Why We Left NCL?

[Kitt Lady]

Well said.

 

Thanks :o Looks like it fell on deaf ears though...

 

I guess I'll go back to...no politics, religion or now…smoking vs. nonsmoking :rolleyes:

[che5904]

Thanks :o Looks like it fell on deaf ears though...

 

I guess I'll go back to...no politics, religion or now…smoking vs. nonsmoking :rolleyes:

 

Actually I didn't even get to your post when I got to the post that obviously misunderstood what I meant.

 

But thats OK, I "hear" just fine. You can hear opinions without agreeing with them or following their advice. :rolleyes:

[che5904]

Thanks for the congrats. I had to go back to post 181 to see what it was that I had said. BTW...how in the world did you remember my post from back then and which one it was???

 

Anyway...I'm trying to understand your comment above but I'm not getting it.

 

Coffeebean the way I read your last post was that you did not like the way you were treated. If someone treats me a certain way that I don’t like, that makes me more aware of that feeling and I try very hard not to treat others like that, to give them the bad feeling that I experienced. If you will notice the part I highlighted in your post I quoted. Your last post stood out to me because after reading it, I was sure you were one of the ones that were trying to banish us to some far away corner (post 181). “smoking in an out of the way place on an upper deck.” Maybe you should ask yourself if those words had been spoken back when you were a smoker and felt very put down, what that would have felt like. I would think someone that was treated like that would try harder to come up with a suitable harmony, rather than use the banishing technique as a suggestion.

 

That was the point to my post.

 

Yes I do have a very good memory, but as I said above more so, because the post stood out. No different than the fan idea that I wrote about above. That came from a non-smoker (regular poster) that was not trying to banish smokers to far away corners or off the ship. But that just wanted to vacation in harmony but wanted to enjoy their balcony without worries. I personally think that is the best idea, I have ever read on these boards. She was taking care of her own comforts without complaining to higher ups (Governments and business owners) to do it for her.

[BaseballMomof4]

Coffeebean the way I read your last post was that you did not like the way you were treated. If someone treats me a certain way that I don’t like, that makes me more aware of that feeling and I try very hard not to treat others like that, to give them the bad feeling that I experienced. If you will notice the part I highlighted in your post I quoted. Your last post stood out to me because after reading it, I was sure you were one of the ones that were trying to banish us to some far away corner (post 181). “smoking in an out of the way place on an upper deck.” Maybe you should ask yourself if those words had been spoken back when you were a smoker and felt very put down, what that would have felt like. I would think someone that was treated like that would try harder to come up with a suitable harmony, rather than use the banishing technique as a suggestion.

 

That was the point to my post.

 

Yes I do have a very good memory, but as I said above more so, because the post stood out. No different than the fan idea that I wrote about above. That came from a non-smoker (regular poster) that was not trying to banish smokers to far away corners or off the ship. But that just wanted to vacation in harmony but wanted to enjoy their balcony without worries. I personally think that is the best idea, I have ever read on these boards. She was taking care of her own comforts without complaining to higher ups (Governments and business owners) to do it for her.

 

 

Very well stated. There are ways to get around inconveniences without banishing others.

[vicnkojo]

OP - now worry about being flamed on this issue. Yes it seems to be a polar topic and being a non smoker - I also do not like to smell smoke when I am trying to enjoy my outdoor space - I also hate to walk by the casino for the very same reason. Hotels have non smoking rooms - why not have dedicated smoking balconies on the ship - make them towards the aft so the smoke blows backwards :). I know that on our last cruise we had an aft balcony and I know there were people above us that smoked as well as one the cabin beside us - but we never really smelled their smoke because it did indeed blow backwards.

wow!! great point. i never thought of that. i don't smoke, but then maybe aft is the way to go for no smokers!!!

[Lou33]

I choose to cruise NCL because they allow smoking on balconies. If and when they eliminate that, I will choose another line to spend my money. If all lines eliminate balcony smoking, I will stop cruising. EASY!

 

Enjoy cruising while you still can. Your time is limited. The writing is on the wall.

 

Many passengers are very happy with Celebrities smoke free balconies, they (the passengers and Celebrity) will never go back. If it gets to the point where most smokers choose NCL just because they allow smoking on balconies, then that will make it even worse for the non-smokers who sail on NCL.

 

So then NCL is faced with a decision. Do they want to market their cruise to the 90% who are smoke free? Or do they want to cater only to the 10% who still smoke? It won't be a hard decision.

[dalgirl]

I protest - the title did not say this was that old chestnut "smoking v non-smoking" can't we find something else to grouse about:confused:

 

Oh, smoking.....hate it:p

[time2cruise1]

Enjoy cruising while you still can. Your time is limited. The writing is on the wall.

