Evolution of HAL in 2013........

[Jade13]

Do you really think everyone brings cases of wine onto HAL ships? Most people I've met on board aren't even aware of this. I would guess a small percentage, probably well less than 25% bring any wine on board. An even smaller percentage, probably less than 1% bring cases of wine on board. I have no proof, its just a guess. I do know some people that cruise on HAL because of their liberal wine policy and may decide to go somewhere else if they rescind the policy. It makes very good business sense to do little things that make you different from your competition. Perks and comps are given away all the time in the travel business. Do those make any business sense to you? Why would they give things away when they can sell them?

 

I am being taken out of context. It makes no sense to me to give away the staterooms for $499.00 per person and allow unlimited wine onboard. Now, the cruises we take have higher per diems and we have never paid those type of rates on Voyage of the Vikings, South America and Canada/New England. HAL is all over the place when it comes to pricing, obviously depending on whether the cruises are selling and the competition.

[Jade13]

ahh- but that new cruiser you mentioned,that wants more to do,they pay $500 for a phone and sleep outside of the store to get one. :rolleyes:

 

HA HA. My brother-in-law did that. However, the Apple Manager just put 3 aside for me and I got in the line the next day when there was only a 10 minute wait, although mine were on hold. I guess they consider me a valued customer. Btw, with a plan the phones were only $200-$400.00, not $500.00.

[yukongold]

If cruise lines cut service any further, go to pay-for-fee models for meals, entertainment, etc., there will be very little reason to choose cruising over land-based vacations, except for price. Bigger rooms, less hassles with trying to catch a ship with a 2:30 all-aboard time, and more attentive service will be able to be found on land.

 

It's getting to the point at which the major selling point of a cruise is that it is dirt cheap - that isn't exactly making your fellow pax a more gentile group.

 

I would agree with your comment. An all fee based cruise would be much less enticing.

[BellBoys]

We bring about 10 bottles of wine for a 7 day cruise only because there are certain varietals that we enjoy that they ship may not carry. We don't drink them in our room and on the first or second day drop them off with the MDR or Pinnacle wine steward to keep chilled. We gladly pay the $18 corkage fee as its fair and reasonable, given that our wines cost between $10 and $35 per bottle adding $18 is still a better value in our minds to drink what we like.

 

We dined with some 3* Mariners who took advantage of the wine packages and may consider the next time as they looked like good options.

[BellBoys]

Your analysis is most interesting since it's what my Family and I considered at when planning our upcoming Panama Canal voyage.

 

While we could have paid a bit less to go w/ HAL in a pair of Deluxe Suites, the itinerary wasn't much more than a Mexico cruise w/ one Caribbean port and the Canal: Not interesting to us at all.

 

We considered Crystal: Highly Recommended, All inclusive, Interesting itinerary, Amazing reputation for food, service and enrichment activities. We found that we could take an 18 day cruise in their lowest outside cabins (no Balcony) for @$6000/pp.

 

Then we looked at Cunard and found that for roughly the same money we could do a 15 day World Cruise segment in a pair of Princess Grille suites. (Roughly equivalent to a HAL SS in size - which is fine w/ me) Reasonable itinerary with 3 Caribbean ports, lots of sea days, two weeks of Made-to-Order A La Carte dining at our own table, plenty of enrichment activities and all the trimmings: Bingo!

 

I'm planning on writing about our experinces aboard Queen Elizabeth - So look for it starting a couple weeks from now...

 

 

We look forward to your review as we have not even considered Cunard. Thanks for the insight!

[jaguarstyper]

I am being taken out of context. It makes no sense to me to give away the staterooms for $499.00 per person and allow unlimited wine onboard. Now, the cruises we take have higher per diems and we have never paid those type of rates on Voyage of the Vikings, South America and Canada/New England. HAL is all over the place when it comes to pricing, obviously depending on whether the cruises are selling and the competition.

Are you suggesting that the wine policy should be changed if you pay less than a certain fare? I'm paying over $5000 for my Alaska cruise. Is it ok for me to bring a few bottles of wine? I'm totally confused about your context. What does the wine policy have to do with the fare being paid. No one is forcing HAL to reduce fares.

[Typhoon1]

Actually you can go to an all inclusive resort and get that. It's not for me but I know the drinkers usually like it:D.

 

Prices are higher than cruising. Cruising is the best travel bargain available.

[bepsf]

which is why I said in my post

 

Sorry - I missed that!

:o

[Katie333]

This is an interesting question ... I think the wave of the future (unfortunately) is more added-fee options/services and food.

 

Cruising has never been all-inclusive but even in the years I've been cruising (less than 10), I've seen more and more for-fee services. It's definitely not specific to HAL either.

 

The cruiselines are somehat 'tricking' people into the bargain prices of the fare, and then surprising them with lots of specialty services which can really add up over the course of a cruise. I've heard of lots of newbie (and some experienced) cruisers who end up with $1000+ bills at the end of a 7 day cruise.

[Wakepatrol]

Sorry - I missed that!

:o

 

It's okay... you can come out of your corner now;)

[world~citizen]

The fact that they allow everyone to bring on unlimted amounts of wine, etc actually makes no business sense.

