Would you sue if you were on Triumph?

[wolfganghowell]

I'd like to sue him (paulgraff) for starting this thread and wasting everyone's time.

 

lol - yeah especially since he has another thread on the exact same thing.

 

All due respect, OP, but this accident is not about you and has no effect on you. Your outrage seems a bit misplaced. The outrage - which remains to be seen if it is legitimate or not, belongs to those affected - the passengers, crew, families, friends, coworkers.

 

I realize common sense is severely lacking on CC most of the time but why don't we stop the endless speculating and wait until these poor folks get home? I know, I know. Silly me.

 

I feel terrible for the passengers and crew and hope that the majority of them are comfortable and calm. I'm sure we will have all kinds of stories, from good to hideous.

 

When Splendor happened, I thought of what we do in the situation. Thank goodness we always have a balcony so I would open that for fresh air, hope to have enough food and water to get by and read and sleep as much as I could. I'm sure emotions would be fear, anger, depression, despair and hopefully if living conditions were not dangerous, I would be able to find humor (or at the very least a memorable story) in the situation.

 

And sorry - but someone would actually be po'd because the booze was cut off? That is an absolutely moronic statement. Any one with a brain would know that would be even more of a disaster.

 

I hope all make it home safely and share their stories so we can learn what we need from this situation.

[ducklite]

I think it would be pretty much implied that the cleaner would not charge for the ruined shirt. I would also think that cleaner would compensate for value of shirt with free cleaning services or pay you for replacement value of the shirt and call it good.

 

I wouldn't want "free future cleaning," I'd want the $50 cash to replace my shirt. What good is "future free cleaning" going to do for me when I don't have a shirt to get cleaned?

 

Would you be entitled to anything beyone that? Are you saying that as compensation CCL should beyond reimbursing for cost of this cruise, and exependitures on SS card, and issuing a credit for future cruise for same cabin class, they should also pay their way to the port, and for parking on the future cruise as well? I suppose you would not let the cleaner off the hook unless they got you a whole new wardrobe.

 

I'm not saying they should pay for it, just that it's not a "free cruise" because there are out of pocket costs which will be incurred to use their offer. Of course I wouldn't expect the cleaner to buy me a new wardrobe. Why are you asking such a ridiculous question when I already said exactly what I'd expect?

 

I think as a gesture of good will Carnival should offer either a "free" cruise or the cash equivalent. Not everyone will be able or willing to take a cruise with them anytime soon. I know my vacation time is already planned through the end of 2015.

[Mississippian]

I see you put 'a reason' you would sue.

 

you CANT sue (and win) for a lack of maintenance if nothing happened to you. You need to sue for 'something'. Injuries, lost cruise fees, lost wages, lost airfares, etc... you can, however not cruise on Carnival again if you think that they neglect their ships.

 

If I go to the cleaners and put in a shirt and because of their neglected equipment, they ruin my shirt... They compensate me the entire shirt price and for my next shirt free and gas it costs to get to the cleaners and back... I will not be able to sue them for anything since they made restitution. I can stop going there. thats about it

I don't know admiralty law, but under general tort law you can certainly sue for the misery of not being able to sleep in an air conditioned room, of being forced to live in a urine and feces covered ship. I imaging some of these people will have nightmares in the coming weeks. They may even need to see a doctor for sleeping pills. Thus they will have received an injury, emotional distress, requiring medical attention (and I dare say, in many cases not made up).

 

I think there may be a legitimate question of fact as to whether Carnival was aware of conditions with the engine that made a fire more likely. If so, was Carnival negligent in allowing the ship to sail anyway? I don't know, that is a question of fact. Assuming it is acceptable for the ship to sail, should Carnival have taken extra precautions in light of the fact that there might have been a slightly higher risk of fire? Again, I don't know, it is a question of fact.

 

Sometimes bad things just happen. That may be the case here. But it is a legitimate subject of inquiry as to whether or not Carnival was negligent. If it was, there will not be a person on the ship without substantial damages. No not in the millions or anything, but far more than a refund of the cruise fare and a free cruise.

 

Again, my comments are based on general tort law. I don't know squat about admiralty.