 

Many passengers are very happy with Celebrities smoke free balconies, they (the passengers and Celebrity) will never go back. If it gets to the point where most smokers choose NCL just because they allow smoking on balconies, then that will make it even worse for the non-smokers who sail on NCL.

 

So then NCL is faced with a decision. Do they want to market their cruise to the 90% who are smoke free? Or do they want to cater only to the 10% who still smoke? It won't be a hard decision.

 

We will see. Keep in mind Celebrity has eliminated 20% of the potential passenger base. They have joined Princess with smoke free balconies. Both great options for those that have a big problem with smoke. NCL is not alone with their policy in fact more restrictive then RCCL and HAL both of which still have at least one indoor bar that has a smoking section. CCL is almost identical to NCL.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

[e2011]

I re-explained the meaning of this post in post #161.

 

Your post came across as "I want prisons, but no prison in my backyard". You did suggest that the back of the ship be used for smoking cabins. A lot of non-smokers love the aft cabins, you basically said if NCL made those the smoking cabins any non-smoker that wanted one would just have to suck it up (know the risks). But since obviously those back were not important to you it appeared that you felt NCL should make the smoking cabins there.

 

My point was that if you are going to have that attitude then NCL already offers that with my example. It is not a win/win, as much as you would like to think it is. And without going back throught the posts, I believe you mentioned this idea back at the beginning of the thread and was shot down, not by a smoker but by a non-smoker who loves her balcony in the aft. She deals with balconies that are around her with smokers, but I would assume she would hope not to have smokers in every balcony that surrounds her. The closer you group the smokers in a tiny corner the more intense the smoke will be.

 

I am always right so there is no sense arguing with me. Just ask my wife... :)

I like my suggestion, you don't. End of story. Lets move on.

[Lou33]

We will see. Keep in mind Celebrity has eliminated 20% of the potential passenger base.

 

I did a little research online, and I'm very surprised to find many references to support that the percentage of Americans who smoke is in fact about 20%.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/index.htm

 

I'm lucky in that among my family, friends, and coworkers, it is much closer to 1%.

 

But the demographics of people who cruise will be different from the general population. Only 10% of people with an undergraduate degree or higher smoke. And cruiselines will cater to the more educated population, since they are in general, more successful, and they are able to afford a cruise vacation.

 

Only 10% of Americans 65 and older smoke (smokers die off when they are younger). Cruiselines certainly have a large share in this age category. So the percentage of cruise passengers who smoke, may be closer to 10%.

 

But one thing is certain. The percentage of the popluation that smokes is declining, and that trend will continue. And intolerance for second hand smoke will also increase in the future.

[Lou33]

What I don't understand is; there are cruise lines with smoke free balconies. If it really means that much too you book one of those cruise lines.

 

And that's the whole point of this thread. And that's what the OP is planning to do.

 

This will be my first cruise with NCL. If we find that smoke from the adjacent balcony is causing a problem, I may "ask" our neighbors if they can avoid smoking when we are outside. But I can only ask, since they have every right to smoke on their balcony. But if we have a problem with second hand smoke, then I have every right to give my cruise dollars to Celebrity in the future.

[che5904]

But the demographics of people who cruise will be different from the general population. Only 10% of people with an undergraduate degree or higher smoke. And cruiselines will cater to the more educated population, since they are in general, more successful, and they are able to afford a cruise vacation.

 

Only 10% of Americans 65 and older smoke (smokers die off when they are younger). Cruiselines certainly have a large share in this age category. So the percentage of cruise passengers who smoke, may be closer to 10%.

 

But one thing is certain. The percentage of the popluation that smokes is declining, and that trend will continue. And intolerance for second hand smoke will also increase in the future.

 

Are you for real? There is so much "where do heck did you get this from" in this I'm not sure where to start.

 

So I will only say "I fill so purrfectlee luckee that liddle ole uniducated me is able to cruise on them there grate big boats. With all them hie iducated peoples" :rolleyes:

[GirlWriter]

IMO, there is no solution to any issue that hinges on overlapping preferences.

 

It would be easy to solve this if the nature of cigarette smoking was such that it was truly limited to the smoker. But it's not -- it's "smoke," which, by definition, floats and travels and thereby has a reasonable chance of being experienced by someone who has chosen not to smoke.

 

Making it even more difficult than other similar issues is the fact that for some people smoke is more than just annoying; for some, it's physically dangerous.

 

But even with that fact in play, I think the burden of alleviating the issue is always placed on the person with the objection. I'm not a smoker, but to me, that's the only fair thing to be done since there is no way to please everyone.

 

For example, I object very much to foul language. I cringe whenever I'm in public and see or hear someone cursing with every other word, and if my 3YO is with me, I go from being offended to being angry.