 

Unless it brings pax back.

[cruz chic]

Prices are higher than cruising. Cruising is the best travel bargain available.

They aren't from Calgary. If you consider the cruise alone then maybe not but I can't get on any ship without air.

[cruz chic]

Unless it brings pax back.

If the wine policy lures people on I feel sorry for them. I like my wine but I sure don't pick my cruiseline based on that.

[slp123]

Then we looked at Cunard and found that for roughly the same money we could do a 15 day World Cruise segment in a pair of Princess Grille suites. (Roughly equivalent to a HAL SS in size - which is fine w/ me) Reasonable itinerary with 3 Caribbean ports, lots of sea days, two weeks of Made-to-Order A La Carte dining at our own table, plenty of enrichment activities and all the trimmings: Bingo!

I'm planning on writing about our experinces aboard Queen Elizabeth - So look for it starting a couple weeks from now...

 

I did that very cruise, first segment of World Cruise in a Princess Grill cabin, only it was 10 years ago and it was on the QE2. It was one of the most educational and memorable cruises I have ever been on! We even were able to arrange for a private tour of the Panama Presidential Palace and were introduced to Panama's First Lady

[CowPrincess]

They aren't from Calgary. If you consider the cruise alone then maybe not but I can't get on any ship without air.

 

Yeah, no kidding. We are spending enough on our upcoming vacation to cover several weeks at an AI. Air, hotels, meals, it all adds up quickly.

[CowPrincess]

Sorry - I missed that!

:o

 

No worries, I though you might have ;)

[tjcletsgo]

Isn't that a given in every business/every cruise line?

 

A certain number of Celebrity, Princess, Carnival et al cruisers die each year. Those cruisers may have been loyal to HAL or any of the other lines? Those same persons may have been loyal to Whole Foods for their groceries but they are no longer on their 'customer rolls' anymore either.

 

Every business loses a certain percentage of their base every week, month, year....... It is not unique to HAL.

 

No?

 

The other cruise lines are constantly adding entertainment/new dining venues/new spa amenities, etc. What is HAL adding? Ventriliquists? Seriously? They have 3 upcharge restaurants, two of which serve edible food. They have no rock walls, ice skating rinks, no mini golf, bowling alleys, etc. Most nights the ship is dead when the late diners are finished. I've sailed HAL twice for itinery only in a S suite. I have no plans to sail HAL in the future, especially after reading posts where people put up with no toilets or air conditioning and chalk it up to "ship happens":eek:. Seriously? Raising prices on cruises fewer and fewer people want to take is NOT going to happen. HAL needs to crawl into the 21st century if they want to survive at all.

[Wakepatrol]

The other cruise lines are constantly adding entertainment/new dining venues/new spa amenities, etc. What is HAL adding? Ventriliquists? Seriously? They have 3 upcharge restaurants, two of which serve edible food. They have no rock walls, ice skating rinks, no mini golf, bowling alleys, etc. Most nights the ship is dead when the late diners are finished. I've sailed HAL twice for itinery only in a S suite. I have no plans to sail HAL in the future, especially after reading posts where people put up with no toilets or air conditioning and chalk it up to "ship happens":eek:. Seriously? Raising prices on cruises fewer and fewer people want to take is NOT going to happen. HAL needs to crawl into the 21st century if they want to survive at all.

 

Haven't you seen the sock puppet show?

[cruz chic]

The other cruise lines are constantly adding entertainment/new dining venues/new spa amenities, etc. What is HAL adding? Ventriliquists? Seriously? They have 3 upcharge restaurants, two of which serve edible food. They have no rock walls, ice skating rinks, no mini golf, bowling alleys, etc. Most nights the ship is dead when the late diners are finished. I've sailed HAL twice for itinery only in a S suite. I have no plans to sail HAL in the future, especially after reading posts where people put up with no toilets or air conditioning and chalk it up to "ship happens":eek:. Seriously? Raising prices on cruises fewer and fewer people want to take is NOT going to happen. HAL needs to crawl into the 21st century if they want to survive at all.

Sounds like RC is the line for you. I`m delighted that they don`t have skating rinks, rock climbing walls etc. I want a vacation on a ship not at a rec center or mall. Whatever does it for you.

[cruz chic]

Haven't you seen the sock puppet show?

Yes, and it`s awesome :D:p;).

[tjcletsgo]

Haven't you seen the sock puppet show?

 

I heard it was the victim of "cost cutting":D

[slp123]

In general, did you know that the older and smaller the HAL ship, the larger the standard ocean view and veranda cabins .(I leave out the very different Prinsendam which was originally built for a different cruise line).

 

In fact the older and smaller a HAL ship is the larger its non-suite cabins. The very opposite is true for Celebrity ships...the newer ships have larger Veranda cabins outside decks. (I am not sure about Princess).

 

In fact, HAL's non-suite ocean view and veranda cabins are significantly larger on its 8 oldest ships--- larger than anything offered on any Celebrity ship. These are the 8 ships

 

 

Maasdam (1993)

Statendam (1993)

Ryndam (1994)

Veendam (1996)

Rotterdam (1997)

Volendam (1999)

Amsterdam (2000)

Zaandam (2000)

 

Starting with HAL's larger ships, with more amenities and many more veranda suites, HAL significantly cut the size of the cabins on the below listed ships while at the same time adding a greater choice and variety of public venues.