[texsun49]

The problem with your logic that everyone on the planet isn't made as a copy of another person. Your case is your case. Your case is not a reflection of anyone but your case. You don't have to approve of nor have ANY say in what a medically trained person decides when it comes to the mental health of another living human being.

 

 

As for how someone handles something is none of your darn business. :mad::mad:

 

I just want to add I'll be copying the replies of the people who think that someone in this case has no right to PTSD and taking it to a round table on mental health. It really is people like you folks that force people with mental health problems not to seek treatments because you think you have to right to say what another person is suffering is "real" and "legitimate".

 

Here is a little nugget for your "roundtable". Perhaps coping with situations and yes trauma in life is made worse by those constantly telling others that they are a victim of one thing or another, and they need someone enlightened to help them cope with it. People are actually more resilient than you might think, telling people they might have issues sometimes causes the issue. I am not saying tragedies can not cause PSTD, but some self important types want to assign it to everyone that has suffered some inconvienence in life. We all have been shaped by the life we have lived and things we have gone through, some have a need to sit at roundtables and feel they have the answers for others.

[ducklite]

I'm not saying what they're going through isn't "real." But inconveniences that they are having to put up with are NOT the same as truly horrible, horrible things that DO cause PSTD for some people. You can be incensed all you want, you believe the way you want to believe and I'll do the same.

 

Losing my father after watching him suffer for years with Alzheimer's was terrible, as was seeing my mother-in-law lose her long battle with Lou Gehrig's disease. But if I had to compare those with "suffering" from certain inconveniences the people on the Triumph are experiencing, there is no comparison. They are not the same thing at all.

 

Now if someone was hurt from the fire the ship had, that would be different. But. No one was hurt. They're dealing with inconveniences. If some can't handle those inconveniences and their doctor diagnoses them with PTSD then how in the world do they handle REALLY bad things in their lives? :confused:

 

Some people don't. That's why there are suicides, anti-depressents, and in-patient hospitalization. What is incredibly stressful to you might be a minor inconvenience at best to me--and vice versa.

[rellersi]

Definately, I am going to sue them even though I was not on the Triumph. That fire is directly related to the plane that was supposed to take me home from my Casino Junket, having engine troubles, which forced me to stay at the casino an extra day and lose an extra $500. While I am at it lets blame the rain in NC yesterday on the fire as well

[ducklite]

I believe that is number 5 on the lawsuit list.

:rolleyes:

 

By largest I meant the ones with the highest judgements. Look at the multiple billion+ dollar judgements in the tech sector. It would take an awful lot of personal injury cases to even come close to one of those bad boys.

[thistimeplease]

I definitely would sue and I imagine CCL is going to have their hands full with all the lawsuits once the ship docks.

[MissKIA]

No, of course not. Sue for what? They are already getting all their money back plus another cruise. That's plenty of compensation.

 

People are so quick to sue, It's ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[skyeman27]

No!!!

[mom2tcdx2]

Ultimately I think suing is just one of the problems with our country today. So someone was inconvenienced, no one was hurt or killed. So you have a week wasted, big deal. I think the offer to refund money, discount off another cruise and helping people to get home seems sufficient to me. So perhaps my vacation was ruined, all in all I still don't see that as any reason to sue someone.

 

Accidents happen. I don't know why people seem to sue, even when they have lost a loved one. What does suing get you? A little cash? It doesn't bring back your loved one, I just don't get it. Does it make people feel better?

[sakapfet]

No, of course not. Sue for what? They are already getting all their money back plus another cruise. That's plenty of compensation.

 

People are so quick to sue, It's ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Have you ever heard of pain and suffering?

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fire-carnival-cruise-ship-strands-4-200-article-1.1261258

[pollux]

When going on vacation you take your changes thats what insurance is for.

Are you going to sue Chevy when you car brake down on the way to Las Vegas for the loss?

Same when you go to a country other than the US without a passport its your loss.

When you get stuck in Mexico with no heat or hot water or food you hate.

[EnTnSA]

This was an example. Use common sense.

 

My common sense tells me that human beings are all different. What is very real stress for one is hardly noticeable for another.