 

However, I am realistic in understanding that I have neither the right nor the ability to retrain those folks into using words that I find acceptable. My only recourse most of the time is to get out of earshot as quickly as I can. Sometimes doing that means I miss out on whatever activity it is I had gone there to enjoy. But I choose to do that rather than be upset.

 

Now, if I get on my balcony in October and find that there is the presence or smell of smoke all around me, will I be happy? No, I won't be. My 3YO has asthsma, and beyond just my personal distaste for the smell of smoke, it is not a good idea for me to subject my child to it. I would have to forego the enjoyment of my balcony for the 7 days I'm on the cruise. That would stink, because that's part of what I paid extra to experience, but that would be the choice I would make.

 

And, yes, the next time we were looking to book a cruise, I might extend my search beyond NCL to avoid the problem.

 

But, again, I understand that it would be incumbent upon me as the objecting party to figure out the alternatives to try. I would not expect my smoking neighbors to quit cold turkey for a week to keep from inconveniencing me. (Of course, if they volunteered to do that, I'd be happy about that! :D)

 

I do wish there was some reasonable solution that NCL, or any line, could come up with to make things comfortable for both smokers and non-smokers all the time everywhere on the ship, but I doubt that's possible because of the nature of smoke. I don't get angry with NCL about it, because it's not NCL's fault that smoke floats or that the smell of a cigarette can linger way past the 5 minutes it takes to smoke it.

 

I appreciate the OP's post.

[Lou33]

Are you for real? There is so much "where do heck did you get this from" in this I'm not sure where to start.

 

So I will only say "I fill so purrfectlee luckee that liddle ole uniducated me is able to cruise on them there grate big boats. With all them hie iducated peoples" :rolleyes:

 

I could have worded that better. All I was saying was that on a cruise ship, you will likely find a higher percentage of people with a college degree than in the general population. But I'm sure NCL will welcome any passenger regardless of their education.

 

I make no judgements about a persons educational background. But statistics do show that people with a college degree are much less likely to smoke cigarettes.

[che5904]

I could have worded that better. All I was saying was that on a cruise ship, you will likely find a higher percentage of people with a college degree than in the general population. But I'm sure NCL will welcome any passenger regardless of their education.

 

I make no judgements about a persons educational background. But statistics do show that people with a college degree are much less likely to smoke cigarettes.

 

You will notice that I did not quote your statistical data. If you choose and wish to believe it, I respect that.

 

But what you should realize is cruising costs, compared to years ago, have dropped tremendously, allowing the general population to afford it. Although the U.S. does make up a large percentage of passengers. A lot of other country's citizens also cruise. NCL is one of the most affordable cruiselines, so therefore their demographics are far wider than a more luxury cruise line like Crystal. So keeping all that in mind, I would have to say NCL (which is the line we are speaking about) caters to all. So I respectfully disagree with your statement about higher education and cruising. But again if you choose to believe that...

[jasbo49]

Thanks to the poster back on page 3 or 4 who noted this was a "civil" discussion of shipboard smoking. He/she probably saved me from posting an inflamatory comment.

 

Let me just say as a former smoker that, if I can can quit, you can too. And I don't believe there's a single smoker out there who doesn't know it's a really dumb thing to do, especially if they have a family.

 

A complaining non-smoker on the next balcony actually played a role in my quitting 5 years ago. I decided I didn't like wrecking somebody else's vacation, and of course I knew I was killing myself and depriving my family of a husband-father if I continued. I'd been smoking 40 years, but finally figured out that the only way to have the retirement I'd always wanted was to lose the tobacco addiction.

 

I can hardly believe some of the illogical points made by smokers here. The fish store analogy is one I can see I might have made when I was desperately addicted, but it's utterly senseless. Nobody books a room knowing that the rooms directly below them exist only for the purpose of producing cigarette smoke.

 

Jim

[SunSandSkySea]

.....you would never have smoke smell from anyone since it would be going behind the ship. :cool:

 

wasiii

 

In our experience this was not true at all. We paid extra for an aft balcony and could never use it because our neighbors smoked constantly and never left the balcony the whole cruise. It was a nightmare. Just our experience.

[Lou33]

che5904,

 

My statistical data comes right from the CDC website, so I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy.

 

I agree with you that NCL caters to all, and that cruising is more affordable than ever. It is not affordable for everybody though.

 

I do believe that in general, you would find that the passengers on any cruise ship would be wealthier, have a higher level of education, be older, and be less likely to smoke cigarettes than the general population. Maybe we can agree to disagree.

 

But you know, maybe NCL is the exception. If they allow smoking on the balconies, maybe they already attract more smokers than the other cruise lines. Maybe over 20% of NCL passengers smoke? I suppose if I were a smoker, I might choose NCL just for that reason.

