debjac Posted May 5, 2004 #1 Share Posted May 5, 2004 On our recent cruise we had the pleasure of dining with the Captain. During the course of dinner a tablemate from Canada asked the Captain "Do you think Bush will get reelected?" The Captain thought for a while and then proceeded to give his opinion on the US and our role in Iraq. Although he said he was "pro American", many comments were of the negative nature. My husband and I as very patriotic citizens found this a bit shocking and very uncomfortable. Should I have voiced my opinion to the Canadian gentleman as he was sitting next to me? What would you have done, if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocngypz Posted May 5, 2004 #2 Share Posted May 5, 2004 This has happened to me as well.. though one of my table mates happened to ask our host about Cyprus vis a vis Greece and Turkey. Our host, very gracefully, changed the subject. Your host should have done the same as well. Sex, politics and religion do not make for polite, social dinnertable conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 #3 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Babette is correct, they should have changed the subject and the question should never have been asked. I would have talked about Newt. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanna7 Posted May 5, 2004 #4 Share Posted May 5, 2004 As a Canadian on a cruise, I would never bring up the political situation in the US. I have been asked by US passengers what I think about it and who will win, etc. I usually gave an evasive answer. Some things are better not discussed. Among them religion, politics and how much money people make. What is a good topic, in my opinion, and quite helpful with frequent cruisers, is their advise on shore excursions and also their experiences on those. That Captain was not very tactful. I would have changed the subject and mentioned something about the weather or the last or next port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debjac Posted May 5, 2004 Author #5 Share Posted May 5, 2004 It seems we are all in agreement but do you think we should have said something or was our silence and shocked faces enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctflag Posted May 5, 2004 #6 Share Posted May 5, 2004 You did the right thing, no sense in making an awkward moment worse for everyone. They already have their opinions, you probably wouldn't change them. Just my 2cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birders Posted May 5, 2004 #7 Share Posted May 5, 2004 If such an egregious social error occurred and the host didn't do anything about it, I would have jumped in smilingly, enthusiastically, and very strongly with some shipboard equivalent of the classic, "How ABOUT those Red Sox!?!" That would make the point that this is not an appropriate dinner-table-with-strangers conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted May 5, 2004 #8 Share Posted May 5, 2004 The Canadian who brought this up, well aware of the make up of the table and the sensitivity of the topic...was nothing less than very rude. While it may be a valid point of discussion it WAS NOT the right time or place to debate it. It really doesn't matter what side of this issue I am on...I am sorry if the bad form of one of my countrymen caused you to become uneasy. Dan CenturyX1,GalaxyX2,HorizonX5,VolendamX1, Zenith to Bermuda Oct/04 Century to E.Caribbean Feb/05 **email mrtnb(at)efni(dot)com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiseForever Posted May 5, 2004 #9 Share Posted May 5, 2004 We experienced a similar situation at the Captain's table on the Constellation. The subject was Cuba, and I guess it was an approiate topic because one women was a Cuban professor, now living in the United States. Turns out it wasn't an issue, since all 11 of us seated at he table found the US policy toward Cuba to be stupid and non-helpful to the people of Cuba. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birders Posted May 5, 2004 #10 Share Posted May 5, 2004 But Ron "Cruiseforever", perhaps not all 11 at your table really felt that way -- could be that some might have disagreed but not want to say anything -- they might be shy, they might just not want to be argumentative, they might have just wanted the subject changed but didn't know how to do it. And so they ended up being uncomfortable. You never know. Again, politics is not a good idea as a subject among relative strangers stuck at a table together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debjac Posted May 5, 2004 Author #11 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Danno - no need for the apology - I have wonderful Canadian friends. This was not a rude Canadian, it was a rude table mate. I find more fault with the Captain for discussing the question. If the subject was ignored or dropped, we would have chalked it up to ignorant table manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiseForever Posted May 5, 2004 #12 Share Posted May 5, 2004 birders, In this case, I would certainly disagree with your rebutal, only because, as a group, we had a wonderful 15 minute talk about Cuba, with a very knowledgable person and everyone was involved in the conversation, since this woman was a highly educated professor. While I would agree with you that not everyone would agree on every topic, this group was very compatible and we spent many hours together with the same group. Several of us hosted parties in our suites, we had the penthouse and hosted one that the captain attended. The professor was delightful and we all spoke of our desire to visit Cuba in the near future. You may note today that Secretary of State Powell is quoted as saying that he finds our policy toward Cuba to be terrible. My point is that having a person , such as she at the table, certainly steered the direction of the conversation; just as the direction might be moved, if a congressman, athlete, or actor were present. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birders Posted May 5, 2004 #13 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Ron - First, I made no mention of my feelings on the issue - no matter WHAT I think I believe that politics is not for discussion among shipboard strangers at the table. Thank you for clarifying that your group was more than strangers - you obviously knew each other from conversations and partying enough to know what was an acceptable subject to broach. Debjac's original story was the more normal circumstance at the Captain's Table - a dozen or so strangers (uh, I mean, except for the other half of each couple! ) who share a couple of hours of the basic pleasantries (along with fine wine and, occasionally, a follow-up bridge tour!). May we all have smooth sailing ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagger Posted May 5, 2004 #14 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I have had very healthy debates with my Canadian friends on the state of politics in this country and in theirs. I do not think it is such a taboo subject to broach. The captain is Greek? Why should anyone be worried about his opinion anyway? It is not like he will be voting in the US elections anyway. Second of all, I have never understood how someone who supports the military but not the policies of the administration is labeled "un"-patriotic. It is the very foundation of the United States to question the authority and policies of its leaders. Of course if you were English in the late 18th century, you would probably label several of the founding fathers as unpatriotic to king and country as well. "People don't know there's such a thing as recreational defibrillation" - Walter Becker on NPR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birders Posted May 5, 2004 #15 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flagger: I have had very healthy debates with my Canadian friends on the state of politics in this country and in theirs. I do not think it is such a taboo subject to broach.