 

I will provide an example:

 

My wife is very afraid of the ocean. It took a lot for me to convince her to go on our first cruise. She was very nervous the first time, but I convinced her that it was OK to trust that Carnival took the necessary precautions to make our vacation safe. If there was an emergency incident at sea, regardless of how benign it was, she would experience very REAL stress that could affect her for a while. I can almost assure you, I could never get her to go on another ocean themed vacation with me again. Me on the other hand, am very at home with the sea. I have been on a boat that was taking on water and very close to rolling over. We had to be rescued from the GOM by another fishing vessel that heard our MAYDAY and was in the vicinity. While was anything but fun, it wasn't overly traumatic for me because what stresses me out is different. On the other hand, flying in airplanes absolutely stress me out. Strong turbulence in the air that others would probably not even notice, make me feel panicky. Where as my wife could sleep through the plane doing loop de loops and only wake up when I nudged her to get off the plane.

 

Am I saying I would sue? Probably not, but, I am not there, it all depends on how I felt my family was affected by the mishap, and if I felt that Carnival could have been negligent in the maintenance of their ship.

 

Am I going to stop cruising on Carnival over this. Nope, looking forward to a cruise on the Magic again in June.

 

I am mostly a bit taken back by people's ignorance about PTSD, and felt the need to comment.

[truecruiser]

I haven't read all the posts but you should know that the Carnival Contract which is routinely enforced prohibits lawsuits except for physical injuries caused by their negligence. In fact a US law had to be passed to insure that if you are physically injured that you would be able to sue(when the ship begins end or stops at a US port). They will have to sue in Miami.

When you go to a cleaner you should read that receipt. Most limit the amount they will have to pay to 10 times the cost of the cleaning.

see

"© Except as provided in Clause 12 (d) below, it is agreed by and between the Guest and Carnival that all disputes and matters whatsoever arising under, in connection with or incident to this Contract or the Guest's cruise, including travel to and from the vessel, shall be litigated, if at all, before the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida in Miami, or as to those lawsuits to which the Federal Courts of the United States lack subject matter jurisdiction, before a court located in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of the Courts of any other county, state or country."

 

and no class actions either.

 

from http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/ticket_contract.aspx

 

Almost all the cases brought by Concordia's passengers have been either thrown out of court.

 

also see

 

http://www.judicialaccountability.org/articles/judge65Msuit.htm

 

The was you're stating this isn't painting the picture accurately. the suits in relation to concordia action were dismissed not because of any limitation on liability clause being upheld, enforced or otherwise litigated. They were dismissed, if at all, because they were filed in the wrong court. FSC for concordia is Genoa, Italy. The doctrine of Forum Non Conveniens didn't even help out US plaintiffs in those cases, unfortunately.

 

You don't have that situation here. The FSC is Fla. If all elements of a suit can be made to lie, it'll have to be filed in US distr. ct, for the So District of Fla. Attorneys have to know what court to file in. An attorney who get his clients cases dismissed because he lacks that basic knowledge shouldn't be practicing litigation, period.

 

Edit: though, i do have to edit to state that in most cases, the case will either be removed to the proper court (if it's here), or dismissed wo prejudice to grant leave to refile in the proper forum.

 

umm, not exactly.

 

CCL will have a Forum Selection Clause (FSC) in its ticket contract. For CCL, this is probably Florida (for it's Costa line, however, it may very well be Italy).

 

Suit can be filed in Fla.

 

Federal Law will govern both any dispute over the FSC, and if the ship is in navigable waters, any suit will also likely be governed by US Federal Admiralty law if the COA contains the required nexus for maritime torts.

[Cristallo]

Here is a little nugget for your "roundtable". Perhaps coping with situations and yes trauma in life is made worse by those constantly telling others that they are a victim of one thing or another, and they need someone enlightened to help them cope with it. People are actually more resilient than you might think, telling people they might have issues sometimes causes the issue. I am not saying tragedies can not cause PSTD, but some self important types want to assign it to everyone that has suffered some inconvienence in life. We all have been shaped by the life we have lived and things we have gone through, some have a need to sit at roundtables and feel they have the answers for others.