[che5904]

But you know, maybe NCL is the exception. If they allow smoking on the balconies, maybe they already attract more smokers than the other cruise lines. Maybe over 20% of NCL passengers smoke? I suppose if I were a smoker, I might choose NCL just for that reason.

 

That is a large deciding factor in my cruising on NCL. But as pointed out there are about 4 other main-stream cruiselines I could go with if that was my only reason. I choose NCL because I love freestyle, I have been treated well by them, I like their itineraries. But as I've said if NCL chose to stop balcony smoking, that would be the number one reason I would choose another form of vacation. I do elevators as little as possible and refuse to run the stairs that many times if I want a cigarette to go to the bad boy/girl corner.

 

IMO, I feel this decision is NCL and NCL's alone. They are the ones that pay the bills and they are the ones that make their policies. I've said it before and will again. The threat of you leaving or me, is not going to make NCL decide one way or another. And neither is all the debate on this thread. I truly don't wish to argue with anyone and I'd have to bet I have made a few enemies with these smoking threads (which does sadden me). But I only return to these ridiculous threads so at least a smoker's voice is heard.

[catlady461]

Che

I agree that smokers need to have their sasy. I posted way back on this thread and refused to get in on this debate.

I have an aft balcony penthouse on an upcoming cruise so taht I will have access to the balcony to smoke. My husband doesn't smoke but I do.

[catlady461]

Sorry didn't finish my thought. My feeling is I chose NCL for the freestyle and also so I could smoke on my balcony. When and if this policy changes we will be seeking other vacation plans.

We also spend a lot of time in the casino on land and cruises. It seems more people that gamble also smoke since in the land based casinos the non smoking areas are almost empty.

I guess this will be an ongoing problem for non smokers but it is what it is. Sorry.

[mommyto2girls]

I posted a few pages back. All of these statistics are just that statistics. If there are 3000 people on a cruise with you how many of those people are on cruise critics??? If you get 30 people on a roll call and M&G then 1% of the cruisers with you are on these boards.

 

I am a smoker, my husband is a smoker we book only the Haven. We are considerate to our neighbors when on our balcony. I hate when you walk past me in a smoking area and you pretend to cough, I hate when you preach to me about my smoking. I do not preach to you about your wine /alcohol smuggling, being drunk for the entire cruise, being rude and obnoxious in the elevators, casino and yes even the Haven. Being a smoker I can tell you that there are a lot more people than you think smoke on cruises, we seem to all meet in certain smoking areas. And by the way, we are both college grads both with a Masters, we are financially well off. Why doesn't someone check the smoking policy on Cunard??

[Partyatsea]

Mommy2 what confuses me is if smoking on balconies was a potential vacation disaster for me I would sail a line with no smoking on balconies. Seems pretty simple. I'd pick a line with the least chance of being disappointed and if someone smoking on the balcony next to me was that important I would book a line where that in not possible.

Just my 2 cents.

[Lou33]

An open letter to smokers:

 

At one time, I was also a smoker, but I quit a very long time ago. For many reasons, but a few of these are concerns that you have. It was one of the hardest things I ever did.

 

1) There were times when I wanted a cigarette, but I was in I place were I couldn't smoke.

 

2) I didn't want to be banished to a remote area if I needed to smoke.

 

3) If I ran out of cigarettes, then my main objective in life was to get some.

 

4) Other people were put off by my second hand smoke, and because my cloths reeked from cigarettes.

 

5) I didn't like that part of my life was controlled by an addiction.

 

6) I didn't want to greatly increase the chance that I would die early, or have degraded health.

 

7) I didn't like that hacking cough after waking in the morning.

 

8) I could go on and on...

 

So I quit, and all the above problems were solved instantly.

 

It makes me sad when I see somebody smoking. The second hand smoke can be very annoying, but what makes it worse is knowing that the person who is causing this annoyance is destroying his/her body in the process. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Tobacco has been around for a few centuries, but can you imagine if this was a new product, and it was submitted to the Food and Drug Administration for approval today?

 

My wife works in cancer research, so this is an issue that is very close to our family. I hope that one day, you too can free yourself from this addiction.

[mommyto2girls]

Mommy2 what confuses me is if smoking on balconies was a potential vacation disaster for me I would sail a line with no smoking on balconies. Seems pretty simple. I'd pick a line with the least chance of being disappointed and if someone smoking on the balcony next to me was that important I would book a line where that in not possible.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Patrick I am just so confused by the whole wealthier better educated thing. The QM and QE2 allow smoking on their balconies. That is a fairly wealthy demographic. Oh well whatever.

Regards to Liz..

 

Andrea