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Flagger: Debating with FRIENDS is NOT what this thread was about. Read my answer to Ron again. You'll see that I agreed with him that he and his fellow Captain's Table diners were not strangers; they knew what were, for them, appropriate topics. Whether anyone loves a good debate or not, isn't the issue. It's the comfort level of ALL parties at a table that is important -- and, UNLESS everyone knows each other well enough to truly be aware, ocyngypz's original line (the classic - "Sex, politics and religion do not make for polite, social dinnertable conversation") is the way to ensure comfort for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDAD73 Posted May 5, 2004 #16 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Well, sounds to me like maybe you are a bit more Republican than Patriotic. The free exchange of ideas and opinions is central to being Patriotic. If he was critical of the US, maybe he had a point and well worth discussing. If you want to go thru life eating "milk toast", then you will never experience the spice of life. These types of conversations are not to be avoided, but engaged in a civil and interesting manner. Until Summit Leaves For the Panama Canal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transactionchick Posted May 5, 2004 #17 Share Posted May 5, 2004 In other countries, especially in Europe, a good spirited political conversation is relished (at any time) so it is very possible that the Captain saw nothing wrong with his comments. Here in the US, we discuss money and how much things cost but in other countries that is considered very rude. So it just depends on your cultural point of view. Happy Sailing! Cyndi Wagner, AKA Transaction Chick Carnival Celebration - 5/98 RCI Rhapsody - 5/00 Carnival Sprit - 10/01 Celebtrity Mercury - 5/04 Parley Vouz Francais? Si vous pouvez, email moi en Francais! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birders Posted May 5, 2004 #18 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Hockeydad writes, "The free exchange of ideas and opinions is central to being Patriotic." Of COURSE it is - and the original poster may be patriotic per your definition! But once again, one can RELISH a good political debate and exchange those ideas but pick appropriate time, people and place. The point of my posts is strictly to say that, in the social situations of the normal Captain's Table experience, one should never assume that everyone wants to discuss these topics. One should empathize with the fellow diners and graciously consider how they might feel discomfort. (And that includes talking about "money and what things cost"!) Smooth sailing to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Ann Posted May 5, 2004 #19 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Sooo. how 'bout those Sox? Dave & Ann Countdown until our first Millennium cruise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Lois R Posted May 5, 2004 #20 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Yea..how about 'em? Next up...HORIZON Sept 18th to Bermuda! See My Century and Mercury Pictures at: http://community.webshots.com/user/lovescruising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich&Natalia Posted May 5, 2004 #21 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Ummmm....with all the deal with A-Rod auction, Pedro Martinez incident last season, off-season pissing contest, etc, maybe we should categorize the Sox with politics and religion. -Rich 'til I'm back on the Galaxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollym Posted May 5, 2004 #22 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Whoa! This is a scary thread. Definitely hope some of you don't show up at my next table assignment. We've lived in four European countries and never found it to be acceptable to discuss politics or religion at any dinner table unless it was in our own home and just the two of us who know how to fight hand to hand combat after 35 years of marriage. Hey, how about those Red Sox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay & eileen Posted May 5, 2004 #23 Share Posted May 5, 2004 hollym: Thank you!! Couldn't agree more with your well-stated comments. Eileen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiseForever Posted May 5, 2004 #24 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Under most circumstances, politics or religion should probably not be discussed during dinner with a group of strangers. However, the captain of the ship, or more importantly the "master" as it is usually printed, does have a little latitude if he choses to initiate a lively discussion. In our situation, while several of us had previouly met, the disussion about Cuba was a very natural progression, since we had a eminient Cuban scholar with whom to share a lively intelligent discourse. It was interesting to me that our group which hailed from Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Forida and of course very liberal California appeared to all utter the same conclusions on the topic. The captain, being Greek, was extremely interested in our opinions. For myself, I do prefer a more lively dinner conversation than, "gee what did u do today, and wasn't that a good bargin, or the beach was so hot". The interchange of ideas and opinions is one of the things that makes cruising so much fun. A chance to meet and discuss diffenent viewpoints without coming to blows can be very rewarding. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge's mom Posted May 6, 2004 #25 Share Posted May 6, 2004 In an ideal world, one could bring up an extremely controversial subject at a table filled with people who do not know each other, and a wonderful, exchange of ideas would ensue. We all know that doesn't happen in everyday life. I don't go on cruises to get in or be a bystander in controversial, heavy hearted discussions. I go to banter inane commentary with such strangers - i.e., "what did you like about Aruba?" Personally, I want to save my spirited discussions about my religion and my political views for an appropriate forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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