 

Zuiderdam (2002)

Oosterdam (2003)

Westerdam (2004)

Noordam (2006)

Eurodam (2008)

Nieuw Amsterdam (2010)

 

 

And that provides HAL with a unique opportunity. It can upscale its product with the older ships stressing larger cabins and more intimate and attentive service with more unique ports which are not overwhelmed with mega-ships. It can offer more educational activities, lectures and cruise intensive itineraries.

 

The newer ships should cruise itineraries where the ship and its activities are much more the focus of the cruise than the ports. This is particularly good for Caribbean and Mexican cruises as well as East cost/Canadian and West cost/Canadian cruises. The newer ships are also better able to offer special areas for teens and kids---something provided already on Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam. The older ships might still retain a formal night per 7 day cruise but the newer ships would all follow the lead of Azamara and Oceania and go upscale country club casual every night.

 

The only problem now is, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, it HAL's management seems to have gone to sleep. What they are failing to realize is that their most loyal customers are very old seniors and many are entering an age where travel significantly declines. Seniors, once they enter their 80's begin to travel less, significantly less after 85. Meantime there is a waiting market of retiring baby boomers, who want to travel, are ready to go places they could not go when they had young children but and they want a sophisticated yet casually elegant product (where crying children are rarely heard).

[sailorbill]

Bringing wine and booze onboard during port stops reminds me of an incident I witnessed in St. Thomas near the end of a transatlantic cruise on the Westerdam. In early afternoon I was returning to the ship from the shops right next to the pier. It was very hot and humid which is normal for St. Thomas in November. A little way in front of me a man was carrying a paper shopping bag that seemed to be heavy. I could see a dark spot on one side of the bag. It was moisture condensate from a cold bottle of wine or champagne. Sure enough, just as he was approaching the gangway, the weakened paper bag gave way and all of the wine and booze bottles broke open on the hot pavement. A huge cloud of mixed scotch, vodka, bourbon, and wine fumes filled the air. We were lucky no one was smoking nearby or there would have been an alcoholic fireball. The moral of the incident is that sometimes it is cheaper to buy your drinks on board.

[kkorman]

Sounds like RC is the line for you. I`m delighted that they don`t have skating rinks, rock climbing walls etc. I want a vacation on a ship not at a rec center or mall. Whatever does it for you.

 

I think you are kind of missing the point of this thread. Bottom line is HAL needs to appeal to a more diverse crowd and while it might not mean an ice skating rink, it is more than just saying HAL is not for you. Staying on their current path means price is their main draw... Which means they have to be priced at Carnival rates. We will see what the new build holds.

[kkorman]

In general, did you know that the older and smaller the HAL ship, the larger the standard ocean view and veranda cabins .(I leave out the very different Prinsendam which was originally built for a different cruise line).

 

In fact the older and smaller a HAL ship is the larger its non-suite cabins. The very opposite is true for Celebrity ships...the newer ships have larger Veranda cabins outside decks. (I am not sure about Princess).

 

In fact, HAL's non-suite ocean view and veranda cabins are significantly larger on its 8 oldest ships--- larger than anything offered on any Celebrity ship. These are the 8 ships

 

 

Maasdam (1993)

Statendam (1993)

Ryndam (1994)

Veendam (1996)

Rotterdam (1997)

Volendam (1999)

Amsterdam (2000)

Zaandam (2000)

 

Starting with HAL's larger ships, with more amenities and many more veranda suites, HAL significantly cut the size of the cabins on the below listed ships while at the same time adding a greater choice and variety of public venues.

 

Zuiderdam (2002)

Oosterdam (2003)

Westerdam (2004)

Noordam (2006)

Eurodam (2008)

Nieuw Amsterdam (2010)

 

 

And that provides HAL with a unique opportunity. It can upscale its product with the older ships stressing larger cabins and more intimate and attentive service with more unique ports which are not overwhelmed with mega-ships. It can offer more educational activities, lectures and cruise intensive itineraries.

 

The newer ships should cruise itineraries where the ship and its activities are much more the focus of the cruise than the ports. This is particularly good for Caribbean and Mexican cruises as well as East cost/Canadian and West cost/Canadian cruises. The newer ships are also better able to offer special areas for teens and kids---something provided already on Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam. The older ships might still retain a formal night per 7 day cruise but the newer ships would all follow the lead of Azamara and Oceania and go upscale country club casual every night.

 

The only problem now is, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, it HAL's management seems to have gone to sleep. What they are failing to realize is that their most loyal customers are very old seniors and many are entering an age where travel significantly declines. Seniors, once they enter their 80's begin to travel less, significantly less after 85. Meantime there is a waiting market of retiring baby boomers, who want to travel, are ready to go places they could not go when they had young children but and they want a sophisticated yet casually elegant product (where crying children are rarely heard).

 

Interesting idea, though don't you think that the lack of verandas on these smaller ships with unique itineraries is a huge negative for potential revenue.