 

 

That is pure bs. Would you tell a woman with cancer that the reason she got cancer was because someone told her she might have cancer? I'm so feed up with this idea that that because it's a mental illness that it's some how less important than any other illness.

 

I'm not saying that every person on that ship is or will suffer from PTSD BUT what I am saying is if any of them do suffer from it it's none your right to say otherwise.

 

Ask all yourselves this, if tomorrow morning your best friend/sister/brother came to you and told you they were suffering from say bipolar disorder how you would you react? Now imagine it was MS? If most of you are honest with yourselves you'd treat those cases different.

 

This long thread of it's not "legitimate", "real" or the product of someone who can't deal with "inconveniences" is the reason people don't seek help. I highly recommend some of you people educate yourself before you open your mouths on the subject again.

[cruise_pirate]

No chance I would sue. Infact I think it would be the adventure of a lifetime. I have to imagine the stars are pretty amazing if it is clear at night. I think Carnival is being more than fair:)

[Yvonne]

Have you ever heard of pain and suffering?

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fire-carnival-cruise-ship-strands-4-200-article-1.1261258

 

Pain and suffering from inconveniences like no air conditioning in the staterooms so people have to be in the public areas or on the open decks, few working toilets, etc. What pain? What true suffering? Inconvenience? Yes. Disappointment in the turn of events? Yes. Spoiled vacation? Maybe. But true pain and suffering? Nope.

[Dazed]

I'm going to sue CruiseCritic for letting this go on, get back to work or get a job!!

[sakapfet]

Pain and suffering from inconveniences like no air conditioning in the staterooms so people have to be in the public areas or on the open decks, few working toilets, etc. What pain? What true suffering? Inconvenience? Yes. Disappointment in the turn of events? Yes. Spoiled vacation? Maybe. But true pain and suffering? Nope.

you gotta to be kidding! how do you think the people who are old, handicap or both handling this situation? Oh, i forgot according to your logic, they are just disapointed. Pathetic

[memphiscruiser68]

Okay Folks! Take a good long look at the OP of this thread.. Read some of his postings.... He is not a Carnival Fan, He admits that he and his family stole plzza plates from a ship and love to eat on them at home, and I also saw this on one of his postings..........

 

"Been on about 20 cruises and have never experienced anything close to what you described.

Stay home if you want a perfect world. PG "

 

Consider the source! He is just a "goober" that has nothing better to do that hate on OUR Cruiseline.......... Get a life PG!

[repo-cruiser]

No.

 

What is there to sue about????

 

There was a fire.

Nobody was injured. (thank god)

Nobody is starving.

The cruise line immediately made a generous offer.

 

What am I missing here?

ummm from actual first reports from the ship yes people are starving, yes people have been injured .

[cruise_pirate]

you gotta to be kidding! how do you think the people who are old, handicap or both handling this situation? Oh, i forgot according to your logic, they are just disapointed. Pathetic

 

That is a chance you take when you cruise, or anything else for that matter. Fact of the matter is things happen. Engines break, storms happen, people are run over by busses..:rolleyes:

[repo-cruiser]

Okay Folks! Take a good long look at the OP of this thread.. Read some of his postings.... He is not a Carnival Fan, He admits that he and his family stole plzza plates from a ship and love to eat on them at home, and I also saw this on one of his postings..........

 

"Been on about 20 cruises and have never experienced anything close to what you described.

Stay home if you want a perfect world. PG "

 

Consider the source! He is just a "goober" that has nothing better to do that hate on OUR Cruiseline.......... Get a life PG!

"our cruiseline" huh. You just admitted Carnival can do no wrong, they could push your child overboard and you would say "not Carnivals fault", .Consider the source of Carnival cheerleaders.

[Cristallo]

"our cruiseline" huh. You just admitted Carnival can do no wrong, they could push your child overboard and you would say "not Carnivals fault", .Consider the source of Carnival cheerleaders.

 

Pretty much....little Jimmy has always been so annoying so it's only a little inconvenience that he was pushed over besides he was probably standing in the wrong spot.....being an act of God and all. :rolleyes: