been open to every passenger on every ship I've been on.

 

Maybe not to the entire "public" of the universe, but I am at a complete loss as to who the "public" would be if it weren't the cruise ship passengers???

 

For example, if a HAL ship is docked in the Cayman Islands and you happened to on the Cayman Islands, could you make a reservation for dinner on a Hal ship's dining room?

Could any member of the public walk onto a HAl ship, docked in any port, and sit down for a meal in one of their restuarants?

 

If so, then the dining room is open to the public. If not, then it is not open to the public, it is open to passengers who have prepaid for their meals, officers and guests of the line.

[ekerr19]

Could any member of the public walk onto a HAl ship, docked in any port, and sit down for a meal in one of their restuarants?

 

Being that people can't just "walk onto a HAL ship, docked in any port" in the first place, your question is basically moot.

 

It's like you are trying to compare apples to oranges anyway.